Fastpass Enforcement coming?

[Reddog1134]

Without quoting all the of the points that have been made about "class system" or "have/have nots" I still feel that people shouldn't have an issue with additional benefits being offered to people and being used by those lucky enough to have the means to.

It's no different than an airplane. If I spend the money to fly first class, I would expect to have the benefits of that (roomier seats, food, drinks or whatever). I never see anyone getting angry or taking issue with this.

When we get to the X-Pass system people don't have to use it. But if they don't it's not fair to the people who do spend the money to looked at as having an unfair advantage over everyone else.

I agree. If I can afford it and I find value in it, I will pay for an extra service. That doesn't mean others won't resent me for it.

Several DIS members have said they've heard people in the standby line say "Must be nice to have money" when someone walked by in the Fastpass line. Even though FP is free, the person was unaware of this and had resentment towards the person they perceived as "rich".

 

[Reddog1134]

But why paying for something creates class system, I do not get it. Do we have to get rid of BMW because not everyone can or want afford it? However idea of giving perks based on resort category is in fact class system, because it is pretty much sais if I am fancy and rich enough to pay for Deluxe, I deserve special treatment in other, non resort related areas. I think the fact that I am free to pay for special service regardless of category of resort eliminates classes idea and therefore DL Paris pass is classless.

But seriously, whether you're paying more money for a hotel room to get the perks or paying more money directly for the perk itself, you're still paying more money. Which some people can perceive as a class system. Those that can afford X and those that cannot afford X.

 

[KellifromCanada]

I'm not sure that one is valid. Right now there's no deadline factor with FPs so people are criss-crossing the parks at a fairly leisurely pace as they collect and later use their FPs, which allows time for browsing shops and indulging collecting hobbies like pins and vinylmation. If you have somewhere to be at a certain time you're less likely to stop in just to browse.

I picked up Test Track FPs around 1pm last week with a 3:40 return time; we used them around 7. In the meantime we ate at Le Cellier, rode Figment and spent some time playing in the post show (and buying my youngest a stuffed Figment, and accidentally starting her obsession with trading for Figment pins), met Alice and bought some tea in the UK, did a Kim Possible mission in France, got a henna tattoo in Morocco, spent way more than I intended in Japan, ate kaki-gori, bought caramels in Germany, enjoyed a glass of rosa regale in Italy, picked up a pair of earrings in Mexico, pressed pennies in every country, etc. That's a lot more money spent than if we had to drop everything an hour or two into the World Showcase to rush back to Test Track to use a FP on time!

I just want to say, WOW, that sounds like an awesome couple of hours!

 

[Princess Sleepy]

It seems to me that the problem is that privileges that were once available to all, are now only available to those willing/able to pay and that giving the FPs to those paying, you obviously take them away from those who can't pay.

If you are staying in a Deluxe resort now, you get easy access to the park, nicer accommodations, better pools, etc. However, none of those things negatively impact people staying off-site or at a value; they just make things nicer for you. But if those people now are given x number of FPs in the parks, those are no longer available for those staying at the less expensive options, thereby affecting them negatively. I seriously doubt Disney is planning to lower their gate prices for those who can no longer access FPs for free. It's like paying the same amount for a 10 oz. box of cereal that you used to pay for 12 oz. They just hope most people won't notice the difference.

 

[Alesia]

But why paying for something creates class system, I do not get it. Do we have to get rid of BMW because not everyone can or want afford it? However idea of giving perks based on resort category is in fact class system, because it is pretty much sais if I am fancy and rich enough to pay for Deluxe, I deserve special treatment in other, non resort related areas. I think the fact that I am free to pay for special service regardless of category of resort eliminates classes idea and therefore DL Paris pass is classless.

I was just explaining, not necessarily defending.

I think the issue is taking something that is now free and equally available to everyone and deciding to start charging for it. That sort of thing will always lead to a feeling of unfairness.

Using your example, assume that for years BMW has always given away it's cars for free - Everyone has the ability to have one, they just have to be willing to get up reasonably early in the morning. Some people would rather sleep in and drive a Ford Focus, but they do have the option of obtaining a BMW with minimal effort if they choose. Now think if BMW changed their minds and decided to start charging for them. Now only the wealthier people would be able to afford them. Do you really think that the less wealthy people wouldn't feel like they're now being discriminated against?

