Extra Magic Hours Still Exist

[cjparker0110]

Or, after the backlash that I have heard is occurring, this will just go away. Who knows?

I hope so. I don't usually complain about something that a big corporation does. After all, they are in the business of making money. However, I think this one is outrageous and insulting to the people that have been going for years. I've only enjoyed EMH one time so it won't affect me, but in all honesty I think it's ridiculous to charge more than the cost of a one day ticket to get in for 3 hours.

 

[kaytieeldr]

In short, "scheduled" is simply the small crumb of information that guests are given in advance and in no way reflect actual results which is all that matters. Since Easter and Spring Breaks take place in March and April each year, but shift around year to year, all one needs to do is add up the total number of actual EMH opportunities in March+April for 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 and you will see the trend and change over time. "Scheduled" is completely unimportant in this exercise as is any particular week. What matters is the actual total over a 2 month period. Anyone want to do that math?

May 1st, sure. It's possible no additional morning EMH will show up. But there are DISers who've had EMH added while they were at WDW - so with the month not even having begun, no, it's not Time to do the math.

Now I have also been educated that going from 13 EMH days during the month of Easter to 5 days this year is not a reduction of 8 days like my calculator or any second grader would tell you, but it is a "non-addition". Got it.

Yes. While there were ultimately 13 morning EMH last April, only four of them were scheduled when the April calendar was released in October 2014. Nobody yet has responded with even an estimate of any date the extra nine were added.

I couldn't agree more. Disney hasn't ever been very open about their plans but it's clear that their first goal is to make money. If they can sell EMH instead of giving it away why wouldn't they do so?

Good question. They used to sell E-Ride Nights. Then they stopped. Now they provide free Extra Magic Hours.

 

[JimmyV]

In short, "scheduled" is simply the small crumb of information that guests are given in advance and in no way reflect actual results which is all that matters. Since Easter and Spring Breaks take place in March and April each year, but shift around year to year, all one needs to do is add up the total number of actual EMH opportunities in March+April for 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 and you will see the trend and change over time. "Scheduled" is completely unimportant in this exercise as is any particular week. What matters is the actual total over a 2 month period. Anyone want to do that math?

OK. I've now done the math:

Total # of EMH opportunities at the MK by year, from 3/1 until 4/30:
2012=27
2013=27
2014=25
2015=27

For 2016, the total number of EMH opportunities (actual as of today, plus scheduled through April 30) is 18.
So the only unknown right now is how many additional EMH opportunities they add at the last minute between now and April 30. Given that Easter has past, it is highly unlikely that they will add 9 new opportunities. But we shall see.

 

[mom2rtk]

OK. I've now done the math:

Total # of EMH opportunities at the MK by year, from 3/1 until 4/30:
2012=27
2013=27
2014=25
2015=27

For 2016, the total number of EMH opportunities (actual as of today, plus scheduled through April 30) is 18.
So the only unknown right now is how many additional EMH opportunities they add at the last minute between now and April 30. Given that Easter has past, it is highly unlikely that they will add 9 new opportunities. But we shall see.

Thanks for doing that! I hope you'll update this thread in late April for us.

 

[bcrook]

And I will totally agree they are reducing EMHs. They have done that for years now. No one seemed to mind or notice until now though due to the paid event. Which again supports my opinion that some are assuming this means the death of EMH, which is what the OP was talking about.

That sure isn't true. There was plenty of howling when evening hours were cut from 3 to 2 hours. That moved killed my spirit. I still haven't recovered from that (and the universal credit card guarantee for ADRs).

What these extra paid magic hours are doing to me is killing the opportunity for extended late stays on non Evening EMH.

For example, in the summer, MK stays open to midnight often on non EMH nights. But now a few more days a week it will close at 10:00 so the hard ticket group can play from 10:00-1:00. It will definitely cut into my park time across the board. Same thing for rope drop. More mornings are being taken out of play.

