Explosions and shootings in Paris

[NHdisneylover]

Switzerland is in the Schengen Treaty but not in the EU.

EU can not fine a non member state.

but why can the EU fine people for the Schnegen treaty when it is not an EU thing in the first place? I find that fascinating.

 

[pryncess527]

Improving our screening process doesn't mean halting all travel.

I am aware. Which is why I directed my question at a specific person who seemed to be suggesting far more than just an improved screening process for refugees. I'm curious how the poster i quoted thinks we should go about screening people who are trying to enter this country on a passport. How would that work, in practice? File travel documents months before booking a flight? Wait at the airport for screening at customs? It seemed like an impractical suggestion and I would like the poster I quoted to clarify what she meant. But thanks for trying to help.

 

[Geoff_M]

There is also the potential that the actions of Anonymous could damage ongoing intelligence gathering efforts on ISIS...

That is a real possibility. It wouldn't be the first time their "good intentions" have mucked things up for authorities trying to perform an investigation, if so.

 

[wilkeliza]

There is also the potential that the actions of Anonymous could damage ongoing intelligence gathering efforts on ISIS...

It's unlikely that ISIS will be using Twitter as a communication method that is anything more than a marketing or recruitment tool.

Pretty sure they'll be using at least basic encryption, but nothing as far as TOR

I hadn't even considered the dangers of that wrinkle.

Yep that is why the big intelligence organizations CIA, FBI, etc are saying while it is commendable they are doing more harm then good. They are pushing ISIS to the dark internet and when stuff gets pushed there it is much harder to track as the encryption and methods are harder to crack.

Also ISIS seems to be using an encrypted app similar to What's App to communicated. I'm not sure what it is but Anon Org has hacked that as well.

 

[NHdisneylover]

We accidentally drove into Germany on our last trip to Europe. True story. We had intentionally crossed the boarder into Austria, got lost, and half an hour later realized we were in Germany again. No clue when or how that happened. I love the open European boarders for the most part, but I was bummed that I traveled through four countries and only got one stamp in my passport. #firstworldproblems.

If you were anywhere near the Füssen area the border zig zags like crazy---we often go in and out again 4 or 5 times when going in about as straight of a route as you can through there.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Also, I read that when the massacre broke out during the concert in Paris, the band and crowd was singing along to a song called "Kiss the Devil."

I'll just leave that here.

I wish you would not "just leave that here" as I really cannot tell what you are trying to imply and hate to make assumptions about your intent based on random guessing.

 

[lizabu]

Well obviously their their tactics are not working. My religion is also one of peace but that does not allow me to bury my head in the sand and deny barbaric acts if they are committed in my midst. In our history there have been many young men who love peace who have been called to fight wars against tyrants and madmen. I am positive they hated doing that just as much as any Islamic person but responded when called. Muslims have no excuse for allowing this barbarism to come from their countries when they do nothing to combat them.

You may blame all parts of the world for having pockets of Islamic terror but their origins and headquarters lies in the Middle East. Other than not being vigilant and determined enough in stamping them out, I do not think we are equally responsible for their evil.

The KKK is a repugnant organization but there is a reason they are not committing acts of mass murder like ISIS or other terrorists who say they are doing so for Islam. Maybe we should examine why and how the scale and scope of their violence is not comparable. But remember one thing above all - one type of barbarism should never be used as a reason to deflect from the terror at hand.

It's true that ISISs headquarters are in Syria but if you remember how ISIS started I'm not sure how you can blame middle easterners. It's common knowledge that the US along with Britain and France wanted to take down Asaad and his regime because they believed if they took him out they would have a solid foothold in that region. So what did they do? They started funding and weaponizing the rebels. As they funnelled more and more money and weapons in then more and more fighters joined them. They got strong enough that they decided they no longer wanted to take orders from US, Britain and France and ISIS was born. Who is at fault and who are the victims? It seems like the 100,000 Muslims who have already been slaughtered by ISIS in the last four years are victims along with all of the recent lives lost in Paris and Lebonan, while the real bad guys are more people than the media would have you believe. And not necessarily the people you would think of.

 

[NHdisneylover]

My initial reaction to seeing that Anonymous was taking down accounts was positive--I do think this war must include a huge amount of effort spent stopping recruiting, training and coordination online.
Lots of very valid points are being raised here though about how lack of oversight could make things worse and not better.
It's too bad the group is not willing to work with law enforcement and coordinate efforts.

