Fast Passes shut down

[jonmar]

Wow, what a reaction to such a non issue. I guess text doesn't reveal tone. I certainly wasn't enraged or flipping out over this. In any case, the point I tried to make was simply that we chose that park due to what the guide said. For us, a 40 minute wait in that heat with a 4 year old was tough and of course not conducive to further riding. We remained at the park until 4 p.m. and did intermittently check the wait times again and they were no less than 40 minutes each time we checked. In the end it was a real bummer for us, but certainly not enough to ruin our holiday. The fact we were lied to only made the bummer worse.

While I appreciate those that take the time to espouse the virtues of being Disney experts, holding such a distinction is not something I aspire to, given the amount of real culture experiences that would be sacrificed. So while many of you could tell me how many urinals there are at MK, I take comfort in knowing that our family has broader horizons (That part was directed at those that chose to be rude, not those that simply disagreed). I will simply go forward with the understanding that Disney can do whatever they like whenever they like.

Thankfully I read the majority of post today prior to attending Disney Studios. We were able to use a Fast Pass to go on Rock and Roller Coaster. The ride broke down and we had to exit. We asked if we could get a re-entry pass since we had already handed in our Fast Passes. Now, I wasn't surprised by the response, given what I have read here. We were told we would have to find the original CM we gave our passes to and ask for them back. While this was of course a virtual impossibility, I did not let it get me down.

I remembered that if you feel the least bit put out by Disney, not to worry as their exists an army of devoted Disney Kool-Aid drinkers that hold an unlimited FastPass to receive a refill of 'Disney Does No Wrong'. My original post was to voice a frustration and to give others a service update at Disney. Clearly, many of you don't need it.

 

[TenderDonkey]

Tender Donkey I perhaps slightly misread what you were saying a few pages back, but only slightly. My main point is that Disney is constantly modifying their product - and many prices - and it is best that they do it. WE're kind of saying two different things.

Disney does charge more at different times of year. OP - incidentally - is going during one of the least expensive times to go. She's at bargain season WDW.

Ticket prices are widely advertised and thus remain relativley constant. Food prices are in constant flux; rarely do people notice the individual small differences. Disney is not alone. Many businesses use this stretegy. Advertise only part of the cost of a complex service. But we want ticket prices to remain constant.

I'll agree that at a certain point, it is appropriate for guests to politely speak up. I have done so on a good number of trips. I'll agree that YOUR example of only two characters at the character meal was legitmate grounds to speak up and politely say, "Hey, this doesn't seem right."

But I disagree with your less broad example of changing prices every time Disney makes small modifications to park content. The price would have to adjust every day. Either that, or Disney would lose much flexibility.

Let's say, on slow days Disney did keep just as many character greets, etc. as on Christmas week. There would be LOTS of empty boats on attractions, etc. I would find that very creepy.

This is simple supply and demand. Disney keeps the illusion of high demand when the crowds diminsh. We actually WANT that appearance - to a point.

We were at MK in early 2002. It was just wrong to see WDW that empty when it 'should' have been full. Supply was too high. Suddenly it seemed WDW was not a goo dplace to be. Emptiness contributed to that image.

I know WDW is creating an illusion of demand. I WANT that illusion. I support Disney fostering that illusion. The alternative in 2002 was not good.

Bargain season only applies to room rates. It is the same price for a single day ticket in July as it is in September. My only point is that if FP is offered in July it should be offered in September.

 

[itchin2go]

Wow, what a reaction to such a non issue. I guess text doesn't reveal tone. I certainly wasn't enraged or flipping out over this. In any case, the point I tried to make was simply that we chose that park due to what the guide said. For us, a 40 minute wait in that heat with a 4 year old was tough and of course not conducive to further riding. We remained at the park until 4 p.m. and did intermittently check the wait times again and they were no less than 40 minutes each time we checked. In the end it was a real bummer for us, but certainly not enough to ruin our holiday. The fact we were lied to only made the bummer worse.

While I appreciate those that take the time to espouse the virtues of being Disney experts, holding such a distinction is not something I aspire to, given the amount of real culture experiences that would be sacrificed. So while many of you could tell me how many urinals there are at MK, I take comfort in knowing that our family has broader horizons (That part was directed at those that chose to be rude, not those that simply disagreed). I will simply go forward with the understanding that Disney can do whatever they like whenever they like.

