ethics of keeping a dog outside

[wildernesslodgelover]

my knee-jerk reaction was but clearly you're not one of those people who would just chain them outside with no food and dirty water. Those types...

honestly...i have a ChowChow and she LOVELOVELOVES to be outside, whenever she can. Thing is, she loves to be next to me even more, but if i wasn't a factor, she'd probably just chill outside 24/7. She cheats sometimes - if we leave the sliding door open, she'll sit just inside, so she can still look out/sniff the air, but be inside with me at the same time.



and obviously, it's your home, so you'd be around if things went terribly wrong. i think that's way better than the poor baby being locked in a kennel in a building at night by itself in a shelter.



like with my Chow, she can go out and play in the snow for HOURS because she has a big thick fur coat. She LOVES snow!!! It's her favorite time of the year, probably cause she's finally not HOT anymore!

wild animals, though, good point...did you say you were in FLA? Are their gators in your area?

we don't live on the water. There are gators everywhere in west broward...but it would be a pretty far walk for one to get to my yard (I mean, a few blocks, which seems far for a gator, I think!)

Your Chow sounds sweet!

 

[PatsGirl]

I have absolutely no problem with people who treat dogs like dogs Most of the dogs I've had preferred being outside and a couple only came in during the bitter cold or rain because that's the only time they wanted to come in.

Now, I do have a huge problem with people who treat dogs like babies, dress them up, carry them in pocketbooks, take them into restaurants Each to their own but I've always said that anything shorter than my knees is not a real dog

We have a new kitten who is climbing the walls trying to get outside. It breaks my heart to keep him indoors when all he really wants is to chase mice or whatever it is that cats do, lol but it's DD's cat and I let her decide in or out.

 

[davids68girl]

I agree with the statement that dogs need to be well cared for. Period. You sound like you have thought about their care in the heat of summer and the cold of winter. I think they would be happy with 2 of them in their pack also. I would try a shelter instead of a rescue group. I have adopted all 3 of my dogs and in my experience, the shelters are much more willing to give a dog a home than the rescue groups. There were many more requirements to get my Corgi from the rescue than my German Shepherd from the shelter.

 

[wildernesslodgelover]

I agree with the statement that dogs need to be well cared for. Period. You sound like you have thought about their care in the heat of summer and the cold of winter. I think they would be happy with 2 of them in their pack also. I would try a shelter instead of a rescue group. I have adopted all 3 of my dogs and in my experience, the shelters are much more willing to give a dog a home than the rescue groups. There were many more requirements to get my Corgi from the rescue than my German Shepherd from the shelter.

My only issue is this....I either need to get a young dog....or a dog I KNOW has been raised around kids. I know that many times, animal services has no idea on the history of a dog. We have kids at our house all the time and I need to know there will not be an issue.

I would really love to adopt an older dog...I think they have a tougher time getting adopted. I just need to know some sort of history on the dog. That is the only reason I was leaning towards a rescue group originally.

BTW...this is the site I was looking at and crying. I hope it is ok I post it. Such beautiful dogs...I am just sure they are all not going to find homes, and it breaks my heart.

http://www.petharbor.com/results.as...elterlist='MIAD'&atype=&where=type_DOG&PAGE=1

 

[DawnCt1]

Mmm, dogs are animals and animals are designed to like outside. They've somehow survived for thousands of years that way. Nothing cruel about it in my opinion. Cruel to leave them outside, ridiculous.

Wolves, coyotes and hyenas are "designed" to like the outside. Dogs are "designed" to like the outside some of the time, but they have also been designed over the centuries to be part of a larger, human pack. While it may not be "cruel" to leave them outside, there is a risk of having unsocialized dogs that may become aggressive to the owners, to guests invited onto the property, and yes, to intruders who may sue the owners.

 

[kafitty]

Your Chow sounds sweet!

she is...to me, anyway! i rescued her from my friend's family, who barely knew how to care for A dog, nevermind a Chow (they're a pretty high maintenance breed, moreso than say, a lab). She wasn't socialized, and never *really* bonded with anyone until me and my ex took her in. She loves us to pieces though, and is still totally a daddy's girl, even though she rarely gets to see him anymore (just a distance thing...i get "I miss my baby" text messages from him at least once a month, hahah)

pictures...'cause i can.

Note: yes, she's not a purebred Chow, but i love that she doesn't have the smooshy face. She does have a purple-ish tongue though!

my biggest fear is that some hunter sees this coming towards him one day and thinks it's a black bear.

this is totally her "post", she sits at the top of the stairs and observes her kingdom.

 

[wildernesslodgelover]

LOL...look at MIgrandma's signature. She posted on this thread on the first page...that bear looks just like your dog!

She really is beautiful. She is a lucky dog!

Dawn-Unsocialized dogs? I won't have those. Promise. Not relevant to this thread.

