Engagement issues already....

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think that would be out of the norm. The previous poster offered a gift, and the couple was free to accept, decline, or choose to pay part of the wedding themselves. It would be the groom's responsibility to work out any issues with his parents, if he chose to. I'm not implying that you are saying this, but I don't think one side should approach the other in deciding what they are willing to offer but rather should work through the couple.

No I wasn't saying that at all really.

The poster said her son-in-law's family expects all the kids to pay for their own weddings while the poster has/will pay for all of their kids weddings. It's a fundamental difference in how the two families operate.

I do think it is the son's responsibility to work out with his family absolutely.

 

[Nancyg56]

Yeah I'm in the boat of my husband is amazing...his mom she has her moments for sure. Seems like your son-in-law turned out great in comparison to how his family can be.

I wasn't insinuating you were soliciting the other family for money so hopefully you weren't taking it that way. I was more or less saying it seems like a core value (could be totally wrong here) is that the future son-in-law's family expected their kids to pay for their own weddings. Maybe the paying for the whole wedding stepped on their toes of what their family weddings are like and they would have preferred being considered in that instance though it sounds like discussing how they do their weddings would have been hard if they wouldn't talk with the couple. I don't agree at all with the treatment they have given you or your daughter that's for sure so sorry with how it's all turned out.

LOL! I wish that was the case. No. My DSIL was on his own before he hit 15. They never encouraged education, etc. My DD insisted he complete his education, my DH stepped in and acted as a father when he needed help, and he has surpassed whatever low expectations hs mother had for him. (They "Blame" DD for this?????) They should be glad for her because she is the one who toes to maintain a relationship, DSIL will not share his phone number.

No, we did not step on toes, unfortunately.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

LOL! I wish that was the case. No. My DSIL was on his own before he hit 15. They never encouraged education, etc. My DD insisted he complete his education, my DH stepped in and acted as a father when he needed help, and he has surpassed whatever low expectations hs mother had for him. (They "Blame" DD for this?????) They should be glad for her because she is the one who toes to maintain a relationship, DSIL will not share his phone number.

No, we did not step on toes, unfortunately.

Well that's good to hear that the son-in-law had great people to be in his life (aka you guys). That's really why I was asking..not trying to assume anything just asking. In this case we have you to provide the answers to the questions asked unfortunately we only have the mother of the bride in this thread instead of the other people too.

 

[Nancyg56]

Smart, smart, smart. No matter how screwed up someone's family is, it is still their family and their will, usually, always be some small feeling of loyalty.

FTR I see offering money for the wedding as a different thing. Offering to help financially is a gift. It would be a different thing (this is just hypothetical) if you put conditions on your offer that deliberately excluded the groom's family, but merely offering an amount, or offering to pay for certain (or all) things is something very different.

Yes, The amount we paid forr DD covered all expenses. DS wedding was a little less, but evened out at a jack and Jill shower that was not a ticketed event. It was a party. My oldest got an amount that equaled the wedding expense of the other two, but DDIL was gifted wth a shower and rehearsal dinner. I cannto say if it all evened out, I do nto roll that way. We never excluded anyone, but neither DH or I was willing to solicit anyone for help. WE did nto place any conditions on the gift.

No I wasn't saying that at all really.

The poster said her son-in-law's family expects all the kids to pay for their own weddings while the poster has/will pay for all of their kids weddings. It's a fundamental difference in how the two families operate.

I do think it is the son's responsibility to work out with his family absolutely.

I should clarify. My DSIL parents expected him to pay his own freight from his teenage years. If he was getting married they expected hm to pay for that too. FUndamentally we do differ. My DH would rip his own arm off and tear his heart out of his chest before he would watch any of our kids struggle. As would I. ANd neither one of us would ever intentionally create a divide between our kids and their new family.

 

[Nancyg56]

Well that's good to hear that the son-in-law had great people to be in his life (aka you guys). That's really why I was asking..not trying to assume anything just asking. In this case we have you to provide the answers to the questions asked unfortunately we only have the mother of the bride in this thread instead of the other people too.

Yes, and the OP is filtering the info though her own screen.

I can see both sides of this story, but I think that the real one is buried somewhere.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Yes, and the OP is filtering the info though her own screen.

I can see both sides of this story, but I think that the real one is buried somewhere.

I agree, we don't normally get the whole story. In this case, I think we actually did. The real story appeared to slip out in the OPs second post. The wedding was planned around the Bride's sister's schedule, with no consideration for how that affected the groom's family. Anyone that had a problem with that was being difficult. The only part of the story we didn't get was whose idea that was.

 

[Nancyg56]

I agree, we don't normally get the real story. In this case, I think we actually did. The real story appeared to slip out in the OPs second post. The wedding was planned around the Bride's sister's schedule, with no consideration for how that affected the groom's family. Anyone that had a problem with that was being difficult. The only part of the story we didn't get was whose idea that was.

