'Expansion' is the Wrong Term for What's Happening at HS

[rteetz]

This is why they need more than 14 acres and two rides. The attendance could seriously spike. I have been there a lot of times during SWW, it gets nutty. If you combine the SWW with the new Land...messy fun.

Well DHS needs the attendance spike and with the large budget set for DHS a lot of infrastructure work will be done because of the expected increased crowds. It's also unknown if SWW returns with season of the force starting next year. While yes Star Wars has enough content for its own park Disney wouldn't build an entire park on one IP.

 

[DDLand]

This is splitting hairs and nit picking. Remember that expansion can mean literal physical area, or it can be an expansion of the richness of the themed offering. The world becomes more immersive, therefore it's an expansion.

Additionally, I'd keep in mind both Toy Story and Star Wars already have a presence in the park...

It's an expansion of Toy Story and Star Wars last I checked.

 

[DDLand]

Fellow Disers I made a mistake moving this thread. I'm working with webmaster to have it restored to first page of TP&S Board. I apologise for a stupid mistake on my part. Sorry Danny

No worries, someone called for it to move to rumors/news so I see exactly how that could happen! Thanks for moderating!

 

[DDLand]

While yes Star Wars has enough content for its own park Disney wouldn't build an entire park on one IP.

I'd replace wouldn't with shouldn't, but remember what Martin has said about their thoughts on gate 3 in CA.

Marvel.

Luckily not going to happen for the foreseeable future, but crazy to even think about.

 

[Delirium]

Not upset with you at all Danny. And, just so everyone knows, Danny sent me a personal apology right after it happened. My irritation lies with someone that would take the time to ask that it be moved instead of just ignoring a thread if they didn't have an interest in participating.

 

[bear_mom]

For the record

• I'm not complaining. I created a discussion topic, taking an angle that had not yet been fully discussed on the board
• I personally happen to think One Man's Dream has a place at Disney World more than any other single attraction. Whether it's super 'popular' or not, it is the type of attraction that sets Disney apart from the Six Flags genre.
• No, I'm not the person that complained about New Fantasyland.
• I feel that if you had taken the time to read AND understand the thread, you would have realized this is not a negative thread at all, rather one that promotes thoughts on how it all is going to come together.
• A poster a few comments back hit the nail on the head regarding one of the main discussion topics I was trying to draw out. That is, How does the future HS, with FP+, disperse it's crowds with so many 'A' and 'B' level attractions, but so few 'C' &'D' level ones.

Do you really think a 14 acre expansion (Star Wars only) is only going to add two attractions?

I think they are going to announce more minor attractions as time goes on....

 

[bcrook]

Well DHS needs the attendance spike and with the large budget set for DHS a lot of infrastructure work will be done because of the expected increased crowds. It's also unknown if SWW returns with season of the force starting next year. While yes Star Wars has enough content for its own park Disney wouldn't build an entire park on one IP.

Well there is a difference between a 5th gate, and adding more than 14 acres and two rides. The Harry Potter island is 20 acres and couldn't hold the people. Now there is another 20 acres plus the Express. So 40 acres to absorb the crowds. This refurb seems a little on the light side if people are predicting Harry Potter numbers. So not a fifth gate but a much larger presence.

 

[bcrook]

Do you really think a 14 acre expansion (Star Wars only) is only going to add two attractions?

I think they are going to announce more minor attractions as time goes on....

I don't think 14 acres is that big. About the size of new Fantasyland. The Wizarding World of Harry Potter is 20 acres (at islands of adventure). That had one new ride and two repurposed rides.

Don't forget Star Tours is already there. I imagine they are counting that as part of the suite of attractions. So a Soarin screen type ride, millennium falcon ride, star tours, Jedi Academy, Cantina, a few more shops, some great theming, and plenty of places for meet and greets for the Star Wars Weekend type affairs. I would imagine themed meet and greet areas will be embedded in a lot of places. There has to be plenty of open space to accommodate the masses of people.