This is a serious encroachment on the best times in the park. This is on top of blackout dates on the DVC AP. I feel like l'm in a boxing match with Joe Louis. And I'm not a boxer. It's starting to get bloody.

 

[DebbieB]

That sure isn't true. There was plenty of howling when evening hours were cut from 3 to 2 hours. That moved killed my spirit. I still haven't recovered from that (and the universal credit card guarantee for ADRs).

What these extra paid magic hours are doing to me is killing the opportunity for extended late stays on non Evening EMH.

For example, in the summer, MK stays open to midnight often on non EMH nights. But now a few more days a week it will close at 10:00 so the hard ticket group can play from 10:00-1:00. It will definitely cut into my park time across the board. Same thing for rope drop. More mornings are being taken out of play.

This is a serious encroachment on the best times in the park. This is on top of blackout dates on the DVC AP. I feel like l'm in a boxing match with Joe Louis. And I'm not a boxer. It's starting to get bloody.

You can buy a DVC AP either with or without blackout dates. The one without blackout dates is a $100 discount over the general public price. The one with blackout dates is exclusive to FL Residents & DVC Members. I'm grateful that there is a cheaper option for members who do not go during peak times (Easter & Christmas).

 

[bcrook]

You can buy a DVC AP either with or without blackout dates. The one without blackout dates is a $100 discount over the general public price. The one with blackout dates is exclusive to FL Residents & DVC Members. I'm grateful that there is a cheaper option for members who do not go during peak times (Easter & Christmas).

This is off topic, but the non blackout ticket is substantially more than what I paid in January 2015 (my current AP). Once again, a lot more for the same ticket, and now the possibility of less time in the park during the precious evening times. It looks very grim to me.

 

[DebbieB]

This is off topic, but the non blackout ticket is substantially more than what I paid in January 2015 (my current AP). Once again, a lot more for the same ticket, and now the possibility of less time in the park during the precious evening times. It looks very grim to me.

I agree, Disney substantially increased all the annual pass prices. They forced paying for photopass on everyone who buys AP's. The Gold DVC AP with blackout dates is a new cheaper alternative, not a replacement for the regular DVC AP.

 

[BigAlsGal]

Rabble rabble rabble!!

That is all.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Good question. They used to sell E-Ride Nights. Then they stopped. Now they provide free Extra Magic Hours.

The e-ride nights hit a max of $12 I think and that was back when on property rates were relatively comparable to off pepperty rates. Once they put that as part of the on property package room rates began to increase far beyond what off property rooms cost. If you consider how much more per night you pay just for that opportunity it's probably a lot more than $150. Disney doesn't do "free".

 

[kaytieeldr]

The e-ride nights hit a max of $12 I think and that was back when on property rates were relatively comparable to off pepperty rates. Once they put that as part of the on property package room rates began to increase far beyond what off property rooms cost. If you consider how much more per night you pay just for that opportunity it's probably a lot more than $150. Disney doesn't do "free".

At the same time, they increased the number of parks with extra hours for onsite guests by 300%, and added earlier morning access.

 

[Lucius Best]

At the same time, they increased the number of parks with extra hours for onsite guests by 300%, and added earlier morning access.

300% increase in EMH hours for onsite guests is pretty good, plenty to justify increases in WDW resort rates. But I view it as a "non-decrease". Also pretty sure that the number of parks also non-decreased 300% for offsite guests.

 

[Slapshot1188]

At the same time, they increased the number of parks with extra hours for onsite guests by 300%, and added earlier morning access.

Which is what you do to add capacity to service your customers. Over the last decade the increase in crowds has FAR exceeded the increase in attractions. Thus, you need to expand the hours those existing attractions are available to your customers. Far more time is spent standing in line on an average day now than a decade ago.That means far more people are in the parks which means far more revenue is being generated. A quick check of their financials would show that they had $10.7B in Parks revenue in 2010 while just 5 years later in 2015 it was $16.2B. Operating Income (so minus expenses) more than DOUBLED in 5 years to $3B!!!!

