Euthanasia/Assisted Suicide

[JoiseyMom]

Wow...some of the replies here just blow my freaking mind. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Ready for a long one??

Sandy...our beloved Golden was diagnosed with cancer of the spleen 2 years ago. He had been sick on and off..not eating..then eating...and we finally took him to the vet. He was only 6 so we were not to concerned. Well they wanted to do an xray, then an ultrasound, and if need be surgery. They said if they found cancer they would put him down immediately. Well we said yes. They opened him up, and found out that he a tumor, and if I hadn't gotten him to the vet then, he would have bled to death . Well they had to send the tissue out to see if he had cancer. If he did have cancer there was no chance for him to live. It turned out he did have cancer. Now we just had to decide when to put him down. It wasn't an option for us. If our beloved Sandy was in too much pain, we were NOT going to let him SUFFER!! After some research we were told that steroids would stop the pain, help him feel better and slow the cancer. This gave us some more time with him, and enough time for our DS to get some leave from the AF and fly home to say good bye to his puppy. It was really hard to make that call to the vet. I made one, and then he kinda turned around and was doing better and I cancelled. The next time I made the call we did not cancel. He wasn't eating. He wasn't chasing his Oz..our other dog..or our cats. He was just so sad and tired. We LOVED him too much to have him suffer from this horrible disease. There was no healing from this..it was a death sentence. A natural death from pain is horrible and just too cruel. We took him in, and it was very easy for him. We held him, in our arms, we were on the floor, me and DH, and the vet gave him the shot..and that was it. No whine..no more pain.

Now I also had an even harder decision to make earlier this year. My 56 year old brother was in the hospital for about a month. He had heart issues, had a pace maker, and kept going into heart failure. They had him tubed forever. At first we thought he would get out..they even got the tube out and he was eating. I was very happy! But before this I had a discussion with my other brother about talking to him about a DNR. He had no quality of life. If he was going to have to live on tubes the rest of his life, I felt he should be allowed to go. My brother at first was like..he is only 56. I was like..yes..only 56..and living like this in a bed on tubes for how many more years?? Not be able to eat his favorite foods or go to a ball game..not to be able to pick up and go outside..go to a ball game?? I said to him..you put down Ceasar (his german shepard), do you love our brother any less?? We discussed it, and when the tubes came out we asked him what HE wanted..and he said yes..he wants a DNR he did not want to live like he was living.

Now my SIL was very against this. I was ready to smack the crap out of her at one point. Now..my brother took a turn for the worse..they had to give him a trach tube..he couldn't breathe on his own..too much strain on his heart. If he made it out of the hospital he would be tubed and stuck on oxygen for the rest of his "natural" days. He was still coherent..so we asked him again, and said he wanted it done. They disconnected his pace maker so when (not if) he went into congenitive heart failure again it would not restart his heart. He was on an IV with pain meds to make him comfortable. We (me and DH) went there on Mother's Day to talk to hospice about the care they would provide for him at the end. At this point my sil was still asking my brother if he "really" wanted to go!! If her daughters weren't there I would have smacked her silly!! My brother (her DH) came in and told her to stop it or he would throw her out. This was NONE of her business!! We all went home..and at 10:00 I got a call saying that they hospice worker thought he was taking a turn for the worst. I went back to the hospital with intentions of being there for the duration. My brother was there and we just talked and kidded. An old family friend stopped by too. It was funny..there was some movie on..and I could tell he didn't want to watch it. So I flipped channels until we came to a ballgame. That he wanted to watch... no big surpise there. He seemed to be fine..he was breathing ok. We asked if he wanted some pain meds to help him sleep and he shook his head yes. We got the staff (they were great btw) to give him a shot..and stayed until he fell asleep. We both drove home. The first thing in the morning I called work to tell them I wouldn't be in, that I would be spending the day at the hospital. Not even 10 minutes later we got the phone call that he was gone. I have no qualms or regrets about taking away his pace maker or making him comfortable. He made the decision. A person should have the right to say how they want to die. A 56 year old man should not have to spend years hooked up to tubes in a bed just because others have no idea what the quality of life is.

And if G-d felt that it wasn't his time to go..then his heart wouldn't have stopped..and he would have been able to live without all the tubes.

I also had an uncle that died a slow agonizing death from ALS. I can't even imagine. For me personally...if I was diagnosed with a death sentence, I would do something to give myself a painless peaceful end of my choosing..not some horrible diseases choosing.

 

[C.Ann]

You know they kinda (sorta) have something like this, sorta.

When my mom was in ICU - they had to 'bring her back' 3 times. My mom had a DNR order, and I figured after 3 times (and having been without oxygen for up to 20 minutes) even if she did come back, would she be her?