Thankfully I read the majority of post today prior to attending Disney Studios. We were able to use a Fast Pass to go on Rock and Roller Coaster. The ride broke down and we had to exit. We asked if we could get a re-entry pass since we had already handed in our Fast Passes. Now, I wasn't surprised by the response, given what I have read here. We were told we would have to find the original CM we gave our passes to and ask for them back. While this was of course a virtual impossibility, I did not let it get me down.

I remembered that if you feel the least bit put out by Disney, not to worry as their exists an army of devoted Disney Kool-Aid drinkers that hold an unlimited FastPass to receive a refill of 'Disney Does No Wrong'. My original post was to voice a frustration and to give others a service update at Disney. Clearly, many of you don't need it.

Wow indeed. I don't think you have to be a sycophant to think that a 40 minute wait for a beloved ride is not that big of a deal. There's no evidence anyone lied to you. They may have been mistaken. There's no sinister plot to derail your vacation. Nobody here is revelling in your misery despite our lack of "broader horizons". On the contrary, we're kind of confused by it.

 

[Planogirl]

Wow indeed. I don't think you have to be a sycophant to think that a 40 minute wait for a beloved ride is not that big of a deal. There's no evidence anyone lied to you. They may have been mistaken. There's no sinister plot to derail your vacation. Nobody here is revelling in your misery despite our lack of "broader horizons". On the contrary, we're kind of confused by it.

You know, what is important to one person isn't necessarily important to someone else. There might be reasons why the OP tries to avoid 40 minutes waits. I don't think it's fair to judge so harshly because we all have things that annoy us.

I don't really get it myself but why not let the OP vent?

 

[itchin2go]

You know, what is important to one person isn't necessarily important to someone else. There might be reasons why the OP tries to avoid 40 minutes waits. I don't think it's fair to judge so harshly because we all have things that annoy us.

I don't really get it myself but why not let the OP vent?

I get that, but I'm not sure the OP had to call us all sycophants without broader horizons.

 

[Tiger926]

You know, what is important to one person isn't necessarily important to someone else. There might be reasons why the OP tries to avoid 40 minutes waits. I don't think it's fair to judge so harshly because we all have things that annoy us.

I don't really get it myself but why not let the OP vent?

Totally good point - perhaps OP has a special needs child, or, another important reason why waiting in line is difficult?

But, I don't think name calling is appropriate. Just because many of us know Disney policy, it doesn't mean that we don't care. On the contrary...I've contacted Disney many times over the years for both postive praise and concerns. I do so for my benefit, as well as the benefit of other guests. I care beyond measure as I have spent thousands of dollars on DVC; therefore, I do care when a guest feels inconvenienced, or, a Disney attraction is out of commission. But as many of us have explained, it's all about expectations. I have been at Disney when the park was closed due to seriously inclement weather, parks were closed for crowd level 10s and monorails and other major attractions were broken down. It happens, and there is nothing much that can be done, except find something else to do.

Calling us Kool Aid drinkers is just plain insulting, IMHO. Many of us have already explained that FPs are not a given, and KRR is one attraction that is closed for FP during even major busy times like NYE and July 4th. It might be inconvenient for guests, and that is a fair point. But there is a way to vent without calling others who are trying to better explain Disney policy, names.

I do feel badly that the OP was inconvenienced. I hope that she was able to have a good day today, despite dealing with another broken attraction. Seems like there has been lots of that happening lately too...

Tiger

 

[Lintasare]

I just want to address a couple points on this thread.

First off yes the Times Guide said FP would be running the day the OP was visiting. However the Times Guides are not printed day of and are usually printed at least a week in advance. Anything could have happened and thus the times guide would be incorrect and they can't reprint them.

Also FastPasses are not part of your admission. They are a free extra. There are plenty of people who go to the parks without paying admission and who use FastPass. Best example I can use...CMs entering on their ID or guests of CMs using a comp pass or Main Gate pass. They don't pay for admission and can still use FastPass.

