Fairfield Onsite Sales Center at Bonnet Creek Resort

[Lisa P.]

I'm surprised to see the mention of 13-story buildings. Probably should not have been, though. This is close to the same height as the Swan (without the swans on top) and Disney's Contemporary, only about half as tall as the Dolphin. Fairfield has built a few taller timeshare buildings in certain other locations also. The two Fairfield buildings I've seen constructed there so far are only 4 and 7 stories tall, respectively.

 

[jmminarik]

Well, it certainly seems less costly with FF, but even though Lisa's tried to educate me, I can't help but not trust points systems that use thousands of points. It's just too easy to obfusticate the prices in my suspicious mind.I also don't like pinball machines that require hundred of millions to pop a free game, so maybe it's just my KISS mentality.

What I'd be curious about is how these 'weeks' compare to our seasons. I still have trouble with the 'weeks' concept (give me calendar dates like our seasons) without mapping everything out on a big calendar, so maybe I'll do that in the morning if no one else already has this sort of thing. I have a feeling there may be times of the year in different years when the cost differential will be less since DVC follows human patterns for vacations to WDW (tied in with schools and holidays) as opposed to simple 'week' strategy.

Regardless, so long as its tasteful, having more options is usually a good thing.

-Joe

 

[PamOKW]

I'm not that familiar with how other timeshares work. On the description it says the entire year is Red Season. Does that mean you will always pay the Prime number of points for a stay? What is the price per point? Is it different for every resort or like DVC one price?

 

[lenshanem]

So what is the starting price?

Will they be allowed to have signs on WDW property pointing the way to the resort complex?

I wonder if they'll put up anything high up so it can be seen throughout the park from far away? (For example, Swan and Dolphin's statutes.)

Has anyone seen a picture of the opening to the complex? Someone earlier posted the entrance was ugly.

Sounds like quite a complex they might eventually have. It will be very interesting to see how this effects DVC and WDW resorts.

 

[Chuck S]

Possible effect upon DVC by the opening of the Fairfield Resort? Probably very little, except perhaps, a slight slowing in "new" sales. Resale prices may eventually decline, if Fairfield follows the typical huge drop in resale prices.

But, IMO, for the most part people buy DVC because it IS DVC. As nice as Fairfield, Marriott and other are, they are NOT a Disney resort with all the associated perks.

Also, many DVCers are first time timeshare purchasers and feel more secure purchasing form Disney than another company. Especially if Fairfield goes the high pressure sales route.

 

[dvc_john]

Pam:
I believe the red season refers to RCI and II trades. All of Orlando is red season all year long. Trading within Fairfield will be much like trading within DVC. The points schedule that Lisa posted indicates the point values for different seasons/unit sizes.
Like DVC, they will sell you any number of points. But unlike DVC, the more points you buy, the less you pay per point. If I recall (I may be wrong on this), they quoted me a price that came out to be about 10.5 cents/point for a moderate sized package, and about .08 cents /point for a much larger package. Also, if you buy enough points, you belong to a select tier that allows you to make reservations at a 25% discount. (ie, for a week that normally uses 189,000 points for a week, you would only use about 142,000 points.)

Lenshanem:
There are already signs on Disney property directing you to this resort. They are just like the signs directing you to the Disney resorts, except they are a different color scheme.
As for the entrance, I didn't think it was ugly at all. It is very nicely landscaped.

Lisa:
You know how one timeshare developer will say bad things about another developer. Well one timeshare person told me that the points needed for reservations at a Fairfield resort could change / go up. So a reservation that uses 189,000 points this year may require more points in the future. Is that true? I don't know whether to believe that or not.

 

[lenshanem]

So is the preview center now open? Or did they just announce it is going to be open soon?

I hope someone can do some detective work and take some pics for us DISers soon. I find this really interesting...
If people are going to be able to stay there starting later this summer then I'm assuming alot has been built already.

 

[Mush]

First off, to help Lisa with the image issues for floorplans and the points chart, I've also got access to these and have uploaded them to a Yahoo group dedicated to Fairfield resorts in the Orlando area. Head on over to the following link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fairfield_Orlando/

and join. To avoid spam, we moderate the memberships, so I'll have to approve y'all. Just send me an e-mail at cemushr@ilstu.edu after you submit your request to join and tell me you're from disboards, and I'll automatically approve ya without the typical questions. Once you get access, just go to the 'Files' section and select 'Bonnet Creek'.


