Ever take your child OUT of a Gifted/Talented Program?

[princesspumpkin]

This is DD-9's second year in the G/T program. Before she started it, I thought that it would be a class that had more advanced math/language/reading work going on. Once she was in it, I realized that it really was more of an enrichment class. There were a lot of critical thinking activities and special projects. This year, the class, which is twice a week, replaces her math class (4th grade). Although she does well in math, I don't feel that this G/T class is worth missing two days of math for. When she starts middle school, I suppose she may be able to take the "honors" classes (if she was eligible). But in elementary school, this G/T is what they do. I don't feel that this will hinder her education (by pulling her out), but I'm also wondering how her teacher would feel about this. Has anyone ever done this before? P.S. - DD couldn't care less. Although she does what she needs to do, she didn't have any desire to join this class in the first place.

 

[buddy&wooz]

Our G/T program sounds similar to yours, and I really think it's a cop-out by the district. But it is what it is, and it's not going to change (been in this district for 9 years with 2 kids in the program, and the G/T program is pretty much ignored by the school board.) Here it is the same all the way through middle school, a pullout where they miss regular classes twice a week.

I wouldn't hesitate to take my child out if I wasn't seeing any benefit, or if it was causing a problem with regular classes. Right now my 7th grader is still in the program, but he's getting all A's in his classes and enjoys the G/T teacher (she's really making the best of a bad situation- the program is lightyears better than it was when my oldest went through it). But we'll see how long it lasts- from a group of 17 kids in 4th grade there are now 2- yes 2- students in 7th grade G/T, my son and one other. It's a smallish school- but his class is 120 students. All the other kids have been pulled out or dropped out. Personally I'd rather see more challenging classes instead of pull-out programs for these kids.

 

[siouxi31]

My daughter is in a similar program. They are calling it humanities. While she's already in high math (the only escalated class they offer), I thought the gifted program would be more than critical thinking activities. She gets mad when she's pulled out of other classes to attend the gifted sessions because she feels she misses out on the opportunity to finish her homework for the class she misses during that class time. For example, if she misses math for humanities, she returns to class and is given her homework for the night. If she attended the math class, she'd have some time during class to do the homework.
Because of this, I thought of pulling her out but decided not to for the following reasons:
1) she likes the idea of being part of the humanities program
2) I think she really does need something more than the regular routine of classes since they aren't as challenging for her.
3) It's a great opportunity to be a part of something non-conventional since she has opinions and thoughts on every issue (a trait she inherited from her opinionated father.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[janette]

I'd find out how the work the classes in Middle & High school before I did that. I know in our district on the GT kids are eligible for "Honors" Language Arts / Reading in middle school. If you pull your child out you may not have an automatic pass back in. The pull-outs usually stop after elementary.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Well I have a dd that is a Freshman and a 9yodd getting tested for G/T.
My older dd will never graduate in the top 10% because she was not in G/F. High Schools have a 5.0 system now.
It really stinks. The only saving grace is SAT's and really how can they get top score when they have not even been taught the material.
But I have chosen a school district where she can take PRE AP/AP classes in other subjects, without having been in G/T.

Younger dd wants to be in GF so she can be straight A and be on top. I do not know if she is going to get in, however. I tell her it is OK if she does not.

I would say to you, of course it is worth it. Elementary will blow by you in the blink of an eye and you can't go back.
If she is truly gifted in Math then I would keep her there, it does pay off in the end.

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

It can be a tough choice. My DD10 LOVES her gifted pull-out, even though between that and band, which is a pull-out in fifth grade for us, she has to make up the work. Plus, she misses one day/week to go to a different school for an all-day gifted class. Again, her biggest issue is time management. She loves it all! OTOH, DS8 is, quite possibly, smarter than his older sister. He HATES the gifted pull-outs for his age! There are three, one after school. I told him he has to choose one to do, I don't care which. I'm not worried about him not being identified as gifted--the gifted teacher was waiting for him at K orientation, they knew he was coming, and there's really no doubt that he qualifies. It's more a matter of, he would never challenge himself if I didn't nudge him a little. Such a difference from DD, who loves a challenge and will always choose the harder path! So, I would say it really depends on the type of child involved, and what staying in vs. pulling out would mean down the line for her.

It can be so hard sometimes--I wish you luck no matter what you decide.

 

[Marseeya]

Not that I ever have to worry about this with my kids, but...

As far as I knew, most gifted classes were for enrichment rather than academics. I think it's a good thing.

 

[DoeWDW]

I went through the G/T program as a student. I hated it. It seemed like a lot of extra work to me, in addition to all the other work I had in regular classes. I felt it was a waste of my time. If I wanted to study other subjects I could do that on my own - I didn't need to miss regular classes and have extra projects and deadlines.

If the kids really are being "enriched" by the experience, that's fine, but if they regard it as more busy-work, then what's the point? It's like being penalized for being intelligent.

Can you tell it's still a hot button issue for me and I'm 41 years old.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Not that I ever have to worry about this with my kids, but...

