Enthusiastic about Genie+ touring

[cgattis]

But my numbers aren’t made up. They are based on the real ride capacity and past allocation.
They aren’t guesses. They are real numbers.

I don’t think that’s true. I don’t think you know the past allocation.

I think you have made lots of assumptions that you are calling facts. Some of them may be very good assumptions, because you clearly put thought into them and supported them with observed (not measured) data. But when you call them facts, you get crosswise with a lot of folks. Just sayin.

 

[dez1978]

Lucky you. Maybe you've gone during low attendance, maybe you got lucky. In multiple trips, I have never ever been able to get more than 1 of those in a day.

This board if full of people who have gotten all of them day of.. So sure, for you who has had awful luck apparently, being able to pay for what you otherwise couldn't get, thats great. But for the rest of us who could get what we wanted, its a giant upcharge to get the same thing we always did. I've never NOT ridden SDMT, and I've never stood in the standby lane OR paid to ride it. Being forced to pay or wait in a long line is not an improvement.
And I don't for a second believe that SDMT will be available to purchase at ANY time for anyone who wants it.

 

[luv2cheer92]

NOBODY could get more than 1 Tier-1 FP+, so you are either being disagreeable or untruthful about availability after you made your Soarin' selection.

Well as your initial 3 you couldn't. But you absolutely could day of after using those 3.

 

[havoc315]

This board if full of people who have gotten all of them day of.. So sure, for you who has had awful luck apparently, being able to pay for what you otherwise couldn't get, thats great. But for the rest of us who could get what we wanted, its a giant upcharge to get the same thing we always did. I've never NOT ridden SDMT, and I've never stood in the standby lane OR paid to ride it. Being forced to pay or wait in a long line is not an improvement.
And I don't for a second believe that SDMT will be available to purchase at ANY time for anyone who wants it.

That’s a bet I’m willing to take. Sure, might have to wait an hour. But I expect anyone will be able to ride Mine Train with purchase, with fairly wide open same day availability, certainly within 1-2 hours.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Lucky you. Maybe you've gone during low attendance, maybe you got lucky. In multiple trips, I have never ever been able to get more than 1 of those in a day.

In my experience, the more crowded the parks, the easier to get tier 1 FPs later in the day. More people in the parks meant more people changing their plans. Also higher attendance meant rides running at max capacity, so more FPs distributed. We've gotten FOP 3 times in a day before

 

[havoc315]

I don’t think that’s true. I don’t think you know the past allocation.

Fastpass allocation of ~70% of capacity has been widely reported for years, from multiple sources. Sure, it’s possible that all the published sources are wrong. But it’s the best information we have.

 

[havoc315]

NOBODY could get more than 1 Tier-1 FP+, so you are either being disagreeable or untruthful about availability after you made your Soarin' selection.

How am I being untruthful?!?

Correct—nobody could get more than 1 Tier-1 FP. The previous poster says they got all 3 in the same day on every trip.
For me, after riding Soarin on the day of the trip with my 5pm FP, there was no 4th FP availability for Test Track or Frozen.
What part of that is untruthful?

 

[Disneylover99]

In my experience, the more crowded the parks, the easier to get tier 1 FPs later in the day. More people in the parks meant more people changing their plans. Also higher attendance meant rides running at max capacity, so more FPs distributed. We've gotten FOP 3 times in a day before

That’s true. It’s like FP gold the week between Xmas and New Years, especially at the MK. Our August trips when attendance was much lower was more challenging in obtaining fp’s, in comparison to Xmas week anyways.

 

[JZCubed]

How am I being untruthful?!?

Correct—nobody could get more than 1 Tier-1 FP. The previous poster says they got all 3 in the same day on every trip.
For me, after riding Soarin on the day of the trip with my 5pm FP, there was no 4th FP availability for Test Track or Frozen.
What part of that is untruthful?

And in the immediate future, you’ll pay $15 to ride Soarin’ and either Test Track or Frozen with Genie+, and I’m guessing $25 more to ride Ratatouille (along with another $25 for either TT or Frozen).

