Fastpass Enforcement coming?

[Dr. M]

I think I'm going to cry....Spring Break...crowd level 10....no FP flexible return time....

 

[Missyrose]

I think I'm going to cry....Spring Break...crowd level 10....no FP flexible return time....

You won't get much sympathy on this thread, but I feel your pain. I hope everything works out on your trip!

 

[Mickeylivesinseattle]

This won't impact me. I always use my FP during the allotted window.

I may be in the minority but I am more than willing to pay for FP access. Something similar to what Universal does. If you are a Disney resort guest then you should be able to pay for the right to use the FP lines. There is a demand here that Disney can make lots of $ off of.

 

[DVCLuver82]

Your example just doesn't make sense. You say it is somehow unfair to the group that shows up later and can't ride because of the flood of late FP users. You are ignoring the fact that Space Mountain runs at capacity all day - in other words, every car is full from opening until close. This is significant because what it means is that the same number of people will ride everyday (I know, some rides have the option of increased capacity with more cars and whatever, but follow me here...). The same number of people ride Space Mountain everyday (approximately). So, what difference does it make when a FP user arrives? As a matter of fact, the later they use them the better since people waiting in standby are standing there hoping no one will enter the FP cue and thus make their wait even longer. This "flood of late users" argument always comes up but is misguided. The "group later" that waits until 5 minutes before the park closes to ride a ride with a 40 minute average wait time is not entitled to any fairness anyway. Get in line earlier in the day and HOPE that FP holders wait until the last minute to use them.

I understand that at the end of the day if there is 1000 cars that's can go an hour and the park is open for 10 hours that at the end of the day with everything running perfect 10000 cars will go. If 900 passes are being issued that day an all of them are used it doesn't affect the overall total number of riders. However, what it does affect is the individual wait times of the fast pass guests who have additional people show up during their time slot. Instead of thise riders going earlier they are now adding additional bodies into the fast pass cue which increases wait times for both standby and the fast pass guests. Again, I understand that in total it's still the same amount of bodies riding at the end if the day but it impacts the individual wait times for those abiding by the window times.

 

[TwiddleDeeTwiddleDum]

BTW - truth be told, I miss the old days when you stood in line for 2 hours in the hot Florida sun waiting to ride 20,000 Leagues. It was a much simpler time.

LOL - yeah, me too

Having done it both ways, I find it much easier to tour a park without having to backtrack to meet a FP window time. I didn't know until 2 trips ago about returning anytime after the FP window opened up but it certainly made our touring so much more enjoyable. I will really miss that our next trip if the policy sticks.

As far as some of the remarks that showing up for FP & ADR's time are the same, I beg to differ. The attraction goes on whether or not you show up with your FP on time, late or not at all. Seating for dining, IMO, is different not only because it's good manners to arrive for an ADR you made, but with the new policy the guest will now be charged for no-show.

So if for whatever reason you are delayed for a FP or ADR there is a financial consequence for missing the ADR, but on the other hand, if we have only 1 day per park & the only available time I can take my kid on TSM or Soarin conflicts with my ADR and the stand by is as my friend noted for "2 hours in the hot Florida sun" then I'm going to be rethinking is it really worth it to book an ADR and perhaps miss out on those "not to miss" attractions. Especially when I've had to guess 180 in advance where I'd like to book that ADR on top of spending the money to get into the park where the restaurant is located. I think it comes down to is it really worth it to have to do so much planning just to ride an attraction &/or go to WDW at all

 

[Colleen27]

I understand that at the end of the day if there is 1000 cars that's can go an hour and the park is open for 10 hours that at the end of the day with everything running perfect 10000 cars will go. If 900 passes are being issued that day an all of them are used it doesn't affect the overall total number of riders. However, what it does affect is the individual wait times of the fast pass guests who have additional people show up during their time slot. Instead of thise riders going earlier they are now adding additional bodies into the fast pass cue which increases wait times for both standby and the fast pass guests. Again, I understand that in total it's still the same amount of bodies riding at the end if the day but it impacts the individual wait times for those abiding by the window times.