During that same time frame per room spending (room cost, food, merchandise in hotels) rose 32%!!!!

I'm all for a company making money, but do they really keep needing to nickle and dime folks and cut back on things when they doubled their profits in 5 years and pocketed a nice $3B last year?

 

[mom2rtk]

At the same time, they increased the number of parks with extra hours for onsite guests by 300%, and added earlier morning access.

How long ago was that? And what have they done for me lately?

(Yes, I know about SWL. I'll consider that in the equation once it opens).

 

[3DisneyFanz]

At the same time, they increased the number of parks with extra hours for onsite guests by 300%, and added earlier morning access.

It's still not an apples to apples comparison. The e-ticket nights were limited and it was a true cap because I remember times when it sold out. The EMH is unlimited which is why most "touring plans" tell you not to go there because of the increased number of people.

Having more is nice but you're paying a lot more than $12 a night over an offsite hotel for that benefit so it's not free and while it's still speculation I think we all know the survey was intended to get people ready for the pending $15 for that benefit.

Personally though at this point I don't get to take advantage of either one since I have a son who can't make the late hours and a wife that can't make the early ones.

 

[JimmyV]

Thanks for doing that! I hope you'll update this thread in late April for us.

I will. However, I just went back to do some double-checking, (because while my addition and subtraction skills are usually pretty good, I am not as strong or confident in my "non-addition" skills, and my original work was done in an airport on a tablet during a layover). After taking a deeper dive, things are actually a lot more severe than the original calculations show. In the past, there were several days when there were both am-EMH and pm-EMH on the same day, and I overlooked that. Also, I didn't pay attention to how many hours were provided in each EMH. I only looked at whether there were EMH at all. But it is worth noting the total of number of hours that are provided to guests to see if there has been any change there. I also looked at what those hours actually were. That too, matters. I only looked at 2012, 2015 and 2016 (to date), but here is what I found:

2012:
Number of days with pm-EMHs that spanned from:
8:00-10:00 = 0
10:00-12:00 = 0
11:00-1:00 = 0
11:00-2:00 = 3
12:00-2:00 = 0
12:00-3:00 = 8
1:00-3:00 = 0
Total number of days with pm-EMH = 11 with a total of 33 available hours.

Number of days with am-EMHs that spanned from:
7:00-8:00 = 13
8:00-9:00 = 7
Total number of days with am-EMH = 20 with a total of 20 available hours.
Easter fell on April 8. Number of consecutive days with am-EMH in the Easter season = 14 (from 4/1-4/14).

Total number of EMH opportunities in 2012 = 31.
Total number of days with both an am-EMH and pm-EMH = 4.
Total number of actual hours in the EMHs for 2012, both am and pm = 53.

****************************************************************

2015:
Number of days with pm-EMHs that spanned from:
8:00-10:00 = 0
10:00-12:00 = 0
11:00-1:00 = 0
11:00-2:00 = 0
12:00-2:00 = 4
12:00-3:00 = 1
1:00-3:00 = 3
Total number of days with pm-EMH = 8 with a total of 17 available hours.

Number of days with am-EMHs that spanned from:
7:00-8:00 = 15
8:00-9:00 = 4
Total number of days with am-EMH = 19 with a total of 19 available hours.
Easter fell on April 5. Number of consecutive days with am-EMH in the Easter season = 13 (from 3/29-4/10).

Total number of EMH opportunities in 2015 = 27.
Total number of days with both an am-EMH and pm-EMH = 1
Total number of actual hours in the EMHs for 2015, both am and pm = 36.