As far as I knew, most gifted classes were for enrichment rather than academics. I think it's a good thing.

No they have turned into a "ticket" into the upper level classes in middle and high school. If your child is smart and does well it does make a difference. My older dd learned the same darn thing all 3 years in middle school. The system is just not right.

 

[ElizaB39]

My DD11 (6th grade) is in our school's gifted program, 1/2 day pull out per week, but the best part of her intermediate school is that she is in an accelerated classroom. I have had many discussions with teachers and parents about what an accelerated classroom really is! More advanced reading and language arts and faster progression through the 6th grade math curriculum and etc. Their vocabulary words are difficult. We aren't much help with them. Her current book report is on a classic, either Pride and Prejudice or Jane Eyre.

Her pullout program and teacher are great. They are doing Greek Mythology, intro to Spanish and French, Robotics, and others. They are really trying to get the kids to think "out of the box" and not be constrained to conventional thinking.

There are some kids in her class that aren't in the gifted program as they didn't "test" in (IQ score) but are smart kids and belong in an accelerated classroom. For my DD, the gifted program is a godsend, she loves it and doesn't mind the homework that she might have to do as a result of missing class. The gifted program does not assign grades or homework.

 

[ElizaB39]

No they have turned into a "ticket" into the upper level classes in middle and high school. If your child is smart and does well it does make a difference. My older dd learned the same darn thing all 3 years in middle school. The system is just not right.

Yes, this is true for our school as well. DD will always be in the gifted program and in the accelerated classes and etc. She will be with the same group of kids from here on out. This tracking started as soon as we had her tested in 4th grade, but the grouping didn't start until 5th grade (with all accelerated kids being in one classroom). K-4 had all types of kids together in classes.

 

[puffkin]

I was in the gifted program from first grade on. Our program in elementary school was excellent. It was a pull-out session, one day a week. We went to a separate classroom and did critical thinking, special projects, computers, etc (this was in the late 80's). We also went on a lot of field trips. It is honestly one of the highlights of my schooling. I was not challenged in the regular classes and often caused trouble because I was bored. This was a perfect arena for me. We were responsible for making up the work that we missed though in our regular classes, but I didn't mind. I was usually so far ahead in those classes anyway, that I didn't have much to make up.

Once I hit middle/high school the gifted program didn't mean anything. It was just a label that the school applied to you in order to get more funding from the state. There was no set program. It was a self study type thing. You found something you were interested in, then were assigned a teacher to do a self study. Of course, this was all on your own time. My parents actually pulled me from the program because they didn't think it was right that the school was getting funding to "enrich" my education, but they weren't using the money to do that.

Gifted programs should be about more than academics. They shouldn't be used as a forum for teaching advanced maths or sciences or things like that. They should be used to allow the child to step outside the realm of academia and really stretch their minds and imaginations. That is why a gifted person is not just based on IQ, but on other factors such as creativity and thinking "outside of the box". The programs should be designed to enrich all three areas, not just academics.

 

[phlufster]

I was in G/T all through middle school and it was a seperate program that didn't pull me out of other classes. WHen I moved to a new school district in 7th grade I was put into their G/T program which was completely different than what I was used to.

In 7th grade I was pulled out of geography to be in G/T and in 8th grade I was pulled out of history. I ended up having my parents pull me out of G/T in the middle of 8th grade because I really felt that I wasn't learning anything from it.

In high school I was put into their FPS (future problem solving) program which was teams of 5 and we were able to meet on our own time and the school counselors made sure that we had study halls to together so that we didn't have to miss our regular classes. Our team went on to do really well and we were even able to compete on a national level.

The problem that I had with being pulled out of regular classes to take G/T is that I never learned things that I should know. I am a complete idiot when it comes to geography and my history knowledge is embarassing. I couldn't tell you who won a single war or name more than 10 presidents. Once when I was asked where Boston was, I replied, "I think it is the capitol of London." This is a well known story among my friends and I am still to this day teased about my lack of history and geography knowledge.

Now that I am 28 and in the real world, I am finding that I wished I knew more about those subjects that I was pulled out of. Even though G/T was fun at the time, I am not sure that it was worth what I missed out on. Maybe your child will have the opportunity to be involved in something in high school that will end up being more educating for them and also work better with their schedule.

 

[PlutoPony]

As far as I knew, most gifted classes were for enrichment rather than academics. I think it's a good thing.

Ours is also more enrichment than academics. The reasoning (as I understand it) is that gifted students are "different" in the way they think and view things. In addition to grasping basic concepts quickly, they take these concepts and run with them into all sorts of directions.... so a program for kids like this focuses on critical thinking and things like that to make the most of how these kids learn. Siimply giving gifted students accelerated instruction doesn't really address their NEEDS - other than keeping them from being bored in class (which is a problem for many gifted AND not as gifted students ). I will say that after a couple of years in a g/t program (1 day/week pullout) we can definitely see DS 10 thinking "outside the box" a lot - it's noticeable and I think it will absolutely benefit him in life, probably more than accelerated classes since this is about a thought PROCESS, not just knowledge. Just MHO....

