Fastpass return or replacement?

[emilymad]

They opt to bring back traditional FP+ and the numbers go down with Covid, I’ll book another trip minute I can, IF they bring back the shows and other entertainment. Just riding rides got old fast for us.

My family and I were talking about this very thing last night- While a lot of us just worry about lines and fp systems, we think Disney sees what’s happening in Florida and nation wide for that matter and their focus is on staying open. I’d bet most people think the idea that they might have to shut down or scale back is far fetched. I don’t and I don’t think they do either.

What bothers me is just how long Disney can run on the “ just happy to be here” theory. At some point people will get tired of the higher prices, long lines, limited food options, virtually no housekeeping and bare bones experiences. It only took us one trip of 7 days before we said enough is enough. Right now, it hasn’t happened, but it will eventually.

I understand Disney being concerned about another shut down and they want to plan for that. The issue seems to be that they are not planning for the opposite case. We have trip over Thanksgiving. If there is no FP+ in any form I don't know how they plan to deal with the crowds. Or rather Disney has potentially decided to not deal with it. If that is the case there is no way we are going. We did 2 days in February without FP+ and never again.

And if people are canceling their trips in the short term over Covid concerns how many are rescheduling until later in the year to see if things are better? Which just means more crowds and more lines with no way to manage everything.

 

[Craig Larson]

I've seen this statistic stated all over the boards as well (i.e. 80% of the queue is FP+ and 20% is standby) but I've never seen a reliable source behind it. Do you have a reliable source for this stat? I've googled my brains out looking for such a stat and haven't been able to find anything definitive. I'd wager it's not that big of a disparity.

Len Testa believe's it was 75-80%, I would trust he knows what he is talking about.

In the old, free FastPass+ system, Disney would normally allocate 75 to 80% of a ride’s hourly capacity to FastPass+ riders. In practice, that meant that Disney put 3 or 4 people from the FastPass+ line on the ride for every 1 person it took from the Standby Line.

https://touringplans.com/blog/7-ways-your-wait-in-line-at-disney-world-are-about-to-change/

 

[cakebaker]

That's an interesting chart. I think I would still rather have the benefit of FastPass for a few attractions with a very small wait and then wait 20 minutes "more" in a standby line when I needed to. The alternative being wait for a "long" period of time for everything.

The thing is, you can avoid those waits that are supposedly longer by doing secondary rides in the morning when wait times are short, then use FP in the afternoon or evening.
So even if you buy the idea that getting a short wait for Space means you’ll stand in line longer for POTC, that can be avoided by riding POTC in the first few hours of park opening.
It just isn’t an absolute that you will pay for using FP by waiting longer in other lines. It never was for us.

 

[pigletto]

This might seem like a tin foil take at first, but as a Disneyland local, some of the rumors swirling around the replacement of their annual pass program, even days before the Magic Key program was announced, were truly horrible sounding, some of them coming from reputable insiders, and what we ended up with is more or less the same as the annual pass program with the restriction of required reservations. Disney is not above manipulative marketing tactics, and I would not be surprised if they intentionally leak information to not only get a feel for real customer feedback, but also so that when they announce, say, the return of Fastpass+ (3 free fastpasses) with the option of paying for unlimited fastpass or Maxpass or whatever they decide to do, we collectively say "that's not so bad" or "it could have been a lot worse," which is what my reaction to Magic Keys was, and we accept the new changes without much negative feedback, and Disney one way or another extracts more profit from its guests.

Doesn’t sound tinfoil hat at all, at least not to me. It’s a commonly known tactic employed by all levels of government when they have unpopular announcements to make. You can even watch for the patterns in the press once you tune into it. I feel like I’ve seen Disney do this before . The rumours also throw off the bloggers and plankton that make their money off of Disney speculation . I think there’s truth in this somewhere, but nowhere near as bad as being speculated.
I also don’t think it would be strange to suggest sometimes posters on forums show up and plant ideas on behest of corporations. The court of public opinion now exists on the internet , why wouldn’t corps take advantage of that ? Time will tell.

 

[cakebaker]

If there is no FP+ in any form I don't know how they plan to deal with the crowds. Or rather Disney has potentially decided to not deal with it

I think it’s clear that Disney made the choice to simply take whatever hit they have to by not addressing the long line issue. If that was a concern for them, they wouldn’t have allowed the entire summer season to go by without doing something.

Will it cost them guests? Sure, but clearly not enough to change their minds. They could bring FP back today if they wanted to.

 

[vicarrieous]

I think it’s clear that Disney made the choice to simply take whatever hit they have to by not addressing the long line issue. If that was a concern for them, they wouldn’t have allowed the entire summer season to go by without doing something.

