Expelling child with ADHD

[C&G'sMama]

Any one have any experience with a school wanting to expel a child with ADHD? Our friend has just been informed by our school (a charter school) that her DD in 3rd grade (it's her first year at the school) is being expelled. She's only been at the school 3 months! She is a handful but her mom has her in therapy and has tried to work with the school. It really feels to me the school just doesn't want to deal with it. And again it's only been 3 months she's 8 for heaven's sake. The mom is trying to contact the local advocacy center and has talked to an attorney. I was just wondering if anyone here has thoughts. Isn't this an ADA issue? Thank you for any thoughts any of you may have on this matter. Please note: this child has never hurt anyone at school. She's just a busy kid.

 

[LauraVV]

Does she have an IEP? If not, I'd ask for one NOW. By that, I mean yesterday! Look at the law for IEP and 504 plans and disability accommodations.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

The fact that it is a charter school might make it subject to different regulations. I don't know all of the laws, but we have a charter school that opened 3 years ago in our district. The charter kids do not have IEPs and do not receive special services at the school. If they are in need of speech therapy or other services, they are put on a "service plan" and must attend their speech sessions at their home district school. Apparently, the parents who put their special needs kids in the charter school are made aware of this and can opt to attend a regular district school with an IEP instead. It's the same for the kids who live in our district but attend private schools. The district still has to provide services, like speech, under a service plan. But they don't provide and execute a full-blown IEP.

If this is true of the charter school in question, it may well be able to expel the child. I definitely do not agree with them expelling her as you described the situation, but charter school laws are definitely different than traditional public school laws.

 

[C&G'sMama]

The charter kids do not have IEPs and do not receive special services at the school.

We have children with IEP's, including my Aspie son. And it probably differs from state to state. And the interesting thing is there are other disruptive kids in the school, so she's not the only one. I find it interesting in CA that they don't have to accomodate the kids because I thought any school, even a charter school, had to. I realize in a specific district if your home school can't accomodate your child they can be sent to another school. I guess we'll learn a lot from this one. But it so maddening.

 

[bookwormde]

Check to see if the charter school has received any funding from the state DOE or any federal money from any agency, if so they should be following IDEA.

If they have then get an IEP if not the best bet is to transfer to a public school unless they have the funds to go to a private school that specializes in neurovariations.

bookwormde

 

[C&G'sMama]

Check to see if the charter school has received any funding from the state DOE or any federal money from any agency, if so they should be following IDEA.

If they have then get an IEP if not the best bet is to transfer to a public school unless they have the funds to go to a private school that specializes in neurovariations.

bookwormde

Charter schools are publicly funded schools. The state funding follows each student from their home district to the charter school. Like I said we've put her in touch with the local advocacy center, I have a relative that works for another organization that advocates for folks with disabilities and she is trying to get in touch with an attorney. It's hard right now with the holidays so a lot of people are on vacation. They just told her this past Thursday. She is fighting it, I was just wondering if anyone had any experience with a school trying to expel a kid. It is my understanding a school can't expel a kid with a behavior related to the disability and they have to exhaust all possibilities (which I don't see how they can argue they've done that in 3 months).

 

[bookwormde]

They should formally request an IDEA evaluation in preparation for an IEP, the school should have done this from day 1. Since it sound like there is no IEP in place now so the protections are limited except that if the school has failed in their mandate under IDEA there is usually pre IEP accommodations made due to there “oversight”

bookwormde

 

[C&G'sMama]

They should formally request an IDEA evaluation in preparation for an IEP, the school should have done this from day 1. Since it sound like there is no IEP in place now so the protections are limited except that if the school has failed in their mandate under IDEA there is usually pre IEP accommodations made due to there “oversight”

bookwormde

Thank you, that's good to know. I'll pass it on. Hopefully she can get through to the attorney and the center. One attorney she did talk to (but doesn't specialize in this) seemed to think she had a case has her child has been in therapy for a couple of years and the school was aware of the issues when she started.