 

[grinningghost]

Yes. I took DD out of GT when she was entering middle school. It really wasn't much more than "fluff" which cut into her more important class time. I didn't see how learning in depth about bengal tigers was more important than being in math class where she NEEDED the instruction.

Around here, the GT program is a joke.

 

[puffkin]

Ours is also more enrichment than academics. The reasoning (as I understand it) is that gifted students are "different" in the way they think and view things. In addition to grasping basic concepts quickly, they take these concepts and run with them into all sorts of directions.... so a program for kids like this focuses on critical thinking and things like that to make the most of how these kids learn. Siimply giving gifted students accelerated instruction doesn't really address their NEEDS - other than keeping them from being bored in class (which is a problem for many gifted AND not as gifted students ). I will say that after a couple of years in a g/t program (1 day/week pullout) we can definitely see DS 10 thinking "outside the box" a lot - it's noticeable and I think it will absolutely benefit him in life, probably more than accelerated classes since this is about a thought PROCESS, not just knowledge. Just MHO....

I 100% agree with you, this is what a gifted program is SUPPOSED to be.

 

[princesspumpkin]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I called the middle school that she would be going to, to express my concerns and ask about the G/T program. The wonderful woman that i spoke with (a secretary) said that she too had wrestled with this decision. She did assure me that once the 5th graders get to middle school, they are all re-tested for the G/T program and that if I pulled DD from is now, it would not hinder her chances (on paper) from getting into the program. Also, the G/T program in the middle school is different in that although it is still a pull-out class, it pulls out of a class that is studying the same thing (she said it would be social studies and that the G/T class would do more in depth social studies stuff as well as other things). So DD wouldn't be missing different things to be a part of this class. Alas, I believe that I have made my decision.

 

[barkley]

i am not a fan of gat, the school district i grew up in and later taught in used it primarily as a means to justify limiting cultural/educational field trips to a very small number of students who "would benefit more than the "adverage" student". i saw many stellar students not allowed these opportunities because of the "leadership" criteria not " readily apparant" as far as their reccommending teacher was concerned (i don't know if it's still the same criteria, but the quidelines used to require both grades and a potential for "future leadership in their chosen career path").

that said, i have had students and friends who participate who loved it, and those that detisted it and found it limiting and elitist.

if i had a child who was enrolled in the program (our private school does not offer so it is a non issue for me) and wanted to drop out i would seriously consider allowing them to do so. i had a friend in high school (not in my school district) who had been in the program since elementary and had begged his parents for years to withdraw him (he was very bright and sought out learning opportunities, artistic venues...on his own). in his sophmore year he researched (on his own) the criteria for placement and removal from the program, and learned that the only way he could be removed was either with his parent's approval or by receiving a failing grade in all of his standard coursework. his parents, not willing to support his desire to not participate, were stunned and very saddened to learn that their straight A+ son purposly "blew off" an entire semester in order to flunk out of his classes. he saw it as the only means to get out of a program that he had never felt comfortable in nor gained any enrichment from.

our public schools do not use gat as criteria for A.P. or honours classes (if you meet the educational criteria for them you can participate), so i can't see any real benefit to participating in the program if one is not enjoying doing so.

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

I have to agree about the gifted programs being more about enrichment and "outside the box" thinking. In our school, they involve in depth study of historical issues (DD looked at women's suffrage last year, don't know what's up for this year), philosophical discussions (for example, they had to try being a person with a disability for a day), and problem solving. For her weekly class, they discuss forensics, the physics of Star Trek, are reading "The Time Machine", making a video with an ambiguous ending, studying the Victorian era, and many other different things. And it only started 4 weeks ago! She doesn't need, say, harder spelling words--she can do that on her own, and/or will get it through the regular school system. What she needs is to understand how to consider different points of view, look at problems from various angles, consider solutions that might seem "impossible". Most importatn, she needs to know that there's nothing wrong with being smart, and the enrichment program allows her a place to fit in.

 

[monarchsfan16]

Not a parent, but a dropout of a g/t program.
The program at my elementary school sounds a lot like your daughter's. It was more of an enrichment program with critical thinking junk, and useless projects, that took up the majority of my time and began to get in the way of my homework. Then there was that detail of missing class, which added to my work load. I was put in g/t in 3rd grade. I just plain stopped going in 5th grade. For awhile my regular teacher didn't really notice; when she did I just told her I had had enough She knew me well enough to know that if I was dropping it I had thought it out, so she didn't argue with me. The G/T teacher was the teacher of the enrichment class that was mandatory for everyone. I was still getting "enriched", just without killing myself. The G/T teacher hated me anyway, so she didn't really care. The G/T program at my elementary had no influence on what classes I was placed in in middle school and high school. In fact the G/T class was made up of kids who were more often than not already in upper level classes (we were split in first grade, and it only continued from there).
I would check to see if it will influence her classes as she gets older, but it truly sounds like she can't get much out of it, and it's miserable to miss class. Besides, at that age who likes being pulled out of class? Just one more difference.