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Regarding the prices...points cost pretty much the same across the Fairfield spectrum. The only real difference is the price per point at different purchase levels (if you buy more points at one time, the price per point goes down). The primary benefit of owning at Bonnet Creek as opposed to somewhere else is that you get first dibs at reservations up to 13 months out, while most others have to wait until 9 months out.


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As for maintenance fees (someone mentioned that it would very pricey relative to other FF resorts), according to Keith Halfpop's Fairfield Timeshare Yahoo group (the main group where over 2000 members discuss issues), the maintenance fees for Bonnet creek are lower than most other FF resorts: $2.92 per 1000 points owned per year plus the annoying separate property tax that Florida requires. Compare that to the other FF resorts in the Orlando area:

Bonnet Creek: $2.92/1000 pts
Star Island:$3.12/1000 pts
Cypress Palms: $3.31/1000 pts



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Another post mentioned the ability/inability to exchange into this resort. I was able to get 6 days in a 1BR deluxe unit arriving January 1, 2005 with no problem just this week. For the first time, I was able to see this resort on RCI for exchange on Thursday (check-in dates for Mid-December 2004 and early-Mid January 2005). People were able to get these weeks with not that great trades (if I tried to explain the Fairfield/RCI relationship regarding exchanging, I'd be here for a week...besides, Lisa's much more of an expert at this than I am
.

Along these lines, the points required to get in here are a little heftier, but, with a little planning and manipulating points, most everyone should be able to have enough points at least every other year, with a large percentage able to get in at least once a year.


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Yeah, there's no mention of this on the Fairfield web site...mark that up as one of many "not-the-greatest" things about the site...I'll just say it's a work in progress. Maybe they don't want to publicize it a ton until rooms are available. Our fingers are crossed that we may able to do online reservations in the coming month.


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dvc_john brings up an interesting question on point values going up in the future. When I went through the sales pitch in Las Vegas (hey, I was young and naive...I bought from the developer), I asked that very question before we bought. Granted, this came from a person trying to make a sale, but his response was that if point requirements went up, those who owned at that resort would get a corresponding adjustment in points that they own. From what I have gathered, a point is similar to a share of the resort...when all of the "points" (officially called undivided interest ownership) have been sold for a resort, I don't think they can sell anymore, especially since these are deeded for life. Any outstanding, unsold points are given to exchange companies and/or rented out. This is a REALLY watered-down, principles-level description. Short answer (should have started with this, right?)...if you own at Bonnet Creek, you own the same percentage of the resort, regardless of whether the points required go up or not. Those trading into Bonnet Creek...well...that may be another story. I'm still too new at this to have a history on whether point requirements have ever gone up at a resort or not. Again, I'll gladly defer to Lisa if she has better info.





How will this affect DVC? As a FF owner, I gotta agree with Chuck S on this one - probably some impact, but not a whole lot. It's almost an apples/oranges comparsion from the intangible differences.

Pros for Bonnet Creek: Deeded for life as opposed to a 50 year plan for DVC. Can exchange into more resorts in a broader geographical area easier (from what I have gathered)...especially into other Fairfield resorts.


Pros for DVC: You'll get the mouse...the magic. From what I have heard, Bonnet Creek won't have as much of a "disneyesque" feel as with the DVC resorts (which is expected). Most DVC resorts have an on-site restaurant, if I have researched enough - most FF resorts do not.




As I mentioned, we're heading down in early January (DS will be 2...first time for him...second time for me, third time for DW), and I did a lot of looking around on trying to get a DVC week (via direct trade), getting an RCI resort, or using FF points to get into one of their units. Since we could actually get into Bonnet Creek, and since we were able to use some expiring FF points to purchase hopper tix, we determined that staying at Bonnet Creek was the best way to go (we were renting a car regardless of where we were staying, so that nullified the transportation issue, except for the parking pass). Would we have liked to try a DVC resort? Heck, yes, and we hope to do so in the near future! Are we upset? not in the least! It sounds like it's going to be a beautiful resort in a great location. It's not on Disney property, but you can't get any closer without actually being on-site. It likely won't have much of an impact on DVC sales.