 

[java]

My 2 cents is that Southern Florida(I'm thinking Miami) is going to be way too hot for dogs to be outside all summer long. Shade not withstanding. I think it's not the best idea. The heat and humidity do not mix well for dogs.
Up here in NJ we have friends that have outside dogs. But when it's too hot in NJ we are talking like 95- they bring the dogs inside.

Curious as to why you would think Dogs before security system?

 

[MIGrandma]

Wolves, coyotes and hyenas are "designed" to like the outside. Dogs are "designed" to like the outside some of the time, but they have also been designed over the centuries to be part of a larger, human pack. While it may not be "cruel" to leave them outside, there is a risk of having unsocialized dogs that may become aggressive to the owners, to guests invited onto the property, and yes, to intruders who may sue the owners.

There is only a risk of having "unsocialized dogs" if the owners don't pay any attention to them or not allow them to be around other dogs. Dogs that live indoors can become aggressive also.

 

[MIGrandma]

LOL...look at MIgrandma's signature. She posted on this thread on the first page...that bear looks just like your dog!

She really is beautiful. She is a lucky dog!

Dawn-Unsocialized dogs? I won't have those. Promise. Not relevant to this thread.

In the second photo kafitty posted, her dog does look like a bear!!

 

[DMickey28]

I honestly don't know that I have issues with dogs being specifically outdoor dogs, per say. However having just moved from S. Florida I don't think that's fair to have a dog being a strictly outside dog there. It's just too hot. Especially for a breed that would be considered a good guard dog like a Shepard.

We also just bought a house on just over an acre and have not thought about needing guard dogs because it's a large lot. We have talked about getting a second dog that might warn us of visitors and movement outside since our current dog could care less if a tornado came through. He was a stray we adopted when we lived in South Florida and he has had a very very rough life. He is an 8 year old hound mix, about 75lbs now, he was 50lbs when we adopted him. He could not handle a walk outside for very long down there because it was too hot ... in no way would he be "patroling" the lot.

I don't know ... doesn't seem like the best idea in my book ... am not from an "it's cruel for the animal perspective solely".

 

[MM27]

Dogs should be part of the family- I think it's cruel to keep them exclusively outside.

Florida summers are to hot and humid to keep dogs outside. Plus, I never understood the premise of keep a "guard" dog outside. Not to mention it is just cruel to keep a dog outside exclusively. You would be better off buying a good security system for your house.

Around here, the shelters would never let someone adopt a dog if they said it was going to live outside.

 

[wildernesslodgelover]

My 2 cents is that Southern Florida(I'm thinking Miami) is going to be way too hot for dogs to be outside all summer long. Shade not withstanding. I think it's not the best idea. The heat and humidity do not mix well for dogs.
Up here in NJ we have friends that have outside dogs. But when it's too hot in NJ we are talking like 95- they bring the dogs inside.

Curious as to why you would think Dogs before security system?

You must have missed my post, #12, first sentence.

Did you also see about my fan system/barn/swimming pool? And the posts about people not having A/C in SoFla until the past couple of decades?

DMickey-You are right, I do forsee the dogs lounging in the barn area more than actually "patrolling" but I like the idea of them being able to hear any activity on the property. Also, if anyone cases the place, they will see the dogs and maybe move on to the next house.

My DH feesl strongly about all of this, due to the economy, rising crime etc. I just told him about this thread and he was stunned that anyone would be against it. He started ranting a bit about how this question would be insulting in at least 50% of other countries...where EVERYONE lives outside, has no health care, drinks dirty water etc. I never even thought about that, he makes a great point.

 

[DMickey28]

we don't live on the water. There are gators everywhere in west broward...but it would be a pretty far walk for one to get to my yard (I mean, a few blocks, which seems far for a gator, I think!)

Your Chow sounds sweet!

Were we lived in Boca we did not live near water but that didn't stop the biggest looking iguana ever from sitting in front of my door way one morning. I about died when I walked around the corner with DS running ahead of me to the front door ... Granted the iguana was more scared of me than I was of him but if he could get there so could a gator.

He was much larger facing you and standing up!!

 

[wildernesslodgelover]

Around here, the shelters would never let someone adopt a dog if they said it was going to live outside.

Miami Dade Animal Services would, I pormise you. They kill tons of dogs daily. Did you look at the link I posted? Did you see all those dogs availabe? Maybe the little, cute ones will get adopted...but the big, "ugly" ones? Would my set up be worse than death? Really?

 

[wildernesslodgelover]

Were we lived in Boca we did not live near water but that didn't stop the biggest looking iguana ever from sitting in front of my door way one morning. I about died when I walked around the corner with DS running ahead of me to the front door ... Granted the iguana was more scared of me than I was of him but if he could get there so could a gator.

He was much larger facing you and standing up!!

