Every Wish That We Put Into Motion.... (comments welcome!)

[Herding_Cats]

80% chance of thunderstorms tomorrow morning. Glad I haven't pre-registered yet (procrastination pays off some times!) and "wasted" $45.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Checked the weather multiple times during the night when the baby got up (which lately has been 2-3x a night and it is EXHAUSTING) and I had a little bit of hope that there would be a few hours of gap around race time so I left my alarm set for 6am. And then checked the radar again when my alarm went off to discover that not only would there not be a morning break, it’s going to rain (and intermittently thunderstorm) all day today. And still get up to 80 by noon. Seems like a perfect opportunity to feel like I’m running a race in Fl, huh? I’m not crazy though, and when DH gets home from working soon, I’m heading to the basement to run this dang half on the treadmill. I’m not gonna lie, I’m not looking forward to it since I’ve gotten very used to running outside with all of its naturally occurring distractions.

 

[Herding_Cats]

While I was really hoping to go do the race (it does look like they ended up running it, but I wasn’t very thrilled with the idea of 90min in the car and $45 for something that might get cancelled half way though) I wasn’t too sad that it was pouring rain this morning. And let me be clear, I would probably not have done all 13 miles on my treadmill, sooooo.....

Ended up doing my run outside. But I got started 45min later than I wanted to, and that ended up being a very bad thing because it got hot. And humid. And holy crap was this run awful. I don’t get started until around 11:45 and that was a mistake. It was so bad. My legs were just heavy and blah from the get go, and I was hoping that after 3 or so miles I would be warmed up and my body would wake up. Because the baby has been sleeping SO badly (we were up 3? 4? times last night/every night this week) I was tired from the beginning, and while my first 4ish miles, and the “out” portion went pretty well, the “back” ate me alive. I made a bathroom stop at mile 6 (paused my watch) and things pretty much went south from that point. And I have a big blister on the tip of my 2nd toe now.


Nutrition: gu at around mile 3 and 1/2 of another one (with caffeine) that I kind of picked at from 7-8. Drank approximately 30oz of water during the run. Had dh meet me on a bike with a Gatorade at mile 10 and sipped on that until about mile 12.

T + D= 153
Feels like 86
74% humidity
Finished in 2:51:19 (which is slower than I ran in May. Booooooo)
Average pace 13:05
Switched to 2:30/0:30 at the halfway point until I got to the hill that last 3/4 of a mile and walked up that. And from that point, I no longer cared about my time or my pace and pretty much only cared about finishing any way possible, and just walked or ran based on how I felt. My right hip/flute started to hang up when I pushed off for about a mile and a half at mile 9, and my hips kept trying to twist that way to compensate. My hip flexors got annoyed. My quads would randomly tingle.

One thing that went better than my last half is that while my feet got very tired and a little sore, it was not anywhere close to as bad as it was in May

I’ll add more if I think about it, or if there’s info I missed.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Congrats on getting it done. I don't believe I've run a race in T+D 153 ever before. That's really really hot. So kudos for powering through. Pull back on the training for the next week or so to allow some recovery given this was harder than expected. Also, don't let this be a hit to the confidence. A temp like this is highly unlikely for October or Disney.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Pull back on the training for the next week or so to allow some recovery given this was harder than expected. Also, don't let this be a hit to the confidence. A temp like this is highly unlikely for October or Disney.

Im not going to lie. It was really messing with my head that it was so hard. And it still is today. The logic side of me says “it was so hot, you probably should’ve cut it at 10, this doesn’t mean oct/MW will be awful” but the emotional side of me is trying to say that this is a signal that I’m taking on more than I should, I’m not running enough, etc. I’ll probably walk my 2mi EAs today and tomorrow and see how things feel on Thursday for the scheduled 6-miler.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Im not going to lie. It was really messing with my head that it was so hard. And it still is today. The logic side of me says “it was so hot, you probably should’ve cut it at 10, this doesn’t mean oct/MW will be awful” but the emotional side of me is trying to say that this is a signal that I’m taking on more than I should, I’m not running enough, etc. I’ll probably walk my 2mi EAs today and tomorrow and see how things feel on Thursday for the scheduled 6-miler.

