Fast Pass +

[SusanWasHere]

Have to agree with a lot of you PPers.

I am really worried about FP+ and its impact on our vacations. We honeymooned at Disney couple years ago, and are pretty much making it our yearly "thing" so, I thought, DVC was it for us. For our upcoming trip, I was super stoked to buy DVC, even though we have some other expenses going on this year, I figured, in the long run, it would be worth it. Esp if we bought resale.

Anyway, the FP+ thing has completely put us off buying DVC until we see how it pans out. Instead, we are renting points for our upcoming trip, still getting the DVC experience, but, still not the same either

We are really worried about things we just don't have info on yet.

1) will it be a hard limit of 3 per day, or will you be able to get additional FPs on the day of ?
-current testers have said they have been able to use both, BUT, we don't know if that will still be true in full roll out

2) how much availability will there be and how far out are you going to have to book it ?
-how many FPs will be available for the popular rides, how many people will be on at the 60 day mark booking it up ?
-at least paying cash for a room, if at your 60 day mark you can't book the features you want, you can just cancel your reservation and get your money back. But if you have to book at 11 or 7 months out to get the resort and room category you want, you are locked in a long way out. Waiting until 60 days before your trip to see if you are actually going to enjoy your trip the way you want, not acceptable.
-The BIGGEST proponents of this system (including a PP) keep saying stuff like, "oh this is great, I don't have to do RD and rush for FPs anymore. I can now go into the park when I want to and do what I want when I want." or "We love this since we like to go in the afternoon (or evening) and now we will be able to FP whatever we want" .... Except, this is based on availability !!!! Don't they think everyone else (esp rope droppers) are going to want to book afternoon and evening FPs ? There are also a bunch of RDers who are saying this is going to be great because they can "hit rope drop, ride until 11 with no standby waits, then go back to the resort for a few hours and come back in the afternoon/eve for our FP+s"
-Both of these groups of people can't win from this new system. Both might in fact lose. Afternoon/eve folks might find a whole new flood of people booking up their FPs 60 days in advance, and Rope Droppers might find a bunch of people, after not being able to get FPs for afternoon/eve take the only slots they have left, the morning, and even at RD FP lines will be slowing down standby.

3) How are they going to deal with issues during the trip. What happens if it storms hard on Monday ? Do I simply lose all my FPs ? (probably) But what if Monday was our MK day ? Do I now just not go to MK on my trip ? Or are they going to say "well, standby is still an option", because sorry, that's crap.
-there are just SO many things that can happen ON a trip which change your schedule, kids sick, weather, tiredness, maintenance of attractions, etc. FP+ seems to -really- limit your flexibility while you are ON your trip.
-testers seem to be able to adjust their plans quite well, but the system isn't fully up and running, there are only a very very few people on the FP+ system, for all we know there are unlimited FP+s (up to 3 a day pp) for attractions during testing. This will change once its fully rolled out, each attraction has a maximum capacity, and maximum FP+ capacity.

4) Will it be a tiered system, will values get 3, mods 4, Deluxe 5 ???
-lots of rumors about this, even though we would likely benefit from the system, I still don't think this would be something good to employ. Just not fair to the children and families who save all they can to afford a once in a lifetime (for many) trip, only to have a "less magical" trip because of where they can afford to stay.

5) When is this going to go live completely and when are we actually going to get some straight answers, not just Disney spin ? I think its already insane that people are having to book trips, not knowing what the conditions of those trips are going to be.

Anyway, just a few of my concerns, for now we will rent DVC, if the new system does not detract from our vacation, great, if it improves it (and I have seen nothing that suggests it will), AWESOME. If it negatively impacts our trip, we not only will not buy DVC, but might just have to change our yearly "thing" as well

You should copy and paste this into an email and send it to Disney and DVC. They need to hear it!!! Not just from the Kool-Aid drinkers that think everything is magic and pixie dust. They need to know there are people that will stay away bc of the changes. Your points are awesome, and I totally agree with you!