And the other thing that frustrates me is she's not the only that has issues and the other kids are being helped. My daughter has been threatened a couple of times and hit once. The kids that did it are still there (which I don't have a problem with) What I have a problem with it seems like they are picking and choosing who they will help. Thanks for "listening" I just need someplace to vent. It just really frustrates me. Our kids started kindergarten together at a public school so I know this kid. And it's very upsetting. The mom is a single mom so any single moms out there know it's hard to try to work, get to school and fight. DP and I have had to fight for various things for our kids but we've always had each other to lean on. And DP is a SAHM so there is no issue of missing work. It's just so maddening to me.

 

[BeckyScott]

I think what bookwormde was saying is going to be the problem here.

The child can't be expelled for behavior related to a disability- well they can but it is quite a process- but the problem she has is that the child doesn't have an IEP already in place. In other words, the school has not formally recognized a disability (whether the child has already been in therapy and they should know about it or not, they personally haven't acknowledged it exists, therefore it does not exist) , so they are not required to treat her differently than a typical kid.

I believe the next step of the process (besides getting an advocate) would be for her to request testing, which they would have to do within 60 days. (that's calendar days, not school days) The law says that the child stays with their current placement until testing is completed and an IEP is written. During that process, they will request copies of her medical info, so they will be officially told of her diagnosis. If she does not agree with the school's conclusions, she can request independent evals. She's going to want an advocate the whole time so they know she's serious, and everything in writing. If it's not in writing, it didn't happen.

The real question is, how much of a fight does she want to take on? I'm not advocating walking away, but she should be aware of what she's walking into. It looks at this point that she's got two options- one is to get the attorney, throw a fit, prevail, and then send her daughter to a school where she (the mom) has pissed off everyone there and they don't want to deal with her and her kid might as well have a big flashing sign over her head every day... or two, get the heck out of there, let them "win", and find a place where her daughter will be treated fairly. It's a sad choice, but not that rare, unfortunately. I mean, I'd fight it too, but she has to know there can be a cost.

 

[Matt'sMom]

Does the child in question's school not provide parents with a "Student Handbook" at the start of the school year? If not, the school policies should still be available in print form, by request at least, so that parents have the opportunity to read them.

Our area schools each have a handbook that is updated and sent home at the start of each school year. In the handbook, they detail all of the potential 'disciplinary infractions', and the policies regarding probations, detentions, suspension, and expulsions. It is all clearly spelled out, and both parents and students must sign paperwork confirming that they have read and understand the school policies. There is even a section specifically addressing 'discipline for students with a disability', so that the policies are all up front and understood. And there are specific situations which would lead to the suspension of a disabled student, or their placement in an alternative educational setting.

We don't know what reason the school may have for expelling the student in question--OP did not elaborate. It more likely than not has little to nothing to do with the fact that the child has a disability &/or IEP... but is instead due to an infraction that, by school district policy, would result in expulsion for any student. If the parents do not understand the reason, then I would suggest they arrange a meeting with the school principle and district superintendant, etc., asap.

 

[bookwormde]

Matt’s mom, IDEA supersedes all local “student handbooks”. From the limited information there is a very good chance that if the child is ADHD or other neurovariant and does not have an IEP that it was related to lack of accommodations, lack of staff training and support and lack of environment modification. The “just a busy kid” is a good indication of hyperactivity or a “social throttle” issue both of which would be manifestations (of different neurovariations).

bookwormde

 

[mechurchlady]

I agree with BeckyScott.

I read on this board about loving schools where the child thrives because of the love, care and encouragement it gets. I think the kid needs to be in a school where there is the proper programs, willingness of the school to adapt to the child's needs, and that will do everything it reasonably can do for that child's future as an adult. My school sat me with the boys as I did not do well with girls and that is my brain quirks as I was out playing with Tonka trucks instead of Barbies usually. That was the school's way to adapt to my quirks. There are some really great private and public schools out there that would be better for the child.

I will be waiting for the bus that heads to that school and will join in a school staff wapping party. I hate when adults treat kids unfairly, now where is my Sunday newspaper as I will be rolling up some to wap the principal of that school.

 

[Matt'sMom]

I was really just suggesting that the parent(s) need to be aware of school policies, in order to understand why the school is electing to take disciplinary action. And it would be wise to find this out prior to going into the actual expulsion hearing. If indead there is a violation of the laws (IDEIA) on the part of the school, then the parent(s) can be appropriately prepared in advance to address the situation.

