Excuse Me, “Legacy Fans”? We Might Just Be Disney’s Only Way Forward.

[MouseyMin]

I loved reading this article. It says a lot of what I have been thinking. Thank you Zoe!!

However, I see a contradiction here. On one hand, Disney wants families who do very infrequent trips but spend a lot of money on each. On the other hand, Disney is building more and more DVC units, which obviously cater to frequent guests. And DVC units have kitchens, which enable guests to spend a lot less on food. I wonder how these two guest types fit in Disney's plans?

 

[Lehuaann]

Does Disney actually call longtime parks loyalists "legacy?" I've never heard anyone from Disney use that term before, and I can't find it used specifically for that anywhere online.

I can’t find it either. It sounds like it originated from DL’s Legacy Passholders aka “unfavorable attendance mix” in earnings release.

 

[CarolynFH]

I loved reading this article. It says a lot of what I have been thinking. Thank you Zoe!!

However, I see a contradiction here. On one hand, Disney wants families who do very infrequent trips but spend a lot of money on each. On the other hand, Disney is building more and more DVC units, which obviously cater to frequent guests. And DVC units have kitchens, which enable guests to spend a lot less on food. I wonder how these two guest types fit in Disney's plans?

Maybe DVC isn’t important in terms of guest experience. Maybe DVC is important in terms of having DVC owners cover maintenance and operating costs of the DVC resorts, part of which Disney rents out for cash. And of course the purchase price of a new resort covers its construction cost (as well as marketing and sales expenses).

 

[ScottOKW2K]

I would be considered one of the Legacy fans and I'm also a DVC member and have been for over two decades I've also been an AP holder for most of this time period too. As I read this article two things occurred to me. One - even though I booked four trips this year I've still not purchased park admission. One trip has been completed and one is at the end of the month. I'll enjoy the resort and will find plenty of things to occupy my time but hitting a park currently isn't in the plans. Two - for most of this time I been "that Disney guy" - the one someone would seek out advice from if they were going to WDW. It occurred to me that it's been quite some time since that has occurred. Something to think about.

 

[_19disnA]

The article's author seem to interpret the term "Legacy Fans" as some sort of condescending title. I don't see it that way at all. If you substitute "Long-term Disney fans" would that be considered a negative reference as well? Many of the recent comments from top Disney officials make them seem out of touch with reality as I mentioned previously.

 

[Grasshopper2016]

There are both short-term and long-term considerations at play.

In the short run, the annual pass holder spends massively less per day than the once-in-a-lifetime visitor. With the parks overrun with people and attendance outpacing capacity in these times of staffing shortages, it is easy to see why Disney would try to create a more “favorable attendance mix” that maximizes the number of big spenders in the park.

But in the long run, the success of the parks in a generation or two will depend significantly on whether they are able to instill or maintain the sense of wonder and Magic in today’s guests—such that they will want to return again and again (if and when Disney is no longer able to fill the parks with first timers) and, more importantly, such that they will instill the magic in their children and grandchildren, creating more loyal lifetime fans down the road.

If the first timers are having the time of their lives, it might be less important in this regard to continue to cultivate the “legacy” fans. But if the first timers are turned off by the crowds, costs, lines, CMs, conditions, etc., then Disney will have a problem. Not today or even soon, so long as the revenge travel phenomenon continues to burn through saved up vacation budgets. (Though even in the short or medium run, people telling their friends and coworkers that Disney was overpriced, overcrowded, and disappointing could dry up the gravy train sooner than Disney is expecting.)

But in the future, if you alienate your current super fans, and you fail to cultivate enough new ones to replace them, you will find yourself in trouble.

I’m sure that Disney is doing ample surveying and feels confident that they aren’t alienating their guests. But the general trend among corporations these days—to which Disney is surely not immune—to prioritize short-term profits over all else, leaves me with something less than complete confidence.

 

[bsmcneil]

Some of the older rides like 'It's a small world' or that 3D Muppet movie haven't changed in probably 20 years. Small World now seems amateurish and outdates with those plywood/glitter covered cutouts.

Disney seems to overly focus on glitzy new rides and has apparently forgotten about all of the existing rides that remained basically the same after all these years.

Wait, what? It seems like sentences 1-2 clearly contradict the third. So, things are both too outdated and amateurish but also too polished and glitzy?

 

[bsmcneil]

To me, the distaste of the article and Josh's comments aren't so much about price hikes, or even a decreasing experience.

It's about mega-corporations like Disney making public statements the seem to double-down on their views that we, as patrons, are just a data point in their revenue stream. Terms like "legacy fans" and "unfavorable attendance mix" only highlight their lack of empathy and a waning connection to their customers.

Hell, my business is much less customer-dependent than Disney, and even we have signs around the building that say things like "Make the Client Feel Important".

Which is telling because one might think a more important perspective is "the client is important", right?

 

[DL1WDW2]

if they really want to encourage the highest spenders, then they should do what airlines, hotels, and some restaurants and stores do and have a loyalty program where you get “points” for every dollar you spend. The more points you have, the higher “tier” you get and the more/better perks you get.

Book a room at a Disney resort? Buy park tickets or annual passes, food, or merchandise? Get points.

