Fast Pass Question

[marybrat]

I recently read that if you miss the ending time for your FP you can use it later in the day. Really?

 

[Robo]

I recently read that if you miss the ending time for your FP you can use it later in the day. Really?

Yep.

It is Disney policy to accept "expired" FP on the same day that they were issued.

 

[marybrat]

Wow! That's great to know. No more running across the park to make it just in time. Thanks for verifying this for me!

 

[PrincessTiffany]

I recently read that if you miss the ending time for your FP you can use it later in the day. Really?

Yep, up until the park closes on that day. We used a number of our Fastpasses past their "window" on our September trip last year and it worked out great!

 

[Satisfactualfam]

1 CM told us we couldn't the fastpasses because it was an hour past the time. Another CM overheard her & came over to let us through...

Maybe the first CM was new...

 

[RMulieri]

They have been known to reject fastpasses past their return window on Soarin', and I imagine now Toy story mania. They have rejected mine on both Soarin and Splash, but it was peak season and the park was jammed.i have heard of others thought that were told no at Soarin.But officially /unofficially disney does accept them.

 

[Belle1962]

It will depend on many variables: how crowded the fp line already is; the CM on duty; etc. While it does happen (and sometimes frequently) that you can use an expired FP, be prepared just in case you are turned away (i.e. get into the standby line, be willing to walk away without causing a scene, hassling the CM, etc.)

 

[PrincessTiffany]

It will depend on many variables: how crowded the fp line already is; the CM on duty; etc. While it does happen (and sometimes frequently) that you can use an expired FP, be prepared just in case you are turned away (i.e. get into the standby line, be willing to walk away without causing a scene, hassling the CM, etc.)

This is my favorite post about using Fastpass "late" or past the window:

Originally Posted by Diser Dawgdad:
WOW. This just always seems to rear it's ugly head. Now we have people wanting the "rules" enforced. Where do I start??? I always try to respond to these posts because I do feel like I have some worthwhile info that comes from actual Disney management (see below). First of all, if you don't believe you should use the FP's past the time, then don't. The fact is this: If I choose to not ride during the 2 hour window, it only means that someone else will fill my magical spot on the ride (someone from the standby line). If I did enter during the 2 hr time, that same person (theoretically) will ride AFTER me. You see, when I use my FP does not affect 1)the number of people in the park, or 2)the number of people who choose to ride a certain ride. This is not a rationalization, it is just basic theme park logistics. FP's do not expire (on that day, of course) and I know that for a fact.

My cousin, Scott Bowden works in Anaheim as a Senior Vice President in the Department of Planning, Revenue Management and Strategic Pricing (how would you like that on your business card?) We have spoken so many times on this subject that many times when I call him, the first thing he says is "Wassup, Fastpasses don't expire"

Remember, FP's are not intended to move you to the front of the line, they are to allow you to spend your waiting time somewhere else (like buying food or merchandise). Disney is a business and people can not spend their money in line. FP is a win-win idea that reduces your standing in line time. When you use it does not affect the flow of the ride or the dynamics of the wait for ANYONE else. Now, there is one more thing. When we adopted our child from China 2 years ago, one of the other fathers in our travel group works for the company in Buffalo that (among other things) worked with Disney on the design and implementation of the fastpass. Trust me when I say that the idea was not to reduce your wait time, but to reduce your "non-buying" time in the parks. It is not an accident that the Fastpass does not specifically prohibit late arrivals. In the original patent for the fastpass (and machine), there is a specific statement that details this "late" use. It is not only OK, it has zero bearing on the flow of the park or the wait times for anyone. Yes, you could argue that if everyone held their fastpass for 1 hour then flooded the ride, there may be some fluctuations in wait times, but that is simply not realistic. Additionally, if everyone did that, many more standby riders than normal would get to ride earlier. Remember, how or when you use your FP does not affect the number of people in the park or how many people ride the ride.