****************************************************************

2016: (As of today, March 31. Subject to change, but since Easter has passed, I doubt there will be any significant alterations):
Number of days with pm-EMHs that spanned from:
8:00-10:00 = 1*
10:00-12:00 = 1*
11:00-1:00 = 5
11:00-2:00 = 0
12:00-2:00 = 2
12:00-3:00 = 0
1:00-3:00 = 0
Total number of days with pm-EMH = 9 with a total of 18 available hours.
* Here is where it gets controversial. While the total number of days with pm-EMHs decreased modestly from 2012, and actually increased from 2015, 2 of those days, and 4 of those hours were very early in the evening when the park used to be open. This can be looked at two ways. Either this is sort of "cheating" when it comes to EMHs because they are overlaying them in hours when the park has always been open. On the other hand, some would say that EMHs before midnight are a great thing, as they are far more "usable" than, say 2:00 a.m.. I offer no editorializing here and only present the raw data. But I thought that this feature deserved to be pointed out.

Number of days with am-EMHs that spanned from:
7:00-8:00 = 1
8:00-9:00 = 8
Total number of days with am-EMH = 9 with a total of 9 available hours.
Easter fell on March 27. Number of consecutive days with am-EMH in the Easter season = 0. EMHs were held on 3/25 and are scheduled to take place again on 4/1. There were no EMHs on Easter, the day before, or the day after, let alone a string of 13 or 14 consecutive days.

Total number of EMH opportunities in 2016 = 18.
Total number of days with both an am-EMH and pm-EMH = 0
Total number of actual hours in the EMHs for 2016, both am and pm = 27.


The decrease from 53 total EMHs in 2012 to 27 total EMHs in 2016, as well as the almost complete abolishment of the 7:00-8:00 am-EMH are the most striking things here. We went from 13 days with 7:00 am-EMHs in 2012 to 15 such days in 2015 to 1 such day in 2016. And when looking at the total number of am-EMHs, we have gone from 20 in 2012 to 19 in 2015 to just 9 in 2016. Another thing worth noting is the complete abolishment of the 3 hour EMH in the evening. That used to be the norm, and now that has shrunk to 2 hours. More to come at the end of April.

 

[Nancyg56]

I will. However, I just went back to do some double-checking, (because while my addition and subtraction skills are usually pretty good, I am not as strong or confident in my "non-addition" skills, and my original work was done in an airport on a tablet during a layover). After taking a deeper dive, things are actually a lot more severe than the original calculations show. In the past, there were several days when there were both am-EMH and pm-EMH on the same day, and I overlooked that. Also, I didn't pay attention to how many hours were provided in each EMH. I only looked at whether there were EMH at all. But it is worth noting the total of number of hours that are provided to guests to see if there has been any change there. I also looked at what those hours actually were. That too, matters. I only looked at 2012, 2015 and 2016 (to date), but here is what I found:

2012:
Number of days with pm-EMHs that spanned from:
8:00-10:00 = 0
10:00-12:00 = 0
11:00-1:00 = 0
11:00-2:00 = 3
12:00-2:00 = 0
12:00-3:00 = 8
1:00-3:00 = 0
Total number of days with pm-EMH = 11 with a total of 33 available hours.

Number of days with am-EMHs that spanned from:
7:00-8:00 = 13
8:00-9:00 = 7
Total number of days with am-EMH = 20 with a total of 20 available hours.
Easter fell on April 8. Number of consecutive days with am-EMH in the Easter season = 14 (from 4/1-4/14).

Total number of EMH opportunities in 2012 = 31.
Total number of days with both an am-EMH and pm-EMH = 4.
Total number of actual hours in the EMHs for 2012, both am and pm = 53.

****************************************************************

2015:
Number of days with pm-EMHs that spanned from:
8:00-10:00 = 0
10:00-12:00 = 0
11:00-1:00 = 0
11:00-2:00 = 0
12:00-2:00 = 4
12:00-3:00 = 1
1:00-3:00 = 3
Total number of days with pm-EMH = 8 with a total of 17 available hours.