Have Disney+, DVC, D23 memberships? Go on a Disney Cruise, or Adventures By Disney? Get points.

There would be different tiers based on how many points you have in a year. The basic tier could give you some incentives like food and merch discounts. Higher tiers could offer greater discounts, hotel upgrades, member only nights, advance or priority booking of services or ADRs, access to a members lounge, etc.

And there it is. A program that rewards the most loyal and biggest spenders without enabling “unfavorable attendance”. Isn’t that what they want?

I know there’s been a rumor that Disney is considering a “Prime” style membership program. I wonder if that would be something like this.

I thought this is what the original Disney Visa Card was.
I thought it would be as generous as my Hilton Honors American Express Diamond Card would be …In the beginning of loyalty subscriptions Hilton and SouthWest Rapid Rewards were incredibly fun and generous with incentive offers!

They really need to think about who spends money without the fake tracking Magic band …You do know we are paying top dollar for all the lousy cheap Disney tech . We should all be outraged cause of the true pressure on pricing technology being manipulated .
I realize it is not just Disney .
Best advice Find the simplest way to enjoy life . and keep taking advantage of Disney free on property stuff cause those days are dwindling.

 

[rwdavis2]

I’m sure that Disney is doing ample surveying and feels confident that are aren’t alienating their guests. But the general trend among corporations these days—to which Disney is surely not immune—to prioritize short-term profits over all else, leaves me with something less than complete confidence.

if one listens to the Disney Dish Podcasts they regularly cover surveys that listeners send in. Lately, Disney seems to be asking questions seeking out what’s negative about what they are doing.

 

[yorkieteacher]

I think currently Disney is still riding the crest of pent-up-demand. Legacy fans were the first to rush back after reopening, but now Legacy fans are rightfully complaining about the cuts in services. I go less frequently, and spend less time in WDW the last two years. But nearly of my adult children‘s friends consider Disney sub par with other vacations for the same amount of money, or a one and done when their children are in elementary school. I want to see if attendance and revenue don’t both drop in the near future. I went to Europe this summer instead of Disney and stayed longer for less money.

 

[RoseGold]

But nearly of my adult children‘s friends consider Disney sub par with other vacations for the same amount of money, or a one and done when their children are in elementary school.

Yes, I've planned a lot of one and done, and they did it all with the lightsabers and the fancy dinners and everything. I'm not sure they would have gone at all without Covid/quarantine issues. Those people are now tapped out in my circle and won't be back.

 

[ofcabbagesandkings]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, upper and middle class customers might not care what they spend but they do care about not wasting their time on vacation dealing with frustrations that seem to exist by design. There was no reason that Genie+ couldn't have been a paid version of FP+, which allowed people to plan ahead. There is no reason for them to have suddenly allowed people to hoard ADRs so that people can hold 2 or 3 Space 220 reservations within the same two hour timeframe. There was no good reason for cutting Magical Express, providing guests with a safe, easy, and relatively environmentally-friendly way to get to the resorts. If cost was the issue they could have started charging for it. They're not stupid, and everything from the illogic of having to get up at 7 each day to book only one LL to the crappy UI is not due to incompetence on the part of the C-Suite or Disney IT. It's hostile design, and I believe it's absolutely intentional. They WANT to drive the legacy guests away. The first timers, one-timers, and VIP tour guests, their "favorable mix" then get to enjoy less crowded parks while spending the most on food, merchandise, and Genie+. They're new so they don't know any better and they're determined to give their families the best experience and will pay whatever it takes to make that happen. So long as the line goes up, and the shareholders are happy, Josh D'Amaro has done his job. He took over in 2020 as head of parks, and every one of these guest-unfriendly changes has occurred under his tenure, none of which were necessitated by the pandemic.

 

[starry_solo]

if they really want to encourage the highest spenders, then they should do what airlines, hotels, and some restaurants and stores do and have a loyalty program where you get “points” for every dollar you spend. The more points you have, the higher “tier” you get and the more/better perks you get.

Book a room at a Disney resort? Buy park tickets or annual passes, food, or merchandise? Get points.

Have Disney+, DVC, D23 memberships? Go on a Disney Cruise, or Adventures By Disney? Get points.

There would be different tiers based on how many points you have in a year. The basic tier could give you some incentives like food and merch discounts. Higher tiers could offer greater discounts, hotel upgrades, member only nights, advance or priority booking of services or ADRs, access to a members lounge, etc.

And there it is. A program that rewards the most loyal and biggest spenders without enabling “unfavorable attendance”. Isn’t that what they want?

I know there’s been a rumor that Disney is considering a “Prime” style membership program. I wonder if that would be something like this.

That was the rumor as to what they were going to do with Disneyland APs but then, they rushed to roll it out without actually changing anything other than blockout dates, prices, and needing reservations.