Okay...rambled enough. Hope this information helps some.

Chris

 

[Lisa P.]

PamOKW, the yearly RCI/II calendars are the same for nearly all timeshare resorts. All Orlando resorts are red/high season year-round in both systems.

The general timeshare calendar throughout the industry is numbered. The first week of the year begins in January. With little variation, it's the same as the one used for the numbered weeks calendar at FF Cypress Palms.

However, when booking internally using points, both DVC and FF have their own "seasons," completely separate from the RCI/II seasons. DVC uses "Premier, Magic, etc." FF uses "Prime, High, etc." Both DVC and FF have separate points charts for each resort in their internal systems.

Developer price per point is set by the corporation and does not vary by home resort. As with DVC, FF's resale prices may vary by home resort more dependent upon supply and demand.

Lenshanem, the starting price is usually based on the fewest number of points one would own to spend a week in a desired FF home resort. At Bonnet Creek, this would be 84,000 points (value season 1BR week). While a prospective buyer may opt to buy as few as 77,000 (if they planned to use other FF resorts regularly or only spend partial weeks), they would be encouraged to start at 84,000 if they wanted to visit Bonnet Creek most years. At 11¢ negotiated developer purchase price, the starting price would reasonably be set at ~$8,500.

As for the signs, I don't know. Are there signs now, which direct guests to the non-Disney DTD hotels? I've never noticed.

There are currently no FF resort buildings anywhere in their system with large roof features like the Swan or Dolphin, so I would not expect that with this Bonnet Creek resort. Since there have been no announcements of the Bonnet Creek hotels desired for the rest of the development, it remains to be seen whether those will eventually affect the skyline. 13 stories for this timeshare is much shorter than some of the DTD hotels and the Dolphin/Swan.

I have not seen any online pictures of the entrance to the complex. I was stunned that someone posted they found it ugly. My impression was much more favorable since there was extensive, colorful landscaping. There is still some construction there.

I agree with Chuck S and Mush (Chris) on the minimal impact this resort will have on DVC sales. DVC's sales are largely driven by member referrals and park/hotel kiosks. Those are unlikely to change, IMHO.

Dvc_john and Mush gave good info above. The FF points charts have not changed at any FF resorts so far (about 15 years now). The FairShare Plus program does allow for possible future changes with protections for owners at the affected home resort. If it costs more points to stay, the home resort owners automatically receive that same increase in their annual points ownership. There is little to no incentive for FF to make such changes. FF may add more buildings in an additional phase, with a higher points chart, but those buildings are reserved independently, as if they are a separate resort.

Lenshanem, I'm wondering the same thing about the preview center. The announcement implies that the preview center is now open. From the level of completed construction that I saw in February, it would not surprise me. Would like to know for sure.

I have pictures from that Feb. trip but no way to scan them in or upload them. There was one nearly-completed 4 story building that looked like the artist's renderings for the recreational complex. Another, large, 7 story condo building was also nearly complete with at least 1 more foundation poured.

 

[lenshanem]

Thanks Lisa.

What did you think of the theming you saw?

Comparable to anything?

$8,500 not bad considering it is deeded for life plus has more options for stays outside WDW. Course, I really don't know what I'm talking about...

 

[PamOKW]

Chris and Lisa thank you both for taking the time to post so much information. Chris, I hope you'll give us your thoughts after your December stay.

I had a hard time wrapping my mind around the DVC system until I sat down with a chart. Right now I have that same "glazed" feeling reading about Fairfield although I'm sure it's easy to understand once you "get it".

While this may have some effect on DVC, I would think it might have a greater impact on Vistana since it is even closer to the parks than they are. But, it seems like Orlando continues to "build it and they come"....more and more resorts of all types seem to be coming from these new timeshare to the Ritz-Carlton.