Fastpasses DO NOT expire. If a castmember tells you otherwise, politely ask them to speak with a supervisor - you are not asking for a favor, you are asking for something that is specifically allowed under the fastpass.

Fastpasses DO NOT expire.

 

[RMulieri]

This is my favorite post about using Fastpass "late" or past the window:

Originally Posted by Diser Dawgdad:
WOW. This just always seems to rear it's ugly head. Now we have people wanting the "rules" enforced. Where do I start??? I always try to respond to these posts because I do feel like I have some worthwhile info that comes from actual Disney management (see below). First of all, if you don't believe you should use the FP's past the time, then don't. The fact is this: If I choose to not ride during the 2 hour window, it only means that someone else will fill my magical spot on the ride (someone from the standby line). If I did enter during the 2 hr time, that same person (theoretically) will ride AFTER me. You see, when I use my FP does not affect 1)the number of people in the park, or 2)the number of people who choose to ride a certain ride. This is not a rationalization, it is just basic theme park logistics. FP's do not expire (on that day, of course) and I know that for a fact.

My cousin, Scott Bowden works in Anaheim as a Senior Vice President in the Department of Planning, Revenue Management and Strategic Pricing (how would you like that on your business card?) We have spoken so many times on this subject that many times when I call him, the first thing he says is "Wassup, Fastpasses don't expire"

Remember, FP's are not intended to move you to the front of the line, they are to allow you to spend your waiting time somewhere else (like buying food or merchandise). Disney is a business and people can not spend their money in line. FP is a win-win idea that reduces your standing in line time. When you use it does not affect the flow of the ride or the dynamics of the wait for ANYONE else. Now, there is one more thing. When we adopted our child from China 2 years ago, one of the other fathers in our travel group works for the company in Buffalo that (among other things) worked with Disney on the design and implementation of the fastpass. Trust me when I say that the idea was not to reduce your wait time, but to reduce your "non-buying" time in the parks. It is not an accident that the Fastpass does not specifically prohibit late arrivals. In the original patent for the fastpass (and machine), there is a specific statement that details this "late" use. It is not only OK, it has zero bearing on the flow of the park or the wait times for anyone. Yes, you could argue that if everyone held their fastpass for 1 hour then flooded the ride, there may be some fluctuations in wait times, but that is simply not realistic. Additionally, if everyone did that, many more standby riders than normal would get to ride earlier. Remember, how or when you use your FP does not affect the number of people in the park or how many people ride the ride.

Fastpasses DO NOT expire. If a castmember tells you otherwise, politely ask them to speak with a supervisor - you are not asking for a favor, you are asking for something that is specifically allowed under the fastpass.

Fastpasses DO NOT expire.

That may be the caseand policy.But I HAVE been turned away on 2 different occasions.I am sure I could have argued the point,but I seriously did not feel like having to resort to an argument, especially since the people behind me were already annoyed that I questioned the cm, and they were stuck behind me.

 

[Cinders1]

So what your saying is, fastpasses don't expire?

Just kidding. I have to admit I am just a tad nervous about using fastpasses when we return in the evening but, I after reading your post I am going to.
Hey this is my 100th post!

 

[jstehman]

Right on PrincessTiffany!!!

I have been doing this many trips since FP came out. I have never had a problem on any trip, on any day, in any park, on any attraction.

Using FP in this manner (and accumulating multiple FPs at the same time) is one of the most effective strategies for navigating the parks during busy times!!!

 

[beachboys]

FP question... so you collect multiple FPs by accquiring a new one each time the window "expires" and then use them at will? How many have you collected at 1 time? This is a great idea, especially if they don't enfore the return time. Thanks!

 

[gtpro]

sounds like a good plan ^^

 

[doconeill]

FP question... so you collect multiple FPs by accquiring a new one each time the window "expires" and then use them at will? How many have you collected at 1 time? This is a great idea, especially if they don't enfore the return time. Thanks!

