Epic Universe Poll

[Sandisw]

It's crazy that Helios doesn't provide any Express Pass even for IOA/US with what the rooms cost

From info we have been given, they won’t ever give Express pass to any more hotels.

 

[Chuck S]

I answered maybe...I have a cousin in Miami, and he and his husband want to do Epic Universe, so I invited them on my stay next June. And really, I want to do the Harry Potter stuff. But once I do, I think it will be a one and done type thing, and I'll go back to just Disney.

 

[PolyRob]

From info we have been given, they won’t ever give Express pass to any more hotels.

Oh wow! I wonder how long it will be before Uni starts removing the benefit from the legacy deluxe resorts

 

[Sandisw]

Oh wow! I wonder how long it will be before Uni starts removing the benefit from the legacy deluxe resorts

It doesn’t sound like that is the plan…but that no future resorts will ever include it.

Just the original three. Even Loews Sapphire doesn’t get get, which is part of the signature level.

 

[PlutoNotPlanet]

Not next trip. Nor next next. But yes next next next
We have been there twice during the preview staying at SSR. It's more about how many days your strip has and whether you will miss WDW or the resort. Hotels around universal studios are cheaper though. I remember you don't hate split stays, otherwise you have to be staying at BWV

 

[PlutoNotPlanet]

They are not planning to add Express pass to Helios.

Especially now Mine-Cart and the Battle at the Ministry are included!

 

[AstroBlasters]

Especially now Mine-Cart and the Battle at the Ministry are included!

That does make a huge difference…. I wish I knew when the after hours events and extended evening hours were going to be…. it would make planning a lot easier….

 

[thanxfornoticin]

Not this next trip - but definitely in the future!

 

[toesmom]

I thought this might be interesting. Please add any additional insights in the comments to and let us know if your next WDW stay will be a DVC resort , other Disney resort, Off Property (gasp!) or Universal…

our next trip is in December at our home resort BWV, but we will do one day at EPIC. I know it will be $$$$

 

[PlutoNotPlanet]

That does make a huge difference…. I wish I knew when the after hours events and extended evening hours were going to be…. it would make planning a lot easier….

Yeah, recently EEHs are not that predictable (i.e., Epcot Monday and MK Wednesday). There are AK/HS Wednesdays now, plus the halloween parties.
But if you are interested in Epic and would like to save some DVC points, starting your trip at Epic for one day (not another half) and then move to WDW doesn't sound bad. I hear the crowd and the delay are much better now. If you really like it, you can add another day later when staying at DVC even if that's VGF

 

[atthebeachclub]

We'll go but I suspect not until 2028 at the earliest.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Oh wow! I wonder how long it will be before Uni starts removing the benefit from the legacy deluxe resorts

You have to understand the benefit is not at all the same set up as what you see at Disney.

Universal partnered with Loews Hotels for the 4 hotels (Royal Pacific, Portofino and Sapphire Falls and Hard Rock). The Express Pass inclusion was an agreement with the specific hotels an agreement that has not been thus extended to any other hotels but the 3 (Royal Pacific, Portofino and Hard Rock). Monetarily speaking it is not advantageous for the hotel company to include it especially as the agreement thus far has been you get Unlimited EP check in through check out date so 1 night nets you 2 days of Unlimited EP.

I don't know how the agreement was set up so I don't know if there's an expiration date or an ability by Loews to retract it but it helps Universal by having it so I'm not sure that they would want it to go away at least for the foreseeable future.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Just the original three. Even Loews Sapphire doesn’t get get, which is part of the signature level.

That's because Sapphire Falls was not Premier hotel (what is now Signature). It was a step down at Preferred level and when they revamped the levels they bumped it up. I think most of us thought they would put Helios in its own category and leave the existing categories. From a confusion standpoint it would have helped keep the 3 that get EP together and the new (and pricey) hotel of Helios in its own category.

 

[Tatebeck]

You have to understand the benefit is not at all the same set up as what you see at Disney.

Universal partnered with Loews Hotels for the 4 hotels (Royal Pacific, Portofino and Sapphire Falls and Hard Rock). The Express Pass inclusion was an agreement with the specific hotels an agreement that has not been thus extended to any other hotels but the 3 (Royal Pacific, Portofino and Hard Rock). Monetarily speaking it is not advantageous for the hotel company to include it especially as the agreement thus far has been you get Unlimited EP check in through check out date so 1 night nets you 2 days of Unlimited EP.

