Farenheit 9/11...Disney blew it.

[King Triton]

They should do a movie about "What if President Bush did not get Saddam out of power." It could take place five years from now and Saddam just launched a first nuclear strike on U.S. soil. Millions die and terrorists take over the world.

People need to realize that Bush did the right thing to remove Saddam out of power. Saddam did have intent to obtain and use nukes on the United States. Saddam was insane, wanted to kill us, had history of using WMD, and very dangerous. This was confirmed when Saddam's son in law (head of Iraq's nuclear weapons program at the time) fled to Jordan in the late 90's and told of Saddam's plans to obtain and launch a first nuclear strike on Israel and the U.S. Then Saddam had him killed and his head was delivered to him on a platter. HELLO!!! This is a wake up call! Do the democrats want to wait until there is a huge mushroom cloud over New York before taking any action?

They need to do a film that explains the other side. What if Michael Moore (who doesn't have access to top military secrets) is wrong??

Thank God Bush is our president now. Bush will never get credit for preventing a future nuclear war because WE WILL NOT HAVE ONE!!!

 

[WDSearcher]

Originally posted by DIGGER68
Lets not forget who the gov. of Fl is and those great tax breaks that Disney World Gets.

Disney doesn't get any tax breaks that any other employer its size gets. If it did, don't you think that Moore would have detailed them somewhere in his criticisms of the company? And don't you think that, when Moore made that allegation, every newspaper in Florida didn't start investigating? And still ... no list of fabulous tax breaks has ever appeared. Just another case of Moore saying something he assumed to be true without actually finding out if it was first.

 

[WDSearcher]

Originally posted by DIGGER68
"Provide me with proof of those tax breaks please."

How about this one, the company runs its own government? And since they run the show can they not issue their own tax-free municipal bonds. Thats the first one that comes to mind.

Oh come on ... that was a deal worked out by Walt with whoever was governor of Florida back in the 1960s, when Jeb Bush was, what ... ten years old? Sorry. Doesn't fly. You'll have to come up with something far more recent, and it should also be something that no other employer Disney's size in Florida gets, and it should also be something that Jeb Bush had something to do with. Then you can prove the point.

 

[WDSearcher]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
. . . when the film finished the entire theater erupted in cheers. I have never in my life seen that kind of reaction to a film.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well ... that would seem logical, since Moore's supporters are likely to be the first ones to see it. People who are critical of Moore and fans of Bush aren't likely to be standing in line on opening day.

As for theatres erupting in cheers, the most recent examples of that in my neighborhood theaters have been at the end of the most recent "Harry Potter" (and that was just this weekend, almost three weeks after it opened), and after a documentary on Scrabble tournaments called "Word Wars." The most prolonged applause for a film that I can remember was when I saw "An American President" back when it was first released.

 

[Mom2Ashli]

I believe that Disney did the right thing. Everything is not about money, especially when you are dealing with views from MM.

 

[Bstanley]

Disney Inc - a giant conglomerate - certainly wouldn't want to publicly stick their finger in the eye of an administration that could call down the wrath of the IRS, FCC, SEC, OSHA and heaven knows how many other alphabet soup's worth of tax/regulatory/etc agencies on them (both state and local) - BUT -

The publicity that this movie had - PRIOR to it's release was certainly a huge part of why it will do whatever business it ends up doing. It would be naive to think that it wasn't orchestrated by Moore, The Weinsteins and probably Disney Inc - including The Big ME.

 

[LindaDe]

I believe Disney did the right thing. I also believe Moore is getting his 15 minutes (in this case maybe months) of fame. As soon as the election is over he will be a thing of the past. All this nonsense is for money and to get Bush out of office. It's not because HE is a creative thinker and has done something entirely his..,......He didn't even create an original title, which I believe is now in dispute.

About the money. He may have what he calls a success but can it continue??????? Everyone that wanted to see it has now done so and in my opinion that is all there is....one weekend of sales.

As for Hollywood and movies and awards........We all know the truth there.

 

[barreloflaughs]

Jakey wrote:

Michael Moore's film is not a documentary.

and

It is Propaganda pure and simple.

