Exchanging Resorts...

[scottb8888]

Anyone know of a was to "trade" points permanently from one resort to another without going resale. We would like to get rid of points in one resort and increase points in another?

 

[erionm]

Anyone know of a was to "trade" points permanently from one resort to another without going resale.

If you really want a different home resort, you would have to sell your current one and purchase the desired one.

 

[MrInfinity]

I'm not an expert on retitling property... But couldn't you add a person to your title? If someone got a new girlfriend and wanted to add her to his property, that's legit. Once she's added, you can eventually take yourself off. It would take time -- and two title changes per contract which would kill the value in doing this with fees... but isn't it theoretically possible to trade in such a way that Disney cannot ROFR?

Heck you could get married. Then split up. Divide the property amicably however you like.
Just thinking outside the box.
I would just sell your contract and buy the one you want.

 

[scottb8888]

THat's not what I mean... for instance I would like to exchange all my ownership in SSR for ownership in BWV.

 

[erionm]

THat's not what I mean... for instance I would like to exchange all my ownership in SSR for ownership in BWV.

No way to change home resorts without selling the one you don't want and purchasing the one you do want.

 

[MrInfinity]

THat's not what I mean... for instance I would like to exchange all my ownership in SSR for ownership in BWV.

Not thru Disney. It would have to involve some sort of transaction between you and someone else.

 

[drusba]

Not possible through Disney. Possible otherwise but unlikely, e.g., what are the chances of finding someone who has both the desire to exchange and and an amount of BWV points you could accept as being equal in value to your SSR points. It would be a real estate transaction for which the parties would need to have contracts designating the monetary value of the exchange, have a closing, and issue new deeds. Moreover, Disney would probably have a right of first refusal although I am not sure how it would work with an exchange transaction. It can legally be done. If it were a business transaction or exchange of investment properties, it even has an IRS section, 1031, devoted to it because exchanges of business/investment propereties is a method of deferring capital gains taxes.

 

[Dean]

Anyone know of a was to "trade" points permanently from one resort to another without going resale. We would like to get rid of points in one resort and increase points in another?

Some timeshare do this for a fee, usually a large one, but not DVC. Unless you just had someone who wanted to do the same thing, it's usually best just to sell and buy but you're paying extra to do so in terms of a 10% commission plus the closing and any extras along the way like dues. On a 200 point contract you'd lose about $3K not counting the price differences between the 2. Sometimes just doing an add on at the other resort is the best option. Even when you find someone, often one party is more attached to what they own than the other $$$ wise. Basically one tries to take advantage of the other. I've done this with a non DVC timeshare for a DVC contract and had several other discussions of possible permanent trades. It's not worth the aggravation for minimal savings unless it just falls into your lap otherwise.

 

[supersnoop]

I'm not an expert on retitling property... But couldn't you add a person to your title? If someone got a new girlfriend and wanted to add her to his property, that's legit. Once she's added, you can eventually take yourself off. It would take time -- and two title changes per contract which would kill the value in doing this with fees... but isn't it theoretically possible to trade in such a way that Disney cannot ROFR?

Heck you could get married. Then split up. Divide the property amicably however you like.
Just thinking outside the box.
I would just sell your contract and buy the one you want.

Wouldn't that be considered fraud? It's the intent, not the mechanism, that matters.

 

[supersnoop]

THat's not what I mean... for instance I would like to exchange all my ownership in SSR for ownership in BWV.

Sell SSR and buy BWV. The only way to sell is through a broker (i.e. The "resale" market). You can buy BWV from Disney, but it would cost you ~$70/point extra.

 

[MrInfinity]

Wouldn't that be considered fraud? It's the intent, not the mechanism, that matters.

Perhaps, I don't know. Which part? Titling a friend onto your contract? Or titling yourself off? If you aren't avoiding taxes because there's no capital gain... is it fraud? I could see if this was done to avoid taxes, yeah. But people get married and/or separated all the time to optimize how tax laws affect them or claim residency in cheaper states. There are also gifting options. As long as you aren't exceeding your yearly tax-free gift limits...