 

[Jrb1979]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, upper and middle class customers might not care what they spend but they do care about not wasting their time on vacation dealing with frustrations that seem to exist by design. There was no reason that Genie+ couldn't have been a paid version of FP+, which allowed people to plan ahead. There is no reason for them to have suddenly allowed people to hoard ADRs so that people can hold 2 or 3 Space 220 reservations within the same two hour timeframe. There was no good reason for cutting Magical Express, providing guests with a safe, easy, and relatively environmentally-friendly way to get to the resorts. If cost was the issue they could have started charging for it. They're not stupid, and everything from the illogic of having to get up at 7 each day to book only one LL to the crappy UI is not due to incompetence on the part of the C-Suite or Disney IT. It's hostile design, and I believe it's absolutely intentional. They WANT to drive the legacy guests away. The first timers, one-timers, and VIP tour guests, their "favorable mix" then get to enjoy less crowded parks while spending the most on food, merchandise, and Genie+. They're new so they don't know any better and they're determined to give their families the best experience and will pay whatever it takes to make that happen. So long as the line goes up, and the shareholders are happy, Josh D'Amaro has done his job. He took over in 2020 as head of parks, and every one of these guest-unfriendly changes has occurred under his tenure, none of which were necessitated by the pandemic.

I have said it a few times and I will say it again for one it looks good them. The biggest one is til the unfavorables stop going nothing will change. You're proving you will accept everything they do. I know this is a Disney centric site but there is so many parks and places out there to visit.

 

[DCLMP]

There are both short-term and long-term considerations at play.

In the short run, the annual pass holder spends massively less per day than the once-in-a-lifetime visitor. With the parks overrun with people and attendance outpacing capacity in these times of staffing shortages, it is easy to see why Disney would try to create a more “favorable attendance mix” that maximizes the number of big spenders in the park.

But in the long run, the success of the parks in a generation or two will depend significantly on whether they are able to instill or maintain the sense of wonder and Magic in today’s guests—such that they will want to return again and again (if and when Disney is no longer able to fill the parks with first timers) and, more importantly, such that they will instill the magic in their children and grandchildren, creating more loyal lifetime fans down the road.

If the first timers are having the time of their lives, it might be less important in this regard to continue to cultivate the “legacy” fans. But if the first timers are turned off by the crowds, costs, lines, CMs, conditions, etc., then Disney will have a problem. Not today or even soon, so long as the revenge travel phenomenon continues to burn through saved up vacation budgets. (Though even in the short or medium run, people telling their friends and coworkers that Disney was overpriced, overcrowded, and disappointing could dry up the gravy train sooner than Disney is expecting.)

But in the future, if you alienate your current super fans, and you fail to cultivate enough new ones to replace them, you will find yourself in trouble.

I’m sure that Disney is doing ample surveying and feels confident that they aren’t alienating their guests. But the general trend among corporations these days—to which Disney is surely not immune—to prioritize short-term profits over all else, leaves me with something less than complete confidence.

Even with the so called revenge travel Disney is not as crowded as 2019. I expect attendance to fall further next year for a lot reasons.

 

[RoseGold]

There was no reason that Genie+ couldn't have been a paid version of FP+, which allowed people to plan ahead. There is no reason for them to have suddenly allowed people to hoard ADRs so that people can hold 2 or 3 Space 220 reservations within the same two hour timeframe. There was no good reason for cutting Magical Express, providing guests with a safe, easy, and relatively environmentally-friendly way to get to the resorts. If cost was the issue they could have started charging for it. They're not stupid, and everything from the illogic of having to get up at 7 each day to book only one LL to the crappy UI is not due to incompetence on the part of the C-Suite or Disney IT. It's hostile design

I don't disagree, but it's hostile design to the favorables. It doesn't even register in the cheap seats. I've ridden everything. I don't care about G+, so I'm not up at 7AM. I have an Owner's Locker, I don't care about ME or the luggage transfer anymore.

My first Disney trip, with a <2 year old was sheer magic. No car seats, they schlepped the luggage, rides were planned months ahead, wonderful. That's the kind of experience the favorables should be having and paying for. They'd be willing to pay for ADRs and pay for light sabers, and pay for dessert parties. And all of that is booked solid. I mean, why on earth was BBB closed so long??

It's the things the favorables want that are so poorly implemented. Well, except ILL$. That's going great, for them and shareholders.

 

[Narcoossee11]

Corporations are not your friends or family, regardless of how they like to dress it up with pixie dust and nostalgia.

AMEN..... stop thinking that ANY Corp is your friend.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

Corporations are not your friends or family, regardless of how they like to dress it up with pixie dust and nostalgia.

Yes. True. But, even if with the name calling, The Walt Disney Company, Inc. is going to have to continue to put up with these “unfavorable”, cheap, deplorable, “legacy fan” guests. Too bad for them!

 

[ofcabbagesandkings]

I have said it a few times and I will say it again for one it looks good them. The biggest one is til the unfavorables stop going nothing will change. You're proving you will accept everything they do. I know this is a Disney centric site but there is so many parks and places out there to visit.

Oh, totally agree with you there. We only have a trip booked because of the Galactic Starcruiser. We went to Universal for the first time ever as a family in April and my boys loved it. Included express pass with the hotel, we weren’t staying club level but the regular concierge was able to get us a table at a popular restaurant. With two boys who have aged out of Mickey and friends and who love Harry Potter and Nintendo, UO will be getting all of our theme park budget going forward.