Fastpass Enforcement coming?

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If this turns out to be true, it will negatively impact our experience greatly for many reasons, many of them mentioned already. Really bummed about this if it happens.

Dan
 
I wonder how large groups will handle this change. We often visit with family and have gotten 15+ fast passes at one time. Often the return time changes between FPs, usually only 5 to 10 minutes. This could mean more time coordination if we are only allowed 20 minutes to enter.

I know popular rides at DL, like Star Tours can take us 10 minutes just to get to the FP person.

Sounds like a mess. I don't see why they have to change things.

My understanding of the change was that the Fastpasses will still have an hour block printed on them, but instead of using it any time AFTER the starting time you will be able to use it 5 minutes ahead of the starting time and up to 15 minutes after the ENDING time...so you have an hour and twenty minutes...not just twenty minutes...to enter the ride. So it shouldn't be a problem if a large party's entry times get shifted while obtaining fastpasses since they only shift five minutes at a time if I'm remembering correctly.
 
Really, you've got to be kidding right? I'm not sure how anyone would know what "most people" go to WDW for (unless you conducted a survey) But, we go for the rides. Now that the kids are older we dont worry about autographs, we've seen all the shows and parades, but we really enjoy the rides. Maybe we're in the minority, but I think the reality probably is that people go for a number of reasons and I am sure that the rides are included in that list, or else why would the lines get so long? I see people get in 90 minute lines for some rides (which I'd never do). They must really like the ride to wait that long.

Maybe I should have said that most people don't go just for the rides. It is only my opinion though, I don't have a survey to back it up.;) But I do think most people don't tour WDW by racing from one ride to the next. They stop and look around, maybe have a Mickey bar or some popcorn, and enjoy the park atmosphere. If someone is going to WDW and just running from one ride to the next they are missing so much. Again, just my opinion.
 
I wonder how large groups will handle this change. We often visit with family and have gotten 15+ fast passes at one time. Often the return time changes between FPs, usually only 5 to 10 minutes. This could mean more time coordination if we are only allowed 20 minutes to enter.

I know popular rides at DL, like Star Tours can take us 10 minutes just to get to the FP person.

Sounds like a mess. I don't see why they have to change things.

Time does change but how dramatically it changes to mess your family of 15? :confused3 It not like you will have an hour gap between your return times, so you can absolutely wait 15 min if even that for everyone in your family to be able to get in, I see no problem at all.
 

Yet another reason to check out Universal next trip...boooo:mad:
 
It could very well be written by the the same folks who wrote the algorithm that determines the BCS standings.

Lord help us all if it is....... :lmao:

I have absolutely no problems with enforcing the rules.

Generally I think changes occur because some how, some way people are abusing the system. Getting a fp with return time for 3 then deciding to wait 4 hours to use it has to put kinks in the system.

Now I know, every one here will swear that they never ever intentionally misuse fast passes but this is the dis world.

Personally for me it's not a big problem, if I miss a ride, I miss it. not the end of the world but I have the luxury of knowing I'll be back.

I admit, my family has intentionally "misused" the FP's we received on our last trip. We picked up FP's in the morning for later in the day. BUT....if we are going to open the FP police can of worms then so did EVERYONE else who pixie-dusted a family with their FP's when they couldn't use them because each FP says "Nontransferable". This change is disappointing to me. Will it change how often I go to Disney? No as this was our last trip for a long time anyways so we won't be back for a few years after this summer. Will it make it harder for us to ride everything we want to on our trip this summer? Probably.....

I'm not the poster you quoted, but I have been during many peak seasons, and that is pretty much what I do. Look at the FP board, and if the time doesn't work for me, I don't take it. I go off and have my meal or ride another ride or whatever and go back for a FP later. Or wait in the line.

Sorry, I don't wait in a 2 hour plus line for my kids to ride TSM and honestly there are NO FP's later in the day for TSM. It's usually now or never when we go. Will I skip it this trip? Nope, I don't have ADR's made for this trip.


I think there is also a difference to be noted between families who go every year for a week or two at a time and families who get to go once or twice in their lifetimes. These two groups are going to have VERY different touring styles which the first enjoying all of the little things and the second trying to see/ride all they can.
 
Man it is hard to catch up on this thread.

