FastPass Good or Bad? (Split from DL FastPass Thread)

[dcentity2000]

I take the view that the occasional fastpass is nice but not if every ride can be accessed via the system - at that point it starts to feel like I'm standing at Clapham Junction, waiting for the 17:09 South Central Trains Service To Barnes...

Either that or shopping. Queing is half the fun after all - don't know why



Rich::

 

[Peter Pirate]

dcentity2000, I absolutely DO NOT find "Queing half the fun" and I trust you were funin'...But if you were serious I will counter that with the fact that long lines will be the first thing to make me not renew my annual passes. Perhaps Disney is saying they are less concerned about us (APer's) than they have been previously but I guarantee that if they take away the option of seeeing the parks (and the attractions) leisurely (without queing) many of us will be gone.

 

[dcentity2000]

But I really think it is Pirate, so long as it's not too long or a regular feature

What I mean is, if you were able to just jump on rides any old how you wouldn't cherish the experience so much as if you had had to wait for it or plan in order to miss the longest ques. The rides should be a bit like a reward?

Do I sound mad? I guess I do... I think what I'm getting at isthe moralistic doctrine of "all things in moderation"

I too would be fed up if fastpass disappeared and long lines became common stock - but the alternative, where each ride becomes less of a time consumer and more of a whirlwind visit, is almost as bad for me.

One more attempt at making a clear point: I HATE the inevitability of waiting and I HATE the inevitability of having each ride last under 10 minutes. I love to walk straight in - but I love it even more if the treat wasn't inevitable



Rich::

 

[DisneyKidds]

And it creates very long lines in rides that very rarely had that problem before fastpass.

Not so sure that I agree, Herr Baron. Your selection of the Land as an example is very subjective and completely contrived. Hope that isn't too obtuse for ya .

There are a number of factors that have affected the Land, so let's look at another ride: Splash Mountian.

Based on my general experiences - Worst line during peak times prior to FP - about 120 minutes. Worst line at peak times post FP - oh, about 120 minutes. And in my experience, the overall amount of time the line spends in "worst case" scenario is less than it was pre FP. FP hasn't really changed the overall complexion of the lines in worst case scenario, but it has changed the distribution of the people. Perhaps it is that distribution we should be talking about, and how good or bad it is.

You are correct in stating that FP doesn't change the overall capacity. The same number of people can still experience the ride. You will have a controlled number of FP people, and then you have the standbys. So in our 120 minute line example, you will just have fewer standby people in that line that eats up two hours of your day. The rest of the capacity is consumed by those FP people. It would be interesting to know, on any given day, how many riders of Splash Mountain are FP versus standby riders, and furthermore - if you added the amount of total time each guest spent in the standby line and compared it to how much time all riders spent in line pre FP, it would be interesting to see which scenario resulted in less time in line. I think the scenario that results in less overall time in line for a given attraction is the best one, regardless of how people are spending the time saved, be it in another line or shopping. While I'd love to see more rides, I don't have a problem with Disney trying to manage capacity as a way of addressing line issues.

Hey, from a personal POV I think FP is great because we know it's benefits AND it 's detriments and can use it to our advantage. However, I agree that we should look at things on the whole and not from a subjective personal POV. I also prefer to leave motives out of it. Too much speculation and too much weight often put on them. I happen to think that FP is a good system overall, even if there are things I don't like about it at times. Heck, Pirates rethinking of his DL trip is a perfect example. FP is seen as a benefit by guests. Maybe they have been duped, maybe not - but bottom line is that it helps to attract guests AND it allows them to utilize their time more efficiently, if they choose to use it. Granted, not all people use it and I haven't quite figured out why.

On the whole, when you consider all Splash Mountian riders in a day and add the total queue time, which system had less waiting? I think it is with the FP system, but that is just my speculation. If that speculation is correct, I don't see how FP could be viewed as a bad thing on the whole.

 

[KNWVIKING]

Baron & others have speculated about the ulterior motives behind FP. Maybe ME and the bean counters contrived FP for all the wrong reasons, ( fact or fiction,I have no idea). If it is true, then obviously it does not fit the philosophy that Baron cherish's.

Now what I'm asking is: If it was absolutely true that there were no ulterior motives,no means to increase spending, limit a customer to 4 attractions per day,etc..... if it's only intended plan was an honest attempt to reduce wait times & increase customer satisfaction...... what would your opinion of FP be ?