That sounds like 14 acres to me.

 

[skier_pete]

For the record

• I'm not complaining. I created a discussion topic, taking an angle that had not yet been fully discussed on the board
• I personally happen to think One Man's Dream has a place at Disney World more than any other single attraction. Whether it's super 'popular' or not, it is the type of attraction that sets Disney apart from the Six Flags genre.
• No, I'm not the person that complained about New Fantasyland.
• I feel that if you had taken the time to read AND understand the thread, you would have realized this is not a negative thread at all, rather one that promotes thoughts on how it all is going to come together.
• A poster a few comments back hit the nail on the head regarding one of the main discussion topics I was trying to draw out. That is, How does the future HS, with FP+, disperse it's crowds with so many 'A' and 'B' level attractions, but so few 'C' &'D' level ones.

OK - I may have misunderstood the topic, but reading through the thread not the only one. Your initial post sure sounded aggressively negative, so I don't really get that. (I also never said you were the same person that complained about NFL, only that the complaint reminded me of that.

I think people are reacting to "two rides" wrong. Disney isn't providing all the details yet, but just because there are two rides doesn't mean there's only two attractions. There could (and likely will) be some kind of stunt show that would replace Indiana Jones. There will be probably interactive elements as well. Also, Toy Story seems to be putting in at least one "c" attraction with the alien spinner. I also think that this is not the final limit of what's being added. The park area is listed as being 135 acres. The front part of the park that will remain makes up only about 50 acres. With 11 acres for TSL and 14 acres for SWL, that totals 75 acres, leaving 60 acres still available. I think you eventually get at least 1 or 2 more lands.

This isn't about expansion, it's about retheming the entire park, taking dead areas and turning them into revitalized. The back lot tour for instance has essentially been dead for 10+ years. The "Streets of America" area, other than for 8 weeks a year with the Osborne lights is a dead area. A lot of the area around muppets is worthless. So whether its an expansion or not doesn't matter.

How they disperse crowds will always be a problem when new attractions open, which will always be in high demand initially no matter how slight they are. It's sort of always been a problem with DHS anyways, because they only had 5 rides, and at least 4 of them would be considered tier 1. They put Tower of Terror as a Tier 2 because they HAD to put something. As they bring the new rides on line they'll shift that, but it's really the least of the problems this park will have for the next 4 years or so, as they continue to not have enough attractions to satisfy the crowds.

Rteetz is right that DAK is the fourth park, but DHS is already in 4th place in attendance, and that will likely shift more as Pandora and the other stuff opens, I would guess DAK will at least temporarily pass Epcot, though Epcot will also get a big bump next year with the Frozen ride. (I expect a 5-10% increase in Epcot's "first in" numbers.)

 

[Paigesmom2013]

This trip will probably be our last to DHS. With two little girls--and no adult interest in Star Wars--the expansion does nothing for us. Ading a slinky dog ride doesn't justify the cost of a ticket. I just hope Voyage of Little Mermaid and Beauty and Beast are still there in March.

 

[rteetz]

Well there is a difference between a 5th gate, and adding more than 14 acres and two rides. The Harry Potter island is 20 acres and couldn't hold the people. Now there is another 20 acres plus the Express. So 40 acres to absorb the crowds. This refurb seems a little on the light side if people are predicting Harry Potter numbers. So not a fifth gate but a much larger presence.

Potter really only added one new ride tho. In each expansion and then you have th train between the two. Star Wars will at least have two rides. Disney always has room for more expansion if they want to as well. I think the 14 acres has a lot to do with Disneyland also because they don't have much more than 14 acres to give at that park and they want the same size at both DHS and Disneyland. Total DHS is adding 25 acres of new things between Star Wars and toy story.

 

[rteetz]

I don't think 14 acres is that big. About the size of new Fantasyland. The Wizarding World of Harry Potter is 20 acres (at islands of adventure). That had one new ride and two repurposed rides.