It is possible to get another Fastpass before the return window "expires". You can get another Fastpass at the time listed at the bottom of the Fastpass itself. This time is usually two hours from the time you got it, or the beginning of the return window, whichever is sooner. So you could have more than one Fastpass and not have missed any of the return windows.

But yes, there are those who have a strategy of collecting Fastpasses through the day and then using them at the end of the day. I believe even some touring plans tell you to use your Fastpasses late.

I think someone theorized that you could probably get about 6-7 FP tickets from a single park ticket if you started collecting first thing in the morning and get them in the right order.

We personally don't. We get Fastpasses because we want to ride, and usually do so sooner rather than later. We don't often spend rope-drop to closing in one park.

 

[jstehman]

FP question... so you collect multiple FPs by accquiring a new one each time the window "expires" and then use them at will? How many have you collected at 1 time? This is a great idea, especially if they don't enfore the return time. Thanks!

I have collected at least 3 or 4 at once. Here's what we do... As soon as we get into the park, I collect all the tickets/cards and get to our first FP target. Once the window for the next FP opens, I repeat the process. Meanwhile, my wife and kids are relaxing, shopping going to non-FP attractions, etc.

I have actually tried this by myself early in the morning, without my family entering the park. However, the FP distribution machines do not issue a FP if the ticket/card has not "entered" the park.

 

[SueM in MN]

This is my favorite post about using Fastpass "late" or past the window:

Originally Posted by Diser Dawgdad:It is not an accident that the Fastpass does not specifically prohibit late arrivals. In the original patent for the fastpass (and machine), there is a specific statement that details this "late" use. It is not only OK, it has zero bearing on the flow of the park or the wait times for anyone.

I have read this many times and I was curious about how this is handled in the patent (especially since a patent doesn't 'allow' or 'prohibit' anything), it just describes a method or equipment for doing something.

I went to the patent and looked for anything that might specifically address late arrivals. I didn't find anything, so if someone knows what specific part addresses late arrivals, I'd be interested. I did a search for the word 'late' and found 14 instances, most of them part of other words, like 'relate', 'calculate' , etc.

I did find a lot of language in the legal-language part of the patent like (my bold):
"having an assigned time in the future associated therewith at which time said customer may access said attraction via said at least one second queue, said media having assigned times which are determined and selected by a subsystem operatively coupled with the attraction and are issued in a chronological order; and

permitting a customer having a media to access said attraction via said second queue at said assigned time in the future."
That same language is repeated over and over.

The main parts of the patent had to do with how they determine the waiting time to put as a Fastpass return time, or as it's stated in the patent:
"assigned time in the future is varied dependent upon a changing capacity of said attraction over time. "

The Description of the invention (towards the last part of the patent) uses less legal language and talks about uses of waiting systems and how past systems didn't work because they didn't take changing capacity into account, as mentioned in this part of the Description:

"In actual practice, the capacity of an attraction may not be achievable due to a variety of factors, including number of customers, the demographics of the customers, attraction performance, the number of customer vehicles associated with the ride which are in service over time, the number of staff members available to operate the ride, safety factors, weather, etc. For example, the total number of customers in a park who may even desire to access any attraction may be much less at one time of day (such as at opening) than another time of day (such as mid-day). In addition, the capacity of an attraction may change due to a variety of circumstances. A ride may be taken out of service for a period of time or one or more "cars" or associated customer vehicles may be removed from the ride, lessening the capacity. The number of staff available to operate the ride may fluctuate during the day. If a fewer number of staff members are available, such as at a shift change, the number of patrons which may be loaded into each customer car or the number of cars which may be loaded may be reduced. When slow downs occur and customers with passes must wait in line, the time slots reserved by those customers for other attractions may expire. This not only frustrates the customers with passes, but leads to potentially empty seats on other attractions."