 

[betslinc]

I own small packages at both DVC and Fairfield and find they complement each other perfectly, as long as you take the time to really know both systems. If you thought dvc was complicated, I'd say that Fairfield took me about 3 times as long to learn. Much of my knowledge was aided along by Lisa P, who is the Yahoo Fairfield user equivalent to Dean, she seems to know everything. Fairfield also has a lot of little fees added on for transactions. The flip side is, because it is so complicated you can get some amazing trades for minimal cost because most people who own Fairfield don't actually realize its full potential. For me, owning both DVC and Fairfield is great, we can stay onsite, or travel anywhere else in RCI. Unless Bonnet Creek is II affiliated (Most Fairfield resorts are RCI affilated because Cendant owns both RCI and Fairfield) you wouldn't be able to trade Bonnet Creek and DVC very easily. Thanks Chris also for giving such a nice summary!
Betsy

 

[Lisa P.]

What did you think of the theming you saw? Comparable to anything?

The exterior of the recreation building looked just like this person's photo, posted on another forum. It's hard to tell what it will really look like once it's finished.

Fairfield's newer resorts are decorated with a more subtle theme to suit the area. For example, the decor of FF Smoky Mountains reminds me of a cross between DVC HHI and FW Cabins, with its "rustic" LR furniture and ironwork animal shapes on its lamps, soft mossy green tones, lantern lightposts and stonework. FF Daytona Ocean Walk is beachfront art deco. FF Hawaii at Kona Hawaiian Village has traditionally styled longhouses and a sandy bottom, lagoon pool. The details are present but a created storyline is not evident as it is with Disney's resorts. I have no idea what kind of theme will be seen, if any, at the Bonnet Creek resort when it's finished.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Perhaps fairfield will turn out to be the better onsite choice given the better trade options described above. This may be some strong competition for DVC is the units and amenities like pools and activities at the resort are top notch.

 

[lenshanem]

Thanks again Lisa. Wow, sign me up for the Hawaiian Village. Nice..........................

 

[vanstoj]

Our friends bought into this resort and I do know the minimum purchase was $10,000. Don't know much else although they did get a free trip to st. Thomas out of it.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by CaptainMidnight
Perhaps fairfield will turn out to be the better onsite choice given the better trade options described above. This may be some strong competition for DVC is the units and amenities like pools and activities at the resort are top notch.

I have no doubt that the Fairfield at Bonnet Creek will be a fine timeshare resort. But it's an off-site resort, not an on-site resort. True, it's the closest off-site timeshare resort, with its access road connecting to Buena Vista Drive. Unlike the DVC resorts, the Fairfield is not a Disney resort.

DVC will continue to enjoy a marketing advantage because they can market to guests at the Disney resorts and theme parks. Fairfield will compete with the many other off-site timeshares to market through other channels (such as desks in off-site hotels and advertisement in freebie tourist publications).

The Fairfield may be a better choice than DVC for some guests, just as the Marriott, Hilton and Starwood (Vistana) timeshare resorts may be better than DVC for some guests.

 

[laceemouse]

We stayed at FF Branson about 3 years ago and the decor was very nice. We got it through an RCI trade, we own in Williamsburg, Va. (not a FF.) RCI and II are great as they have thousands of choices and we have never had trouble getting what we want, but DVC is really the best for Disney fanatics who want to stay on-site. Having both is ideal for us.

 

[jmminarik]

Originally posted by jmminarik
What I'd be curious about is how these 'weeks' compare to our seasons. I still have trouble with the 'weeks' concept (give me calendar dates like our seasons) without mapping everything out on a big calendar, so maybe I'll do that in the morning if no one else already has this sort of thing.
-Joe

Well, it took me a bit longer to get completed, but I've drawn up a calender with the FF and DVC seasons combined. Since there's no good way for my brain to work with 'weeks' other than to draw a calender by weeks, I used the 2004 Sat-Sat calender as a starting point. The FF weeks are colored Red (prime), Orangey (High) and Cyan (Value). DVC seasons are not specially colored since I can quickly comprehend our 5 seasons.

It ain't pretty, but it works for me: http://homepage.mac.com/jmminarik/Disney/DVCvsFF2004.htm

This thread has the maintenance cost per 1000 points but I didn't see a number for the Property taxes. Anyone know what they are? I've got a spreadsheet comparing SSR&S sold through Disney with FF night by night, but without property taxes it's not going to be as complete.

Thanks,
Joe

 

[lenshanem]

Wow jmminarik, thanks!

You might want to post this link under a new thread so everyone will see!