Don't forget Star Tours is already there. I imagine they are counting that as part of the suite of attractions. So a Soarin screen type ride, millennium falcon ride, star tours, Jedi Academy, Cantina, a few more shops, some great theming, and plenty of places for meet and greets for the Star Wars Weekend type affairs. I would imagine themed meet and greet areas will be embedded in a lot of places. There has to be plenty of open space to accommodate the masses of people.

That sounds like 14 acres to me.

I'd like to also remind you that the design phase for Star Wars is not completed and construction isn't starting until 2017.

 

[bcrook]

This trip will probably be our last to DHS. With two little girls--and no adult interest in Star Wars--the expansion does nothing for us. Ading a slinky dog ride doesn't justify the cost of a ticket. I just hope Voyage of Little Mermaid and Beauty and Beast are still there in March.

If you read the original New Fantasyland press releases, the hype was all about the feature attraction - Voyage of the Little Mermaid, a new Dumbo area, A Princess Hall to dance with Cinderella and celebrate a birthday with Aurora. You can interact with Belle in the library and eat with the Beast in his Castle. I think they maybe tried to oversell that Little Mermaid ride. A few years later after much critical analysis - they decided to add the family hybrid coaster Mine Train.

Two things we can take from that...

1. The Slinky Ride as you call it , might actually not be as cool as we hope (ala Little Mermaid).
2. Maybe Disney will go back to the drawing board and realize they aren't getting as much out of this IP as they could and add another big ride.

Let's hope #1 is wrong, and #2 happens.

If you look at Pandora, I think a lot more was expected than the Soarin Ride, Its a Small World in Pandora, and a Mess Hall Quick Service. I think Disney tends to slowly subtract, rather than add surprise and delight as they say by dropping in unexpected options. For example in the Star Wars land, the Millennium Falcon experience very well might end up being a C type attraction. Disney definitely is trying to hype the Alien Spinner ride.

 

[bcrook]

I'd like to also remind you that the design phase for Star Wars is not completed and construction isn't starting until 2017.

Disney doesn't usually tease with a little and add more. They generally try to get as much big press out there as possible and scale back. Hype first, deal with reality later. So, I am not really counting on more announcements - unless there is another uproar and they are forced to go back to the drawing board and add something else like Mine Train. Or Shanghai where they are trying to not repeat the error of DCA.

I hope so.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Well I guess you could claim it's not really an expansion of Disneyland too considering the petting zoo was there and now it's a walk way and the train goes over behind it even now. . But it's semantics really. Call it expansion, call it revision, Call it addition. It's fine by me regardless because we're getting Star Wars stuff. Yeah!!!
Similarly at the Studios, of the attractions listed by the op, only three are ones I'd even give a thought to caring about losing. And two of those have long since run their course. And the streets of America is just an empty area I walk through to get to LMA. So again replacing what amounts to not much with something like Star Wars is fine by me even if they add zero acreage to the park. Call it revision or addition or expansion or whatever you like. Again semantics. It's fine by me regardless.

 

[MrInfinity]

How funny! I read the title of this thread and thought it was going to be saying "Expansion" doesn't do it justice, it should be called a complete rebuild, a new park, or something like that. Just goes to show two ppl can look at the same thing and draw completely opposite conclusions. Really when you think about it, this overhaul is so major that when it's done, around 2/3 of the relevant park (to me) will be in the rebuild, and only about 1/3 of the park original. That's essentially a new park but with taking RnR and ToT over. I'm pretty excited for this Expansion / rebuild / new park, or even redecorating or whatever the dissatisfied crowd wants to call it.

 

[skier_pete]

Another way to think of it - DHS had and has only FIVE rides. (Before TSMM it was only 4.The Backlot tour was never really a "ride" per se, it was a guided tour on a tram - so am not counting it.)

Current Rides are:
Toy Story Midway Mania
Great Movie Ride
Star Tours
Rock N Roller Coaster
Tower of Terror

They are adding at least 4 more rides with the expansion.
The Claw/Alien Spin
Slinky Dog Coaster
Millenium Falcon ride
Star Wars Ride #2.
(There may be more unannounced rides as well with further "lands".)