Number of days with am-EMHs that spanned from:
7:00-8:00 = 15
8:00-9:00 = 4
Total number of days with am-EMH = 19 with a total of 19 available hours.
Easter fell on April 5. Number of consecutive days with am-EMH in the Easter season = 13 (from 3/29-4/10).

Total number of EMH opportunities in 2015 = 27.
Total number of days with both an am-EMH and pm-EMH = 1
Total number of actual hours in the EMHs for 2015, both am and pm = 36.


****************************************************************

2016: (As of today, March 31. Subject to change, but since Easter has passed, I doubt there will be any significant alterations):
Number of days with pm-EMHs that spanned from:
8:00-10:00 = 1*
10:00-12:00 = 1*
11:00-1:00 = 5
11:00-2:00 = 0
12:00-2:00 = 2
12:00-3:00 = 0
1:00-3:00 = 0
Total number of days with pm-EMH = 9 with a total of 18 available hours.
* Here is where it gets controversial. While the total number of days with pm-EMHs decreased modestly from 2012, and actually increased from 2015, 2 of those days, and 4 of those hours were very early in the evening when the park used to be open. This can be looked at two ways. Either this is sort of "cheating" when it comes to EMHs because they are overlaying them in hours when the park has always been open. On the other hand, some would say that EMHs before midnight are a great thing, as they are far more "usable" than, say 2:00 a.m.. I offer no editorializing here and only present the raw data. But I thought that this feature deserved to be pointed out.

Number of days with am-EMHs that spanned from:
7:00-8:00 = 1
8:00-9:00 = 8
Total number of days with am-EMH = 9 with a total of 9 available hours.
Easter fell on March 27. Number of consecutive days with am-EMH in the Easter season = 0. EMHs were held on 3/25 and are scheduled to take place again on 4/1. There were no EMHs on Easter, the day before, or the day after, let alone a string of 13 or 14 consecutive days.

Total number of EMH opportunities in 2016 = 18.
Total number of days with both an am-EMH and pm-EMH = 0
Total number of actual hours in the EMHs for 2016, both am and pm = 27.


The decrease from 53 total EMHs in 2012 to 27 total EMHs in 2016, as well as the almost complete abolishment of the 7:00-8:00 am-EMH are the most striking things here. We went from 13 days with 7:00 am-EMHs in 2012 to 15 such days in 2015 to 1 such day in 2016. And when looking at the total number of am-EMHs, we have gone from 20 in 2012 to 19 in 2015 to just 9 in 2016. Another thing worth noting is the complete abolishment of the 3 hour EMH in the evening. That used to be the norm, and now that has shrunk to 2 hours. More to come at the end of April.

There is no arguing with this!

 

[mom2rtk]

I will. However, I just went back to do some double-checking, (because while my addition and subtraction skills are usually pretty good, I am not as strong or confident in my "non-addition" skills, and my original work was done in an airport on a tablet during a layover). After taking a deeper dive, things are actually a lot more severe than the original calculations show. In the past, there were several days when there were both am-EMH and pm-EMH on the same day, and I overlooked that. Also, I didn't pay attention to how many hours were provided in each EMH. I only looked at whether there were EMH at all. But it is worth noting the total of number of hours that are provided to guests to see if there has been any change there. I also looked at what those hours actually were. That too, matters. I only looked at 2012, 2015 and 2016 (to date), but here is what I found:

2012:
Number of days with pm-EMHs that spanned from:
8:00-10:00 = 0
10:00-12:00 = 0
11:00-1:00 = 0
11:00-2:00 = 3
12:00-2:00 = 0
12:00-3:00 = 8
1:00-3:00 = 0
Total number of days with pm-EMH = 11 with a total of 33 available hours.

Number of days with am-EMHs that spanned from:
7:00-8:00 = 13
8:00-9:00 = 7
Total number of days with am-EMH = 20 with a total of 20 available hours.
Easter fell on April 8. Number of consecutive days with am-EMH in the Easter season = 14 (from 4/1-4/14).