The Description goes on (in great detail) to describe how Disney's patented system takes all those factors into account in assigning Fastpass return times. More Fastpass times are assigned for times when the capacity of the ride is expected to be close to/more than the number of guests wanting to ride. Less Fastpasses are assigned to busy times.

If attractions always had the same capacity and the same demand, when you return with a Fastpass would make no difference.
But, it at least seems like one of the big reasons for Fastpass was trying to 'move' people from times where there was less capacity or more popularity to times when there is more capacity or less popularity.
You can see that on rides like Kali River Rapids, which are very busy during the day and the Fastpass return time may be pretty far out into the aftenoon. When you come back in the afternoon, the standby line may be 5 minutes, but I've been there when the Fastpass line is actually longer than that (??because of later use of Fastpass and more guests accessing thru Fastpass than the system planned).
So, I can see reasons why people coming back later than their 'window' would make a difference. If only a few people are 'out of the window', it probably doesn't have much impact. But, if lots do, the conditions that the algorithm looked at in calculating return times may not match what's actually happening.

There are lots of things included in the patent; things that they do need to use, but hope not to (like how to handle ride shutdowns and re-start from shutdowns). It also includes things they haven't used yet, but might decide to use - like charging for Fastpasses or having a Fastpass system that could assign times days out instead of hours out.

The patent is a kind of boring read, but interesting anyway.

 

[PrincessTiffany]

I have read this many times and I was curious about how this is handled in the patent (especially since a patent doesn't 'allow' or 'prohibit' anything), it just describes a method or equipment for doing something.

I went to the patent and looked for anything that might specifically address late arrivals. I didn't find anything, so if someone knows what specific part addresses late arrivals, I'd be interested. I did a search for the word 'late' and found 14 instances, most of them part of other words, like 'relate', 'calculate' , etc.

I have some dialog saved from a Fastpass post by Knox The Canadian Guy Moderator, in which he has referenced part of the original Fastpass patent:

Knox : And because I can't leave well enough alone.. from the original patent application..

Original Fastpast patent Quote:
As described above, in one or more embodiments of the system and method a customer is prevented from obtaining more than one entitlement or pass for accessing an attraction at a single time. In another arrangement, some customers may be permitted to obtain multiple passes. In one embodiment, the system may be arranged to permit customers to obtain multiple passes at some times and not at others. For example, if the wait time for accessing one or two attractions is particularly long (whether by the first or second queue 24,26) the system may be arranged to permit customers to obtain passes for different attractions so that the customer avoids the need to access one attraction before obtaining a pass for accessing another attraction. End Quote

[Knox]The ability to hold multiple passes was foreseen in the original patent.. as well as a RIDICULOUS number of other scenarios .. literally everything you can imagine they have thought of..

And for those really get off on this stuff.. the FASTPASS patents I read both make reference to a mythical descriptor called "CLOSE_TIME" .. and what happens at close time?

No further passes are generated for the current day, current day passes are no longer valid and system abuse data is purged for that day.

Long story short, I think that the bar codes you are starting to see on FP's will be used to weed out the day-over-day abuse.. but I really doubt the intra-day 'use it anytime' philosophy will change. It works really well for the most part, sole exceptions being on the busiest of the busiest days..

And I don't think there's a FastPass system invented yet that will make a themepark at 98% of capacity, feel like it's at 23% of capacity. That's life. [Knox]

 

[anne0866]

I personally have never been turned away after the posted 2 hour time window. However, my sister who is returning home today from a week long trip said that she was turned away at Toy Story Mania when they were only 25 minutes past the the FP return window! But that is probably b/c TSM is such a new ride with incredibly long wait times. She also said that on one day when the park opened at 9:00 am all of the FPs for the day were gone by 10:00!!!

 

[beachboys]

Aha! Thanks for the explanation! I'll let you know how it goes in December.

 

[dburg30]

Fast passes dont expire, usually, almost all the time, except sometimes when they refuse you after the times stamped on the fastpass.

Or of course if it's a different park day, then they have expired...