Not to belabor the point but this film IS a documentary. It is probably propaganda as well. The two are not mutually exclusive. At the bottom of my post is a list of documentary films nominated for Oscars in 1942. They are all documentaries and, as near as I can tell, they are all propaganda films. Even ol' Walt made a few of them.

This is not a case of:
documentary = film made by good guys
propaganda = film made by bad guys

We may be talking semantics but you should not fall into the trap of arguing that a film is not a documentary just because you happen to disagree with it. I'm sure that Hitler and Hirohito didn't agree with everything in the movies listed below but that fact alone doesn't mean they aren't documentaries!

DOCUMENTARY
Africa, Prelude to Victory -- The March of Time
The Battle of Midway -- United States Navy
Combat Report -- United States Army Signal Corps
Conquer by the Clock -- Frederic Ullman, Jr., Producer
The Grain that Built a Hemisphere -- Walt Disney, Producer
Henry Browne, Farmer -- United States Department of Agriculture
High over the Borders -- National Film Board of Canada
High Stakes in the East -- The Netherlands Information Bureau
Inside Fighting China -- National Film Board of Canada
It's Everybody's War -- United States Office of War Information
Kokoda Front Line! -- Australian News & Information Bureau
Listen to Britain -- British Ministry of Information
Little Belgium -- Belgian Ministry of Information
Little Isles of Freedom -- Victor Stoloff and Edgar Loew, Producers
Mr. Blabbermouth! -- United States Office of War Information
Mr. Gardenia Jones -- United States Office of War Information
Moscow Strikes Back -- Artkino
The New Spirit -- Walt Disney, Producer
Prelude to War -- United States Army Special Services
The Price of Victory -- William H. Pine, Producer
A Ship Is Born -- United States Merchant Marine
Twenty-One Miles -- British Ministry of Information
We Refuse to Die -- William C. Thomas, Producer
White Eagle -- Concanen Films
Winning Your Wings -- United States Army Air Force


carl
barrel of laughs

 

[King Triton]

This is a propaganda film - even Michael Moore states in the movie that this is his opinion. I saw the movie and found it full of "I hate Bush" bashing and twisted facts. I think Bin Laden will give this film two thumbs up. I found it to be boring and very anti America.

The bottom line is democrats have sour grapes over Bush being president. Michael Moore is very bias and let me guess, didn't care for Bush before making this film. They will applaud anything that hurts our president. Which is very sad during a time of war.

What would it be like if Michael Moore was wrong and Saddam did acquire nukes within 3-5 years from now? Does Michael Moore know more than G.W. Bush? I guess Michael Moore has access to top military secrets and he knows best.

 

[las3888]

I will weigh in with my two cents...

Disney made the right choice. Money isn't everything, and I'm glad Disney chose not to be associated with Michael Moore.

I am not going to get hung up on whether the film is actually a documentary or not (in my opinion, it is not), but what troubles me is that people confuse a documentary as absolute fact, so those who choose to see the film will walk out with a totally slanted view of things that just aren't correct and can be discredited, yet most people will not seek out the real truth. They will sit comfortably through a 2 hour film and think they have truly been educated. These are the people then that turn around and vote - COMPLETELY UNEDUCATED. Now, I know some might take the film with a grain of salt, and might do their own research, but I suspect most do not.

I stand by Disney 100%.

 

[Peter Pirate]

How nice of you to explain modern sociology to us in 15 seconds. It's great to know that I'm not capable of seeing the truth through the exaggeration in a movie like 9/11, because I happen to like MM...But rather than chastize the uneducated left who may find MM a refreshing voice in a muted American press perhaps it is you who should examine facts versus fiction in what has transpired during (Bush's) attempt to make America the new 'evil empire.' Do you trust the voices of Rush, Hannity or Coulter? Do they represent fair and balanced to you? If so, the chasam between fact and fiction may be irreperable.

Further I must wonder if Clinton's lies bothered you? They bothered me. But what about W's lies? Are you bothered at all? They're far greater than lies about sex, even under oath. Where are the WMD? Where is any proof that Saddam was linked to Al Queida? Why no inquiry over prison abuse? Where IS Osama? And finally WHY does the entire world now hate America????



