Family crisis (life or death)- Anyone have any info on Quixtar (used to be Amway)

[Geoff_M]

People in MLMs like Quixtar assert that if you aren't succeeding, you aren't working hard enough or don't "believe" enough. They only tell you that you won't have to work hard if they're trying to get you to join. The uplines use tactics like "The Secret" (law of attraction) to convince recruits that they need to think a certain way, they shun the "losers" or "quitters", they conceal information, etc. There's a lot of pressure to do what they say, and to go to events to get "training" or learn some secrets of success.

BINGO!!!! That was a main source of friction in my parents' marriage during the "Amway years". One parent was frustrated at the lack of success and often blamed it on a "lack of effort" by the other parent. It was their fault they weren't "free" yet! QMO's do use many of the classical techniques of cults. Things like "love bombing" new IBO's, isolation (many are told to disassociate with people that aren't "positive" about the business), instilling fear of leaving the fold (denouncing as "quiters" and "loosers" people that leave the organization in front of those that remain).

I still stand by what I said. No one forces you to make the commitments, blow your savings, and ruin your life. You do it of your own free will. Quixtar can't make you do anything you do want to do.

True, true... just like casinos don't make you gamble away your paycheck. But they use a fantasy that rarely pans out as a way to lure clients that often do.

 

[Laura]

Just FYI, being an IBO and actually being in the business of Quixtar are two totally separate things. Like I said, I don't sell at all. I don't make anything. The commission thing I mentioned is roughly $20/quarter. I just use the IBO factor for savings. So there's no commitment for me anywhere.

I still stand by what I said. No one forces you to make the commitments, blow your savings, and ruin your life. You do it of your own free will. Quixtar can't make you do anything you do want to do.

I know a lot of people who join Mary Kay just for the 50% discount: "personal use consultants". Some people do the business very casually, sell to Mom and Aunt Jane, etc. But other people have directors who put the pressure on them to go to weekly meetings, Career Conference, Seminar, use the Bible to inform them that all they have to do is have enough "faith" in God and He will provide them with recruits.

Everything I've read about Quixtar is very very similar to MK, just different terminology. An Independent Beauty Consultant with Mary Kay isn't independent at all. She has many restrictions placed on her as to how to advertise her business, she's pressured into joining and immediately buying inventory so she'll have a "full store" and "be a star". Some can ignore it, but for some reason some people latch on to the sense of "belonging" to the group or are sucked into the false Christianity preached by the directors. And that's where the spiral downward begins.

It may be easy for you to say you're not forced to do anything in Quixtar, you operate on your own free will, but that's you. Someone else can have a different experience, and that may be a very destructive one. Susy's nephew is far from alone.

 

[Octoberbride03]

And ppl wonder why my DH calls it "Scamway"

Not a comment on your nephew, I wish you the best of luck finding help for him. But I just hit Amway's website and read their FAQ's. Maybe its just me but if 1 of the questions they feel the need to post and answer to is: "Is Amway/Quixtar a cult?" then its time to run in the other direction. Out of like 20 questions that's number 12. The fact that its there at all is just wrong IMO

 

[LindsayDunn228]

It may be easy for you to say you're not forced to do anything in Quixtar, you operate on your own free will, but that's you. Someone else can have a different experience, and that may be a very destructive one. Susy's nephew is far from alone.

I totally agree. People's lives have been ruined by Quixtar, Mary Kay, Pampered Chef, etc. But I still stand by one of my biggest mottos: Personal Responsibility. You do have choices in life. Some folks make bad ones for themselves and I don't think the companies are always to blame.

 

[RSoxFan]

OP, my aunt and uncle also sell Quixtar and I couldn't agree with you more about what a cult and sham it is. They truly think they can sit on their couch all day long while everyone else makes money for them. They bring their stupid catalogues to every family gathering and expect all of us to buy their products. When my mother wanted a washing machine from Sears, my aunt tried to convince her to go to Best Buy and use her "code" to make my aunt some money.

In the meantime, of course, they haven't made any money, they can't pay any of their bills, and my parents have had to take out a loan on the mortgage to loan the money to my aunt and uncle.

I truly hope your nephew is able to get the help he needs.

 

[ducklite]

If he is contemplating suicide and refuses counseling, call the police, tell them he threatened his life and have him committed.
I'm serious... don't delay. Threats of suicide are not something to be passive about.

