Even Disney Is Worried About the High Cost of a Disney Vacation

except that Fastpass wasn't just about helping people to get on more rides. It was all about customer service and something intangible yet necessary called Goodwill. With the free fastpass, guests felt like they had an option to standing in line for long times, had less to complain about, and were generally happy about spending even more money on sweatshirts and more future trips. I'm sure it's not just the fact that we no longer have resort delivery that has cut merchandise sales, but when we were there 2 weeks ago we bought nothing in the parks other than food, and most of the stores were basically empty. I think their merchandising sucks compared to 10 years so that's a factor, but they did have some very nice shirts and sweaters...that nobody was buying...

we've also gone from 2 weeks trips onsite with 7 park days every year to 1 week with 3 park days every couple of years. And many people I spoke with during our trip are doing the same. The parks feel more crowded but that's because there is much less to do that doesn't require a one hour wait or a lightning lane. And doing nothing for 55 minutes to do a ride for 5 gets boring real fast.

the next trip we'll be staying offsite, since there are so few amenities now for resort guests that I'm just comparing prices now. That's another thing that created Goodwill, and made us happy to wear our Disney shirts year round and help our friends to plan their trips.
Fastpass was about letting guests do something like shopping or eating while "waiting in line" for a ride. It gave people more time to spend money. The real issue was this increase in spending is intangible. That is there is no hard numbers bean counters can plug into their spreadsheets. Sure there is an increase in spending, but it is harder to quantify. A paid lightning lane solves this issue. There is a real hard number, the price of the pass, that can be tallied. I have no idea if per guest spending is down, if you remove the cost of the pass. I suspect that it is.
 
FYI, as per Disney’s SEC filings on how they track attendance:

Attendance is used to analyze volume trends at our theme parks and is based on the number of unique daily entries, i.e. a person visiting multiple theme parks in a single day is counted only once. Our attendance count includes complimentary entries but excludes entries by children under the age of three.

Didn’t use to be this way, but regardless, attendance is increasing.
 
I feel like since Covid people have way more FOMO then every before.

Attendance has increased in all but a few recessionary periods. Travel has exploded in the past decade and costs are up everywhere. I’d handily bet the Orlando area has seen some of the more modest price hikes on lodging, etc. over that decade. This is largely because WDW and Universal have hiked their rates up, cooling demand.
 

Oh yeah, Bob and I know each other on a personal level. We go way back.

Fact - hand trained successor failed
Fact - came back for multi millions
Fact - has stated only going to be back a short time
I don't follow Disney leadership, but he sounds like a responsible person for coming back when his successor failed. Why would anyone give up retirement to return to a stressful job, especially when they're already a multimillionaire many times over?
 
Oh yeah, Bob and I know each other on a personal level. We go way back.

Fact - hand trained successor failed
Fact - came back for multi millions
Fact - has stated only going to be back a short
Fact - He wasn’t ready to transition the role.
Fact - Chapek forced the board’s hand into giving him the role, and at that point in time, by otherwise threatening to leave.
Fact - He didn’t think Chapek was a good fit for the role but supported him to show unity with the Company and board.
Fact - Chapek made several huge blunders, some of which went against the advise of Iger
Fact - the board asked for Iger to return
Fact - Iger’s salary is reasonable and customary compared to his peers
 
People who complain about the condition of the parks today clearly weren’t around in the 90s.
This is so true. I well remember standing in MK lines and looking at peeling paint and wear and tear everywhere. I remember thinking, as a shareholder, this is not a good look for customers, Eisner must go! lol

Iger didn’t want to leave and the other Bob wasn’t his hand picked replacement.

Fact - He didn’t think Chapek was a good fit for the role but supported him to show unity with the Company and board.
I think you are misremembering the true history - Iger handpicked Chapek and rushed the whole process, Bob C. only had one short interview with one board member and the board simply rubber-stamped Iger's selection for the next CEO. To quote the article from the thread below, "The sudden move shocked and baffled Hollywood. Paul McCartney, a close friend of Mr. Iger’s, called him to ask if he was sick."

See this thread for a link to an in-depth article on how a CEO should NOT to do succession planning:

 
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For those of you not keeping up with the news, Canadian travel to the US is plummeting as a result of politics and a weak CAD. Florida is being hit the hardest. Right now, summer hotel rates in Orlando are the lowest we’ve seen since COVID. Looking at Priceline, which often has discounted Disney hotel rates (although high booking fees$, I’ve seen the Contemporary and Polynesian for below $400/night for much of the summer. Grand Floridian is at $425. Coronado Springs and AKL at $189. I’ve seen All Star Sports for $109. Rates and availability seem to come and go, but like I said earlier, Disney is very smart at discounting.