I totally understand. I've been in that headspace as well. Just remember that no one run defines you and your abilities. A race is not always indicative of what we're capable of. That's why I like to look at races as celebrations of the training rather than the assessment of the plan. I celebrate making it to that place and putting myself in position to succeed, but accept knowing that I can't control the conditions of the race which can easily make things 100x harder than if the race were held a week ago or a week ahead. But all this comes after 9 years of experience of beating myself up after race experiences that were less than I expected. Learning how to evaluate not just race day, but all of training, is something that has made the entire process more enjoyable for me. Just trying to put context behind it all. I'm confident there are better races ahead.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Sounds like I’m going to be the team shuttle (for most of our team since I have a lot of kids ) for the local team relay marathon race tomorrow. The CC coach/race director says there are around 70 teams signed up. It’s 4 5-mile legs and 1 10k leg (that our team is splitting in half with 2 8th grade boys.). I looked up team results from 2019 and one of the men’s teams (there are men’s, women’s, coed, and individual categories, grouped by cumulative age I think??) “Playmakers NB Elite” ran it in like 2:21. I’m estimating the team I’m driving will be somewhere around the 3-3:30 mark.

 

[Livelovedance]

Sounds like I’m going to be the team shuttle (for most of our team since I have a lot of kids ) for the local team relay marathon race tomorrow. The CC coach/race director says there are around 70 teams signed up. It’s 4 5-mile legs and 1 10k leg (that our team is splitting in half with 2 8th grade boys.). I looked up team results from 2019 and one of the men’s teams (there are men’s, women’s, coed, and individual categories, grouped by cumulative age I think??) “Playmakers NB Elite” ran it in like 2:21. I’m estimating the team I’m driving will be somewhere around the 3-3:30 mark.

Good luck to your team! Sounds like a fun race experience!

 

[Herding_Cats]

Looks like I missed my wrap up last week outside of my "half" attempt.

Monday (8/2) was 4 miles EB plus strides on the treadmill. I don't recall why, but I'm guessing it was either storming or a billion degrees outside.

Tuesday (8/3) 3mi EB plus strides.

Thursday (8/5) 3mi EA from the looks of my pace. Super hot day again.

Friday (8/6) 2mi EA. Well....it was SUPPOSED to be EA, but this was the day that our XC/summer running club does their annual lighthouse run, and I didn't get left as early as I wanted for the run, and we HAD to be left by a specific time, so it ended up be 2mi of almost Marathon tempo. Oops! It felt really good though, if that matters.

Sunday (8/8) a NOT GREAT half marathon. Pace ended up averaging 13:05 which I feel like is a trash pace for what I was supposed to do, but there were a lot of other things (mainly weather) that contributed to this. So I'm trying to look forward and not let it get to me too much.

CURRENT WEEK:

Monday and Tuesday were supposed to be 2mi EA runs, but I didn't do either of them. DS1 started XC practice, which is at 8am, so I'm ending up getting up at 6 (or 530am) with the baby. *sigh* And Tuesday we ended up doing our big back to school clothes shopping trip, and I did do a lot of walking.

Wednesday: scheduled off day

Thursday: 6mi EB. This was on the treadmill again and a complete slog. Pace was awful. My left leg/calf and ankle wasn't super happy with me and I ended up walking the last mile. Kind of expected it as it was the first run after the half on Sunday.

Friday: 4 miles EA. It was only about 75 on Friday and it felt GREAT. AND, my average hr was 143, when it's usually in the low 150s. My VO2max bumped up another point, but how this run FELT did a lot for my mental stuff.