Honestly, no one here has any idea what (if anything) is going to happen with fastpass. Getting worked up about it is pretty ridiculous if you ask me. For now, I'll remain in the "I'll believe it when I see it" camp.

 

[k^2]

But why paying for something creates class system, I do not get it. Do we have to get rid of BMW because not everyone can or want afford it? However idea of giving perks based on resort category is in fact class system, because it is pretty much sais if I am fancy and rich enough to pay for Deluxe, I deserve special treatment in other, non resort related areas. I think the fact that I am free to pay for special service regardless of category of resort eliminates classes idea and therefore DL Paris pass is classless.

By definition, paying for additional perks creates a class system. It creates a system where some people "have" and some people "have not". This is not necessarily a negative. It is a part of the American capitalist society. However, I think some of the umbrage is taken because (I'm pretty sure) Walt was always of the mindset that he wanted everyone to be able to enjoy his parks, regardless of how much money they had. The more the modern Disney corporation creates the perks, the further we get from Walt's original vision... and that's sad.

ETA: I feel like I heard that somewhere (about Walt's philosophy) but I don't have a source, and yes, they did have the A-E Tickets, which can be considered a "class system", so maybe I'm totally wrong Regardless, in recent years, Disney has stuck to a more egalitarian point of view, and the proposed changes would definitely be a shift.

 

[Colleen27]

All these things are the perks you enjoying for coughing up that extra dough.

Your park tickets and resort fees pay for your access. If some one has the ability to pay more for faster access and as long as you have equal opportunity to get that same faster access, then it's all good. If you can't afford it or don't think it's worth it, is not the fault of Disney.

And yes, some hotels do have special elevators for their primo guest. as long as the non primo guest have an elevator that allows them equal access to their floor, I really don't have any problems.

If disney wants to offer fp for their on site guest only, than offsite guest will have to decide whether the fp is worth the cost of moving onsite.

This is all hypothetical of course.

I think the difference, at least in my mind, is that right now you get the resort experience you pay for and the parks experience you pay for. I don't like the idea of the resort experience you pay for determining what sort of park experience you get, and that seems to be the general gist of the XPass rumors - that if you want the best park experience, not only will you pay the premium price for Disney tickets, you'll also have to pay $400+/night for what is objectively a 3 or 3.5 star resort at best.

We're all paying the same premium prices to get through the gate, and where we're laying our heads shouldn't determine what we get for that money. We all know that those of us who can't or won't shell out deluxe room rates aren't going to get any break on our ticket prices. We'll just get less enjoyment for our money in the form of longer waits for rides (and very possibly characters, if the FP-for-characters trend expands and/or the XPass/RFID based enhanced interaction comes to pass).

 

[KellyNY]

[/B]



But seriously, whether you're paying more money for a hotel room to get the perks or paying more money directly for the perk itself, you're still paying more money. Which some people can perceive as a class system. Those that can afford X and those that cannot afford X.

Not same at all. Many stay at Deluxes regardless, just because they like it and many stay in particular resort just because they like it. I do not want CL at Poly only to have better experience in parks, I prefer CBR and ability to pay for whatever extras I want. I am not given base ticket in value, hopper at moderate and water parks in deluxes, I can choose and build my vacation as I want it. I am all for paid extras but I want to choose what I pay for.

 

[MrToad_at_BLT]

It seems to me that the problem is that privileges that were once available to all, are now only available to those willing/able to pay and that giving the FPs to those paying, you obviously take them away from those who can't pay.

If you are staying in a Deluxe resort now, you get easy access to the park, nicer accommodations, better pools, etc. However, none of those things negatively impact people staying off-site or at a value; they just make things nicer for you. But if those people now are given x number of FPs in the parks, those are no longer available for those staying at the less expensive options, thereby affecting them negatively. I seriously doubt Disney is planning to lower their gate prices for those who can no longer access FPs for free. It's like paying the same amount for a 10 oz. box of cereal that you used to pay for 12 oz. They just hope most people won't notice the difference.

The Fastpass system is not changing, that will always be available. What's being added is an additional "X-Pass" level for people willing to pay for it.

Nothing is being taken away from anyone, but people who are willing to spend additional money for their vacation experience are benefiting.

I understand that this won't be looked at as "fair" by people who can't or don't think it's fair to have to spend additional money to get "all of the perks" but it is no different than people getting EMH who are willing to spend the extra money to stay on site.