Buying an admission ticket is only a guarantee of admission. Nothing else.

 

[jonmar]

Totally good point - perhaps OP has a special needs child, or, another important reason why waiting in line is difficult?

But, I don't think name calling is appropriate. Just because many of us know Disney policy, it doesn't mean that we don't care. On the contrary...I've contacted Disney many times over the years for both postive praise and concerns. I do so for my benefit, as well as the benefit of other guests. I care beyond measure as I have spent thousands of dollars on DVC; therefore, I do care when a guest feels inconvenienced, or, a Disney attraction is out of commission. But as many of us have explained, it's all about expectations. I have been at Disney when the park was closed due to seriously inclement weather, parks were closed for crowd level 10s and monorails and other major attractions were broken down. It happens, and there is nothing much that can be done, except find something else to do.

Calling us Kool Aid drinkers is just plain insulting, IMHO. Many of us have already explained that FPs are not a given, and KRR is one attraction that is closed for FP during even major busy times like NYE and July 4th. It might be inconvenient for guests, and that is a fair point. But there is a way to vent without calling others who are trying to better explain Disney policy, names.

I do feel badly that the OP was inconvenienced. I hope that she was able to have a good day today, despite dealing with another broken attraction. Seems like there has been lots of that happening lately too...

Tiger

Please reread my posting. I specifically indicated that the name calling was directed at those who chose to be rude to me, not those that simply disagreed with me. If you go back and read this thread, you will find postings calling me names. In any event, it wasn't directed at you or anyone else that responded politely. I'm sorry you missed that part.

 

[jonmar]

Wow indeed. I don't think you have to be a sycophant to think that a 40 minute wait for a beloved ride is not that big of a deal. There's no evidence anyone lied to you. They may have been mistaken. There's no sinister plot to derail your vacation. Nobody here is revelling in your misery despite our lack of "broader horizons". On the contrary, we're kind of confused by it.

Quit being so dramatic, and please forgive me if I don't accept your legal opinion on what constitutes evidence.

 

[dqpowell]

First off yes the Times Guide said FP would be running the day the OP was visiting. However the Times Guides are not printed day of and are usually printed at least a week in advance. Anything could have happened and thus the times guide would be incorrect and they can't reprint them.

It doesn't matter if they're printed 30 seconds before they distribute them or a year. If it says "Here's what's available to you today," then you can decide whether or not to use your no-hopping park day there or not. If you make that decision based on what's printed, and then walk in and find out it's not available, it is not unreasonable to be irritated by that. And it's then too late to change your plans and visit another park, because your non-hopping ticket has already been run through the turnstile.

Also FastPasses are not part of your admission. They are a free extra. There are plenty of people who go to the parks without paying admission and who use FastPass. Best example I can use...CMs entering on their ID or guests of CMs using a comp pass or Main Gate pass. They don't pay for admission and can still use FastPass.

This is nonsense reasoning. Disney markets fastpass as one of many reasons why people should visit. There aren't two magic lists: 1. Things included in your admission and 2. Things we're giving you for free, but are not included in your admission. This is nothing but rationalization and speculation in defense of Disney on this particular issue.

Buying an admission ticket is only a guarantee of admission. Nothing else.

Nonsense. If you walk past the turnstiles, you have been admitted. By your reasoning, it would be perfectly acceptable if every single ride and attraction was shut down, because after all, all you were guaranteed was admission. When companies are investigated for fraud or bait-and-switch schemes, one of the primary criteria is what a consumer might reasonably expect based on advertising by the company vs. what was actually delivered.

Fastpass is not the primary reason why a consumer would choose to visit AK, and so there is obviously some leeway there for them to choose to run it or not. But make no mistake -- anything Disney promotes or advertises as a feature of the experience IS ABSOLUTELY part of the admission price, because the admission price covers reasonable consumer expectations. Listing it as a feature for that day in the Times Guide makes it a reasonable expectation on the part of the consumer.

In the end, I agree that the lack of fastpass availability at that one attraction isn't the end of the world. But Disney (including the CMs the OP talked to) could have handled it a lot better.

David

 

[doconeill]

I have one more comment on this, about whether Fastpass is a "right of admission" type discussion...