Exactly! I had two friends who committed suicide. Both of them threatened it, no one took either of them seriously. Those wakes and funerals were so utterly painful that words can't begin to describe them. Such beautiful people, lives ended in an instant over ridiculous things. Had they both gotten the mental health counseling that they needed, they would both be here today.

When it comes to psychiatric issues, the county will pick up the tab for anyone who is uninsured. The most he might have to pay is on a sliding scale basis for outpatient counseling, a few dollars a session.

Please pick up the phone and call the police now, and make a report.

Anne

 

[susy]

Hi! I'm the OP. Just to clear things up ....it's my nephew's friend's parents who are in Quixtar, not my sister...

Lindsay,
I completely agree with you that people are responsible for themselves. However, he was 15!!!! His parents had just gone through a divorce. I think he was an easy target and that Quixtar should not have even allowed him in the meeting without a parent present. That's irresponsibilty on Quixtar's part.

 

[susy]

Hey Ann! How are you enjoying your house? Thanks so much for your post!

 

[Geoff_M]

Some folks make bad ones for themselves and I don't think the companies are always to blame.

No, but companies that act in an unethical manner and turn a blind eye to known abuses have a responsibility in my eyes... Be they Mary Kay or Amway/Quixtar/Alticor (or whatever name they've changed themselves to nowadays to try and run away from their public image). They may not be fully blamed for people's decisions, but they are often the catalyst that triggers the bad outcome.

Even if I was smart enough not to swallow the bait (hook, line, and sinker) and opted have a more rational relationship with a company... I would never agree to be associated with such a business that has acted the way that Amway has over the years and help put money in their coffers. The DeVos's and VanAndel's will never get a red cent from me.

 

[ducklite]

Hey Ann! How are you enjoying your house? Thanks so much for your post!

I hope I helped. The good news is that most people who volcalize thoughts of suicide aren't usually at risk of immediate danger to themselves. The bad news is that they have a high risk of committing suicide in the future if they don't get counseling.

I'm loving the house, thanks for asking!

I think I'm headed down your way in a couple of weeks, a friend of mine is playing a gig at the track down there and asked me to come to the show. (Ironically he is the ex-boyfriend of the girl I mentioned earlier in this thread who committed suicide.)

Anne

 

[ilovejack02]

I still stand by what I said. No one forces you to make the commitments, blow your savings, and ruin your life. You do it of your own free will. Quixtar can't make you do anything you do want to do.

I stand by that too and I am not into the whole Quixtar deal. My family is very well educated and doesnt not blow ANY money on this stuff. Maybe once every cpl of yrs they hit a conference and that is about it. In the 10 yrs i have only seen it being a positive thing for them they dont make tons of money and dont try too, just work it as Lindsey does. NOW with that being said, im sure there are folks that do blow money and lose lots with it, as they would prob do with any business venture.

Im not saying Quixtar is the greatest deal in the world, its not IMO, but it is also not the most horrible thing to be involved with if someone knows how to work it and knows that you will NOT get rich quick.. or prob get rich ever.
I think it takes common sense and a level head to get involved in these things without getting sucked in to deep.

The Op's nephew is depressed which is an illness and needs help... sounds like he is spending excessive energy and thoughts on this stuff and that is a sign... Environmental factors can have to do with it too.. and this quixtar stuff may have prompted it of course. If it wasnt this it may have been something later on triggered it. I hope he gets the help he needs SOON and gets away from what has prompted his major problem. I also hope he can stay away from things like this later in life too... if he got sucked in this far, there may be other things that he fixates on later too.

PS yes getting sucked in at 15 is wrong wrong wrong!!!!!!
He may have problems with his parents divorcing issues too, My stepson is 18 now and his parents have been divorced 15 yrs and he still has issues with it. I cant imagine what that would do to a 15 yr esp if he has never had counseling for it.
Poor boy, i hope he gets the help he needs soon!!!

 

[poohandwendy]

If he is contemplating suicide and refuses counseling, call the police, tell them he threatened his life and have him committed.

I'm serious... don't delay. Threats of suicide are not something to be passive about.

I agree.

Don't concern yourself with this company, this has nothing to do with any organization, this has to do with your nephew having mental health issues that need resolved. This company is only the symptom of the illness, so to speak. (if it weren't this, it would be another thing) He is in a really bad place and needs outside help asap.

