Fastpass+ is cramping my style

[momof2n2]

Does anyone really care about hard data when they are on vacation? When my family has spent $5000 on a vacation, all I care about is my vacation and if my family finds value in visiting WDW.

 

[mom2rtk]

LOL, this is a great observation and the saddest part of the whole FP+ situation. Disney is "right sizing" staff and attraction capacity, so everyone can experience a Level 7 day even when the park crowds are at a level 3.

BINGO! People have asked over and over how Disney ever expected MM+ to pay for itself. I think this is the biggest piece of that answer.

If they lose a few of us along the way, they don't care. They expect to be saving enough overhead to cover it. I think that ties into the FP shortages in September, traditionally one of the slowest times to visit WDW.

 

[JoshuaShaw]

• The impact on the less popular attractions is greater because a) they didn't have Legacy FP (true enough), and b) FP+ encourages the people slow to sign up to book FP+ for them. Unclear, because we don't know how many people don't use all their FP+ slots, nor do we know what they would have done under legacy FP. Spent more time in the SB lines for the popular stuff? Maybe. Gotten in line ahead of you at Imagination because the TT line was too long? Maybe. It's certainly a theory worth analyzing, but I don't think there's enough data to be conclusive about it.

"Typically didn't have long lines" =/= less popular

The Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean are two of the most popular attractions on the premises. The reason they generally lacked lines longer than 15 minutes is because they were efficient loaders and have a high rider capacity. Sure, the people who get a FP+ for these will still have a shorter wait, but before FP+ was introduced everyone had a shorter wait on these. In instances of these, FP+ is solving a problem that didn't exist. And, there arewere considerably more shorter line attractions than longer lines, making FP+ that much more unnecessary.

Let's say that for every five short-line attractions, there's one long-line attraction. If, prior to FP+ (or Frozen, allegedly) you average 10 minute waits for the short-lines and a 70 minute wait for the long-line, you're looking at two hours of time spent in line. Now, with the introduction of FP+ let's average 30 minutes for the shorter lines and 55 minutes for the long-line (based on the considerable lengthening of some and the mild shortening of others, as documented by easywdw), that works out to nearly three and a half hours in line.

• FP+ breaks the rope drop strategy because a 9am FP encourages more people to show up at rope drop time without exploiting the rope drop strategy. In other words, legacy gave the rope droppers about 45 minutes to ride quickly before their first FP kicked in, while FP+ takes that away because the times start at 9am. Even if I accept that analysis as correct, and it may well be, I'm still not sure I want to criticize a change that only impacts the small percentage of people who show up for RD. I get how that can really bother the many people here who are inveterate rope droppers, and it's reasonable to be upset over it - but don't expect non-rope-droppers to have a huge amount of sympathy.

Then how come, to combat the tiering of attractions, guests who tend to be pro-FP+ advocate showing up for rope drop to accomplish riding things with minimal waits? Either FP+ eliminates the need for rope drop or it doesn't, but it can't do both.

 

[socrateze]

BINGO! People have asked over and over how Disney ever expected MM+ to pay for itself. I think this is the biggest piece of that answer.

If they lose a few of us along the way, they don't care. They expect to be saving enough overhead to cover it. I think that ties into the FP shortages in September, traditionally one of the slowest times to visit WDW.

That's what I was thinking about September. Disney has decided to cut back on their personnel so there are fewer FP+ available. There is going to be no advantage to visiting parks at a slower time.

 

[DoingDisney]

You are attributing the longer lines on a few rides to the advent of FP. You are dismissing the heavier crowds that started at the same time because of the Frozen craziness. WDW in general is far more crowded; of course there are going to be longer lines.

Actually people are comparing crowds year over year with the impact of FP+ ... WDW is NOT "far more crowded" than it used to be.

 

[DoingDisney]

So I took a look at this, and what it boils down to is this:

• People who don't use FP will wait longer because of people who do. No foolin. In other words, he leaves out the part where instead of waiting 45 min for Splash Mountain and 45 min for Space Mountain, people who could only get FP+ for Splash Mountain are now waiting 5 minutes for Splash Mountain and 60 minutes for Space Mountain. I'm making these number up because he didn't do that part of the analysis - which is my point. Not that he's wrong, but that we don't know because the analysis doesn't take into account that the poor people on the SB lines may have gotten FP/FP+ for different attractions.