The other major part of the park are the shows. There are currently NINE shows at DHS:
Beauty and The Beast
The Muppets
Indiana Jones
Jedi Training Academy
Lights Motor Action
Voyage of the Little Mermaid
Fantasmic
Disney Junior on Stage
Frozen Sing-Along

There are RUMORS around them closing just about ALL of these shows. (Fantasmic and Disney Junior are the only ones I haven't read rumors about, and of course Jedi Training Academy will be changed/moved.) However, NONE of them have been officially said to be closing. It is quite unlikely that they would remove SIX shows (or even FOUR shows) and not replace at least SOME of them. Certainly if both stunt shows go, we will get at least one new one.

You have to remember what was said about DHS at D23 and expect to continue to hear it said - "we are moving from a park that's about the making of movies to a park that let's you become PART of the movie." So, right now the stuff that's definitely going to stay (RnRC, ToT, GMR, Theatre of the Stars, Sunset Boulevard...Fantasmic) will likely become part of a "Hollywoodland" themed area. Then you have a Toy Story Theme area, then a Star Wars theme area. Does anyone really think a park like this will only have THREE themed areas? I think you are likely to see something like "Islands of Adventure" eventually take over the park. Where there will be probably 4-6 different themed areas, each one devoted to an immersive theme. The master plan has yet to be announced, that doesn't mean there isn't one.

 

[Delirium]

How funny! I read the title of this thread and thought it was going to be saying "Expansion" doesn't do it justice, it should be called a complete rebuild, a new park, or something like that. Just goes to show two ppl can look at the same thing and draw completely opposite conclusions. Really when you think about it, this overhaul is so major that when it's done, around 2/3 of the relevant park (to me) will be in the rebuild, and only about 1/3 of the park original. That's essentially a new park but with taking RnR and ToT over. I'm pretty excited for this Expansion / rebuild / new park, or even redecorating or whatever the dissatisfied crowd wants to call it.

Don't get me wrong, most of the changes are exciting. I'm just skeptical how the finished product is going to handle the increase in crowds (and the increase will be significant). It seems to me that the same changes could have been made without closing so much of what was already there. I get that backlot tour had to go, but in my mind some of the other stuff could have been saved.

 

[MrInfinity]

Don't get me wrong, most of the changes are exciting. I'm just skeptical how the finished product is going to handle the increase in crowds (and the increase will be significant). It seems to me that the same changes could have been made without closing so much of what was already there. I get that backlot tour had to go, but in my mind some of the other stuff could have been saved.

Like what? Nothing that's getting axed so far really matters to me. We enjoy HS the least (and particularly my DW would be content to skip it)... You've got TSMM, TOT, RNR, and ST. And we go for the Star Wars Experience. Building a lightsaber, JTA, etc.

The relevant and current movie content is what is going to make or break this park. With the acquisition of Pixar and Lucas, and given that Star Wars will be the top movie of all time, and TS4 will be the top animated of all time, I really think they're going down the right path here.

IJ show we've done a couple times so that's not big to us.
LMA show we've done as well, so kill it.
SOA section is such a waste of space.
Backlot Tour we did plenty of times. It was okay but not all that.

Taking the current Star Wars ride and Toy Story ride and turning these into themed lands is going to change the whole feel of this park. It's really pretty unthemed right now with vast swathes of hot, empty concrete. This is just going to change so much of the feel of this park.

Attraction capacity? How can you argue with upping the capacity on TSMM and ading a SW coaster and TS coaster. (plus supporting rides, dining, and shops) The capacity will be greatly increased on the top-tier rides that people are trying to get FP's to. They'll find a way to re-inject shows to hold some of the people. When we went the LMA stadium was mostly empty anyways so the demand for that show is definitely not there.

 

[PetePanMan]

not an "expansion" and bigger crowds, I say cancel it