ETA, I don't mean that this company isn't bad for him, I mean that entering into an argument of whether or not Quixtar is bad is just a waste of time and he will not agree, he is fixated on it. He needs profession help if he is making unhealthy choices to the point of contemplating suicide. Argue the downfalls of Quixtar AFTER he is away from it and has a mental health professional helping him. He is not thinking clearly now, he needs to be away from it for a while to see it more clearly.

 

[susy]

How funny that as I write this (I'm at my mom's where my nephew lives), the phone is ringing and it is one of his creditors calling him. Never in my life have I ever even made a late payment. We are well educated (just finished my master's with a 4.0), as well. I don't see where that comes in to play,but whatever. He definitely needs counseling. My mom just brought up a good point. If we (his family) become the cause of him "quitting", then later on he will blame us for any lack of success. This is such a tragedy, because (there's that phone again) as I said in my OP, he was extremely gifted in both math and science. He really enjoys cooking and I've been dropping hints about what a great company Whole Foods is to work for (there's one about 10 minutes away). Also, my mother (and he) lives literally TWO BLOCKS from dowtown Hollywood, which is nothing but shops and restaurants (really happening place). Sigh....thanks for all of the comments. We will be saving these for a time (and I know that time will come) when he is receptive....keep any personal stories coming!!!!!!

 

[Oreo Cookie]

If he is contemplating suicide and refuses counseling, call the police, tell them he threatened his life and have him committed.

I'm serious... don't delay. Threats of suicide are not something to be passive about.

Exactly. If someone is a threat to themselves or to others they can be committed against their will. I know this is a painful thing for the parents to do, but it is necessary, and could literally mean the difference between life and death.

Thoughts of suicide, and comments about suicide need to be taken seriously. The stakes are too high. This young man needs help, and it has to be professional help.

Mental illness runs in my family, so I know first hand the pain, and the complexities of having someone committed. It's agonizing, but it is the best for the person.

 

[Oreo Cookie]

Susy, to answer you question... As others have stated, your family member needs to get away from those in his "business" and get some serious counseling.

Lindsay, I'd disagree with that assessment to a large degree. There are two entities at work here: Amway/Quixtar and the nephew's QMO (Quixtar Motivational Organization, AKA "Upline"). A little background: For about 9 years (ending about 2 years ago) my parents were hip-deep in Amway/Quixtar. I watched as they effectively went broke trying to "Be Free". My Dad blew threw his parent's inheritance, their savings, you name it. Once I my sister and I had to loan them money so they wouldn't lose their house... and still they wouldn't get out of the Amway/Quixtar trap. Their marriage of 40 years has been strained almost to the breaking point several times during the ordeal.

The main problem is that largely the QMO's sells a vision to their "IBOs" that they too will become millionaires if they just "work the business" and get "plugged into the System". "The System" being overpriced books, tapes, meetings (both local and major functions), etc. etc. What the lower level IBO's aren't told is that the big shots on the stages are making most of their money, not from Amway/Quixtar commissions, but from their profits for sales of "The System". So my Mom and Dad bought into a false vision and held on to it for years.

So what is Amway/Quixtar's "fault" in this? For starters, they have been fully aware of the abuses being committed by the QMO's, but have largely failed to act on the problems. This is because they have become co-depended on the "big pins" and their armies of IBO's. Without them, Amway/Quixtar would be dead in the water with no real meaningful sales. Several years ago, instead of trying to fix the problems that were cropping up in the forms of lawsuits over things like the profits from "The System", Amway decided that the best way to deal with the problems was to make distributors sign binding arbitration agreements that gagged parties from talking publicly about any internal Amway squabbles and forced everyone to abide by the decisions of arbiters of Amway's choosing! Fortunately, judges have often thrown the agreements out, noting their gross unfairness, when Amway/Quixtar has tried to use them to get filed lawsuits thrown out of court.

And then there's Amway/Quixtar's "looking the other way" when it comes to the rules designed to insure that the business isn't an illegal Pyramid Scheme. Since Amway signed a consent decree with the FTC in the late 1970's, they are supposed to insure that a certain amount of sales are actually retail sales to non-distributors/IBO's. By law, any system that is built on "self-consumption" of product among members that are recruited is illegal. For decades there was a set percentage of sales that had to be real genuine retails sales in order for any bonus to be paid. A few years ago the absolute rules was re-worded to be less absolute. Amway/Quixtar also relies on unverified self-reporting to "enforce" the rules on bonus payouts. When you used to walk into my parents' garage and basement, it looked like an Amway warehouse up in Ada. They were packed with product they had been encouraged to by so they could maintain their standing in their line of sponsorship. Water conditions, air purifying fans, stacks of "starter kits",... you name it.