My first comment is to all the people who claim that this is now enforcement of the policy. The current policy is clear, fastpass users returning on the same day after their FP becomes valid are accepted no matter the return time, therefore, any decision to hold people to a window is a change in policy.

I agree that if you are going to hold FP users to a window then the user should be allowed to pick the window, if available. Also there should be central FP stations where users can get FP's for any attraction, thereby eliminating what will now be an inordinate amount of criss-crossing the park. Perhaps this is all part of the NextGen system.

I actually think this will make me more of a park hopper. I will think of going to the early EMH park or whichever park is expected to be busy early, then hit the emptier parks later in the day. Since most people do not do rope drops I can still get there early, hit my favorite rides, maybe get an early FP or two which I can use before leaving the now filling park and head over to the park that has the smaller crowds where FP's for later in the day will probably still be available (except TSMM of course) and standby lines will be shorter.
 
/
Disney's interpretation:
At least, until March 7th?

And that's fine, if they allow it now. But after March 7th, people just need to pay more attention to what the return times are on the FPs before they get them and only return during that window. I was just pointing out that people are freaking out like it's the end of the world that WDW is going to suddenly start enforcing the printed return time.

Of course, this is 2012...maybe this is the first sign of the Apocalypse?
 
I'm not sure that one is valid. Right now there's no deadline factor with FPs so people are criss-crossing the parks at a fairly leisurely pace as they collect and later use their FPs, which allows time for browsing shops and indulging collecting hobbies like pins and vinylmation. If you have somewhere to be at a certain time you're less likely to stop in just to browse.

I picked up Test Track FPs around 1pm last week with a 3:40 return time; we used them around 7. In the meantime we ate at Le Cellier, rode Figment and spent some time playing in the post show (and buying my youngest a stuffed Figment, and accidentally starting her obsession with trading for Figment pins), met Alice and bought some tea in the UK, did a Kim Possible mission in France, got a henna tattoo in Morocco, spent way more than I intended in Japan, ate kaki-gori, bought caramels in Germany, enjoyed a glass of rosa regale in Italy, picked up a pair of earrings in Mexico, pressed pennies in every country, etc. That's a lot more money spent than if we had to drop everything an hour or two into the World Showcase to rush back to Test Track to use a FP on time!

On the other hand, perhaps there are too many people like me, who DON'T leisurely browse through gift shops. Say I spend the morning collecting FPs for later use. At 1pm I have 5 or 6 of them, with a Test Track FP for 3:40pm. Most likely I WON'T remain in the park getting henna tattoos, buying earrings, or having tea in the UK. I'm more liable to return to the hotel for a nap or swim or perhaps even, GASP!! venture offsite to spend money eating in a non-Disney restaurant. :scared1: Then return after 7pm to use my FPs at will. If Disney started enforcing the FP return times, I'd definitely remain in the park until at least 3:40 and maybe even buy some caramels in Germany.

For the record, I enjoy having the opportunity to return to use a FP whenever I please that day and don't wish to see it end. But I'd adjust.

As for the Next Gen, I'd have to see how it works. It's possible THAT may cause me to re-evaluate whether it's worth visiting Disney at all.

Jim
 
Personally, I'm pretty disappointed in this news if it is accurate. We usually park hop, so we don't collect in the morning to use at night. Instead, we just made sure the return time was during the hours we planned to be in the park and took one if it did, not really paying attention to the window anymore after that. We also often gave them away to people if we decided not to use them, and had several people give us their unused FP's as well. I hope this isn't true, although I do tend to trust Len Testa's word over at TP.com. And unfortunately, I just don't think enough people even know you can do this to cause enough ruckus to make Disney realize they made a bad decision. Most people I overhear in the parks still think you have to pay for FP, or have to use the one you have before you are allowed to get another one. We will still be regular WDW visitors, but it will change the way we tour the parks, that's for sure.
 
Well, all of our my touring plans for our trip include the ability to use fast passes after the window. How disappointing. Our trip is in late March - Very Crowded, and I wonder if the new Touring Plans will even be up by then (the ones that don't utilize "return whenever" fastpasses).

Not to open a whole new can of worms - but my son has Autism. We've always avoided getting a GAC by utilizing fast passes and touring plans. We may just have to use a GAC on our next trip. I wonder if we will see a larger abuse of that system?