Because that's where I'm at with FP. I experienced FP prior to finding these boards. I knew nothing of the philosophy, WWWD, ME, cutbacks,ABC.... nothing. I was simply a guest in WDW who loved the parks and thought FP was a great idea. I understood how it worked, I used it to my advantage and never once considered it evil.

So, if you can put all the garbage we discuss here out of your mind for a moment, what do you think about FP?

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

So! You want short, simple and to the point, eh?

OK!!

So, if you can put all the garbage we discuss here out of your mind for a moment, what do you think about FP?

I've never had any of the baggage you told us to get rid of. (well, to be fair, I consider them side issues. Yes they should build more AND close less in order to correct overcrowding, but that (and the reasons behind them implimenting it in the first place) are just a side issues.)

The main thrust, for me, is that it SEVERELY limits options! It forces you to tour Disney one way - or the consequenses and the punishments are extreme. It plays right into their current philosophy of "guests=cattle". And they have to be herded in large groups to get a payback or make things profitable!! Hence: shorter hours, fastpass, e-ticket, closing on an event, stores and areas closing early, etc, etc, etc!!!

And that just plain stinks!!

 

[KNWVIKING]

Ok, let's drop this part from the equation.......

***"It plays right into their current philosophy of "guests=cattle".***

And concentrate on this statement:

***"The main thrust, for me, is that it SEVERELY limits options! It forces you to tour Disney one way - or the consequenses and the punishments are extreme. "***

Explain to me how FP negatively affects your normal day in MK. What are you being forced to do and how are the punishments extreme ?

Because if we can ignore the ulterior motives debate and just take FP at its simplistic face value, I don't understand how it can negatively impact my visit.

PS: My "garbage" reference was not specific to this thread, rather a blanket statement to describe the usual Car 1-2-3 debates. No offense was intended.

 

[Peter Pirate]

I'm with you Vike (although thats bound to hurt my credibility is some circles...No wait, I have no credibiity in those circles)...

FP cannot possibly negatively affect anyone other that the irritation you feel when someone walks by you with a FP...Hey, even we FP users and proponents still get that feeling...But truth be told touring the Parks is much easier and far MORE flexible having a tool like FP at your disposal. With FP, no matter how crowded, you are assured to be able to ride at least a couple of your faves while knowing you'll be standing for the others, but without FP you may be able to count on a 120 minute wait for Space and Splash Mountains, and seriously, how much more waiting will you want to do for other rides after that?

 

[crusader]

Baron how can you speak of forced touring schemes today, having experienced the ticket book era. Talk about Disney limiting our options.

Of course one could always opt to ride If You Had Wings as often as we pleased since that was one of the very few attractions with no ticket requirement.

Other than that, we weren't given much choice without having to pay more.

Now, I hope you will consider helping me understand this one......

It plays right into their current philosophy of "guests=cattle". And they have to be herded in large groups to get a payback or make things profitable!! Hence: shorter hours, fastpass, e-ticket, closing on an event, stores and areas closing early, etc, etc, etc!!!

I get the paycheck reference with respect to the cutbacks, but I'm lost on the cattle herding profitability technique here.

 

[dcentity2000]

Fastpass limits options as you are impelled to be in a specific place within a specific time period. This make you feel a little bit herded as there is less spontenaity about the whole experience... at least for me. That's why, although I love the occasional fastpass, I couldn't hack it being everywhere.

I think what baron meant by the stores and so on was that getting guests quickly in and out of rides meant more time for shopping - or so they hope...

Same as I can't hack my poor spelling



Rich::

 

[KNWVIKING]

***"Fastpass limits options as you are impelled to be in a specific place within a specific time period."***

I don't know...... That's sorta like saying a PS at Cal Grill is a bad thing because you're "impelled to be in a specific place within a specific time period". Show times require you to be at a certain place at a certain time. So do parades and fireworks.

***"That's why, although I love the occasional fastpass, I couldn't hack it being everywhere."***

Well, it's not everywhere and you obviously use FP to your best advantage.

 

[JKanownik]

Originally posted by dcentity2000
Fastpass limits options as you are impelled to be in a specific place within a specific time period. This make you feel a little bit herded as there is less spontenaity about the whole experience... at least for me. That's why, although I love the occasional fastpass, I couldn't hack it being everywhere.