Saturday: scheduled off day, but drove one of the vehicles for our local marathon/marathon relay. The individual marathon runners started at 7am, and the team marathon started at 8am. The team marathon is 4 5-mile legs and 1 10k leg (that our team is split in half with 2 8th grade boys, one of whom is DS2.) We had some last minute changes for who was going to run which leg, and the local newspaper sports reporter ran our 2nd leg (which is the hardest and has the most hills) instead of the first so that he could get start pictures and then get back in time to take more "during" and finish pics. DS1 struggled a bit with his 3rd leg, and DS2 did pretty much how I thought he would for his 5k portion. All in all, their team won their "age division" of 90-114 (they use cumulative team member ages) thanks to the bump from the newspaper reporter, and finished in around 3:08:00. I'll update it when the results get posted.


48 days until the Sleeping Bear Marathon. I think this is one of my peak weeks coming up? It's a lot of miles for me, and should be interesting to see how things go as it's supposed to be in the 80s every day and DS1 will be at XC camp, which means I won't leave DD at home and run in the morning. So I'm either going to push a stroller, or break out the treadmill more than I'd like.

 

[Herding_Cats]

So I’m considering doing my Friday long run (9mi LR + 1mi M tempo) in all intervals. So my question becomes, should I all of my EA/B runs as intervals this week also?

after my half in May and last weekend’s debacle, I’m wondering if the intervals would help push back that feeling I get at around mile 8 where my body just doesn’t wanna move any more

 

[DopeyBadger]

So I’m considering doing my Friday long run (9mi LR + 1mi M tempo) in all intervals. So my question becomes, should I all of my EA/B runs as intervals this week also?

Doesn't have to be if you don't want to. I know runners that do continuous runs during the week and then do intervals for their long runs. So if you do a classic Galloway LR pace, then you're aiming for a 13:55 min/mile (M Tempo + 2 minutes). I typically like to see runners do their "run" pace of the run/walk around their LR pace. So keep the running at 13:00 min/mile and add structured walking breaks to make the average closer to a 13:55 min/mile. What kind of duration for run/walk do you plan on doing?

after my half in May and last weekend’s debacle, I’m wondering if the intervals would help push back that feeling I get at around mile 8 where my body just doesn’t wanna move any more

Possibly. There are some that are better predisposed to run/walk intervals. They tend to be speedsters. Tons of speed to burn, but lack the endurance.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Doesn't have to be if you don't want to. I know runners that do continuous runs during the week and then do intervals for their long runs. So if you do a classic Galloway LR pace, then you're aiming for a 13:55 min/mile (M Tempo + 2 minutes). I typically like to see runners do their "run" pace of the run/walk around their LR pace. So keep the running at 13:00 min/mile and add structured walking breaks to make the average closer to a 13:55 min/mile. What kind of duration for run/walk do you plan on doing?

There are some that are better predisposed to run/walk intervals. They tend to be speedsters. Tons of speed to burn, but lack the endurance.

I was going to try to keep my LR pace though the duration of the interval, which means the run portion would be faster than LR...but I’m reading your comment as it should be slower? Or just for Galloway methodology? I was thinking about starting with 90/30 intervals and see how its going after about 2 miles. But I’m not necessarily attached to that

as far as being a speedster, probably not a good descriptor for me.



I ran my 4.5 miles of EB (plus strides) today and ran all of it too fast. I was expecting mile 3-4 to be faster because that’s when I did the strides, but all of it was more like slightly too fast LR pace. I’m going to pay for that come Tuesday.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I ran my 4.5 miles of EB (plus strides) today and ran all of it too fast. I was expecting mile 3-4 to be faster because that’s when I did the strides, but all of it was more like slightly too fast LR pace. I’m going to pay for that come Tuesday.

It'll be a lesson learned. One I've learned plenty of times myself over the years.

I was going to try to keep my LR pace though the duration of the interval, which means the run portion would be faster than LR...but I’m reading your comment as it should be slower? Or just for Galloway methodology? I was thinking about starting with 90/30 intervals and see how its going after about 2 miles. But I’m not necessarily attached to that

Yep, slower. The reason I like to put the intervals LR average pace at slower than LR continuous pace is to keep you from going too fast on the run portions of the run/walk. You could easily run those too fast. So despite the average pace still being LR pace continuous pacing, your body will perceive the workout differently than intended because of the run portions being faster than LR. So to keep everything in the correct area, I recommend following the Galloway method for the LR intervals pace which is M Tempo + 2 min, but keeping the run portion to the same LR pace you were already doing. It's just now adding in some intermittent structured walking breaks. Despite going a min/mile slower this will not inhibit your progress because the 100% aerobic range is quite large. You'd have to go nearly 5 min/mile slower than 5k pace before you'd be going too slow. Based on our calcs that's around a 15:30 under ideal conditions.