:confused3
 
Well, all of our my touring plans for our trip include the ability to use fast passes after the window. How disappointing. Our trip is in late March - Very Crowded, and I wonder if the new Touring Plans will even be up by then (the ones that don't utilize "return whenever" fastpasses).

Not to open a whole new can of worms - but my son has Autism. We've always avoided getting a GAC by utilizing fast passes and touring plans. We may just have to use a GAC on our next trip. I wonder if we will see a larger abuse of that system?

:confused3

Our trip is the beginning of April - even more crowded - and I was definitely planning on relying on "expired" fast passes. I hope touringplans.com will have some sort of fix before the implementation on March 7th.
 
missing a FP window can happen, but a 15 minutes cushion should be more than enough.

in my opinion, getting a FP in the morning with the intent of using it in the afternoon, hours after the return window, is basically line cutting.
To me it's like having an appointment at 10am with your Doctor, and coming in by 5pm on the pretense that you had to go shopping, and arguing that you must get front of the line access because you had an appointment that day... that's just downright rude in my book

FP system is a courtesy designed to make it easier (and faster) for you to access a ride at a certain time. There would be no point in issuing a return window if the FP was designed to be valid all day.

Now if a majority of guests took FPs in the morning for use when the rides are overcrowded in the afternoon, of course the lines would get faster at scheduled FPs return times, but the rides would become unridable if that vast majority of late returners decided to return around the same time.
As was said, not all the guests are aware of the policy for late return, but I guess that more and more guests do get aware of that, and more and more people are abusing the system, and to the point that the system is on the verge of collapsing.

Actually if we look at this thread, we can realise how FPs have become a "way of life" to many, and how guests take them for granted. And it's easy to see how guests will consider that FPs are valid whenever they want. But that's not how the fastpass system was designed.

Sorry - I don't agree with that. Then you could consider the whole system line cutting.
 
"Professional" Fastpass collectors? Now this thread REALLY has been taken over by the space lizards!

REALLY! I mean c'mon people! I can't even imagine what the percentage of 'late FP users' is anyway. I'm thinking probably a small amount. JMO :goodvibes
 
well. I hope this isn't true, although I do tend to trust Len Testa's word over at TP.com. , I just don't think enough people even know you can do this to cauAnd unfortunatelyse enough ruckus to make Disney realize they made a bad decision. Most people I overhear in the parks still think you have to pay for FP, or have to use the one you have before you are allowed to get another one. We will still be regular WDW visitors, but it will change the way we tour the parks, that's for sure.

See I hear the opposite. I hear the people in line complaining about how come folks get to use their fast passes 5 hours late and grumble about it. especially on rides like soarin and TSM.

I think disney has been hearing complaints to think about enforcing a rule for the simple fact Disney is the high king of not enforcing rules. Pool hopping, mugs, parking... for years disney has let guest pretty much do what they want. How many times a year do we get the post..."my little darling is turning 7 and I want to have 20 relatives over to swim at our resort pool" and how many times do we hear as answers "Sure, simply ask the front desk and if they say yes it's ok" even though disney resorts specifically say the pools are for the use by the guest.

Maybe the fact that disney is finally enforcing some thing is the reason people are getting worried.

just a thought.
 
"I cannot think of one benefit that changing (enforcing end times) will have If someone can point out a benefit, I'd be happy to hear it."

To keep you in the park, in the restuarants and shops. They don't want you hoarding fastpasses (and that is what some of you are doing), leaving the park (and taking your wallet with you) and returning later in they day only to ride rides and not shop and not eat. By enforcing the time they want you to extend your park time for all day, not just a portion of it. Remember, Disney is about separating your money from your wallet. Stiffly said, but truthful.

I've never been a fan of FP (yes, I use it, but I guess I am one of the stupid ones who actually uses it during the return time window), and on my last trip, now I know why. I arrived at MK around 3 in the afternoon. Space Mountain FP were gone, I got a FP for Splash Mountain for 9:30 - 10:30, and by the time I could get another FP, BTMM were gone, PP were gone, Dumbo were gone, and I forget what else, but most of them were gone.
So, I decided I had to do stand by. Well, stand by waits, by 7PM were out of whack. I went in the JC standby line that said 20 minutes. Well, an hour later I finally got to ride and now I know why, it was all those late arriving FP users who were coming through by the dozens. They weren't counted in when calculaing the stand by time because the stand by time had calculated that all of the 2PM returns, for example, had already come through. BTMM at least said 45 minutes, and that was accurate as BTMM uses two tracks, one dedicated to FP and dedicated to standby, so the line moved pretty regularly.