Will it cost them guests? Sure, but clearly not enough to change their minds. They could bring FP back today if they wanted to.

I agree with this. If they wanted to do FP+ they would, but they don't. They aren't trying to curb crowds now at all. I also think they have ZERO intention of bringing it back in the interim until a new format rolls out.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

1) Disney feels little-to-no urgency about making g this change quickly. They still fear another partial shutdown, so they are looking a a long-term change in the way they handle visiting guests, one that could be scaleable. While the outside world may see the shutdown and the subsequent crowd restrictions as a chance to make changes, most of that time was spent trying to see not how to change, but how to survive. So any kind of changes discussed for the domestic parks still have a long way to go before they are implemented. She seemed to think the feeling is that because people are still pleased/relieved to be able to go at all, and then the carryover into Orlando’s 50th, guest dissatisfaction with lines is not an issue enough yet.

of course they feel no urgency. People are still going and spending big bucks even with limited offerings and no FP. They don’t need to do anything…..yet.

 

[Sakiki]

I forget how complicated a WDW trip can actually be until I talk with someone who doesn't go often.

For example my neighbor who hasn't been in 20 years was asking me about it recently as they were contemplating going and wanted my advice on where to start and how to get the most out of it. As soon as I got to how FP+ worked and how to maximize it, he already looked to be over the idea, lol.

Whatever they go with would have to remain simple enough for everyone to utilize, as they are going to have to convince a lot of people to actually utilize it.

The thing that we all tend to forget, I think, is that those of us reading and commenting in these forums are a minuscule subset of the total number of people who visit WDW and that most visitors have no knowledge of FPs, ADRs and all that stuff. And they don’t *want* to know; most people simply aren’t interested in planning their vacation in minute detail 6 or 9 months out. Picking your park reservations that far ahead is more than most people want to do!

We came over 3 times between 1997 and 2001, then took a long break because, paying the mortgage and so forth, then came back in November 2016, Apr 2018 and November 2019. In 2016 (and 2018) we stayed offsite, didn’t know about FP and ADR until we bought our park tickets off the WDW website, and after a couple of abortive attempts to book ADRs gave up and ‘winged it’. We waited in standby lines for those rides we deemed essential (not many as we both dislike ‘thrill’ rides) and ate QS at lunch; we didn’t do FP or TS at all (we mostly ate in our villa or went to offsite restaurants if we wanted a meal prepared by someone else). In 2019 we stayed onsite for the first and only time, booked ADRs and FPs as the windows opened and basically allowed Disney to dictate our experiences. We won’t do that again; we felt trammelled where we prefer spontaneity, so we can visit a park on a whim and conversely not visit a park at all if the weather is bad when we get up in the morning.

We’re planning to come back in November 2022 and I’m following all this stuff quite closely. If the majority of what’s been mooted here comes to pass we’ll probably still make the trip but WDW will be off the agenda; central Florida is more than WDW and we haven’t been to Busch Gardens since 1997, Universal since 1999 or Seaworld since 2001. And with a car we can also go up to Homosassa Springs and the Crystal River, over to NASA or down to Alligator Alley and motel it for a night…

It‘s going to be interesting times, that’s for sure…

 

[persnickity]

The site mines the data continually from DW's app

So, this is using the inflated wait times that are posted? Does anyone have a sense of whether they are more inflated this year vs. 2019? It seems like that has been implied, but I'm not clear.

 

[ZeeWP]

[


I think if you typically stay Deluxe, but move down to a moderate or value resort, you may be thinking, I have extra to spend with the money I’m saving.

But I think the bulk of people who typically stay at a value/moderate are just planning a vacation within their budget. They’re not thinking, look at the extra money we have because we didn’t book deluxe.

This. at least for us. We chose CBR even though I know it's supremely unpopular because of the price and Skyliner locations. We could never afford deluxe, and if it weren't for Skyliner, We would probably stay at Pop

(Yes, I know Pop is on the Skyliner too, but the changing Skyliner ride was too much for some people in our group.)

 

[TommyJK]

So, this is using the inflated wait times that are posted? Does anyone have a sense of whether they are more inflated this year vs. 2019? It seems like that has been implied, but I'm not clear.

I mean potentially that is true as well. If the times right now are more inflated above actual wait time than in the past then it would point to an even bigger disparity on the effect FP+ had on Standby waits.

 

[Cabius]

But regardless, what percentage of the FPs are people who are on their 2nd, 3rd or more re-ride of the ultra top headliners because they were pounding the app to re-snag another FP+ ? That's another detriment to the standby visitor just trying to get on it because they couldn't secure an FP themselves.