But I used to get FP for both of them and wait only a couple mins for each ? Just like I used to FP Soarin and TT ?

 

[momof2n2]

But I used to get FP for both of them and wait only a couple mins for each ? Just like I used to FP Soarin and TT ?

This is exactly it. With FP we'd not wait for either ride... Now - if we get FP+ for both (likely not as we'll be trying for 7D and A/E) we could STILL end up really waiting as reports keep coming that even the FP+ return lines have heft to them.

 

[rucifee]

This is exactly it. With FP we'd not wait for either ride... Now - if we get FP+ for both (likely not as we'll be trying for 7D and A/E) we could STILL end up really waiting as reports keep coming that even the FP+ return lines have heft to them.

I stood in a TSMM FP+ line for almost 30 minutes one evening. The line was to the entrance when my party and I went through the first MB checkpoint.

 

[itchin2go]

People who don't use FP will wait longer because of people who do. No foolin. In other words, he leaves out the part where instead of waiting 45 min for Splash Mountain and 45 min for Space Mountain, people who could only get FP+ for Splash Mountain are now waiting 5 minutes for Splash Mountain and 60 minutes for Space Mountain. I'm making these number up because he didn't do that part of the analysis - which is my point. Not that he's wrong, but that we don't know because the analysis doesn't take into account that the poor people on the SB lines may have gotten FP/FP+ for different attractions.

You lost me right here .... and this is why:

But I used to get FP for both of them and wait only a couple mins for each ? Just like I used to FP Soarin and TT ?

2 things: How many rides are you riding? Yes, lines are short(er) for 3 rides, but they're longer for most everything else. If your desired ride number is close to 3, that could look like a win, but the higher your number goes up, the less likely you've netted something positive.

Second, the above is compared to a no FP system. Compare it to FP-, when people could pull a FP for all of the FP eligible rides. All of those lines were short(er). Not just 3 of them. And so now, they only get 3 short lines, but all of the other lines are longer than they used to be. There's no way this is a net win.

 

[Planogirl]

I'm sitting here looking at MK wait times right now and they are pretty long. HM is at 40 minutes and so is Buzz, Dumbo, Pooh and the Speedway. More top tier rides are even worse. Of course it is summer but a weekday after all. I don't have raw data but these numbers look this bleak whenever I check them.

 

[GaryDis]

But I used to get FP for both of them and wait only a couple mins for each ? Just like I used to FP Soarin and TT ?

That's good info to add. Perhaps I didn't do a good job of explaining myself, but my point was that he left out this side of the story from the analysis, not that the conclusion was necessarily wrong.

You lost me right here .... and this is why:
...
Second, the above is compared to a no FP system.

That was part of my point. The first substantive paragraph in the article I was analyzing, the one beginning "The biggest change is ...", although purporting to be about FP+ vs FP was really about FP/FP+ versus no FP. In other words, you can take that paragraph, cross off the + in FP+ everyone it gets used, and the analysis doesn't change.

 

[DougEMG]

First we never showed up for rope drop. When we did arrive around 10-11 I'd pull a FP and then go do a secondary ride like HM or PotC or go shopping in a store, then go do the FP and start the process all over again. Now with FP+ while I've got 3 rides set aside, the lines at everything else are so long that I have no interest in waiting that long for a ride.

On our last couple of trips we've ended up doing 3 rides, walking around a little and then leaving. So we're spending less time and less money in the parks then before.

About the only useful thing that FP+ does is let us sleep in as late as we want to.

 

[DoingDisney]

First we never showed up for rope drop. When we did arrive around 10-11 I'd pull a FP and then go do a secondary ride like HM or PotC or go shopping in a store, then go do the FP and start the process all over again. Now with FP+ while I've got 3 rides set aside, the lines at everything else are so long that I have no interest in waiting that long for a ride.

On our last couple of trips we've ended up doing 3 rides, walking around a little and then leaving. So we're spending less time and less money in the parks then before.