I'd agree that 90/30 is a good place to start. My run/walk calculator suggested 95/30 at 13:00/18:00 pace.

as far as being a speedster, probably not a good descriptor for me.

It's relatively speaking. So you excel at short distance track work like 200m/400m rather than long distance races like 5k/10k. You don't personally have to be a speedster as it relates to others, but just comparatively against yourself.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Going to update this each day I run this week because it’s a lot of miles for me and I’ll forget a lot by Sunday.

today was 3 15min T intervals with a 4min rest and then 4 150m R intervals with a 2 minute recovery. 1 mile WU/CD on each end. Ended up being about 7.5 miles in 1:35:ish. I did all of it on the treadmillUsed a new Spotify station in an attempt to get my cadence higher since I usually hang out at around 165. I managed to get it up to about 172 during the run portions of the intervals, and it felt hard. The T intervals felt really awkward at that cadence...like my stride length to make it work was not what my body wanted to do.

not gonna lie...those T intervals sucked and I was not sorry to be done with them. Lots of mind games to get through all 15 minutes, and make it to the half way point of the 2nd one so I could convince myself that now I HAD to do the rest of them. The R intervals were much nicer (the cadence and stride felt a lot better, less choppy.)

SIL and her family are tentatively planning on coming out on Friday for dinner and we are going to try doing our Long run on the trail the marathon is going to be on. Wish us luck because it’s supposed to be in the 80s all week, so it’s gonna be a warm start and a late finish. I’m a bit anxious about the elevation gain, and we are both anxious about finishing the race.

 

[Herding_Cats]

And also I’m starving now. So hungry.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Used a new Spotify station in an attempt to get my cadence higher since I usually hang out at around 165. I managed to get it up to about 172 during the run portions of the intervals, and it felt hard. The T intervals felt really awkward at that cadence...like my stride length to make it work was not what my body wanted to do.

It'll definitely feel that way in the beginning. But remember that rather than a certain number, it's more about quick light steps. Like running on hot lava. The less time your foot is on the ground the better. The cadence is a function of that. As a 6 foot runner, my cadence is about 150-155 at a 10:50 min/mile for comparison.

not gonna lie...those T intervals sucked and I was not sorry to be done with them. Lots of mind games to get through all 15 minutes, and make it to the half way point of the 2nd one so I could convince myself that now I HAD to do the rest of them.

Was that more because it was "hard and on the treadmill", or was it just "hard" in general? To be fair, your description of them sounds a lot like T pace to me. It's a comfortably hard pace. And not necessarily something fun to run at. Especially when you get in the 15-20 min rep range. Just remind yourself you did it, and the workout will be fruitful. A 3x15 min T + R finish is a very hard workout. So take pride in that.

Wish us luck because it’s supposed to be in the 80s all week, so it’s gonna be a warm start and a late finish. I’m a bit anxious about the elevation gain, and we are both anxious about finishing the race.

Just remember that even a +5 min pace from 5k pace can still be fruitful. So consider above and beyond your consideration of doing run/walk intervals this weekend to starting as slow as a 15:30 min/mile average. Make it a progression run potentially. It's suppose to be 9+1. So how about:

15:30, 15:15, 15:00, 14:45, 14:30, 14:15, 14:00, 13:45, 13:30, 11:55 (M Tempo).

If it's around a T+D of 150 or so, then everything from 14:00 pace and slower would be slower than Galloway+2min. So only the last three miles would be above and beyond a traditional Galloway LR in those conditions. And if you come to the 8th mile and want to hold 14:00, then do that. See if you can increase the pace for the last one. I've felt spent going into that fast finish and sometimes I can pull it out and sometimes I can't. But more often we're capable of more than we think. All of this pacing advice does not take into account the elevation profile changes.