I think you are right.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Personally, I'm not saying one thing or another, what I am saying is that the MOG feels overwhelmed by time and money constraints and she has the right to voice that without being "difficult" or "taking the fun out of planning."

But my point I was making is we don't know that the mother of the groom is feeling anything really..just all of us, including the op, assuming what she is or isn't feeling.

I think if someone says they are feeling overwhelmed take that at face value. If the couple hears that and respects that, but continues to move on with their plans as they have chosen then they need to take the MOG's feelings into consideration in regards to their wedding and wedding planning.

My point, and others too, is that it hasn't been advised to us that the couple is ignoring how the mother-in-law is feeling. That is an assumption, based on people's experience, that many are making.

Sneaking around and setting a date without talking to the MOG about it, regardless of their choice, doesn't seem like this couple is approaching this situation with a lot of maturity to me.

That I do agree with. They should still talk with the mother of the groom regarding the wedding plans.

The mature thing would be to sit down and talk to the MOG and acknowledge her feelings and come up with a plan that allows her to still be involved to the best of her ability, financially and physically, without making her feel overwhelmed or left out.

Going out and secretly setting the date and not telling the MOG abut it is not starting this relationship with the MOG on solid footing.

Yes the mature thing to do would be talk it out agreed. From the OP's first statement I don't think they secretly set the date then didn't talk with the mother of the groom after that. I believe they set the date, told the mother of the groom who asked the date to be moved, the couple chose to stick with their date but haven't discussed that part with the mother of the groom. Now they should quite honestly talk with the mother of the groom after this and not try to exclude her by not telling her details absolutely agree on that.

If my son (he's 10 this is hypothetical) came to me and said he was getting married on November 1st and I asked him to postpone a few months and then he went out and reserved a venue without telling me 1st and keeping it a secret after I can tell you I would not feel very kindly towards him or his fiancee. The sneaking around and secret keeping would, to me, seem like a deliberate disregard of my feelings.

Yeah the sneaking around=no good. If after they discuss it all and the mother of the groom doesn't include herself for whatever reason at least the couple tried and that is better than not trying.

My point and some other people's point though is regarding asking the couple to change the date. I don't presume to know how everyone's family dynamics are but some of the comments come off like "well if my child didn't change their date after I asked them too...." though I'm not actually making that statement directed at you just as a general statement.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I should clarify. My DSIL parents expected him to pay his own freight from his teenage years. If he was getting married they expected hm to pay for that too. FUndamentally we do differ. My DH would rip his own arm off and tear his heart out of his chest before he would watch any of our kids struggle. As would I. ANd neither one of us would ever intentionally create a divide between our kids and their new family.

Sounds like I grew up a lot like your son-in-law (I paid for my car, my college and my wedding, my house as well with zero financial aid from my family) and my husband grew up a lot like your daughter; and I'm not meaning that in a bad way at all so please don't take it that way-I don't begrudge my husband the financial assistance he received from his family at all, and I wouldn't begrudge your daughter for the aid she got as well, though they didn't help on our wedding nor house nor did we ask them to. Though my family never treated me like your son-in-law seems to have been treated by his family.

 

[roseaster]

But my point I was making is we don't know that the mother of the groom is feeling anything really..just all of us, including the op, assuming what she is or isn't feeling.

My point, and others too, is that it hasn't been advised to us that the couple is ignoring how the mother-in-law is feeling. That is an assumption, based on people's experience, that many are making.

That I do agree with. They should still talk with the mother of the groom regarding the wedding plans.

Yes the mature thing to do would be talk it out agreed. From the OP's first statement I don't think they secretly set the date then didn't talk with the mother of the groom after that. I believe they set the date, told the mother of the groom who asked the date to be moved, the couple chose to stick with their date but haven't discussed that part with the mother of the groom. Now they should quite honestly talk with the mother of the groom after this and not try to exclude her by not telling her details absolutely agree on that.

Yeah the sneaking around=no good. If after they discuss it all and the mother of the groom doesn't include herself for whatever reason at least the couple tried and that is better than not trying.

My point and some other people's point though is regarding asking the couple to change the date. I don't presume to know how everyone's family dynamics are but some of the comments come off like "well if my child didn't change their date after I asked them too...." though I'm not actually making that statement directed at you just as a general statement.

I am going only on the OP's statements that the MOG said she couldn't afford it and didn't have the spare time to help which is why she asked them to postpone in the 1st place.

Then the OP said that they decided to keep the date, booked the venue and put down a deposit and haven't told the MOG about it and refuse to talk about the wedding in front of the MOG.

Again, if these are mature, grown adults and they have what they feel is a very legitimate reason to maintain the date as it is, then they should sit down and explain it to the MOG.