 

[WDWMom]

I honestly won't be shocked when it happens. I've been saying all along they expect a huge influx of people when the FLE opens. I wouldn't be surprised to see them tighten up on a number of things in preparation for the throngs. I think they expect something akin to the opening of WWoHP. I hope they're not too disappointed when that doesn't quite pan out.

It just really is a shame to see them trying to fix things that aren't broken.

But the system is broke! We were in the stand by line for Kali once with a wait time of 30 mins mid afternoon. It turned out to be 90 mins because the FP line was to long and continual. People had 10 am FP and didn't want to ride then because it was too cool and they didn't want to be wet. They wanted to wait until it was warmer in they. We were timing how long the SB line didn't move. Several times it was over 15 mins.

We have also be in the FP line on Space Mt that took over 30 mins to walk thru. We were talking to others in the line. Most at FP that were for earlier in the day. This was around 7ish. The same thing with Soarn' People had FP for mid day and said they wanted to go back and nap. So because they wanted to nap, I had to stand in the FP line for over 30 mins. So much for front of the line.

So yes, the system is broke and needs to be fixed. I say it's about time.

 

[Reddog1134]

Not same at all. Many stay at Deluxes regardless, just because they like it and many stay in particular resort just because they like it. I do not want CL at Poly only to have better experience in parks, I prefer CBR and ability to pay for whatever extras I want. I am not given base ticket in value, hopper at moderate and water parks in deluxes, I can choose and build my vacation as I want it. I am all for paid extras but I want to choose what I pay for.

You're missing my point.

Using Universal as an example. A person that is disgruntled by a class system will not care if you are paying to stay at the Hard Rock and receiving Express Pass as a bonus or if you are paying solely for the Express Pass. They will perceive you as someone that has the money to pay for those extra things where as they do not.

 

[Liandro]

You're missing my point.

Using Universal as an example. A person that is disgruntled by a class system will not care if you are paying to stay at the Hard Rock and receiving Express Pass as a bonus or if you are paying solely for the Express Pass. They will perceive you as someone that has the money to pay for those extra things where as they do not.

So it all boils down to jealous people being nasty to others?

 

[Reddog1134]

So it all boils down to jealous people being nasty to others?

Yes, basically. Sad, but true.

 

[KellyNY]

You're missing my point.

Using Universal as an example. A person that is disgruntled by a class system will not care if you are paying to stay at the Hard Rock and receiving Express Pass as a bonus or if you are paying solely for the Express Pass. They will perceive you as someone that has the money to pay for those extra things where as they do not.

That is their problem if they do not see the difference, they are very welcome to move to China if they want.

 

[Reddog1134]

But the system is broke! We were in the stand by line for Kali once with a wait time of 30 mins mid afternoon. It turned out to be 90 mins because the FP line was to long and continual. People had 10 am FP and didn't want to ride then because it was too cool and they didn't want to be wet. They wanted to wait until it was warmer in they. We were timing how long the SB line didn't move. Several times it was over 15 mins.

We have also be in the FP line on Space Mt that took over 30 mins to walk thru. We were talking to others in the line. Most at FP that were for earlier in the day. This was around 7ish. The same thing with Soarn' People had FP for mid day and said they wanted to go back and nap. So because they wanted to nap, I had to stand in the FP line for over 30 mins. So much for front of the line.

So yes, the system is broke and needs to be fixed. I say it's about time.

Are you sure it was because of the FP line? Most rides have an hourly capacity of at least 1000+. So that would mean 1000 late FP users would have to enter the line while you were standing there.

 

[Alesia]

The Fastpass system is not changing, that will always be available. What's being added is an additional "X-Pass" level for people willing to pay for it.

Where did you get this information? From what I can tell, every single thing said on this thread is purely speculation, but if you actually have some inside information I'd love to know where it came from.

 

[Reddog1134]

That is their problem if they do not see the difference, they are very welcome to move to China if they want.

If they can't pay for a deluxe hotel, how do you expect them to afford a move to China?

 

[MVC1225]

But the system is broke! We were in the stand by line for Kali once with a wait time of 30 mins mid afternoon. It turned out to be 90 mins because the FP line was to long and continual. People had 10 am FP and didn't want to ride then because it was too cool and they didn't want to be wet. They wanted to wait until it was warmer in they. We were timing how long the SB line didn't move. Several times it was over 15 mins.