I finally found a runner with Strava Premium who ran the Sleeping Bear Marathon in 2018:
https://www.strava.com/activities/1888115177/overview


So you can at least get a rough idea as to the effect of that steep uphill at Mile 3/4 and 21/22. Looks to me to be at least a 30 sec/mile hit for someone at his pace. So I would anticipate that the difference might be even more extreme for you. I don't know how much pace influences the GAP calculation. I would venture to guess it is a % rather than a set + seconds value. But suffice to say if you train on that portion of the trail, then plan on being anywhere from 30-60 sec slower at the same effort level.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Oh! And I caved to targeted advertising and bought a noxgear lightup vest(?) thingy this morning. I’m planning on attempting to get up early once school starts and get my hour-or-less runs done before DH has to leave, and that means it’ll be dark outside. People drive way fast on the roads I run on. Don’t wanna become a statistic....

 

[Herding_Cats]

It'll definitely feel that way in the beginning. But remember that rather than a certain number, it's more about quick light steps. Like running on hot lava. The less time your foot is on the ground the better. The cadence is a function of that. As a 6 foot runner, my cadence is about 150-155 at a 10:50 min/mile for comparison.



Was that more because it was "hard and on the treadmill", or was it just "hard" in general? To be fair, your description of them sounds a lot like T pace to me. It's a comfortably hard pace. And not necessarily something fun to run at. Especially when you get in the 15-20 min rep range. Just remind yourself you did it, and the workout will be fruitful. A 3x15 min T + R finish is a very hard workout. So take pride in that.

I considered it mental training on top of the run itself. It was hard in that 15min lasted forever and my legs felt heavy, but not hard as in gasping-for-breath.

So how about:

15:30, 15:15, 15:00, 14:45, 14:30, 14:15, 14:00, 13:45, 13:30, 11:55 (M Tempo).

If it's around a T+D of 150 or so, then everything from 14:00 pace and slower would be slower than Galloway+2min. So only the last three miles would be above and beyond a traditional Galloway LR in those conditions. And if you come to the 8th mile and want to hold 14:00, then do that. See if you can increase the pace for the last one. I've felt spent going into that fast finish and sometimes I can pull it out and sometimes I can't. But more often we're capable of more than we think. All of this pacing advice does not take into account the elevation profile changes.

That sounds like a good idea if it is indeed hot out. I’m hoping that Lake Michigan moderates the temperature some, but I’m not sure it’ll do much at this late point in the summer

I finally found a runner with Strava Premium who ran the Sleeping Bear Marathon in 2018:
https://www.strava.com/activities/1888115177/overview
View attachment 597625

So you can at least get a rough idea as to the effect of that steep uphill at Mile 3/4 and 21/22. Looks to me to be at least a 30 sec/mile hit for someone at his pace. So I would anticipate that the difference might be even more extreme for you

You really went on a treasure hunt for that! Thank you!

those hills are no joke. I’m already considering just walking up them, or walking the 2nd half of the bigger hills since I know I can walk uphill at about a 16min/mi and not be dying at the top. We will see what it looks like in person in a few days.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Re-laced my 1080s today (for a wider toe box) to give them one more try. It seemed to work for the 4 miles of EA that I ran. I also ran on the wrong side of the road most of the time to see if getting my irritated ankle on the higher side of the road slope helps things at all. Pretty uneventful run. Pace was a little closer to EB than EA, but my heart rate stayed pretty low throughout. Tomorrow is a very welcome rest day, although all of the kids go to the dentist, so I’m not sure how “restful” it’ll be.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Hey coach @DopeyBadger will it work if I push back today’s 6miEB and tomorrow’s long run by a day? I have Saturday and Sunday as rest days, so it’ll just be cutting it down to one rest day instead of 2. My lower back/hips are really unhappy suddenly this morning and I’m headed to the chiropractor in about an hour so that hopefully I can move tomorrow.