Yes, Disney DOES advertise that I can use Fastpass as part of my admission. Nowhere does it say on what attractions I can use it on AS PART of that advertisement.

The Times Guide is a general guide as to where you can use it, but as discussed ad nauseum, is subject to change.

If Fastpass was unavailable ACROSS THE PARK, then I think you could say something you paid for as part of your admission was unavailable to you and devalued it. There is no indication that was true, or has ever been true, since the inception of Fastpass.

Now, if you planned your whole park day on being able to use Fastpass on something in particular, and used a non-hopping day to do it, and found out it wasn't available and was going to mess up your whole day somehow and you would have never gone to that park otherwise, fine - go to Guest Relations right away and explain the situation, and they just might comp you a 1-day ticket to enter another park. But if you take advantage of everything anyways and tried to do it later, I wouldn't expect anything.

I personally can't envision planning to eat a whole non-hopping park day on a ticket that would be messed up in such a manner, however, unless there were MAJOR problems at the park that day.

 

[bwilcox]

I think it is totally reasonable to expect what is printed is available, to be available. It doesn't matter how far in advance the guide was printed: if Disney hands you literature saying here is what is available, and it is not available, then that is false advertising.

 

[dqpowell]

Yes, Disney DOES advertise that I can use Fastpass as part of my admission. Nowhere does it say on what attractions I can use it on AS PART of that advertisement.

The Times Guide is a general guide as to where you can use it, but as discussed ad nauseum, is subject to change.

Yes, but everything is subject to change, if you read all the fine print. That fine print wouldn't excuse Disney if they failed to deliver on too many things at once. There's a legal term for this, on the tip of my tongue, but I can't remember it right now.

Let me be absolutely clear that I'm not saying the lack of fastpasses on that one attraction would make for a valid legal case against Disney. They consistently deliver enough of the things they advertise/promise that no reasonable expectations have been violated on any given day.

I'm just responding to the poster who claimed that the only thing Disney has to deliver on is "admission," implying that everything else is merely a "free extra."

And without quoting the rest of it, I agree with everything else you included in your post.

David

 

[doconeill]

I think it is totally reasonable to expect what is printed is available, to be available. It doesn't matter how far in advance the guide was printed: if Disney hands you literature saying here is what is available, and it is not available, then that is false advertising.

"false advertising" is a bit strong - and legally they are already covered by the "fine print". It's fine to expect it...but you've also got to expect that sometimes there are things outside of anyone's control.

I could go to DL right now, to see Fantasmic!, and fully expect this monstrous dragon to appear and terrorize me and threaten to eat Mickey, because that's what all the videos, pictures, advertisements, etc. show. I'd be very disappointed, since it had a catastrophic failure last weekend and is likely to be MIA for many months. I can complain, and if I'm doing it to the right people, and do it in such a manner that they are sympathetic to me, they might be willing to compensate. Of course, the DIS is not the right people

 

[dqpowell]

I think it is totally reasonable to expect what is printed is available, to be available. It doesn't matter how far in advance the guide was printed: if Disney hands you literature saying here is what is available, and it is not available, then that is false advertising.

As others have pointed out, the lack of that one thing (fastpasses) as it applies to only one ride (Kali) is not enough of a breach for any reasonable court to find against them. They're still delivering 99% of the things they said they would in their advertising, and they did have a disclaimer about how the availability of any particular thing is subject to change.

My primary quibble is the way they handled it. We wouldn't even be discussing it if they just told the OP "We're sorry, but there are technical difficulties with the Kali fastpass machines today."

David

 

[jonmar]

I have one more comment on this, about whether Fastpass is a "right of admission" type discussion...

Yes, Disney DOES advertise that I can use Fastpass as part of my admission. Nowhere does it say on what attractions I can use it on AS PART of that advertisement.

The Times Guide is a general guide as to where you can use it, but as discussed ad nauseum, is subject to change.

If Fastpass was unavailable ACROSS THE PARK, then I think you could say something you paid for as part of your admission was unavailable to you and devalued it. There is no indication that was true, or has ever been true, since the inception of Fastpass.