IDEA/IDEIA specify detailed procedures that school districts must follow for disciplinary exclusion of students with disabilities. These procedures are intended to ensure that discipline is not applied in a discriminatory manner and does not result in denial of educational services, but they do not prohibit disciplinary removal.

OP did not even state if this was anticipated to be a temporary expulsion, or potentially a long term change of educational setting. I was merely attempting to provide helpful advice, based on the very limited amount of information provided here. I thought it would be most productive for the parent(s) to find out the school policies, and the specific reason for the disciplinary action, first. And then move forward armed with that knowledge. It would be beneficial for them to know all the facts first, so that they can determine the most appropriate action to take in this situation. A knee-jerk, emotional reaction... as opposed to an informed, thoughtful, value based response... is rarely the most productive route to resolving any issue.

I do hope the OP's friend can resolve this issue in a manner that will lead to a contsructive outcome for their child. Going back to lurk mode for a while.

 

[livndisney]

I think what bookwormde was saying is going to be the problem here.

The child can't be expelled for behavior related to a disability- well they can but it is quite a process- but the problem she has is that the child doesn't have an IEP already in place. In other words, the school has not formally recognized a disability (whether the child has already been in therapy and they should know about it or not, they personally haven't acknowledged it exists, therefore it does not exist) , so they are not required to treat her differently than a typical kid.

I believe the next step of the process (besides getting an advocate) would be for her to request testing, which they would have to do within 60 days. (that's calendar days, not school days) The law says that the child stays with their current placement until testing is completed and an IEP is written. During that process, they will request copies of her medical info, so they will be officially told of her diagnosis. If she does not agree with the school's conclusions, she can request independent evals. She's going to want an advocate the whole time so they know she's serious, and everything in writing. If it's not in writing, it didn't happen.

The real question is, how much of a fight does she want to take on? I'm not advocating walking away, but she should be aware of what she's walking into. It looks at this point that she's got two options- one is to get the attorney, throw a fit, prevail, and then send her daughter to a school where she (the mom) has pissed off everyone there and they don't want to deal with her and her kid might as well have a big flashing sign over her head every day... or two, get the heck out of there, let them "win", and find a place where her daughter will be treated fairly. It's a sad choice, but not that rare, unfortunately. I mean, I'd fight it too, but she has to know there can be a cost.

Yep, we had this problem. We did not have an IEP so the charter school felt they could do what they wanted. I love a good fight LOL-but not at the cost of my child. I pulled my child out (as have many other parents I have found out) and have not looked back. As far as the school "winning" I would not look at in that way. In the end the school is loosing-they lose the funds for that child.

 

[C&G'sMama]

To all.

Thank you all for your input. Like I said, I was just looking for thoughts and a place to vent. I appreciate all of you giving me the chance for both. And it's hard to explain the whole situation. What's perplexing is we have been very happy at this school. Our daughter has a slight hearing loss where she needs special accomodations for testing which is honored (ok, most of the time but that's another story) Our son has AS with an IEP and they are very accomodating with him. This school is known for bending over backwards to help kids. We are in a large urban district and this charter school follows the demographic of the district whereby more then 80% of our kids receive free and reduced price lunch, and 80% "minority". We have a fair number of kids with issues and for the most part the school works with the families. But I do know of other kids who have been expelled. But I don't know their stories. This is only our 2nd year at the school. It all seems strange to me.

And I have to remember this is not mine, this is our friend's battle. But we are trying to support her and make sure she knows everything available to her. Another piece is the girl's twin sister just started there 3 weeks ago.
As far as leadership. There has been a change since last year. The head of the school hasn't changed but the "2nd" in command has. The middle school just opened this year and he's (the head guy) working on a high school. So he has given up some control of the lower school. And unfortunately I'm not sure the new person is the right person. But I keep thinking, he's new, give him a year. And then I think if I'm going to give him a year, shouldn't they give the child at least that? I think there are some growing pains going on.

So thank you all for your thoughts and well wishes for the little girl. I'll keep you posted. And if any one has any other thoughts or comments, please let me know.