TBH I'm surprised they don't cap the number of FPs a guest can get within a time period, so that at least for top-tier attractions you can't get another FP+ within e.g. 7 days.

If the most in-the-know guests snag RotR boarding groups 4 days in a 7-day trip that's great for us, but that's also 3 more guests who don't get a chance to ride. Ditto FPs for 7DMT, etc.

As one of the über-planner savvy guests, I would still rather be limited in my ability to get BGs/FPs for top-tier attractions repeatedly in order to improve overall availability.

 

[persnickity]

I mean potentially that is true as well. If the times right now are more inflated above actual wait time than in the past then it would point to an even bigger disparity on the effect FP+ had on Standby waits.

Ah, gotcha. I had to actually do the math to see that, I'm kind of directionally challenged.

 

[JakeAZ]

Read the TP blog post today about the 7 possible changes.

7....

The average guest didn't understand how FP advanced booking worked. Now they want to make 7 changes?

Also, if they implement that type of ala carte paid option, there is going to be SO MUCH buyers remorse. "I can't believe I just paid $80 for my family of 4 to get on POTC" In addition to our flights, hotel, tickets, meals, etc....

Disney is going to play on emotions and people are going to get sick of it really quick. "Want to stop your kids from whining? Here is a $25pp super duper instant ride pass for SDMT" Fast forward 10 minutes later (and $100 lighter) and the kids are whining again!

 

[NJlauren]

Honestly if I do the math out for 6/7 guest I might as well get a one day VIP, ride everything we want and then spend a week eating, seeing shows, going to the pool and universal.

 

[JoJoGirl]

Also, if they implement that type of ala carte paid option, there is going to be SO MUCH buyers remorse. "I can't believe I just paid $80 for my family of 4 to get on POTC" In addition to our flights, hotel, tickets, meals, etc....!

Yep, the constant ping, ping, pinging of the wallet, reminding guests several more times each day just how bleeping much this trip is costing them …

At least with FP+ and Disney Dining Plan, the cost could be buried in the back of your mind. This new way will be forcing it to the front with maddening regularity. I can just imagine my own dad working a slow burn having to endure this. What a fun killer.

 

[ZeeWP]

Maybe this is just ME, but outside of these boards, how many times has someone's upcoming Disney World vacation come up in a casual conversation and you ask about what ADRs they have planned or FP booking and the person looks at you like "Huh?" And when you try to explain it, their eyes sort of glaze over? Or they say something like "I don't know about that really, I think my travel agent might be taking care of that, not sure..." I mean, I have frequently come across people who say "Disney World...is that the one in Florida or California?" I live in a major metropolitan area in the NE, where lots of families have traveled to Europe and frequent the Caribbean & Cruises, so this is not people who are inexperienced planning trips. They just aren't likely to accept a theme park trip with their little ones to be over complicated.

Or how many times have you been in the parks when people walk up to one of the hardest to get table service restaurants and seem surprised there are 0 openings for the day? Or, they walk up to BBB with their little one in tow hoping to walk in without a reservation for a make-over? Or, when there was FP+, how many times did you hear someone mumble something like "must be nice to be rich enough to be able to walk to the front of the line."

I guess my point is, the multi-tiered system that is rumored seems way to complicated for the vast majority of people I have come across IRL to be able to deal with.

Haha, this is precisely why my 8 person crew left all the planning to me. They want nothing to do with it. Just point at them where to go, haha.

 

[PanchoX1]

hmm... I would think, that if Disney is concerned about another shut down, they would roll back capacity. Prob can't do much about the next month or two other than to not increase it any more, but for the days that haven't been open to reservations yet, they can totally scale those back. but the don't seem to worried about a shut down to do that.

 

[Mutant]

Someone else posted about this saying they don't want your FP to be back to back to back. Say your
done by noon and leave to spend rest of day at pool. They want them spread out so to deter you from
leaving. In other words when you are not riding you are spending money or eating.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I spend more sitting by the pool than I would wandering around the park. The rum dole whips by the Poly pool really add up. Disney wants me to please and go to the pool.

 

[Turksmom]

Yep, the constant ping, ping, pinging of the wallet, reminding guests several more times each day just how bleeping much this trip is costing them …

At least with FP+ and Disney Dining Plan, the cost could be buried in the back of your mind. This new way will be forcing it to the front with maddening regularity. I can just imagine my own dad working a slow burn having to endure this. What a fun killer.

As the person who walks through my house turning off light switches and telling people to eat leftovers for lunch, I would definitely be stressed. I don't want to keep track of how many rides each kid picked and how much they cost to try to make it "fair" while I'm on vacation. It's going to be,
" One lightning pass each and then Mom's going to order a beer by the pool because I am not spending my vacation doing math!"