But it also positively impacts the wait times of other guests who had shorter lines during the time when those late FPs should have been used. In the end it is zero-sum. Someone waits a little longer but someone else waits a little less. And because late FPs users only tend to concentrate enough to have a measurable effect late in the day (large tour groups aside, because they'll have a big effect regardless of whether they return late or on time), they are effectively shortening wait times slightly during the afternoon hours when they should have returned - the time of day when lines are longest - at the price of slightly longer lines in the evenings when wait times tend to be a bit shorter across the board.

 

[Interpol]

But it also positively impacts the wait times of other guests who had shorter lines during the time when those late FPs should have been used. In the end it is zero-sum. Someone waits a little longer but someone else waits a little less. And because late FPs users only tend to concentrate enough to have a measurable effect late in the day (large tour groups aside, because they'll have a big effect regardless of whether they return late or on time), they are effectively shortening wait times slightly during the afternoon hours when they should have returned - the time of day when lines are longest - at the price of slightly longer lines in the evenings when wait times tend to be a bit shorter across the board.

+1, precisely. It all balances out. Being in the standby line means you get to go on the ride whenever you get to the front of the line. If you don't like waiting a little longer, then pick a time to wait in line where you don't get large numbers of Fastpass holders showing up at the same time.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I think I'm going to cry....Spring Break...crowd level 10....no FP flexible return time....

I'll give you a little sympathy. Disney's great about making changes, and only giving, a few days to adjust.

 

[cymbaldiva]

I don't believe I've ever broken a rule by using a fastpass outside the return window. If I did, I did it with Disney's approval. Choosing to take my vacation dollars elsewhere because of policy changes does not equate to throwing a fit.

It was a fit. Choosing to stomp off because a policy is enforced is a fit.

I've been out for a while but with this new development I thought I should return to see what's up...
It is still amazing to me that people consider it "getting away with" something when they used FP's beyond the window. But now it appears that the policy is changing - most likely as a result of new technology that is in the works to make waiting in line an ancient concept. I assure you that this change (firm FP window) has NOTHING to do with line management or because the other system wasn't working. This is just the next step in what is an ongoing process of improving wait times.

I have posted this many times, but here it is again - perhaps for the final time...

As the self-proclaimed Late Fastpass Expert, I submit the following:

By using your FP beyond the window, you are not "getting away" with something, you are not "breaking rules", you are simply using the FP as allowed. When I use my FP does not affect crowd control at WDW or the attraction. My use of the FP does not have any impact on 1)the number of people in the park, or 2)the number of people who can ride an attraction in a day. FP's are not intended to move you to the front of the line, they are to allow you to spend your waiting time somewhere else (like buying food or merchandise). Disney is a business and they understand that the only time you cannot spend money is when you are riding and when you are in line. FP is a win-win idea that reduces your standing in line time. If I use my FP during the time window, someone waiting in the standby line will just have to wait a little longer. If I use it later that day, that same person (and many others) will simply get to ride a little sooner. Either way, the same number of people still ride. Complicated? NO - just simple logistics and ride management.

I have do have firsthand information concerning "late" FP use. My cousin, Scott Bowden, works in Anaheim as a Senior Vice President in the Department of Planning, Revenue Management and Strategic Pricing - he and I have had a few conversations about this issue. It has now become a joke because whenever I call him, the first thing he says is "Fastpasses do not expire, what's up?"
Additionally, a father in our first China adoption travel group (Mike Lewinski) works for the outside firm in Buffalo that actually helped Disney design and implement the FP (they make some of the components in the machines and in the software). He is very familiar with the logistics of the FP and how they work to provide better guest movement in the parks.

To answer the question about why they print an end time and not simply the earliest time you may enter the FP line:
Because someone realized that people need guidelines. Seriously, it is because having a start and finish gives an appearance of a "reservation" instead of just giving you a time to return (which just seems like you're still waiting, just not in the line). People like an appointment. I am not kidding – it is no more scientific than that.

I do hear the argument that if everyone holds their FP until later it will clog the system. Consider the following extreme example:

5000 people collect FP's for Space Mtn in the morning and ALL of them choose to return after their window. The people in the standby line just have to wait. Still, the same number of people ride the ride and it never stops - it runs at capacity. BUT - for every one of those people who hold their FP until later, 1 person gets to ride earlier in the day.