I don't know how the agreement was set up so I don't know if there's an expiration date or an ability by Loews to retract it but it helps Universal by having it so I'm not sure that they would want it to go away at least for the foreseeable future.

Are the Express Pass partnerships a better deal for Universal? I was under the impression it was a better deal for Loews and that Universal was the one who chose not to extend the offer to Grand Helios.

I have seen so many reports of people abusing the system by booking 1 night reservations they don't even use to get 2 days of express pass for their entire party. In that example the hotel still gets money for nothing, they don't even have to clean the room afterwards. But Universal has a bunch of people that got Express Passes for way cheaper than they normally sell them

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Are the Express Pass partnerships a better deal for Universal? I was under the impression it was a better deal for Loews and that Universal was the one who chose not to extend the offer to Grand Helios.

Without the EP inclusion it would be harder to charge the price they charge for the upper hotels, it certainly helps at least increase bookings for those particular hotels.

I don't think anyone has said it was Universal that chose not to as it was never an expectation that Helios would get it due to the agreement set up and if it was a choice by Universal where at a whim they can just add it as an addendum it would have been better for them to do that for Sapphire Falls when they bumped it up to the same category as the other 3. Pretty much all that I've seen alluded to is this agreement is like a costly symbiotic one in which neither party can really do without it (at least not without some real downsides).

I have seen so many reports of people abusing the system by booking 1 night reservations they don't even use to get 2 days of express pass for their entire party.

There is nothing against any rule set up by the hotel that would say you are going against the rules.

It's also not technically your entire party, it's guests staying under the hotel reservation and your EP is your room key so you can't just book the hotel for 5 people and think you're getting access for all 5 people if the hotel room's occupancy limit is 4 (as an example) nor could you have that benefit be used for someone not listed under the hotel reservation so if say someone in your traveling party is staying in a different hotel and isn't listed on your reservation. I know when we stayed at Royal Pacific our room occupancy was 3 (3rd person would have had a rollaway bed that is a charge), in our case we did do a split stay with Endless Summer Surfside and Royal Pacific although personally I preferred the parking garage at Endless Summer compared to the normal parking lot of Royal Pacific.

But I don't think we should try and turn the thread into a moral discussion here. I'm just explaining how that set up is a bit unique where there are stuff that are packaged up.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In terms of the poll I expect it to be skewed more heavily towards no as the overlap in DVC and Universal park goers wouldn't seem as high here. Just like if you asked on the Universal side how many people are DVC members you'd probably have a low number. While we aren't DVC member one of our DISer friends who was up until a few months ago a DVC member had already been planning to go to Epic (she's going in November IIRC) but she is a Universal person anyhow. Our other DVC friends have zero interest in Universal or for that matter other theme or amusement parks in general (like they declined going to Silver Dollar City with us when we went with our other DISer friends).

I do think there's a lot of interest in Epic, it's fresh and new and so people are willing to check it out when before the existing Universal parks were kinda meh to them IF they were big into Disney.

We toyed with the idea of doing Epic for our mini pitstop in Orlando next week on our way out of the country but opted not to because of spending the money we did for our cruise back in the spring. Our TM friend (that's a person who works for Universal) who is also a CM at Disney really wanted to get us in to Epic though with him under his passes but there were some kinks in that plan and it wasn't a serious consideration due to those kinks. It's no worry to us we know we'll be getting to Epic eventually. When Epic was first announced I had always toyed with do I want to go in 2025 when it's super new or do I want to wait it out a bit. I likened it to when we went to Universal in 2011 and Hogsmeade had only been open for a year and a few months and was still pretty hopping in crowds.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Without the EP inclusion it would be harder to charge the price they charge for the upper hotels, it certainly helps at least increase bookings for those particular hotels.

I don't think anyone has said it was Universal that chose not to as it was never an expectation that Helios would get it due to the agreement set up and if it was a choice by Universal where at a whim they can just add it as an addendum it would have been better for them to do that for Sapphire Falls when they bumped it up to the same category as the other 3. Pretty much all that I've seen alluded to is this agreement is like a costly symbiotic one in which neither party can really do without it (at least not without some real downsides).

There is nothing against any rule set up by the hotel that would say you are going against the rules.