And nothing will stop Disney from including pay-for-play for more than 2-rides. Because do you truly believe Guardians (and Tron) won’t be a pay-for along with the ‘current’ 2 that are selected?

I’m glad someone is happy to pay for what used to be both free and convenient for many of us.

No matter how many ways you keep saying it, both the 7am daily interaction with a smart phone & paying more for the privilege of doing so has already lowered Guest Satisfaction for the on-site guests who previously benefited from their experienceFP+.

Here’s the thing you keep missing - lack of certainty. On-site guests had some certainty about ride selection. Now, nobody will. If there was a way to capture aggregate guest satisfaction, I’ll bet Disney gains nothing - because mine, and many others, is already less. Because there is no certainty that 7Dwarfs, etc. will always be available on demand….at any price if enough people pay.

I am not alone in already having a desire to spend my marginally extra vacation budget on add-ons like Dessert Parties, but I’m not willing to spend more for something that was previously free…..and still has uncertainty.

In the absence of certainty, alternatives such as Universal become far more appealing - because people have certainty with ExpressPass.

I’m going to go one step further. After the nonsense of no FP+ thus summer, and before Genie announcement, my family had budgeted a VIP tour into our next trip to Disney. Now, Disney is asking my family to budget the same $3500 differently. I can go with Genie and spend the money over a week, or I can chop hotel nights and accomplish as many rides with a VIP tour. Does Disney win or lose if my family spends the same amount at the Parks, but less on hotel & dining

By my estimation - you likely think you’ve won because fewer guests are at Disney.

I’m suggesting that might be so in the short-run, but Disney will try to fill their rooms - and you’ll be no better off, unless you simply want to pay for the privilege to be at Disney.

 

[havoc315]

And in the immediate future, you’ll pay $15 to ride Soarin’ and either Test Track or Frozen with Genie+, and I’m guessing $25 more to ride Ratatouille (along with another $25 for either TT or Frozen).

And nothing will stop Disney from including pay-for-play for more than 2-rides. Because do you truly believe Guardians (and Tron) won’t be a pay-for along with the ‘current’ 2 that are selected?

It's true, they could add more rides to the LL list, excluded from Genie+. But if they go too far, then nobody will buy Genie+. In the end, guests will vote with their wallets. If they want people to buy Genie+, then it has to include the vast majority of attractions.

No matter how many ways you keep saying it, both the 7am daily interaction with a smart phone & paying more for the privilege of doing so has already lowered Guest Satisfaction for the on-site guests who previously benefited from their experienceFP+.

How can something that hasn't happened yet, have lowered in-park guest satisfaction? I see lots of people "unsatisfied" on a message board, people who haven't actually tried it.

What daily 7am interaction? This is exactly the type of misstatement that is feeding the uproar. There would be no reason to a "7am interaction with a smartphone" unless you're trying to get a 8am return time. Most people will never have to interact with their phone at 7am. You'll interact with your phone an hour or two before boarding the ride. Which is much better than being on a standby line for an hour or two.

Here’s the thing you keep missing - lack of certainty. On-site guests had some certainty about ride selection. Now, nobody will. If there was a way to capture aggregate guest satisfaction, I’ll bet Disney gains nothing - because mine, and many others, is already less. Because there is no certainty that 7Dwarfs, etc. will always be available on demand….at any price if enough people pay.

There is certainly fear that rides won't be available, etc. But that's not how the system will work.
There should be little difficulty getting any attraction you want, for almost any time you want. There may be some exceptions, but that's how MaxPass worked and how old FP worked. You decide at 1pm you want to ride Splash Mountain? Ok, go get in the 1 hour standby line, or just pull a Genie+ for a 3pm return time.

I expect Genie+ will provide far more "certainty" than FP+.