We have also be in the FP line on Space Mt that took over 30 mins to walk thru. We were talking to others in the line. Most at FP that were for earlier in the day. This was around 7ish. The same thing with Soarn' People had FP for mid day and said they wanted to go back and nap. So because they wanted to nap, I had to stand in the FP line for over 30 mins. So much for front of the line.

So yes, the system is broke and needs to be fixed. I say it's about time.

I have to say that in our experience I agree with this post.

I know that net riders using the FP system does not matter if used on time or late. If 1000 FP are distributed at the end of the day 1000 will be used so the net use is equal. However, the system (I assume) was designed by Disney to work differently than just looking at net.

For example, if 1000 FP are given for a day or 100 an hour then the most effecient use of the FP to ensure that all FP users wait an equal amount is just that - 100 users an hour. This is not what is happening however especially as the Disney policy to allow late use of the FP becomes more widely known. Please bear with me as this will become a long post.

Assuming for simplicity that there are 1000 FP in a day divided into 10 hour long blocks with each block having 100 FP distributed per hour this is how the system becomes skewed by the use of late FP.

10 am Printed FP Return Time: 95 used/100 issued
11 am: 95/100
12 pm: 90/100
1 pm: 90/100
2 pm: 85/100
3 pm: 85/100
4 pm: 95/100
5 pm: 105/100
6 pm: 115/100
7 pm: 145/100

Total is still 1000/1000 but if I have a FP with a 7 PM return time and use it in my one hour window my wait time will be considerably more than those using their FP at 2 PM. The "extra" FP users spots at 2 PM are taken by Stand By riders so there is no benefit for the 7 PM FP riders.

Now I realize that this example is simplistic and I had 6.5% of FP being used late which honestly I don't think anyone knows the % of FP that are used late but there is an effect when you look at specific FP wait times.

I know that we have used our FP at Soarin to ride in the 3-4 PM time range and used them to ride in the 7-8 PM time range and the later time range ALWAYS is a longer wait and not by a small amount.

The system as is being used while convenient (and again I will confess that we have on occassion used our FP late) is not the most efficient way to ensure that every FP user waits an equal amount of time which is I assume the way that Disney probably designed the system to work.

Personally, I think the CM policy of accepting late FP was implemented for the occassional group that was 15-30 minutes even an hour late (yes I know that is not what it states and this is just speculation on my part). I do not think that the policy was intended for returns 5-6-7 hours later.

Just my two cents...

 

[Raenstoirm]

Think of how the cruise lines operate. You pay for your room depending on what kind of room you want and can afford, but then the ship is there for you enjoy. There is not a separate dining room or pool for those staying in the suites with better food and warmer water. The waiters and bar tenders don't make you wait longer for your dinner or pool side drink because you are in an inside cabin instead of a suite.

Have you been on a cruise recently? There is VERY much a class system on board. Pay more money get MUCH better food (we didnt like the buffet and werent thrilled with the main dining room, so we upgraded to the better restaurants for $40 per person per day). High level guests get priority disembarking (paid for this privilege as well) at ports and especially at the end of the cruise. We were off the ship, with our bags, through customs and on our merry way 1 hour before other passengers were allowed to leave at all.
For some longer cruises there is actually classes, as in you are a "first class passenger" and you get upgraded everything, from food to pools to services.

The difference is that regular people dont see these perks, so you think everyone is equal when in reality it all can be bought.

On Royal Caribbean guest willing to pony up the $$ for a suite definitely get special treatment. There is as area reserved for them in the shows, they have their own reserved areas near (but not upfront) at the pools, they have a concierge lounge with cocktails before dinner, etc. I really do not have a problem with that there are limited suites on the ship and it does not impact my experience on the ship in a negative manner.

Oh and dont forget the Diamond lounge. We were not allowed access to this, but it looked really nice from the outside!

 

[Colleen27]

Dumb? My friend was/is a CM in Paris and they sold these passes like hot dogs.
The price was 75 Euro per person,per day.

I think it works in Paris because 1) fewer people visit the parks to begin with and 2) it isn't a destination where you spend a week. $400 for front of the line for a family for one day is one thing, but $1600 to hit each of the 4 WDW parks for one day each is quite another.

And really? You don't think something that costs a typical family $400 for a single day is creating a class system for ride access?