 

[brertoad]

I'm SMH a little. Fast passes and Fast pass+ are perks. They do not have to do this at all for anyone. In theory they can just make everyone equal and wait in line without any front line access. Am I somehow missing something. It seems to me after using FP+ and the magic band that this is a huge improvement for us personally. Can anyone explain what exactly is different?

Are you guys park commandos going really early and getting like 6-8 paper FPs a day?

Are you guys riding the popular rides over and over again?

Just trying to get a little perspective here.

From my point of view getting 3 FP+ via smartphone MDE app is easy and convenient, and seems pretty fair to me.

And to me DVC ownership and value doesn't tie in together with Fast Passes.
You are saving on your hotel accomodations.

 

[Doug7856]

I'm SMH a little. Fast passes and Fast pass+ are perks. They do not have to do this at all for anyone. In theory they can just make everyone equal and wait in line without any front line access. Am I somehow missing something.

I don't see FP as a "perk" but a part of the service we've purchased as part of our admission. I do agree that Disney can and obviously will change it.

I'm a planner and love the concept of MagicBands and FP+, but the uncertainty when we have thousands of dollars on the line (tickets, airfare, ADR's, etc.) for a vacation is stressful...probably goes along with the type A personality

As a consumer, I get to choose. If a member chooses to sell their DVC because they don't like the plan, that's fine by me.

My biggest problem with Disney right now is that they seem to be "withdrawing" value instead of adding magic. Higher prices are expected, but the price increases over the last five years seem excessive to me when compared to the market. The recent round of food increases, limits on TIW, almost shocking ticket price increases is jaw dropping, reduced EMH, shorter summer hours, etc. Have you looked at a comparison of ticket prices over the past 5 years? In return we have a Princess focused Fantasyland (with the mine roller coaster on the way) and not much else.

My continued relationship with Disney as a company is dependent on a mutual benefit that I'm seeing less of right now. That's just my opinion, your may see it differently.

We love our Disney vacations and I'm sure our upcoming one will be wonderful, I just think the Disney organization has forgotten WHY it's founder created the magic known as Disneyland.

 

[brertoad]

My biggest problem with Disney right now is that they seem to be "withdrawing" value instead of adding magic. Higher prices are expected, but the price increases over the last five years seem excessive to me when compared to the market. The recent round of food increases, limits on TIW, almost shocking ticket price increases is jaw dropping, reduced EMH, shorter summer hours, etc. Have you looked at a comparison of ticket prices over the past 5 years?

No argument here. I completely agree with these points/problems you listed above: increased prices, reduced benefits, reduced EMH, limits on TIW coming next year *BIG DISAPPOINTMENT*. Even with the TIW card everything is so overpriced. I can't believe they are taking away V&A.

 

[OneMoreTry]

Many of the experiences posted here reflect some of the real concerns I have had about the FP+.

One of my biggest questions: How soon are the FP times going to book up? Will I be able to get a FP time 1 day in advance? 2? 7? 30? etc? If I have to book a FP more than a couple days in advance (really even more than one) I will be upset. We don't decide on our park schedule until we get to WDW. We tend to take it one day at a time depending on how we feel and what we want to do each day. It would be nice to not have to run around the parks collecting fast passes, but I don't think it will be any better sitting at a computer trying to figure out what my whole family will want to do at a specific time weeks in advance.

I hope I'm not as disappointed as some of the others on this thread. We will see in a few weeks.

 

[Shaden]

I'm SMH a little. Fast passes and Fast pass+ are perks. They do not have to do this at all for anyone. In theory they can just make everyone equal and wait in line without any front line access. Am I somehow missing something. It seems to me after using FP+ and the magic band that this is a huge improvement for us personally. Can anyone explain what exactly is different?

Are you guys park commandos going really early and getting like 6-8 paper FPs a day?

Are you guys riding the popular rides over and over again?

Just trying to get a little perspective here.

From my point of view getting 3 FP+ via smartphone MDE app is easy and convenient, and seems pretty fair to me.

And to me DVC ownership and value doesn't tie in together with Fast Passes.
You are saving on your hotel accomodations.

I very much understand your perspective, but it is not one that I, or any of the 10 or so people we like to travel with to WDW share.