Let's look at FP+...
67 days in advance, for the 7th day of my trip, I book FOP FP at 8am, Safari at 9am and River Rapids at 10am...
Great, locked in with certainty!
But hold on..... what if, after a week of vacation, my family wants to sleep in instead of showing up for an 8am FP? What if we arrive and my family suddenly decide they would much rather do Expedition Everest than River Rapids?
What if it's pouring rain all day... closing the River Rapids, and making Animal Kingdom a miserable pick for the day?

Compare that to Genie+ and LL: Ride any ride I want, virtually any time I want. If rain is in the forecast, switch Animal Kingdom to another day. My family doesn't want to do an early morning at 8am? No problem, I'll get a 2pm Genie+ for Navi, followed by 2:30pm LL for FOP, followed by 3:00pm LL for Safari, followed by 4pm River Rapids followed by 6pm Expedition Everest.

The certainty of being able to do anything I want, whenever I want... is far better than the certainty of having to lock in a narrow plan 60+ days in advance.

 

[Salf777]

I’m so amazed that so many people have plans and have figured out if it’s good, bad, worth it, not worth it, this ride will be full, I have to get up at 7 to get any reservations and it will work better for on sight or off site guests and the app hasn’t even launched yet?
Maybe we can get some restaurant reviews from people looking at pictures of the food?

 

[havoc315]

Epcot plan under G+ and LL:
I'll plan this as a late arriving day, but I'll take advantage of on-site evening hours!

I'll presume this is a 10am-10pm day, with extra hours from 10pm-midnight.

Sleep in. When I wake up, buy LL to the Rat for 6pm. I won't spend money on Test Track. I'll eat lunch at my resort. Swim a bit. In the early afternoon, I'll book Soarin G+ with a 3pm return time.
I'll show up at Epcot a bit before 3pm.... Go straight to Soarin. Ride Soarin with G+ at 3pm. As I board, I'll book a 5pm Frozen G+.
Ride Soarin at 3pm. Do Living the Land on Standby after Soarin. Maybe I'll see Awesome Planet, or head over to the Seas pavilion. All things with little or no wait time.
By 5pm, I'll make my way to Frozen, ride with G+. As I arrive at Frozen, I'll book a 8pm Mission Space. Then Grand Fiesta on Standby.
At 6pm, I'll arrive at the Rat for my LL.
After LL, I'll eat dinner. in the World showcase.
After dinner, I'll redeem by Genie+ for Mission Space.
I'll then find a good spot to watch Harmonious.
After Harmonious, at the start of Extended Hours, I'll go do Spaceship Earth. By 11pm, I'll head out to Test Track for a fairly short line. I'll also repeat Soarin if I feel like it, maybe repeat Frozen.

So no 7am race for the smart phone. Purchasing only 1 of the 2 LL offerings. Don't even arrive until 3pm, and still get every attraction done without any significant waits.

If I wasn't eligible for extended hours... the only necessary switch, I'd go on a night when extended hours aren't being offered, and I'd either buy LL for Test Track, or simply try to ride at the end of the night, right as Harmonious starts.

 

[havoc315]

I’m so amazed that so many people have plans and have figured out if it’s good, bad, worth it, not worth it, this ride will be full, I have to get up at 7 to get any reservations and it will work better for on sight or off site guests and the app hasn’t even launched yet?
Maybe we can get some restaurant reviews from people looking at pictures of the food?

Or skip the pictures of the food, review based solely looking at the cover of the menu.

 

[quandrea]

My sources are suggesting it's 7am Genie+ for everyone. But attraction purchases are 7am for onsite, tap-in for off-site.
Yes, things may still change.

You also don’t really consider the massive cost this is for families with multiple children. I have three and multiplication is a real negative where the Genie is concerned.

I ran the numbers for my situation. We travel down seven times a year using our dvc when we have an annual pass. The Genie and IAS could cost thousands over the course of a year. There is a marked decrease in value under this new regime.

I’ll just buy a one day hopper every few years and do a vip tour. It will be cheaper and fewer headaches. Less unknowns too.