Now, if you planned your whole park day on being able to use Fastpass on something in particular, and used a non-hopping day to do it, and found out it wasn't available and was going to mess up your whole day somehow and you would have never gone to that park otherwise, fine - go to Guest Relations right away and explain the situation, and they just might comp you a 1-day ticket to enter another park. But if you take advantage of everything anyways and tried to do it later, I wouldn't expect anything.

I personally can't envision planning to eat a whole non-hopping park day on a ticket that would be messed up in such a manner, however, unless there were MAJOR problems at the park that day.

Actually, when you go to Disney's website to purchase your tickets, there is a whole page explaining Fast Pass and the rides it is good for. At this point, prior to purchase, I can't seem to find any 'subject to availability or change'.
http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/guest-services/fast-pass/?closeDialog=mdvDialog
Again, I'm the first to admit it wasn't the end of the world. It just could have been handled differently.

 

[doconeill]

Yes, but everything is subject to change, if you read all the fine print. That fine print wouldn't excuse Disney if they failed to deliver on too many things at once. There's a legal term for this, on the tip of my tongue, but I can't remember it right now.

True, and I also can't quite think of the term for it, but it is a subsection of fraud laws I believe, and falls under the "reasonable expectations" clauses.

If every attraction were shut down, then Disney would likely be liable for costs refunds to guests as they did not provide reasonable expectations of availability of what is advertised. And they could be found liable for the full 1-day cost of admission regardless of it was the 10th day on their ticket. But it would also I believe have to be a situation where they clearly did not state the case. For instance, if every attraction in AK was closed and it was nothing more than a walking nature tour, but they didn't tell you that in advance, they have a problem. But if they said months in advance, "All attractions at AK will be closed on this day", and before letting you in the park they told you that, and you went in anyways, oh well. This is an extreme case of "park closing early for a hard ticket/private event" case - the park hours are advertised, you can't then complain that the park closed early and you don't have a park hopper so you should get a free park pass to another park.

But we're talking about "never happened, never will" scenarios now.

 

[doconeill]

Actually, when you go to Disney's website to purchase your tickets, there is a whole page explaining Fast Pass and the rides it is good for. At this point, prior to purchase, I can't seem to find any 'subject to availability or change'.
http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/guest-services/fast-pass/?closeDialog=mdvDialog
Again, I'm the first to admit it wasn't the end of the world. It just could have been handled differently.

One thing you'll learn is that Disney's web sites are often incorrect anyways. There are various attractions that offer Fastpass at least occasionally that aren't listed on that page, but if you check the attraction pages themselves they are listed. There are also various clauses in there that aren't correct either. I have often been a critic of Disney's web sites.

You could read the section that says to look at the return time clocks, "If the return time is one that works for you..." If a return time of "never" is OK with you, then you could try and get a FP

 

[jonmar]

One thing you'll learn is that Disney's web sites are often incorrect anyways. There are various attractions that offer Fastpass at least occasionally that aren't listed on that page, but if you check the attraction pages themselves they are listed. There are also various clauses in there that aren't correct either. I have often been a critic of Disney's web sites.

You could read the section that says to look at the return time clocks, "If the return time is one that works for you..." If a return time of "never" is OK with you, then you could try and get a FP

No Kidding! I have read enough posts telling me that Fast Pass is a throw in etc. It is advertised as a perk 'included in your Walt Disney World Theme Park admission'. Not some on a whim service offered from time to time, when they feel like it. The word 'included', in my mind is a clear advertising tactic over Universal Express which of course, is a cost in addition to park entrance.

 

[Tiger926]

Please reread my posting. I specifically indicated that the name calling was directed at those who chose to be rude to me, not those that simply disagreed with me. If you go back and read this thread, you will find postings calling me names. In any event, it wasn't directed at you or anyone else that responded politely. I'm sorry you missed that part.

I don't need to re-read it...I'm an English teacher, so I'm good with the reading part. I didn't take offence personally, I just stand by my feelings that name calling to anyone, should not be part of a message board. I just think it devalues the opinions that are being shared.

I'm sorry you feel people were being rude to you...that's not cool.

It is a heated issue, as there are many factors that go into this subject.

I really hope that you have a glorious park day tomorrow, Tiger