 

[supersnoop]

Perhaps, I don't know. Which part? Titling a friend onto your contract? Or titling yourself off? If you aren't avoiding taxes because there's no capital gain... is it fraud? I could see if this was done to avoid taxes, maybe. But people get married and/or separated all the time to optimize how tax laws affect them or claim residency in cheaper states. There are also gifting options. As long as you aren't exceeding your yearly tax-free gift limits...

This part:

but isn't it theoretically possible to trade in such a way that Disney cannot ROFR?

Intentionally changing the title in such a way specifically to avoid the contractual obligation of ROFR. Since we're talking about real estate, I imagine this could carry criminal, as well as civil, penalties.

 

[MrInfinity]

This part:
Intentionally changing the title in such a way specifically to avoid the contractual obligation of ROFR. Since we're talking about real estate, I imagine this could carry criminal, as well as civil, penalties.

Right, but aren't there ways to do this legally? People gift things in such a way as to specifically avoid tax liability all the time. That is not a crime, as long as you stay w/in the rules. Can you think of unconventional ways to exchange property that are not illegal?

 

[supersnoop]

Right, but aren't there ways to do this legally? People gift things in such a way as to specifically avoid tax liability all the time. That is not a crime, as long as you stay w/in the rules. Can you think of unconventional ways to exchange property that are not illegal?

You're building a straw-man now. Of course there are ways to exchange property legally. And there are ways to transfer probably in ways not subject to ROFR when it's a true gift (although you still need the ROFR waiver in order to file the transferred deed).

But when you sell or trade a DVC contract, it is subject to ROFR. And your recommendation was to transfer property, why receiving compensation, but avoiding ROFR. That's why you get crosswise with Disney and, potentially, the law.

 

[MrInfinity]

And there are ways to transfer probably in ways not subject to ROFR when it's a true gift. But when you sell or trade a DVC contract, it is subject to ROFR. And your recommendation was to transfer property, why receiving compensation, but avoiding ROFR. That's why you get crosswise with Disney and, potentially, the law.

I didn't make a recommendation. I asked if it was possible, then you asked if it was fraud. I don't know. Put yourself and a close friend/family in a room. You each own points that you consider equal in value, say 100 BCV and 100 BWV. Do you think a person with good knowledge of property law could find a way to get those exchanged, if both were interested in doing so, without breaking any laws? I would think a creative person could find a way.

You also said the intent matters more than the mechanism. I disagree there. If someone gifts property to avoid taxes, it doesn't matter that they're intending to pay less tax as long as their mechanism is one that is legal. It can be "this is for my loving son" or "this is to lower my tax liability". You get your limit -- The intent is subjective and doesn't matter.

 

[Dean]

Right, but aren't there ways to do this legally? People gift things in such a way as to specifically avoid tax liability all the time. That is not a crime, as long as you stay w/in the rules. Can you think of unconventional ways to exchange property that are not illegal?

No there isn't other than if it's a true gift. DVC will treat each as independent transactions AND they will force you to put a value on each before they will give a waiver. As I stated, I've actually done this non DVC to DVC. But to change the title with the intent of bypassing this issue would be fraud as would doing so without a disclosed contract if there were an exchange of funds. If one simply wants to give it to another then no it might not be fraud if done correctly.

 

[supersnoop]

You each own points that you consider equal in value, say 100 BCV and 100 BWV. Do you think a person with good knowledge of property law could find a way to get those exchanged, if both were interested in doing so, without breaking any laws? I would think a creative person could find a way.

If there is consideration, then it has to go through ROFR and Disney can take it. Period. Getting "creative" doesn't make it legal.

 

[DVC Doctor]

THat's not what I mean... for instance I would like to exchange all my ownership in SSR for ownership in BWV.

The odds of finding a BWV that would want to swap for SSR is low, but you can post a message somewhere.

I would advise selling your SSR and buying a BWV as that is easier.