So, the DNR wouldnt come into place though, unless *I* (next of kin) agreed to it. And I did... after they said they wouldnt be just doing the boomp boomp boomp on her chest to get her heart restarted, but those electric pad thingee's.

I think it's extremely unfair to not let someone choose their own destiny. When the whole Terri Schiavo thing was going on, my mom turned to me, looked me dead in the face and said "I swear to God, Cat - if I ever end up like that, you take me in a field and you shoot me"

She did not want to live as half the person she was. She didnt wanna be trapped. She didnt wanna be 'just alive' and not living.

It would have been selfish for me to continue to let them pound on her chest so *I* wouldnt have to go through grief. She was already gone. She was unconscious and she was trapped, unable to move, unable to speak, unable to -live-. I would talk to her, and she would cry, I mean tears running down her face. The nurse said it wasnt 'real' and just a reflex like reaction. It was real, I felt it. So, IMO - she was trapped, in this non-moving, non-communicating, non-working 'shell' of a body.

She was 55 - I could have kept her on life support for who knows how long - but that would have been for ME, not for HER.

And Lord knows, I couldnt take her out in a field and shoot her.

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First of all.... I'm so sorry you had to go through that..

I recently had "the talk" with my family about being "trapped" like your mom was and two weeks ago I filled out the necessary papers and had them witnessed.. Three things brought this about - (1) My dear, dear friend's DD's DH (35) is currently in a vegatative state and considered brain dead after having had a brain anuerism in June and mutiple strokes and such in the weeks and months following.. He is on a vent - had no papers signed - and his wife will eventually have to make a "decision".. She knows what he would want (they had discussed it back during the whole Terri Schiavo thing), but his parents are vehemently opposed.. (2) My dear, dear friend just passed away on Nov. 24th after battling ovarian cancer for many, many years.. (This is the "mom" to the poor girl with her DH in a vegatative state..) Fortunately she did not suffer - just never woke up from her afternoon nap - but it made me think a little harder about my own mortality.. (3) I was scheduled for an endoscopy on Dec. 2nd - for which I was going to be put to under - and because I all ready have respiratory problems - and all procedures carry a certain amount of risk - I wanted this made clear before I went ahead with it..

So for all of you out there who are "young" - and think you have plenty of time to get these directives in place - please, please do not put your spouse (or any other loved one) in the situation that my late friend's DD is currently in.. There was NO reason to think this would happen to her 35 yr. old DH, but here she is - with 2 little girls - gearing up for what will likely become a battle between her and his parents.. If you know what you want, please put it in writing ASAP!!!!

 

[Sparx]

in my opinion, i am in no position to tell anyone how to live (or not live) their life. that is their decision. especially if they are in pain. dying quickly and comfortably is a right that should not be infringed.

 

[JoiseyMom]

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If you know what you want, please put it in writing ASAP!!!!

Dh & I have living wills. So does his parents.

 

[jam217]

I am absolutely in favor of it. My mother just died early Tuesday morning of pancreatic cancer. We had her at home and were able to care for her. The last few days were horrible for not only her but myself, my brother and my father. She said several times that she wanted to die and wanted it all to end.

 

[Amy&Dan]

I am absolutely in favor of it. My mother just died early Tuesday morning of pancreatic cancer. We had her at home and were able to care for her. The last few days were horrible for not only her but myself, my brother and my father. She said several times that she wanted to die and wanted it all to end.

I am so sorry you lost your mom. I know where you are at, I lost mine to cancer (she also died at home) 11 months ago tomorrow.

Take care of yourself and you are in my prayers.

 

[TeresaNJ]

Dh & I have living wills. So does his parents.

I just want to add that no matter what your living will states, if the person making your medical decisions decides to rescind your DNR, the hospital will not go against that person. My best advice is to talk to the people who may be making these decisions for you if you are incapacitated, and make sure they are aware of your wishes, and tell them you will come back to haunt them if they go against your wishes. I have seen it happen time and time again over the years working in a hospital.

 

[Amy&Dan]

I just want to add that no matter what your living will states, if the person making your medical decisions decides to rescind your DNR, the hospital will not go against that person. My best advice is to talk to the people who may be making these decisions for you if you are incapacitated, and make sure they are aware of your wishes, and tell them you will come back to haunt them if they go against your wishes. I have seen it happen time and time again over the years working in a hospital.

Theresa, you are so right. Its the same with organ donation. You can sign your driver's license but if a family member can't go through with it, they won't procure your organs.

So sign the papers, have the talks and have the talks again.

 

[Disney Doll]

I have no problem with self-determination. I do think we hve to be careful of the slippery slope, but I also think there are ways to guard against that.

 

[ameraumi]

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I think this is an excellent idea!