I had a similar experience with a good friend. It is sad to watch, and they become brainwashed, and you see the money going down the drain. Truly, it is SCAMWAY.

sorry to hear this happened to your parents.

 

[poohandwendy]

We will be saving these for a time (and I know that time will come) when he is receptive....keep any personal stories coming!!!!!!

With all due respect, he is threatening suicide, that is a cry for help. Please don't wait for a conversation that may come too late, or delay intervention because he may 'blame you' later. Better to be blamed than wracked with guilt that the signs were there and no one did anything to prevent a suicide. Please have him seen by a professional, even if it has to be against his will.

 

[Laura]

With all due respect, he is threatening suicide, that is a cry for help. Please don't wait for a conversation that may come too late, or delay intervention because he may 'blame you' later. Better to be blamed than wracked with guilt that the signs were there and no one did anything to prevent a suicide. Please have him seen by a professional, even if it has to be against his will.

I agree.

 

[meandtheguys2]

As I stated earlier, deal with the mental illness immediately, don't waste time arguing about a business and its merits.

 

[ilovejack02]

How funny that as I write this (I'm at my mom's where my nephew lives), the phone is ringing and it is one of his creditors calling him. Never in my life have I ever even made a late payment. We are well educated (just finished my master's with a 4.0), as well. I don't see where that comes in to play,but whatever. He definitely needs counseling. My mom just brought up a good point. If we (his family) become the cause of him "quitting", then later on he will blame us for any lack of success. This is such a tragedy, because (there's that phone again) as I said in my OP, he was extremely gifted in both math and science. He really enjoys cooking and I've been dropping hints about what a great company Whole Foods is to work for (there's one about 10 minutes away). Also, my mother (and he) lives literally TWO BLOCKS from dowtown Hollywood, which is nothing but shops and restaurants (really happening place). Sigh....thanks for all of the comments. We will be saving these for a time (and I know that time will come) when he is receptive....keep any personal stories coming!!!!!!

Education or not prob has no play in it, i was giving my families background. What i do know is that my cousin worked very hard for her degrees and wouldnt give it up her career for a get rich quick deal.


You cant save him by dropping hints and waiting for the right time. If he is talking suicide outloud.... then you all need to address it now. A call to the police will keep himself from hurting himself now and get him possibly on the road to help. You are right he may resent you all for doing it, but what if he hurts himself before you decide its the right time.
People with mental illness blame the world for all of their issues alot of times, so no matter how you all try to fix it at some point this is going to be your faults in his eyes and you need to now that it is not and you all are just trying to help. Also blaming this all on Quixtar isnt the way to go either.

Good luck I hope he gets help soon!

 

[puffkin]

Wow, this is a tough issue. I hope that you are at least able to get him into counseling. Once he gets some professional help dealing with his "issues" he may be better equiped to assess the Quixtar business.

My BIL got involved with this when he was in college. Guilted my husband into going to a "meeting" with his mentor and everything. It was constant chatter about his business and how we would be stupid not to join and be rich. He read the books, went to several conferences etc.

About the same time, I became a Tastefully Simple independent consultant. I did a lot of research on Direct Selling type companies and felt that TS was a very reputable and sincere opportunity. I do it as a part time job and really do make decent money out of it (enough to fund my WDW habit and then some ). It is a lot of work, but it is my business. It is a great group of people and the CEO and business development teams are top notch.

After becoming involved in this type of business, I really do see though how people can get brainwashed/sucked into a cult like atmosphere. I work HARD for everything I have gotten in this business and it isn't easy. I don't sink money into unnecessary expenses like inventory (we direct ship to clients) or logo wear or anything like that. With the high quality company that TS is, it is still sad to see how some people get sucked in. It is against our code of ethics but there are some people out there trying to take advantage and a whole lot of people who just don't get it!

I always felt that there was something funny with Quixtar, and now that I have my TS experience for over a year, I definitely see that it is a scam except for a select few. My BIL is no longer involved, he fortunately had the good sense to pull himself out of it because he got ZERO family support. I hope that you and your family can find your Nephew the help he needs through a professional. As for the business, my only word of advice is to give him absolutely no support in it and refuse to discuss any aspect of it with him.