About the only useful thing that FP+ does is let us sleep in as late as we want to.

PREACH !!!!

CHURCH !!!!

 

[3DisneyFanz]

First we never showed up for rope drop. When we did arrive around 10-11 I'd pull a FP and then go do a secondary ride like HM or PotC or go shopping in a store, then go do the FP and start the process all over again. Now with FP+ while I've got 3 rides set aside, the lines at everything else are so long that I have no interest in waiting that long for a ride.

On our last couple of trips we've ended up doing 3 rides, walking around a little and then leaving. So we're spending less time and less money in the parks then before.

About the only useful thing that FP+ does is let us sleep in as late as we want to.

Are you leaving the property or just spending money somewhere else like Downtown Disney? I really think the big push for them is to get your $100 for three rides then have you go somewhere else on property to spend more money again rather than wasting time in the parks riding rides.

 

[bcrook]

Are you leaving the property or just spending money somewhere else like Downtown Disney? I really think the big push for them is to get your $100 for three rides then have you go somewhere else on property to spend more money again rather than wasting time in the parks riding rides.

What I found myself doing, and maybe others too was going in later doing my three rides and then waiting for the night time shows. A lot of down time.

People were piled in DHS waiting for Fantasmic and Frozen fireworks. Nearly all the rides were closed at 8:30. At MK the hub was jammed. At DAK I was only in for a short time both visits. The park was empty except for the mysteriously long standby line at Dinosaur.

Dinosaur was weird. I sat there for about an hour watching the lines at around 3:00 on July 7. Hardly anybody went in the standby. It never reached outside of the circular room with the dinosaur. I wandered in and out a few times to see. Yet, the standby time stayed at an hour. The FP line was always longer. It took about 15 minutes to ride via FP+ line. I did notice that streams of people would arrive through FP+ at their appointment time. The large tour groups came in at regular intervals.

So I'm thinking at DAK which is underutilized as for as FP goes, Dinosaur must be the one thrill ride that everyone can go on. Everest may be too exciting and Kali is too wet.

On my trip Dinosaur seemed like an appointment ride experience. Nearly everyone using it was through FP and very few entered on standby.

So that's what I did with my spare time. Watch lines. It is an improvement on watching paint dry. Sometimes I wandered over to see the Siamangs. I didn't spend anymore money though...

 

[mom2rtk]

What I found myself doing, and maybe others too was going in later doing my three rides and then waiting for the night time shows. A lot of down time.

Isn't it funny that you would mention that right as they are testing ways to get people to not do that very thing (with the Fantasmic test)?

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Isn't it funny that you would mention that right as they are testing ways to get people to not do that very thing (with the Fantasmic test)?

I think that's exactly why they're doing that test. We were told that a number of people reserved Fantasmic and then they know the park tickets were used in AK with no FP+ there. People were leaving AK at closing and heading to HS just for the show which caused an issue with the people who were in HS all day. The bigger issue for them is they were having to hold people in sb and then a number of people who had FP for Fantasmic didn't show up.

 

[larryz]

One way to alleviate the frustration is to make believe there is no such thing as FastPass and plan on getting in the regular line for any ride/attraction you'd like to enjoy.

Isn't that merely swapping planning frustration for standing-in-line frustration?

 

[DougEMG]

Are you leaving the property or just spending money somewhere else like Downtown Disney? I really think the big push for them is to get your $100 for three rides then have you go somewhere else on property to spend more money again rather than wasting time in the parks riding rides.

If we have a car we'll leave and go to an outlet mall, otherwise we'll go hang out at the resort/pool.

We actually end up spending less money since we aren't in the park.

 

[LOL!]

I think that's exactly why they're doing that test. We were told that a number of people reserved Fantasmic and then they know the park tickets were used in AK with no FP+ there. People were leaving AK at closing and heading to HS just for the show which caused an issue with the people who were in HS all day. The bigger issue for them is they were having to hold people in sb and then a number of people who had FP for Fantasmic didn't show up.

That's starting to make sense. Must be quite the challenge for WDW. Like squeezing Jello in your hand. Where's it going to come out?