I've watched many family members die a horrible, agonizing death - but of course the freshest one in my mind is my DH - in 2005.. Six days of begging to die.. Six days of closing his eyes, opening them back up again, looking at me and saying, "Is it over yet? I just want to DIE.. I CAN'T do this anymore.."

He was sick for 10+ years - cancer and a multitude of other serious (and painful) medical issues.. Not once did he ever complain.. Not a single, solitary time.. Why? Because he was an amazingly strong man - a former Marine - and in his own words, "Marines can take anything.."

So what kind of pain do you think he was in - 24 hours a day - for six long days - that caused him to BEG to die??? To ask me over and over and over again if it was "over yet"..

I wouldn't wish that on a dog - a rat - an alligator that just tore off my arm - why should ANY human have to go through that kind of tortue and suffering.. We send people to jail in this country for torturing people, yet we allow it to go on in the medical field every minute of every day..

Let the patient list it in their advanced directive and then you don't have to worry about "Uncle Joe" wanting to bump you off so he can get his inheritance early - or the hospital "needing the bed"..

That brought tears to my eyes! And it hits so close to home with me as my own DH has Pancreatic Cancer. I PRAY every day that I will not have to witness the same thing you did but I know in the back of mind it very well may happen.

Because of that, I would want my DH to be able to choose whether or not he wanted to end the suffering. I have always been a supporter of Euthanasia and even more so now. Even if it could be an option in an Advance Directive, anything to allow the patient some relief from the pain.

 

[disnut1149]

Any nurse who has worked in a nursing home setting in conjunction w hospice- as I have for many years; has helped move along the process of death/dying. I have given extra morphine-knowing that each extra dose decreases the amount of respirations my patient will take per minute. I have given these doses per the order of hospice directives/md order- all within my deeming the doses as needed. Even then I have held many hands of dying patients still in unimaginable pain as they have taken their last breaths; and in those moments thanking God that this person's painful passing is over.

It is so true that we treat our pets with much more humanity/compassion then we can manage for our fellow man- when my time comes I think seriously that if I were ever in that amount of pain I'll just shoot myself.

Hi
My mother-in-law had dementia and was in the process of dying, and according to her will, she didn't want any food or water. It was so terrible. She wasn't coherent. After a week of being in the hospital and still alive, the nurse gave her an overdose of morphine. I didn't know nurses could do that, be we were so thankful, because seeing her linger was horrible. I miss her so much. She was so wonderful and the best mother-in-law you could have.

 

[dcentity2000]

I'm hugely conflicted on the subject. Whilst I am against suicide, I understand Shakespeare's notion of the water coming to the person who then drowns, in contrast to those who approach the water.

Certainly the concept can be applied to mental illness, where the patient commits suicide without knowing what they are doing, but does it extend to a situation where the coming water is in fact pain and suffering?



Rich::

 

[C.Ann]

I am absolutely in favor of it. My mother just died early Tuesday morning of pancreatic cancer. We had her at home and were able to care for her. The last few days were horrible for not only her but myself, my brother and my father. She said several times that she wanted to die and wanted it all to end.

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I'm SO very sorry! This Tuesday morning? How horrible for you and your family.. My heart truly goes out to all of you..

 

[imabrat]

And I hate it when people euthanise animals, too, I think it's horrible. But I guess I have just a bit more faith in the body's healing process than others do, and if there's someone who shows the body's ability, it's hubby, who healed a brain tumor using NO western medicine, and has gone from a blood sugar of 443 one scary night in September, got a lovely diagnosis, and the last two days he's hit the high 80s, without doing anything but change his diet. That and the nastiness I've seen and experienced (might want to mention that my mom died due to a medical error, misdiagnosis, and most importantly MISSED diagnosis) make me absolute that I couldn't end my life, another life, or a pet's life (though I've decided to just not have pets b/c I can't stand the death after 7-15ish years for dogs and cats).

I disagree with the first bolded statement. I feel that if you truly love your pet, you will see the pain they are feeling. You will see that your pet is taken, their soul is gone and the only thing remaining is their body. I did not and would not allow my cat to go through such tremendous pain, I knew what it felt like and I loved him too much to let him feel it.

Secondly, nice to know, but I think it's a load of hooey. You're going to tell me that my cancer could've been treated and cut off naturally? Yeah, I don't think so. Your comment offends me, implying that I put myself through the horror that is chemotherapy and surgery willingly.

 

[ameraumi]

I am absolutely in favor of it. My mother just died early Tuesday morning of pancreatic cancer. We had her at home and were able to care for her. The last few days were horrible for not only her but myself, my brother and my father. She said several times that she wanted to die and wanted it all to end.

I am so sorry!