But for the topic at hand, F9/11 is making great money and will garner big awards, why would certain factions of Disney fans NOT want Disney to be associated with such a patriot as Moore? A man unafraid to voice his displeasure? This IS patriotic (whether you like or dislike the view) and Disney should not have been afraid to be involved in any artistic endeavor that is destined to make the Company money...Just like they should have been involved in Gibson's fairy tale should the copportunity have arisen.

 

[mrsR123]

(or is it here, here... I've never seen the idiom in print)

The viewing of a movie does not incapacitate one's critical thinking. A reasonably well-informed viewer can distinguish between hyperbole and pure fact. Yes, Moore is expert at the use of exaggerration--it's one of his most effective tools. But the point is to get people to think. I'm not so sure that can be said of the administration's hyperbole.

A reasonably well-informed viewer can listen to Clark's appearance in the film and weigh his words against the questions raised regarding his credibility.

I'm astonished a the number of folks claiming Moore is anti-American. I believe that his point is that some Americans pay a much greater price to be Americans and protect the freedoms of us all than others.

Go see it, then think, then form an opinion. I fear many are reacting without thinking or even viewing.

 

[Jakey]

barreloflaughs said:

We may be talking semantics but you should not fall into the trap of arguing that a film is not a documentary just because you happen to disagree with it.

I never said that. I said MM's film was not a documentary because too much of it is full of situations and episodes of his own design and creation. Too much of it is made up and has no basis in fact. He draws connections and conclusions that are in the realm of a conspiracy theory and designed to promote his socialist point of view rather than be an unbiased examination of 911.

I agree with you that documentary and propoganda are not always mutually exclusive. A work can be both. I just don't think this or any other work of MM meets the criteria of a true documentary.

A documentary "documents" or shows a real event or live situation and allows the viewer to make up their own mind about the experience, but when Moore stages his own events and directs the participants and draws his own conclusions and tailors the whole thing to have ulterior motives (effecting an election as he has admitted), I don't think it can be called a documentary. The sad thing is that many will see this as the truth when it is, and by this invalid design, must be the farthest thing from it.

 

[las3888]

Where are the WMD? Where is any proof that Saddam was linked to Al Queida? Why no inquiry over prison abuse? Where IS Osama? And finally WHY does the entire world now hate America????

I certainly hope you aren't calling your political education fair and balanced. I would swear you were working for the DNC with all of your pat, misguided, twisted talking points.

As far as your questions go, I will explain to you what is really happening since in your research you have not come upon the truth yet.

1. WMD's - Sarin gas has been found and is considered a WMD. History shows that Saddam has used chemical agents (WMD's) against his own people on multiple occasions. Other chemical agents (such as mustard gas) have also been discovered. Furthermore, Bush's predecessor, William Clinton also proclaimed that Iraq had WMD's. Was he too lying?

2. Saddam linked to Al Qaeda - put it this way, Bush has never said the two are related. The liberals have redefined this situation and have made it yet another drum beat talking point.

3. Inquiry over prison abuse - HUH? There is an inquiry. People are being court-martialled. However, let's keep this issue in perspective in comparison to the beheading of westerners, not to mention the sheer animalistic behavior of the terrorists.

4. Where is Osama? Interesting point. Bill Clinton has stated that he could have had him in 1998 (from government of Sudan), but he refused to get him, even though he was tied to African embassy bombings. I can only hope that our military and our intelligence agencies will find him soon. I give Bush, our military, and intelligence agencies 100% support for their efforts.

5. Why does the entire world hate America? First of all, the entire world does not hate America. The terrorists hate everybody--Europeans, Christians, westerners, etc. The Jihad is not just against America, but all westerners. This country has to conduct itself based on principles, not on popularity within the Euro-French arena.

I was also not trying to insult anyone's intelligence--if you read my comments, you will remember that I said some people will watch this film and seek out the truth on their own. I still stand by what I say in that many others will not.

Again, I stand by Disney in not distributing this film. I am going to stop weighing in on this thread, because I am tired of prolonging Michael Moore's 15 minutes of fame.

It is in times like these that I thank our nation's founding father's who had the foresight to implement the electoral college for presidential elections.

 

[Sarangel]

OK, Ladies & Gents, this has devolved into much too general a debate. I'm closing the thread.

Sarangel