All of the standby queues in the evening were much longer because of late FP returns. The line for Splash Mountain said 30 minutes at 10:00 PM when I returned, but I am sure it was much longer. The number of FP people returning were far more than what was in that 10:00 PM window. I felt for those who were right at the point where the FP return met the standby queue and they looked annoyed as dozen upon dozen of FP riders were let by, and I bet many of those were well past the 10PM return time.

FP was designed for line smoothing throughout the day, I don't believe it was designed for people to stack them up and then go through them in a couple of hours in the evening.

For all you FP hoarders, and those lamenting how their touring plans our now ruined, what did you do before FP?

Nostaglia time, (feel free to ignore) our best trip to Disney was in 1999, before FP and well before ADR. We could walk into Epcot and eat at Rose and Crown, or Germany, or Italy with a same-day reservation, eat at Prime-Time or Sci-Fi Drive In by making a reservation when we walked into the park. We managed our day by standing in line, like everyone else. One line, for all customers, managed equally. We had a great trip. Did everything we wanted, ate everywhere we wanted, saw all the parades and shows and rides. And were successful, even without FP. No trip since has been as much fun (every trip is fun, but on degrees, just not as much fun). You could just be more spontaneous, which is really funny if you knew me and how much of a planner I actually am!. :rotfl2: :laughing:

IMHO, it just takes the fun out of it when I have to figure out where I want to eat 6 months in advance. I don't know what I'm having for dinner tomorrow (today is taken care of), much less 6 months from now. In the future, then, is Disney wanting me to plan what time I want to ride Soarin, or Star Tours 6 months in advance too?
Yes, been to Disney 5 or 6 times since 1999, and no trip has ever matched that magical week back in 1999. Now we eat outside the parks and only get snacks at the parks, we use FP, but we return at the specified times, and if we can't, then we don't get the FP until we can use it. The further down reservation road (Gen X system) Disney goes, IMHO, the more they take the fun out of the parks.
Not saying I won't go (where else can I ride Star Tours), but some of the fun has been taken out.

Dolby1000

First all - all this talk about being FP Hoarders and hoarding FP's... it's not like people can run through the park collecting FP's. Most of the time you can't get another FP until at least an hour, sometimes 2 hours, after the end time of your current FP. So how many FP's can one really collect before heading back to their resort, etc by the end of the day? And if they are staying in a Disney resort... they are not leaving their wallet closed... they are still spending money on Disney property.

Again - I think the number of people that come back late to a return time is minimal. Many people aren't even aware you can do it. I have a hard time believing that's what made your evening wait times long.

In regard to your trip in 1999 - I remember those types of trips too. BUT... that was all before 'free dining', stay for 4 days and get 3 free, etc.

Disney, as all businesses, are in it to make $$$$$. Many people make touring plans to get the most out of their vacation and THEIR hard earned $$$. If that includes coming back late for a FP - so be it! :)
 
See I hear the opposite. I hear the people in line complaining about how come folks get to use their fast passes 5 hours late and grumble about it. especially on rides like soarin and TSM.

I think disney has been hearing complaints to think about enforcing a rule for the simple fact Disney is the high king of not enforcing rules. Pool hopping, mugs, parking... for years disney has let guest pretty much do what they want. How many times a year do we get the post..."my little darling is turning 7 and I want to have 20 relatives over to swim at our resort pool" and how many times do we hear as answers "Sure, simply ask the front desk and if they say yes it's ok" even though disney resorts specifically say the pools are for the use by the guest.

Maybe the fact that disney is finally enforcing some thing is the reason people are getting worried.

just a thought.
Why would people stand in line and complain about late FP users when they could have gotten a FP earlier in the day and been one of those people? I believe that most people have no idea that this is Disney's policy. I have met and talked to people who have been to Disney numerous times and consider themselves well versed experts that had no idea that they could use a FP after the time printed.