To us, Fastpass is something that Disney must provide, its part of the value of Disney World. Fast Passes allow us to experience WDW in a way WE enjoy. We generally avoid standby lines, and never wait more then 30 mins for a ride. We go in lower season, and use FPs to increase efficiency and enjoyment.

If FPs weren't available anymore, I am not sure that we would go to Disney anymore, almost certainly not every year.

If I were someone who, after several trips going to Disney, purchased DVC in expectation of what their trips would be like, investing thousands of dollars, and then Disney changed the FP system in a way which changed how THEY like to vacation, I think they would be right to be upset.

I mean, its within Disney's right to do so of course, but people are allowed to like what they like. Heck, Disney could pave over the pools in the resorts if they wanted to. Some people wouldn't care, other people would be up in arms. Both are justified in their feelings.

For US, FP makes a huge impact on our trip, if it goes, we likely go as well. And I am not about to drop 10-30 Thousand dollars on something, without knowing how its going to work ...

 

[artesian]

Are you guys park commandos going really early and getting like 6-8 paper FPs a day? 6-8 no but I know for sure we are over 3 per day

Are you guys riding the popular rides over and over again? Absolutley. My DD love the do SpaceM 2-3 times or Spashm the same

Just trying to get a little perspective here.

I understand it's a perk and one that has been around a long time. Many of us utilize it to it's fullest. Now they are telling my we are cutting your perk in half and you need to plan you vacations way in advance. I think the planning ahead is the biggest turn off for me. I don't go in saying these parks on these days. Those always change for one reason or another. My issue is for some reason I do change a day or two during my trips all the previous panning and scheduling is for naught.

 

[jade1]

We would settle for even one resereved afternoon or eve headliner FP+ each day over the current system. 3 or more is just insanely better for us.

We do travel peak though, so many headliner FP's are gone by noon, and waits are over 100 minutes. We don't do am parks except an occasional rd.

DVC resorts are so great, esp in the winter, we enjoy them and many other am activities more than stampedes at the parks. We end with a night show and also close the parks, usually midnight to 3AM.

 

[Simba's Mom]

I'm also very unhappy/uncomfortable/confused/all of the above about it. Part of it is just my not liking change at WDW. Hey, I'm still upset that I can't get a hand stamp when I leave the parks now! And there seems to be just too many unanswered questions about a system that's supposed to be up and running soon (can you say cl**ter****) And I don'tlike that you can only use FP in one park per day-maybe. See my previous concern on that (is this an unanswered question?)

 

[BirdsOfPreyDave]

I haven't really gotten spun up about FP+ one way or the other. To be honest, we don't use the current system that much -- especially since they've started enforcing the end times. I've never appreciated the way the current system forces you to walk to a particular section of the park twice (once to get the FP and once to use it). So I do like the aspect of being able to get FP+ scheduled in advance. It probably won't change the % of times we simply let them expire without using them, though. (I just won't have a pocket full of unused tickets as evidence any more.)

Another thing to add to the Pro/Con list in the original post is that many more rides will now have FP capability. (I'll leave it to individual readers to decide if they consider that a pro or a con.)

I have mixed emotions about some of the "wierd" things they're doing with FP+. For example, Be Our Guest does not take reservations for lunch -- but you can get a FP+ for it. What the heck? Why not just use the existing ADR system? The advanced meal ordering is neat, but again, why make this part of a FP+ system instead of the ADR system?

 

[Msmithmd]

Couple of observations.

First, when the original FP system came out there was much gnashing of teeth- and people screamed and cried about how they'd never go again if Disney made a system where some users got to "jump in line". And yet here we are in 2013 with all-time record park attendance, despite the huge gate price increases Doug correctly observed.

Second, one of the objectively adverse effects of the current FP system is that it hurts uninformed first-time park goers. We have all heard the horror tales from coworkers or friends that did their one trip to Disney on spring break or Christmas and didn't use FP, only to get on a couple rides and shows total in a day. Those people had a very bad experience spending a ton of money, and won't be back.