Total number of EMH opportunities in 2012 = 31.
Total number of days with both an am-EMH and pm-EMH = 4.
Total number of actual hours in the EMHs for 2012, both am and pm = 53.

****************************************************************

2015:
Number of days with pm-EMHs that spanned from:
8:00-10:00 = 0
10:00-12:00 = 0
11:00-1:00 = 0
11:00-2:00 = 0
12:00-2:00 = 4
12:00-3:00 = 1
1:00-3:00 = 3
Total number of days with pm-EMH = 8 with a total of 17 available hours.

Number of days with am-EMHs that spanned from:
7:00-8:00 = 15
8:00-9:00 = 4
Total number of days with am-EMH = 19 with a total of 19 available hours.
Easter fell on April 5. Number of consecutive days with am-EMH in the Easter season = 13 (from 3/29-4/10).

Total number of EMH opportunities in 2015 = 27.
Total number of days with both an am-EMH and pm-EMH = 1
Total number of actual hours in the EMHs for 2015, both am and pm = 36.


****************************************************************

2016: (As of today, March 31. Subject to change, but since Easter has passed, I doubt there will be any significant alterations):
Number of days with pm-EMHs that spanned from:
8:00-10:00 = 1*
10:00-12:00 = 1*
11:00-1:00 = 5
11:00-2:00 = 0
12:00-2:00 = 2
12:00-3:00 = 0
1:00-3:00 = 0
Total number of days with pm-EMH = 9 with a total of 18 available hours.
* Here is where it gets controversial. While the total number of days with pm-EMHs decreased modestly from 2012, and actually increased from 2015, 2 of those days, and 4 of those hours were very early in the evening when the park used to be open. This can be looked at two ways. Either this is sort of "cheating" when it comes to EMHs because they are overlaying them in hours when the park has always been open. On the other hand, some would say that EMHs before midnight are a great thing, as they are far more "usable" than, say 2:00 a.m.. I offer no editorializing here and only present the raw data. But I thought that this feature deserved to be pointed out.

Number of days with am-EMHs that spanned from:
7:00-8:00 = 1
8:00-9:00 = 8
Total number of days with am-EMH = 9 with a total of 9 available hours.
Easter fell on March 27. Number of consecutive days with am-EMH in the Easter season = 0. EMHs were held on 3/25 and are scheduled to take place again on 4/1. There were no EMHs on Easter, the day before, or the day after, let alone a string of 13 or 14 consecutive days.

Total number of EMH opportunities in 2016 = 18.
Total number of days with both an am-EMH and pm-EMH = 0
Total number of actual hours in the EMHs for 2016, both am and pm = 27.


The decrease from 53 total EMHs in 2012 to 27 total EMHs in 2016, as well as the almost complete abolishment of the 7:00-8:00 am-EMH are the most striking things here. We went from 13 days with 7:00 am-EMHs in 2012 to 15 such days in 2015 to 1 such day in 2016. And when looking at the total number of am-EMHs, we have gone from 20 in 2012 to 19 in 2015 to just 9 in 2016. Another thing worth noting is the complete abolishment of the 3 hour EMH in the evening. That used to be the norm, and now that has shrunk to 2 hours. More to come at the end of April.

Thanks for the very thorough rundown!

 

[JimmyV]

There is no arguing with this!

Oh, just wait...

 

[Delirium]

For those of you defending Disney, asking 'why not charge if they can get away with it'.....They are already charging for it! It's already built into the cost of the resort. This is their way of double-charging.

But, but all means, go down with the ship. Sure, some can afford it. But, most can't. And, the most ludicrous part of it is that it's a horrible deal. Given that Disney will oversell (and they will) and that it will take a good hour to clear all of the commoners from the park, you'll have at most 2 hours and experience lines as long or longer than the last hour of free EMH experience today.

I swear Disney has 'members' contribute on this board for the sole purpose of putting a positive spin on the propaganda.