Most of what I read in this thread is speculation, perception and anecdotal evidence of a problem. When you are in a standby line and a sudden influx of FP users hit the line how do you know how many, if any, are "late"? Certainly they can all be using their FP's within the printed window.
 
You are right, it is very simple. CMs are taught/trained to accept FP until the end of the day they are printed on. mesaboy2 posted a picture earlier in this thread. I'll never understand why people who won't accept that make statements like they are superior to those of us that understand and use FP in the acceptable way.

The current policy is a "tolerance". I guess that it was originally designed to give some freedom to the system for those rare occasions when all goes wrong and you really can't make it. But once people get to know the trick, they abuse the system, and once the system is abused it reverts back to a zero tolerance policy.

It's like your local traffic lights. The "law" states that you need to stop at red lights, but in places it is tolerated to make a right turn at the red light. Late return for FPs is quite similar, but here, with FPs, it's like people would take that tolerance for granted and make the turn no matter what, and despite cars coming from their left. Once such events occur, you get to see signs that say "no right turn on red" at some crossings.
Try to think of the upcoming enforcement as a "no right turn" sign popping up on your neighborhood's traffic light

It costs me a couple of thousand dollars to fly my family of 4 to WDW from where I live. I am not going to be impressed with my vacation if I wasn't able do a lot of the headliner attractions. I am also not going to be impressed if my vacation completely appointment driven by FPs and ADRs.
If you want to speak big money, I wished it cost me that little amount of money to bring my family of 3 to WDW ... and if being impressed had to measure and compare to the money invested in the trip, would that mean that I'd have to be far more impressed than you ?
Actually I expect as much from my trip as the next person, and even if you're right wanting to do the headliners, so are other guests right to want to ride them as well. I must say that I am less than impressed by people hoarding up FPs when they have no intention being on time, and even though the system permits that.
How would you hate not being able to ride a headliner because the guest in front of you got the last one ? Now think about how many FPs were gone before and won't be used at a time you could have used them ?

And how hard is it to respect a time window for a FP return ?
Millions of guests come to Disneyland Paris each year, and each one of them has to deal with a strict FP return time policy. Yet they all manage to cope with the regulation, and I'm not under the impression that it puts a lot of stress on them, or that it requires heavy planning. Actually it's pretty simple : stand in front of the FP machine, check the return time listed on the board, assess if, barring an act of god, you'll be able to make it back in time, if yes, then get the FP, if not then let another guest enjoy the ride.


My DS has autism and we need FP's because long crowded lines where people might bump him sets him off.
Definitely go for AGC, it won't get you any faster to the rides, but with or without FP it will allow your son to wait (whenever possible) in a place where he won't get pushed around, and where he'll be more comfortable. disabilities and FPs are not related. FPs remain a way to avoid to wait in line, but even an FP line could get traumatic for an autistic child.
I saw that a later poster opened the can of worms about GAC abuse, but as a thread on the disabilities board goes, there is nothing to be ashamed of using GAC when it's justified. And as far as you're concerned, with the GAC, the enforcement of the policy won't matter a bit, since I doubt a CM would deny you late access with FP on a GAC issue.


My use of the FP does not have any impact on 1)the number of people in the park, or 2)the number of people who can ride an attraction in a day. FP's are not intended to move you to the front of the line, they are to allow you to spend your waiting time somewhere else (like buying food or merchandise)
while 1) and 2) are true, the rest is questionable.
Your point is valid. But we both know that a guest will try to ride another ride rather than go shopping or getting a snack.
To some extend this guest will be in two lines at the same time. A real one and a virtual one. And as per your 2) this will come in the way of your 1) because in effect it will amount to bringing one more guest (a virtual one) into the park.
So it really depends on the way the guest will use the extra time granted by the FP.

Sorry - I don't agree with that. Then you could consider the whole system line cutting.
Not at all.
The FP system (as I know it in Disneyland Paris and as it should/would be in WDW) allows you to gain faster access to a ride at a given time (return window)
At that point it is a courtesy and a much appreciated feature.
I consider that it becomes line cutting when you get a FP with the deliberate intention of using it past your return window.
It's a matter of "savoir vivre".
Let's say you're invited over at friends. They tell you to come around 12am and 12:30 and you show up at 5pm. Lunch will be cold but the woman of the house might be kind enough to get something for you to eat and there is no law forbidding you to do that. But does that make it right ? that's just rude.