This is true in principle, but not in practice. I've yet to experience a case where someone was not allowed to use a FP at any time past the start time. A 10:00 AM - 11:00 AM FP is actually a 10:00 AM - 10:00 PM FP.

And I fail to see how walking around freely with a FP makes you feel more like cattle than standing in a tight line surrounded by hundreds of people.

-Josh

 

[tjkraz]

Originally posted by JKanownik
And I fail to see how walking around freely with a FP makes you feel more like cattle than standing in a tight line surrounded by hundreds of people.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Wow, this is the first time I've seen this concept....

getting guests quickly in and out of rides

.......alluded to as a bad thing .

Really, I don't care what Disney "hoped" people would do with the time...........the fact remains the time is there, more often than not. To shop (that isn't even a bad thing), eat (another good thing), sit on a bench, wait for a different ride, etc., etc. Please tell me how any of that can be viewed as a negatve as I just don't see it.

There are only two negatives I see with FP. One is the effect it has on those who don't use it. However, more often than not that is their choice. The second, which I have mentioned before, is that under the FP system the standby lines late in the day are much longer than they used to be. However, you have to take the good with the bad. So, as Viking has said, if you clear your mind of the animosity associated with the perceived motives behind the system, tell me how it is an overall negative. I really think it gives me MORE options.

Pre FP Scenario:

Hmmm.....what do you want to ride? Splash Mountain. OK. Wow, it has a 90 minute line. Oh, well...well wait. Wait, wait, wait......while doing nothing.

Post FP Scenario:

Hmmm.....what do you want to ride? Splash Mountain. OK. Standby is 90 minutes, but we can get a FP and come back in two hours. Let's get a FP. Now what do you want to do? I want to get something to eat. I want to go on Barnstormer. I have to go to the bathroom. I want to go to the Emporioum to get that snowglobe. Hey, I'm tired, I'm just gonna sit on this bench and watch the train go by. What the hey, hey, hey *....... let's do ALL of those things, ain't it nice to have that option?

* Name the Disney ride reference.

 

[DancingBear]

If any crowd management technique has an element of "herding" people in it, then we've always been herded by the Disney people. It was Walt that espoused the theory of the "weenie" to draw the crowds to certain areas.

 

[Peter Pirate]

DB, you may have did it now! Wagging a finger of non-altruistc, big business gamesmanship in Walt's direction could cause some around here to have heart failure.

Uh, eh...I agree, btw...

 

[Mickmse2002]

Disney has a very long history of crowd management, they are very good at it. I fail to see the harm in FP. I couldn't imagine being in the parks without FP now that we have had it. I absolutely refuse to stand in a cattle shoot for two hours to ride on any attraction. But if I can FP the same thing and breeze right through then I can ride it. I find it funny that people think it limits their flexibility in enjoying the parks. I think it offers you more flexibilty. I get a kick out of the people running from attraction to attraction with the WDW Unofficial guide in hand trying to beat the system. FP allows that to happen in a less frantic and chaotic mode.

 

[dcentity2000]

I think the herded cattle thing comes into play when you have too many fastpasses - when that happens, your day has been planned out to a large extent, much like a cow's. One, two or three tickets don't have the same effect and I find rather useful and enjoyable to have



Rich::

 

[barreloflaughs]

More grist fer da mill from Lutz-land:
http://www.miceage.com/kevinyee/ky072104a.htm

I've never experienced FastPass myself but gimme a couple of weeks and I'm sure I'll form an opinion one way or the other.

carl
barrel of

 

[BRERALEX]

Some of my fondest memories growing up are of being on line with my father and talking and comlpaining about being on line. And I sometimes miss the lines cause there is no build up to the ride, there is no examining of the subtilties. So SOMETIMES yeah i miss being on line with the fam not just running throught the cue. the whole point is the fam anyway not the ride. So for the first time i think EVER i agree with dcentity2000. queing can be a bonding experience plus half the time where are we rushing to anyways?

I think there was no HIDDEN motive behind fastpass. If you stayed on site they blatantly told you now with fastpass you have more time to do other things and then the dudes 5 identical bro's would be holding a ballon or an ice cream or a toy. I mean there was nothing hidden there they wanted you off line to shop. very simple. It was a surprise to many that not only did people not shop more they crowded the parks too much.