Simplest example: you and I are the only people in the park. I use my FP at 10am(earliest return time printed on the FP), you (standby rider) have to wait. OR, I use my FP at 5pm(well after the end of the stated window) and you were able to ride anytime before that - with me not getting in your way.

If you don't believe you should use the FP's past the time, then don't. The fact is this: If I choose to not ride during the 2 hour window, it only means that someone else will fill my magical spot on the ride (someone from the standby line). If I did enter during the 2 hr time, that same person (theoretically) will ride AFTER me. None of this is intended as a rationalization, it is just basic theme park logistics. FP's do not expire (on that day, of course) and I know that for a fact.

Well, well. it looks like the self-proclaimed FP expert needs to make a few calls. Unfortunately, Scott has moved towards more of the accounting side of Operations, but hopefully he will have some insight into the new policy. If I can get any reliable information, I will post it.

Please ask your cousin why there are return times printed on the fast pass if there was never any intention of it being inforced - I've often wondered that.

Seriously ya'll - all this fuss about something that has always been printed? I just don't get it...

 

[mkacar24]

I agree with those who feel sorry for the cast members having to explain this.

Having to explain that the unofficial guide is really unofficial and that the complete wdw isn't completely accurate sounds like a pain. Especially since all the 2012 versions are on the shelf.

We are arriving on march 13th. Staying positive even with the change!

 

[kevdo]

My disappointment with this is that at the end of the day this is going to cause many, many hassles for guests.

Let's say I come up to Toy Story Mania and the FP return time is 11:50 -12:45. But I have a ADR for Noon on the same day across the park. I really can't go to the ride at 11:45 (5 mins early) and expect to make my ADR on time. Nor can I expect to make it to the ride at 1:00 (just an hour after my ADR starts, assuming I get seated on time).

And, thanks to Disney's latest $$ grabbing scheme, I can't skip out on my ADR because they will charge my credit card.

So, what do I do (besides the obvious - not ride)? I could return to the attraction later in the day but the FPs will surely be gone then. So, instead, I sit at the FastPass machine for a while for the return window to advance to a time that I know I can make. This could take a long time... and it isn't a magical time while I'm waiting either.

As noted by some, FP isn't a God given right. I guess I'm just saying that this new system is going to add more stress and friction to the Disney vacationer's experience. Which doesn't seem to me like a good change.

 

[mkacar24]

My disappointment with this is that at the end of the day this is going to cause many, many hassles for guests.

Let's say I come up to Toy Story Mania and the FP return time is 11:50 -12:45. But I have a ADR for Noon on the same day across the park. I really can't go to the ride at 11:45 (5 mins early) and expect to make my ADR on time. Nor can I expect to make it to the ride at 1:00 (just an hour after my ADR starts, assuming I get seated on time).

And, thanks to Disney's latest $$ grabbing scheme, I can't skip out on my ADR because they will charge my credit card.

So, what do I do (besides the obvious - not ride)? I could return to the attraction later in the day but the FPs will surely be gone then. So, instead, I sit at the FastPass machine for a while for the return window to advance to a time that I know I can make. This could take a long time... and it isn't a magical time while I'm waiting either.

As noted by some, FP isn't a God given right. I guess I'm just saying that this new system is going to add more stress and friction to the Disney vacationer's experience. Which doesn't seem to me like a good change.

We rarely if ever returned late during our visits but I 100% fully agree with this post. The main problem is going to be trying to coordinate meals and rides, and the amount of aimless lingering near the fast pass machines.

 

[book_junkie]

I, like others, feel sorry for the CMs who are going to have to deal with all this right in the middle of Spring Break and Easter. You would think that they would implement this with a thought to crowds and timing- start with smaller crowd levels and work their way up....

And since we have a month before we can get first hand reports, can someone let me know WHICH Space Lizards to expect, please? I like to be prepared, and their scouts were spotted in snake and lizard form wandering loose in Epcot and around my resort last October....