And to close this long post, let me tell you of a little story that happens from time to time in Disneyland Paris.
There has been some occasions when the FP system had problems, and too many were given out. The result was similar to what happens when many guests return with late FPs in WDW. The only difference is that in WDW it does not show because it happens everyday. But in Disneyland Paris it's a rare occurence so the effect is more visible. And what is the effet ? well at some points FP lines get bigger and longer than Standby lines, leading some FP holders to actually discard their FPs and ride standby. At that point the FP system has reached its limits.
And just because it happens everyday in WDW does not make it right and the issue is not solved just because we don't want to see it, or because the system suits us very well as it is.

What you're experiencing in WDW with late FP returns is a perk only avalaible with the most exclusive (and expensive) Disney accomodations in Paris, and it sure comes with a fee (such as VIP fastpasses). Be glad you've been able to enjoy a free ride for so long. European guests live with the time window policy and they don't whine or find it unmanageable.
 
I know it's been said already, but it's worth repeating. If they make this change, it's not because people were returning outside the window, it's because the new system requires stricter time management. It makes sense when viewed with the perspective that they will be adding the ability for some guests to get XPasses from home in advance.

They wouldn't have kept the current policy for years and years if it caused any problems.
I believe they need the fast pass times to be upheld so they can sell the reserved times with the new system, with the guarantee that extra people wont be in the fastpass line too.

The fp system was designed to make money. If people are standing in lines for acttractions then they're not spending money.
I agree, but with selling the new reserved times they dont care if you are in line, they are making money off it. (you wait long enough in a standby line spending extra on the fastpass doesnt look so bad)
Make no mistake, FP exists to improve Disney's bottomline. The less time we spend in line, the more $$$ we spend at Disney. If, Disney thinks they can sell this "benefit"? You better believe, they will.
I agree 100%

Yet another reason to check out Universal next trip...boooo:mad:

Sounds like a good idea :)

Ok so here is my 2 cents.....

1. People will have a MILLION excuses as to why they are late (poor Cast Members)
2. By enforcing the fastpass times people will be running back and forth to ensure getting on rides in time (time consuming)
3. All the walking in the parks we do now tires people out imagine almost doubling that to hit fastpass times
4. Groups with kids have a few more unexpected delays than Adult only groups. (delays will happen Bathroom stops, melt downs etc.. causing parents to be angry when fast pass times are missed)
5. A tired unhappy person is less likely to stand nicely by while their child wants to shop, and less likely to shop themselves.
6. With the time being used walking back and forth there is less time for other rides (if you wait for the appropriate time to come up on the fastpass you are still wasting time)
7. With less time for other rides and peoples vacations only being so long they want to fit everything in in their visit.
8. With people wanting to fit everything in on their visit they will keep the kids up later (tired, crying, cranky kids)

Ok my Point is the Cast Members will have to field all the backlash from this change, making them less "Happy". With enforcing fastpass times people will be walking more making them more tired and cranky,they will need more time in the park to complete things they want to do causing kids to be extra tired and cranky. With not having time at their leasure they will be less likely to take time in the stores during the day, and even more unlikely to spend extra time at the end of the day when They are Cranky, the kids are Cranky , and the Cast Members are not so "happy" in shops spending extra $$. All I see happening from this "change" is My happy take my time Vacation turning into a marathon with lots of dissapointments, and the "Happiest Place On Earth" being the crankiest place on earth. I dont see Disney making any extra $$ with peoples time consumed in making the next fastpass time. This will cause people to make less ADRs in order to have the flexability for fastpass times. So people lose shopping time, dining time, and ride time. To me that equals less Money for Disney and Unhappy customers ( who spred the word that Disney is just over priced and Money hungry). Sad situation I see happening. How many of you are going to be happy buying your reserved time for TSM? For me I think it will make the Running of the bulls (at all the parks)10X worse, as people will be out to get the best times. Unless you want to pay of course. I love Disney and the fastpass, but I hate what they are doing with this. I would pay for the flexable fastpass but Not a reserved time fastpass!! If people just keep going with the flow I fear my vacation will be as scheduled as my work day!! The movie ANTZ comes to mind!!
 
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