 

[JZCubed]

It's true, they could add more rides to the LL list, excluded from Genie+. But if they go too far, then nobody will buy Genie+. In the end, guests will vote with their wallets. If they want people to buy Genie+, then it has to include the vast majority of attractions.




How can something that hasn't happened yet, have lowered in-park guest satisfaction? I see lots of people "unsatisfied" on a message board, people who haven't actually tried it.

What daily 7am interaction? This is exactly the type of misstatement that is feeding the uproar. There would be no reason to a "7am interaction with a smartphone" unless you're trying to get a 8am return time. Most people will never have to interact with their phone at 7am. You'll interact with your phone an hour or two before boarding the ride. Which is much better than being on a standby line for an hour or two.



There is certainly fear that rides won't be available, etc. But that's not how the system will work.
There should be little difficulty getting any attraction you want, for almost any time you want. There may be some exceptions, but that's how MaxPass worked and how old FP worked. You decide at 1pm you want to ride Splash Mountain? Ok, go get in the 1 hour standby line, or just pull a Genie+ for a 3pm return time.

I expect Genie+ will provide far more "certainty" than FP+.

Let's look at FP+...
67 days in advance, for the 7th day of my trip, I book FOP FP at 8am, Safari at 9am and River Rapids at 10am...
Great, locked in with certainty!
But hold on..... what if, after a week of vacation, my family wants to sleep in instead of showing up for an 8am FP? What if we arrive and my family suddenly decide they would much rather do Expedition Everest than River Rapids?
What if it's pouring rain all day... closing the River Rapids, and making Animal Kingdom a miserable pick for the day?

Compare that to Genie+ and LL: Ride any ride I want, virtually any time I want. If rain is in the forecast, switch Animal Kingdom to another day. My family doesn't want to do an early morning at 8am? No problem, I'll get a 2pm Genie+ for Navi, followed by 2:30pm LL for FOP, followed by 3:00pm LL for Safari, followed by 4pm River Rapids followed by 6pm Expedition Everest.

The certainty of being able to do anything I want, whenever I want... is far better than the certainty of having to lock in a narrow plan 60+ days in advance.

You continue to chide folks for complaining about a system that hasn't happened yet.

However, what is happening right now and will continue to happen - even when Genie is 'live' - folks have zero ride certainty.

That you cannot grasp how folks have lost something (ride certainty) shows you are simply being disagreeable.

At best, folks can expect to pay for the certainty of 2-rides per day, not the previous 3-rides. [2 will always be less than 3 free FP+.]

Further, do we know how return times will work?

At 7am, will people be able to request 7:30pm 7Dwarfs so they can be close to fireworks or will folks have to hope there is availability when they look at Lightening Lanes add-ons?

Moreover, your timeline shows Lightening Lanes will have extensive dexterity to cancel, reschedule, etc. - based on what information? Will Lightening Lanes cost $10, $25, $50? Will prices vary by time of year, time of day? Will cancelations come with a fee?

Ya'see, once you answer, "We don't know," - you blow many of your own arguments out of the water. Because you know as little as everyone else.

You are hoping things turn out the way you want, but you are no less certain about what will happen than any of the rest of us......because Disney is purposefully obfuscating - other than the fact that people will be paying for what was previously free.

However, uncertainty is a loss - for all of us - and it's happening right now.

We are all losing, right now.

So you can paint as rosy a picture as you like for yourself and others, but you are basing your arguments on assumptions and with (alleged) facts not yet evidenced.....no differently than some of the criticisms you claim to be fighting.

All the while, you are overlooking and/or are ignoring the obvious - ride uncertainty is a loss for countless guests, both on-site & off-site (like local annual pass holders) - no matter how much we can each afford to pay and will be paying.

 

[KittyKitty]

I'll do Epcot and Magic Kingdom later in another post. If I go to those parks on nights with extended hours, they will be super easy.

I like your thinking. You've given me some great ideas.