My analysis is that Disney cares more about these newbie park goers than us veterans. It remains to be seen whether they will modify the 3-per-day rule, but I really think they are doing this to level the playing field somewhat between the "hardcore tourer" folks who have commented above, and the newbie family on a first trip that has trouble finding Soarin in the first place... Disney knows that most of their hardcore audience will whine a bit and then come back anyway. They want to improve the experience for the families they've been losing as "second time" repeat customers.

Now, am I a hardcore tourer?- you betcha.

I just think we all should consider the corporate motivation behind the new system and accept it for what it is. Disney isn't doing this just to make some people angry; they are doing it to try to improve their business.

Final thought- no one has mentioned to this point what would truly make the park experience better for all- markedly increased capacity. Add four e-ticket rides and two extra major shows to EACH of the parks over a couple years, and suddenly the waits for everything improve. Yet this doesn't even seem to be part of the conversation. I would submit to you all that we are overly worrying about the wrong problem. Granted, FP+ is the "problem" that Disney has offered us to worry about, but in my opinion it distracts from the real issue- which is too little capacity for too many park guests. Reshuffling the lines or the way we book/avoid those lines doesn't fix the underlying problem...

 

[erionm]

And I don'tlike that you can only use FP in one park per day-maybe. See my previous concern on that (is this an unanswered question?)

This is covered in the FastPass+ Section of the Park Experience Terms & Conditions:

You may make FastPass+ selections for one park per day. You may only select and use a FastPass+ selection for a particular attraction, entertainment or restaurant experience once per day.

http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/media/park-experience-terms-and-conditions.html

 

[jade1]

Another thing to add to the Pro/Con list in the original post is that many more rides will now have FP capability. (I'll leave it to individual readers to decide if they consider that a pro or a con.)

I have mixed emotions about some of the "wierd" things they're doing with FP+. For example, Be Our Guest does not take reservations for lunch -- but you can get a FP+ for it. What the heck? Why not just use the existing ADR system? The advanced meal ordering is neat, but again, why make this part of a FP+ system instead of the ADR system?

I think you answered your own question. Many think its is well worth using one of the FP+ selections for it. I think they did this to use more FP+'s to spread them around. ETTWB is another-super worth it for some as is the new L Mermaid. This leaves more of the mountain FP+'s available for others.

But I can see using one day at MK for the mountain FP+'s, and another for char type stuff, then another (out of 7 ex) for the new mine train and 2 mountains. Then use RD another day to do what you want over or missed before an EPCOT eve FP+ selections.

 

[jade1]

Final thought- no one has mentioned to this point what would truly make the park experience better for all- markedly increased capacity. Add four e-ticket rides and two extra major shows to EACH of the parks over a couple years, and suddenly the waits for everything improve. Yet this doesn't even seem to be part of the conversation. I would submit to you all that we are overly worrying about the wrong problem. Granted, FP+ is the "problem" that Disney has offered us to worry about, but in my opinion it distracts from the real issue- which is too little capacity for too many park guests. Reshuffling the lines or the way we book/avoid those lines doesn't fix the underlying problem...

I'm all for that.

And actually think they will do that. This system will be even better then because they can allow 6 FP+s per day.

Adding the extra attractions/shows will drop waits from what 100 minutes to 60? I would still want a FP+ for that.

 

[Shaden]

Second, one of the objectively adverse effects of the current FP system is that it hurts uninformed first-time park goers. We have all heard the horror tales from coworkers or friends that did their one trip to Disney on spring break or Christmas and didn't use FP, only to get on a couple rides and shows total in a day. Those people had a very bad experience spending a ton of money, and won't be back.

My analysis is that Disney cares more about these newbie park goers than us veterans. It remains to be seen whether they will modify the 3-per-day rule, but I really think they are doing this to level the playing field somewhat between the "hardcore tourer" folks who have commented above, and the newbie family on a first trip that has trouble finding Soarin in the first place... Disney knows that most of their hardcore audience will whine a bit and then come back anyway. They want to improve the experience for the families they've been losing as "second time" repeat customers.

Now, am I a hardcore tourer?- you betcha.