 

[cabanafrau]

It's true that ISISs headquarters are in Syria but if you remember how ISIS started I'm not sure how you can blame middle easterners. It's common knowledge that the US along with Britain and France wanted to take down Asaad and his regime because they believed if they took him out they would have a solid foothold in that region. So what did they do? They started funding and weaponizing the rebels. As they funnelled more and more money and weapons in then more and more fighters joined them. They got strong enough that they decided they no longer wanted to take orders from US, Britain and France and ISIS was born. Who is at fault and who are the victims? It seems like the 100,000 Muslims who have already been slaughtered by ISIS in the last four years are victims along with all of the recent lives lost in Paris and Lebonan, while the real bad guys are more people than the media would have you believe. And not necessarily the people you would think of.

What you've outlined is not quite my understanding of the trajectory of events. I hate to say only that, but I think that's all I can discuss here.

 

[robinb]

We accidentally drove into Germany on our last trip to Europe. True story. We had intentionally crossed the boarder into Austria, got lost, and half an hour later realized we were in Germany again. No clue when or how that happened. I love the open European boarders for the most part, but I was bummed that I traveled through four countries and only got one stamp in my passport. #firstworldproblems.

On our last trip to Strasbourg France we literally drove across the Rhine on a bridge into Germany. We wanted to visit the Black Forest.

 

[luvsJack]

According to several news sources, ISIS came from Al Qaeda and Al Qaeda came from a "network of Arab volunteers who had gone to Afghanistan in the 1980s to fight under the banner of Islam against Soviet Communism". That's from BBC and CBS.

But then I saw something the other day that said ISIS came from Al Qaeda and Al Qaeda came from the rebels we helped to fight Asaad. Of course he was an evil that needed to be fought too.

Either/or, they still come out of the Middle East.

 

[kandb]

It is impossible to do the vetting process on people from Syria and a lot of these other mid eastern countries. Their governments don't have FBI's and government agencies who follow and investigate the millions of the people that live there. That is reality, taking refugees in is just taking chances "if" they are radicals or will turn and become terrorists. There is a big article in the NY Post about an older gentleman that came to America from Syria and he explains "vetting" as a total joke. That is reality.

 

[erin1715]

I wish you would not "just leave that here" as I really cannot tell what you are trying to imply and hate to make assumptions about your intent based on random guessing.

My implication is that when you taunt evil and the devil, he tends to show up. And before this gets tossed my way, I am in NO WAY saying that these people deserved this horrifying death.

 

[gwynne]

My initial reaction to seeing that Anonymous was taking down accounts was positive--I do think this war must include a huge amount of effort spent stopping recruiting, training and coordination online.
Lots of very valid points are being raised here though about how lack of oversight could make things worse and not better.
It's too bad the group is not willing to work with law enforcement and coordinate efforts.

I don't think their motives are particularly noble. If they can do something that might appear to be on the side of good, they do now and then.
I think they probably make LE's job harder overall.

 

[erin1715]

Maybe LE, FBI, etc should look into trying to hire some of these Anon people. It seems they could really benefit from their intelligence.

 

[gwynne]

My implication is that when you taunt evil and the devil, he tends to show up. And before this gets tossed my way, I am in NO WAY saying that these people deserved this horrifying death.

This is an opinion board, that's your opinion.
I totally disagree with your statement I put in boldface. Frankly, I find this line of discussion pretty offensive.

I can't believe we're even mentioning whether or not the innocents deserved to die. Of course they didn't. And I believe attempting to tie these two things together is disrespectful to the dead and injured.

 

[wilkeliza]

My implication is that when you taunt evil and the devil, he tends to show up. And before this gets tossed my way, I am in NO WAY saying that these people deserved this horrifying death.

Seeing as this band has been around since 1998 and this song since 2004 and this is the first time anything terrible has happened while they sing it I have to imagine you are far stretching on that on.

 

[Jon84]

Maybe LE, FBI, etc should look into trying to hire some of these Anon people. It seems they could really benefit from their intelligence.

Anonymous are not doing anything that the intelligence agencies can't do already.

 

[asta]

I am aware. Which is why I directed my question at a specific person who seemed to be suggesting far more than just an improved screening process for refugees. I'm curious how the poster i quoted thinks we should go about screening people who are trying to enter this country on a passport. How would that work, in practice? File travel documents months before booking a flight? Wait at the airport for screening at customs? It seemed like an impractical suggestion and I would like the poster I quoted to clarify what she meant. But thanks for trying to help.

I think this is directed at me. I did not reply because I thought CPanther's reply was an adequate response. I am sorry that you expected more. I do think that what we are doing isn't working. I may not have the answer but that doesn't mean we throw up our hands because the solution is not easy or obvious.

What do you think the solution should be?

 

[Jon84]

but why can the EU fine people for the Schnegen treaty when it is not an EU thing in the first place? I find that fascinating.

Because they setup for the free flow across borders, and not signed up to the laws in how they are used as they are not governed by the European Parliment.


Edit: Don't know if it's been mentioned that the French Parliment agreed to extend the Emergency Status for 3 months.

I'd expect a lot more raids