 

[VandVsmama]

I'm looking forward to using Genie+. We used Max Pass before at DL and it was FAR superior to FP+.

 

[havoc315]

You continue to chide folks for complaining about a system that hasn't happened yet.

However, what is happening right now and will continue to happen - even when Genie is 'live' - folks have zero ride certainty.

Nothing in life is certain. Rides break, storms cancel flights.

But I strongly suspect there will be more ride certainly than with FP+.

I’ll know I can book a LL/G+ at any time. That’s great certainly. So if my bus runs late, if I oversleep, I’m still certain I’ll get the ride I want.

My next trip is just a 2 day trip in February, President’s weekend. I am virtually certain I’ll be able to get FOP and Mine Train with LL.

Right now, if FP+ still existed, can you be certain that I’d be able to get FOP FP for my first morning and Mine Train FP for my first night?

Seems Genie+/LL is giving me far more advance certainty.

At best, folks can expect to pay for the certainty of 2-rides per day, not the previous 3-rides. [2 will always be less than 3 free FP+.]
At best, folks can expect to pay for the certainty of 2-rides per day, not the previous 3-rides. [2 will always be less than 3 free FP+.]

Further, do we know how return times will work?

At 7am, will people be able to request 7:30pm

yes, that’s how LL will work.

G+ is next available. LL is purchase a specific time slot.

And WORST case scenario is 3 passes per day. Best case is 8-10 per day. Most likely, 4-5 per day.

 

[Turksmom]

Epcot plan under G+ and LL:
I'll plan this as a late arriving day, but I'll take advantage of on-site evening hours!

I'll presume this is a 10am-10pm day, with extra hours from 10pm-midnight.

Sleep in. When I wake up, buy LL to the Rat for 6pm. I won't spend money on Test Track. I'll eat lunch at my resort. Swim a bit. In the early afternoon, I'll book Soarin G+ with a 3pm return time.
I'll show up at Epcot a bit before 3pm.... Go straight to Soarin. Ride Soarin with G+ at 3pm. As I board, I'll book a 5pm Frozen G+.
Ride Soarin at 3pm. Do Living the Land on Standby after Soarin. Maybe I'll see Awesome Planet, or head over to the Seas pavilion. All things with little or no wait time.
By 5pm, I'll make my way to Frozen, ride with G+. As I arrive at Frozen, I'll book a 8pm Mission Space. Then Grand Fiesta on Standby.
At 6pm, I'll arrive at the Rat for my LL.
After LL, I'll eat dinner. in the World showcase.
After dinner, I'll redeem by Genie+ for Mission Space.
I'll then find a good spot to watch Harmonious.
After Harmonious, at the start of Extended Hours, I'll go do Spaceship Earth. By 11pm, I'll head out to Test Track for a fairly short line. I'll also repeat Soarin if I feel like it, maybe repeat Frozen.

So no 7am race for the smart phone. Purchasing only 1 of the 2 LL offerings. Don't even arrive until 3pm, and still get every attraction done without any significant waits.

If I wasn't eligible for extended hours... the only necessary switch, I'd go on a night when extended hours aren't being offered, and I'd either buy LL for Test Track, or simply try to ride at the end of the night, right as Harmonious starts.

Oh, for goodness sake- how are you "booking" Soarin' with a 3pm return time? Are you refreshing your phone while you're in the pool? Eating lunch? In the restroom? until that window opens?
You are assuming that you will be able to do all of the things you're imagining to perfectly execute your plan.

 

[havoc315]

Oh, for goodness sake- how are you "booking" Soarin' with a 3pm return time? Are you refreshing your phone while you're in the pool? Eating lunch? In the restroom? until that window opens?
You are assuming that you will be able to do all of the things you're imagining to perfectly execute your plan.

Easy. I’ve done it with MaxPass and old paper FP. I simply grab the pass a couple hours earlier.

Yes… I’m assuming it will operate somewhat close to how it’s supposed to operate.
For some reason, you’re assuming it won’t operate anything like it’s supposed to operate.