I’m sure we’ll see a summer ticket offer soon.
 
For those of you not keeping up with the news, Canadian travel to the US is plummeting as a result of politics and a weak CAD. Florida is being hit the hardest. Right now, summer hotel rates in Orlando are the lowest we’ve seen since COVID. Looking at Priceline, which often has discounted Disney hotel rates (although high booking fees$, I’ve seen the Contemporary and Polynesian for below $400/night for much of the summer. Grand Floridian is at $425. Coronado Springs and AKL at $189. I’ve seen All Star Sports for $109. Rates and availability seem to come and go, but like I said earlier, Disney is very smart at discounting.

I’m sure we’ll see a summer ticket offer soon.
I wonder if also many are opting to stay closer to home. Orlando may be the lowest you've seen since COVID, other parks that I plan on visiting this summer, their rates are the highest I've seen in years.

Looking just at Cedar Point and Dollywood, both of their hotels have gone up easily $200-$300 a night compared to last season
 
I wonder if also many are opting to stay closer to home. Orlando may be the lowest you've seen since COVID, other parks that I plan on visiting this summer, their rates are the highest I've seen in years.

Looking just at Cedar Point and Dollywood, both of their hotels have gone up easily $200-$300 a night compared to last season

It’s impacting the markets that are strong overnight Canadian tourism. Rates are down in places like Orlando and Las Vegas, not so much in places like Anaheim (which saw relatively few Canadian tourists). Cesar Point and Dollywood probably see few Canadian tourists.
 
It’s impacting the markets that are strong overnight Canadian tourism. Rates are down in places like Orlando and Las Vegas, not so much in places like Anaheim (which saw relatively few Canadian tourists). Cesar Point and Dollywood probably see few Canadian tourists.
First Canadians due make up a decent amount of guests to Cedar Point due to the proximity to the border.

My point wasn't just about Canadian travel but travel in general. While Orlando and Vegas rates are down, Dollywood and Cedar Point has seen the opposite at their resorts.

What I'm gathering is Americans are opting for those places over Orlando and Vegas
 
IMO, 2008-2010 were the best Disney years--you had magical moments, it was fairly affordable, EMH, airline checkin and Magical Express. And if you were lucky, you'd get a sweet PIN code too.
I had a blast during these years.

Although, my favorite trip was in the late 90's. I had a great suite with my soon to be wife at SSR for less than $400 for 3 nights (just "popped up" when on the phone with WDW reservations), River Country and Pleasure Island (Kungaloosh!) were still a real thing, and you could still drive up to park at the Poly and walk around back to enjoy a Maitai at the pool bar - even if you stayed offsite. The service was really, really great, and it was still very affordable, even for my (at the time) blue collar pay rate in my mid to upper 20s.
 
I had a blast during these years.

Although, my favorite trip was in the late 90's. I had a great suite with my soon to be wife at SSR for less than $400 for 3 nights (just "popped up" when on the phone with WDW reservations), River Country and Pleasure Island (Kungaloosh!) were still a real thing, and you could still drive up to park at the Poly and walk around back to enjoy a Maitai at the pool bar - even if you stayed offsite. The service was really, really great, and it was still very affordable, even for my (at the time) blue collar pay rate in my mid to upper 20s.

And yet if you dig into the forum’s archives, during that time period, people were complaining about the high costs. Again, Disney didn’t change - we did.

BTW, $30K in the late 1990s is equivalent to almost $60K today, using government inflation calculators. Both figures were toward the median then and now for single wage earners.

Also, it’s rather silly (the person you quoted) to “feel the magic” during the Great Recession when Disney (and the travel industry in general) retorted to heavy discounting. You only “felt the magic” because much of the country was feeling pain and didn’t have the resources to travel.
 
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And yet if you dig into the forum’s archives, during that time period, people were complaining about the high costs. Again, Disney didn’t change - we did.

BTW, $30K in the late 1990s is equivalent to almost $60K today, using government inflation calculators. Both figures were toward the median then and now for single wage earners.
Yes people have always complained about costs but prior recently the value was much better for that money.

Prior to COVID, even with how much it cost, you got Magical Express, free FP, Extra Magic hours and souvenir delivery. Now with your stay, you get access to buy LLMP before off site guests.
 