It's also not technically your entire party, it's guests staying under the hotel reservation and your EP is your room key so you can't just book the hotel for 5 people and think you're getting access for all 5 people if the hotel room's occupancy limit is 4 (as an example) nor could you have that benefit be used for someone not listed under the hotel reservation so if say someone in your traveling party is staying in a different hotel and isn't listed on your reservation. I know when we stayed at Royal Pacific our room occupancy was 3 (3rd person would have had a rollaway bed that is a charge), in our case we did do a split stay with Endless Summer Surfside and Royal Pacific although personally I preferred the parking garage at Endless Summer compared to the normal parking lot of Royal Pacific.

But I don't think we should try and turn the thread into a moral discussion here. I'm just explaining how that set up is a bit unique where there are stuff that are packaged up.

“it was never an expectation that Helios would get it”

I firmly disagree with this. I think the expectation from anyone but hard core universal people is that if you stay at a Universal hotel in FL you get the Express Pass….

 

[Tatebeck]

Without the EP inclusion it would be harder to charge the price they charge for the upper hotels, it certainly helps at least increase bookings for those particular hotels.

I don't think anyone has said it was Universal that chose not to as it was never an expectation that Helios would get it due to the agreement set up and if it was a choice by Universal where at a whim they can just add it as an addendum it would have been better for them to do that for Sapphire Falls when they bumped it up to the same category as the other 3. Pretty much all that I've seen alluded to is this agreement is like a costly symbiotic one in which neither party can really do without it (at least not without some real downsides).

There is nothing against any rule set up by the hotel that would say you are going against the rules.

It's also not technically your entire party, it's guests staying under the hotel reservation and your EP is your room key so you can't just book the hotel for 5 people and think you're getting access for all 5 people if the hotel room's occupancy limit is 4 (as an example) nor could you have that benefit be used for someone not listed under the hotel reservation so if say someone in your traveling party is staying in a different hotel and isn't listed on your reservation. I know when we stayed at Royal Pacific our room occupancy was 3 (3rd person would have had a rollaway bed that is a charge), in our case we did do a split stay with Endless Summer Surfside and Royal Pacific although personally I preferred the parking garage at Endless Summer compared to the normal parking lot of Royal Pacific.

But I don't think we should try and turn the thread into a moral discussion here. I'm just explaining how that set up is a bit unique where there are stuff that are packaged up.

I never saw any confirmation one way or the other either. That's why I said it was just my personal impression of the system. I don't think we know the exact terms of the deal (if Loews has to give a certain $ amount to Universal for each pass, etc) so it would be hard to know for sure.

I never said anything was against the rules, just that they are abusing the system. I would confidently say that booking a "stay" at a hotel/resort when you do not intend to "stay" at that resort at all, and booking only one night to get the maximum amount of benefit days vs stay days, just so you can get some fringe secondary benefits is very likely not what they had intended guests to do when they set the deal up. So it is more an unintended consequence of the deal aka abusing the system the way it is set up.

And of course if you have more than the maximum number of guests for one room, you would need to book multiple rooms for that one night. They would still be booking one night reservations to get their entire party 2 days of express pass for as cheap as possible like I said. I never said that they were able to get over the room capacity limits for a single room...

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

“it was never an expectation that Helios would get it”

I firmly disagree with this. I think the expectation from anyone but hard core universal people is that if you stay at a Universal hotel in FL you get the Express Pass….

I can see where you'd go semantics on that. What I mean by never an expectation is those who were aware of an agreement to begin with. The general public is not likely to know and understand that. I think Universal made it more confusing, like I mentioned, when they adjusted their categories. I wouldn't say it's hard core Universal people though. I don't really consider myself hardcore but I am part of an internet forum that involves conversations that don't often happen with the general public so there is that.

To have 5 hotels in the Signature collection but 3 out of 5 getting a fairly big perk is confusing for the general public. That's why most of us (speaking towards people following along on the Universal side of the Boards) assumed they would put Helios in its own category, with direct access to a theme park (a brand new one at that) it wasn't expected that they would need EP nor get it. Like putting Helios in Signature collection and leaving the rest of the tiers the same would have made a ton more sense. And why bumping up Sapphire Falls made it even more confusing. I've seen some recent talk elsewhere on the internet with respects to Universal having thoughts in their back pocket for what they may choose to do in the future with perks and Helios though.

 

[PolyRob]

It doesn’t sound like that is the plan…but that no future resorts will ever include it.

Just the original three. Even Loews Sapphire doesn’t get get, which is part of the signature level.

That's reassuring! I guess if I wanted an entire Uni trip I would be forced to split stay.

I would honestly just visit Epic and overlap a night without losing my DVC room. Sleep at Helio, wake up and head to Epic, then go back to sleep that night at WDW