I just think we all should consider the corporate motivation behind the new system and accept it for what it is. Disney isn't doing this just to make some people angry; they are doing it to try to improve their business.

Final thought- no one has mentioned to this point what would truly make the park experience better for all- markedly increased capacity. Add four e-ticket rides and two extra major shows to EACH of the parks over a couple years, and suddenly the waits for everything improve. Yet this doesn't even seem to be part of the conversation. I would submit to you all that we are overly worrying about the wrong problem. Granted, FP+ is the "problem" that Disney has offered us to worry about, but in my opinion it distracts from the real issue- which is too little capacity for too many park guests. Reshuffling the lines or the way we book/avoid those lines doesn't fix the underlying problem...

Ok, now here I am going to have to disagree, and then STRONGLY agree with you

I don't think this system serves the newbie better, far from it. I have actually witnessed and participated in informing newbies about the FP system. With the current system, newbies who see the FP lines, can literally just ask what FP is, or how they get one, etc, and have it explained and, for the most part, they are on par with anyone else. Sure they might not know about RDing and then using FPs around 10 or 11, and might not have the best strategies, BUT, they can look and see Space mountain has a 1 hour SB line, grab and FP and return later.

The New system however, if they don't know whats going on, they are going to get there on the day, and then if they ask, try to go online or use a kiosk, and will now be 60 days behind the people who have already booked up the best slots of the day. OR, potentially if Disney reallllllly pushes this via emails and contacts with guests, they might use the quick picks (which from what I hear are terrible) or wont have a clue which attractions they need FPs for, end up FPing peter pan, lilo and stich, and Small world. And again, show up on the day, realize there is no standby on those rides, but all the options to switch will already be full. In fact, in that circumstance, I would be even MORE frustrated as a Disney newbie then under the current situation, knowing people had a 60 day jump on me, and that I can't get the good FPs.

A lot of how this all pans out is all about capacity, how many FPs for headliners are available, how many are actually available per day for prebooking, and if you can use more then 3 same day (which I don't think you will be able to). And we really just don't have enough information about this yet.

For your last point, I couldn't agree more. If the Disney spin had a shred of truth to it, that they want us to enjoy our trips more, spend less time in line, and ensure that you get to experience the most important attractions, the real plan would be to expand the parks, add attractions, but keep entrance numbers where they are. Of course, they don't actually care about this, all they care about is the metric which creates the greatest return on their investment. There is an equilibrium at some point where people will be less happy, but still pay a large sum of money, and Disney will have lower overhead. They are trying to get there. Not to the place where we all get more value for our dollar then expected.

 

[SusanWasHere]

Just wanted to fill in on what's been going on since I wrote last. I had gotten both of my surveys for our August trip, from VWL and BCV. On the BCV I graded some things as not perfect that had to do with my actual stay at the BC. Issues at the pool, some dangerous things that happened, and a couple of other things. I also marked lower about not caring so much about being able to tap to pay (I'm not so lazy that pulling a room card out is a problem for me, lol) and also about the poor wifi. Of course, the survey only asked me my concerns about tap to pay and the wifi. Gave me no space to comment about the things that happened at the pool. This annoyed me LOL

So at the end of the survey, there was an email address and I sent a lengthy email about the issues at the BC and also my feelings about the whole new system having to do with uber planning and being a DVC member. I got a call back about a week later and spent 30 minutes on the phone. The person told me the best thing to do is to have it in writing. He said when something is in writing, it is always brought into the equation and looked at. He said just talking to friends or even forums won't make a difference. He said they have a lot of letters coming in - both positive and negative about FP+. He said that is how anything gets done - it needs to be in writing.

He continued to say to keep writing with any experiences I have, either good or bad. It's the only way to get results. He said I had a lot of valid points and it's not the first he's heard it. So just to let people know - if you are concerned or had a bad experience or feel stuff is affecting the quality of your membership - let it be heard!! I'm always the first to put positive things into writing and on the surveys, and this was the first trip I ever had negatives. But I'm glad I did it and will continue to do so. I've invested way too much $$ into this to just sit back and let things turn bad. Hopefully all will work out where everyone is happy. (although I doubt it LOL)