 

[BeckyScott]

One thing I've noticed, just around here at least, is that the schools don't seem to take ADHD very seriously. You know, that whole thing about how kids w/ autism are just brats?- like that- only with ADHD. The schools don't want to IEP or 504 for it, even though they could. It seems to be one of those things where the school believes that if the child is drugged, that will fix the problem (not that they will say that, in those words). Or that they can put the child in a regular room with no modifications and the child will learn to adapt, because after all they'll have to adapt when they grow up. Well yeah, duh, all kids with disabilities will grow up and they will have to adapt as much as they are capable, but that doesn't mean they should just be tossed in the deep end as a child.

This just happened with my oldest DS, literally a week ago- the school was aware of his ADHD but had no intention of IEP'ing or 504'ing for it, fortunately (or unfortunately) when they were pushed to test him, they found other stuff going on, so he could qualify for an IEP with those things. They never even mentioned 504'ing for ADHD. Instead, the ADHD is comorbid with other issues, and those are the things they are willing to IEP. I also know that there are 5 kids in his class with ADHD, and while the teacher does some things automatically that are ADHD-friendly, none of those chidren have an IEP, because the other classroom has all the IEP'ed and para kids. Drug 'em up, that'll fix it.

So in other words, while a school district might do very good work with disabled children, it might not do well with ADHD. They just don't view it as the same thing.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

It sounds like there is something your friend is not telling you. If the school is as accommodating as you say with other students with disabilities, my guess would be that there is some sort of extenuating circumstance.

The school I want to teach at is a charter school. They are part of a well respected nation wide network (KIPP), and they do have a sped teacher at the school. That being said, all the kids and parents have to sign a contract of expected behavior. If they do not fulfill their end, they can be asked to go back to their neighborhood school. The goal of this particular charter school is to take inner city kids out of the failing schools and give them a chance to succeed. It is a fun, but highly structured environment. There is no room for the shenanigans you find at the neighborhood schools these kids are coming from. They are good at giving kids a second chance, but ongoing issues that disrupt the learning of others or lead to an unsafe situation are not tolerated.

Is your charter school the same way? Did you have to sign a code of conduct or some kind of contract? Is it possible this is the cause of the expulsion?

A charter school is not the same as a public school. Charter schools accept less public money for more freedom. Charter schools can be selective about who they accept, the reason why the school I want to teach at can ask kids to leave for not fulfilling the behavior expectations. It's been awhile since I TA'd the foundations of education course at my college, but if I remember correctly when we discussed this topic, charter schools do not have to accept students with behavior problems or other disablities. I'll have to look into that.

This is not to say that the school is right for asking the child to leave. Nobody can make that call based on the limited information available. Just trying to give you a different perspective on the situation.

 

[C&G'sMama]

No, there is no code of conduct that we have to sign.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Okay, I did look up special ed laws and charter schools, and they are not allowed to turn away students on the basis of IEPs and must follow an IEP. That said, charter schools are allowed to be more selective of who they enroll, so I'm not sure how that all plays out.

For instance, many charter schools focus on a particular area of study such as mathematics or music and you must meet a minimum requirement to enroll. The schools do not have to provide services at the physical building but can send you to your neighborhood school for services. I think there are even some out there that do not have special education teachers. If KIPP can send a student packing due to failure to follow the behavior code, my guess is that this would be regardless of disability. Though I'm not sure. It will be interesting to see what your friend's attorney says.

 

[C&G'sMama]

Okay, I did look up special ed laws and charter schools, and they are not allowed to turn away students on the basis of IEPs and must follow an IEP. That said, charter schools are allowed to be more selective of who they enroll, so I'm not sure how that all plays out.

For instance, many charter schools focus on a particular area of study such as mathematics or music and you must meet a minimum requirement to enroll. The schools do not have to provide services at the physical building but can send you to your neighborhood school for services. I think there are even some out there that do not have special education teachers. If KIPP can send a student packing due to failure to follow the behavior code, my guess is that this would be regardless of disability. Though I'm not sure. It will be interesting to see what your friend's attorney says.

And the other thing is different states have different regulations. I know NYSUT pushed for charter school teachers to be fully certified. No, the charter schools aren't union but NYSUT has a very powerful lobby in NYS and my understanding (I got this from a relative who used to be VERY active in the union here) is NYSUT agreed not to fight the charter schools in New York as long as certain things were put in place in NYS charter law.

So, yes it will be interesting to see what happens.