Oh yes, I see iguanas all the time. They like to live *NEAR* water, but not *IN* water, like gators. I am not worried about them attacking a dog, though.

 

[DawnCt1]

My DH feesl strongly about all of this, due to the economy, rising crime etc. I just told him about this thread and he was stunned that anyone would be against it. He started ranting a bit about how this question would be insulting in at least 50% of other countries...where EVERYONE lives outside, has no health care, drinks dirty water etc. I never even thought about that, he makes a great point.

But this isn't "other countries"; its this country. In some other countries they eat dogs and cats too, but we don't do that here, so I am not sure its a "great point". I would opt for a security system. Someone who was intent on getting onto your property to cause harm, could easily shoot a dog. If you are really concerned about security, a security system would be wiser and cheaper in the long run.

 

[DMickey28]

You must have missed my post, #12, first sentence.

Did you also see about my fan system/barn/swimming pool? And the posts about people not having A/C in SoFla until the past couple of decades?

DMickey-You are right, I do forsee the dogs lounging in the barn area more than actually "patrolling" but I like the idea of them being able to hear any activity on the property. Also, if anyone cases the place, they will see the dogs and maybe move on to the next house.

My DH feesl strongly about all of this, due to the economy, rising crime etc. I just told him about this thread and he was stunned that anyone would be against it. He started ranting a bit about how this question would be insulting in at least 50% of other countries...where EVERYONE lives outside, has no health care, drinks dirty water etc. I never even thought about that, he makes a great point.

I am torn because I understand you desire for safety. I am very familar with your area and I understand your fear with your friend being held up. Honestly, with a young DS and another on the way, it was one reason for us moving home ... I just wonder if there is a better way. A guard dog will protect your house from the inside as well ... I have a bump on a log but my mom has a dog that doesn't miss a sound. My friend in Plantation who has a dog that does not let you drive in the driveway without letting you know.

The other concern is that by adopting a dog you can't gaurantee that the dog will be a protector or guard dog. That is a challenge we are having. We LOVED adopting our dog and we want to adopt another one, a little younger, but we have no way of knowing if they will be more alert than our hound. You might be best getting two pups, raising them in this enviroment then trying to search out TWO dogs that have been strictly outdoor dogs ... odds are with the crazies out there (and especially in that area) most of the outdoor dogs that end in the shelters will not be put out for adoption, sadly.

Good Luck in your decision .... Like I said, we just bought a house with just over an acre. We are in the middle of nowhere in New Hampshire!

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I don't have an issue with dogs being kept outside persay. It's the law that a dog must be cared for: fed, sheltered and provided medical care.

The problem that some people have with dogs being kept outside is that these dogs often become "forgotten", as in "out of sight, out of mind".

I worry sometimes about dogs I see left outside, in a practical way, for instance:

I know where I live, in the summer and fall you can't step outside without getting eaten alive by mosquitos. How must that be for a dog? And hopefully that dog is receiving heartworm prevantative or he will certainly end up with heartworm disease being bitten by that many mosquitos.

My area is also swarming with coyotes. The Audobon Society follows coyote droppings and what they find are dog and cat remnants, so no question outdoor pets are at risk of becoming dinner, even when fences are involved.

I'm really, really worried about the prospect of keeping two dogs as guard dogs. Dogs who aren't led by people will lead themselves, and two dogs being left to lead themselves is frankly, scary. If one isn't bad enough, two develop a pack mentality - that is, they will do things together that neither might do individually. What happens if they get out? What happens if you have friends over? Will friends and family be reluctant to visit? How will your neighbors feel about their barking incessantly? Will your Homeowner's Insurance cover you knowing you own guard dogs? Will you tell them? How will you feel if they harm someone other than a person they're guarding against? Because, realistically, they're probably more apt to bite someone visiting as opposed to breaking in.

Owning German Shepherds my whole life these are some of the issues I've had to think through as well. It's been a big challenge for me keeping them friendly and reliable so they don't bite. Realistically, they know the difference between friend and foe because we have a great relationship that we've worked on for countless hours; they know we're in charge and they take their cues from us. That reciprocity comes from being together most of the time. BTW, a good guard dog will alert their owner, but then let the owner take over. I would not own a "guard dog" as you're talking about based on things I've seen happen over the years to others I've known in similar situations. Too risky. Any dog in my house is going to be kept friendly, yet I have no doubt that the protection will be there if needed.

I'd have to agree with those who recommend a good electronic security system if it's worry free security you're looking for. Good luck with your decision.

 

[wildernesslodgelover]

But this isn't "other countries"; its this country. In some other countries they eat dogs and cats too, but we don't do that here, so I am not sure its a "great point". I would opt for a security system. Someone who was intent on getting onto your property to cause harm, could easily shoot a dog. If you are really concerned about security, a security system would be wiser and cheaper in the long run.

I'll say it again. Please see post 12, my first sentence.