 

[mickeymaker2003]

I guess Disney doesn't have problems keeping their restaurants full, so if some choose to forgo ADRs because of potentially missing rides, others will fill the spots (and they'll make a ton off no-show fees). Disney could charge people for not coming, then turn around and accept a standby family who also pays for their food and make even more than if people had kept their reservation.

 

[cymbaldiva]

My disappointment with this is that at the end of the day this is going to cause many, many hassles for guests.

Let's say I come up to Toy Story Mania and the FP return time is 11:50 -12:45. But I have a ADR for Noon on the same day across the park. I really can't go to the ride at 11:45 (5 mins early) and expect to make my ADR on time. Nor can I expect to make it to the ride at 1:00 (just an hour after my ADR starts, assuming I get seated on time)

And, thanks to Disney's latest $$ grabbing scheme, I can't skip out on my ADR because they will charge my credit card.

So, what do I do (besides the obvious - not ride)? I could return to the attraction later in the day but the FPs will surely be gone then. So, instead, I sit at the FastPass machine for a while for the return window to advance to a time that I know I can make. This could take a long time... and it isn't a magical time while I'm waiting either.

As noted by some, FP isn't a God given right. I guess I'm just saying that this new system is going to add more stress and friction to the Disney vacationer's experience. Which doesn't seem to me like a good change.

Then you don't grab that fastpass because it won't work for you?

Fastpass IS a free courtesy, not a right. If it doesn't work for you, don't use it - easy enough

 

[Pikezh638]

Then you don't grab that fastpass because it won't work for you?

Fastpass IS a free courtesy, not a right. If it doesn't work for you, don't use it - easy enough

^

Agreed.

It feels like everyone that is mad about this, is blowing it way out of proportion.

 

[maxiesmom]

Then you don't grab that fastpass because it won't work for you?

Fastpass IS a free courtesy, not a right. If it doesn't work for you, don't use it - easy enough

Wow, no kidding! People are getting waaaay too worked up about this. I didn't realize there were so many people out there who used FastPasses outside of their actual use window.


If the time doesn't work for you, then don't take the FastPass. Wait in line, or move along to the next ride and come back later. As I stated a while back, we have never used a FastPass outside of it's window, and always make ADRs too. Never missed a meal becuase of FastPass either.

Balancing FastPasses and ADRs is so simple, even a caveman could do it. Honest!

 

[chmurf]

missing a FP window can happen, but a 15 minutes cushion should be more than enough.

in my opinion, getting a FP in the morning with the intent of using it in the afternoon, hours after the return window, is basically line cutting.
To me it's like having an appointment at 10am with your Doctor, and coming in by 5pm on the pretense that you had to go shopping, and arguing that you must get front of the line access because you had an appointment that day... that's just downright rude in my book

FP system is a courtesy designed to make it easier (and faster) for you to access a ride at a certain time. There would be no point in issuing a return window if the FP was designed to be valid all day.

Now if a majority of guests took FPs in the morning for use when the rides are overcrowded in the afternoon, of course the lines would get faster at scheduled FPs return times, but the rides would become unridable if that vast majority of late returners decided to return around the same time.
As was said, not all the guests are aware of the policy for late return, but I guess that more and more guests do get aware of that, and more and more people are abusing the system, and to the point that the system is on the verge of collapsing.

Actually if we look at this thread, we can realise how FPs have become a "way of life" to many, and how guests take them for granted. And it's easy to see how guests will consider that FPs are valid whenever they want. But that's not how the fastpass system was designed.

 

[Liandro]

Balancing FastPasses and ADRs is so simple, even a caveman could do it. Honest!

Well the guests in Disney Paris are no way cavemen and they all manage to use fast passes, eat and stroll through the parks without any problem. In Paris you don't get a minute outside of the printed window and still they manage thousands of people without the CM having to deal with a furious crowd.

 

[Tomh]

I have used fast passes outside the window many times, it is quite convenient, and I will miss that ability if it truly goes.

I'm not going to get mad about it, it is well within Disney's rights to change the way they use the system, and I will deal with those changes, and especially if this ushers in the ability to choose my own ride times from home.

I guess now, we just need to wait and see what REALLY happens.