Yes people have always complained about costs but prior recently the value was much better for that money.

Prior to COVID, even with how much it cost, you got Magical Express, free FP, Extra Magic hours and souvenir delivery. Now with your stay, you get access to buy LLMP before off site guests.

Those were perks intended to get people into Disney rooms. In the 2000s, Disney often had to discount to get people into their rooms. For example, the All Star Resorts appeared regularly on Priceline for $25/night. Today, it’s common for the AS to sell out months in advance - even at $250/night. Not a surprise nor is it unreasonable for Disney to pull back perks.

Like I said earlier, the hotels cost so much because a core group of fanatics want them so badly. You can stay at the Hilton Buena Vista Palace or Bonnet Creek this summer for about the same price as the AS (including fees). Both are beautiful properties on the edge of the bubble, with great amenities including awesome pools and frequent transportation. There are certainly options out there besides Disney.
 
Those were perks intended to get people into Disney rooms. In the 2000s, Disney often had to discount to get people into their rooms. For example, the All Star Resorts appeared regularly on Priceline for $25/night. Today, it’s common for the AS to sell out months in advance - even at $250/night. Not a surprise nor is it unreasonable for Disney to pull back perks.

Like I said earlier, the hotels cost so much because a core group of fanatics want them so badly. You can stay at the Hilton Buena Vista Palace or Bonnet Creek this summer for about the same price as the AS (including fees). Both are beautiful properties on the edge of the bubble, with great amenities including awesome pools and frequent transportation. There are certainly options out there besides Disney.
Included FP was not part of getting someone to stay onsite; it was included with everyone's ticket. It did rely on a decent amount of people to not know it was included but that was part of Disney's ticket inclusions.

While the PP did mention souvenir delivery meaning package delivery to the resort something that did pertain to all guests was delivery to a specific pick up location in each park (subject to purchasing before X time).

I'm not debating FP nor package pickup just pointing out that not everything the PP mentioned was intended to lure guests to stay onsite. Both of those items mentioned above are gone for everyone, one of which is now paid the other of which seemingly is not coming back.
 
And yet if you dig into the forum’s archives, during that time period, people were complaining about the high costs. Again, Disney didn’t change - we did.

Ahh, yes, River Country... Great story from that trip - Check-out day. We had used our park tickets, but still had WP access, so we ventured to FW, took the bus over to River Country and had a great few hours being 29yo kids.

Packed up our stuff, and hopped the bus back to parking, and realized we didn't have the rental car key. Panic! Ran back to the bus, back to RC, searched the sandy area where we had our stuff... Nothing...

Dejected, we return to parking, and at this point just need help. Walked over to the old kennel facility there and asked to use a phone to call the rental car agency. The sweet CM working there, says, "Oh shoot, we have a key service - I'll call them. Where is your car?"

She then directed us to call the rental agency to get "the key code" for the car. This was much easier than I anticipated, and we scribbled it down.

We walked back to our car - and waited 3-5 minutes, before we see a Disney van creeping around the lot like they were looking for someone. We flag him down, he jumps out and slides open the side door of the van. We see racks and racks of key blanks jingling like "tinker" bells. The locksmith collects our scrap of paper, selects a blank from one of the loaded wires, and cuts us a key right there in the parking lot. We are ecstatic!

We then ask him what we owe him, and he says, "Not a thing, sir. Have a magical day".

I'm not sure you can get a new key fob these days for less than 6 or 700 bucks! We celebrated with the drive to the Poly pool bar for that Maitai I mentioned earlier, ate dinner at Ohana as a walk in, and watched fireworks from the beach.

Ahh, memories of kinda better times...
 
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Included FP was not part of getting someone to stay onsite; it was included with everyone's ticket. It did rely on a decent amount of people to not know it was included but that was part of Disney's ticket inclusions.

While the PP did mention souvenir delivery meaning package delivery to the resort something that did pertain to all guests was delivery to a specific pick up location in each park (subject to purchasing before X time).

I'm not debating FP nor package pickup just pointing out that not everything the PP mentioned was intended to lure guests to stay onsite. Both of those items mentioned above are gone for everyone, one of which is now paid the other of which seemingly is not coming back.

Good catch. I know FP wasn’t an exclusive perk, it didn’t think it was worth spending the time excluding it. Just as EE wasn’t always a perk, either - it was Surprise /Magic Morning, was only available a few days per week, was limited to one park on the days it was available, and was limited to a handful of attractions.
 




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