 

[Jynohn]

My MIL just passed away last week after a 4 month battle with multiple mylenoma. She asked for all feeding tubes to be removed, and left the hospital the day after Thanksgiving in order to spend her last days at home. The doctors gave her about two weeks.

Fortunately she only lasted 6 days. I say fortunately, because those 6 days were living hell for both her and the rest of the family. I will never forget the look of sorrow and helplessness on my husband and FIL's face as they watched MIL writhing in pain and begging for it to be over.

The hospice nurse doubled her morphine dosage, and I firmly believe she did so as an act of mercy, knowing that it would cause her to slip away and end her suffering. My MIL died peacefully in her sleep that night, and I will be forever grateful to her for allowing my husband and FIL to see MIL finally at peace in her last moments, instead of watching her die in agony.

 

[Tricia1972]

I disagree with the first bolded statement. I feel that if you truly love your pet, you will see the pain they are feeling. You will see that your pet is taken, their soul is gone and the only thing remaining is their body. I did not and would not allow my cat to go through such tremendous pain, I knew what it felt like and I loved him too much to let him feel it.

Secondly, nice to know, but I think it's a load of hooey. You're going to tell me that my cancer could've been treated and cut off naturally? Yeah, I don't think so. Your comment offends me, implying that I put myself through the horror that is chemotherapy and surgery willingly.

I totally support you! My sister has brain cancer and I have studied it extensively since she was diagnosed this past May. Sorry - brain tumors cannot be cured by some teas. Anyone claiming that they can - I want to see scans of your MRI's as proof. THEN tell me what teas so I won't face losing my sister from this incurable disease.

Thanks!

 

[SundancePass]

I totally without reservation support assisted suicide for those who are capable of making the decision. I have told my husband and adult children repeatedly that I want a morphine drip to go comfortably if I am ever in a painful condifion or ask for it. I have a notarized document to that effect in our safe. And I KNOW my DH will grant my wish. I just hope the kids will too.

My 90 year old mother has dementia, not Altzheimer's, and doesn't know where she is, who we are, etc. My brother and I have both signed DNR documents for her as we know that is what she wanted before she lost her mind.

Why should we suffer so horribly at the end of our lives? Why not go peacefully and let everyone have good memories of a sorrowful time instead of the vision of me writhing in pain on some sterile hospital bed? There is NO dignity in that. And as we are ALL going to die, religion IMO has NOTHING to do with it. Respecting the human and the human condition does.

I hope Minneosta passes the same law Oregon has.

 

[daisax]

Fortunately my mother is a nurse and our family is entirely on the same wavelength about extraordinary measures in general -- my entire life I have been threatened with horrific haunting and mayhem should I permit certain things to happen to my parents in their dying days!

Fortunately she only lasted 6 days. I say fortunately, because those 6 days were living hell for both her and the rest of the family. I will never forget the look of sorrow and helplessness on my husband and FIL's face as they watched MIL writhing in pain and begging for it to be over.

The hospice nurse doubled her morphine dosage, and I firmly believe she did so as an act of mercy, knowing that it would cause her to slip away and end her suffering. My MIL died peacefully in her sleep that night, and I will be forever grateful to her for allowing my husband and FIL to see MIL finally at peace in her last moments, instead of watching her die in agony.

I'm so sorry for your loss. My father also died from multiple myeloma and the oncologist told us afterwards that at the very end sometimes the cancer "explodes" and causes superhuman amounts of pain. He was on triple lethal doses of morphine for 4 days before he finally passed.

My father was a stoic all his life -- had root canals without anesthetic! -- walked around with a broken back for a year before it was diagnosed (multiple myeloma) and didn't like taking the pain pills because they made his knees weak. So when he was lying on that bed and wincing, we knew he was in a kind of pain we had never experienced and nobody should.

Thankfully, he was in a hospital and liberally medicated, but we had to convince each shift nurse that we knew exactly what was going on, because they'd give us a look, and we'd say flat out "yes, it will suppress his respirations, but it doesn't matter now!" They needed that reassurance that we weren't going to turn around and freak out and say that they killed him.

And those afraid of doctors "rushing things along" -- my friends and family who are doctors and nurses tell stories of families who subject their loved ones to outrageous amounts of pain and suffering because they want Grandma to see her 100th birthday (when Grandma hasn't been conscious in 3 months), who want Mama to die a "natural" death but want her 92 year old bones crushed to dust by CPR if she has a heart attack, and want her to get daily injections of medication even though she has such frail skin and no fat at all that they're agonizing every.single.time and she's got dementia and doesn't know why she's being hurt.

So even if you object to outright euthanasia, PLEASE think long and hard about refusing things like antibiotics or heart meds when your loved one is already mostly beyond this earth. Some deaths are simpler than others, and shorter than others. There are other methods to letting somebody go naturally than turning off ventilators.