There may, very well, be a good reason they need to maintain the date, or they, or the bride may be doing it just out of spite. Regardless of the reasons, not sitting down and explaining it and discussing it with the MOG makes it look like they are doing it just out of spite, and most relationships being what they are, the MOG is going to, most likely, blame the bride.

I get it. I have a sister and we are very close. It would be very important to me that she be in my wedding. I would try to accommodate both my sister and the MOG, but if I couldn't I would forego my MIL's financial assistance to make sure my sister would be in my wedding. However, I would make sure that she understood how important it was to me and how there is no other possible solution.

As others, and I have said. This is the beginning of a 50 year relationship with your MIL, it's no way to start it by projecting the image that you don't care about her feelings.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I am going only on the OP's statements that the MOG said she couldn't afford it and didn't have the spare time to help which is why she asked them to postpone in the 1st place.

Then the OP said that they decided to keep the date, booked the venue and put down a deposit and haven't told the MOG about it and refuse to talk about the wedding in front of the MOG.

Again, if these are mature, grown adults and they have what they feel is a very legitimate reason to maintain the date as it is, then they should sit down and explain it to the MOG.

There may, very well, be a good reason they need to maintain the date, or they, or the bride may be doing it just out of spite. Regardless of the reasons, not sitting down and explaining it and discussing it with the MOG makes it look like they are doing it just out of spite, and most relationships being what they are, the MOG is going to, most likely, blame the bride.

I get it. I have a sister and we are very close. It would be very important to me that she be in my wedding. I would try to accommodate both my sister and the MOG, but if I couldn't I would forego my MIL's financial assistance to make sure my sister would be in my wedding. However, I would make sure that she understood how important it was to me and how there is no other possible solution.

As others, and I have said. This is the beginning of a 50 year relationship with your MIL, it's no way to start it by projecting the image that you don't care about her feelings.

Agree mostly. Though can't afford and don't have spare time is being interpreted multiple ways by multiple people.

I can't be for sure, it's been obviously a long time since the OP last wrote, but did the OP state the mother of the groom said she is overwhelmed by time and money constraints or is it an assumption? Saying you can't afford or provide additional time is one thing but saying you are overwhelmed is another thing-that's a large reason why you have differing opinions on it. Some had families who did a whole lot when it came to the wedding some did not. ETA: Post-poning a wedding in this case could be a personal desire the mother-in-law has to give more of whatever to her son or it could be a practical thing if the couple is expecting more than the mother-in-law can give.

Sure we can all say that she could be overwhelmed based on the circumstances but again that is still an assumption and then when other posters try to say she may not be, or the couple may not be expecting financial aid or more time/money than the mother of the bride can provide they are told in not so many words that they are wrong because of a myriad of reasons. Obviously we won't get the full story.

Apologies if the OP said the mother of the groom was overwhelmed it's hard to remember/find what the OP said after the first page or two.

 

[Nancyg56]

Sounds like I grew up a lot like your son-in-law (I paid for my car, my college and my wedding, my house as well with zero financial aid from my family) and my husband grew up a lot like your daughter; and I'm not meaning that in a bad way at all so please don't take it that way-I don't begrudge my husband the financial assistance he received from his family at all, and I wouldn't begrudge your daughter for the aid she got as well, though they didn't help on our wedding nor house nor did we ask them to. Though my family never treated me like your son-in-law seems to have been treated by his family.

My DSIL came up hard. When he and DD were in a committed relationship we had reservations. His background was so different than DD's.

WE had always insisted that the kids find their own way as they grew up and they were expected to support themselves as they matured. DD was very responsible, her job alone woudl e able to support this little family, wit instances and long range plans I place. The same wth my sons. Had they been is different places we may not have gifted them with weddings, those funds would have been reserved for when they really needed them! LOL!

I think that the difference in treatment is fundamental in how you view your family and how DSIL views his. WE chose to gift our kids with weddings, but if we had not, that would nto have changed our relationships. Like your family love was not conditional.

DSIL family fell off the boat a log time before he and DD found each other. It's funny, for a while I was worried, but that was unfounded. They are perfect for each other. Same with my boys. The women in their lives are a fit for them. Thank God!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

My DSIL came up hard. When he and DD were in a committed relationship we had reservations. His background was so different than DD's.

WE had always insisted that the kids find their own way as they grew up and they were expected to support themselves as they matured. DD was very responsible, her job alone woudl e able to support this little family, wit instances and long range plans I place. The same wth my sons. Had they been is different places we may not have gifted them with weddings, those funds would have been reserved for when they really needed them! LOL!

I think that the difference in treatment is fundamental in how you view your family and how DSIL views his. WE chose to gift our kids with weddings, but if we had not, that would nto have changed our relationships. Like your family love was not conditional.

DSIL family fell off the boat a log time before he and DD found each other. It's funny, for a while I was worried, but that was unfounded. They are perfect for each other. Same with my boys. The women in their lives are a fit for them. Thank God!

Sounds like a good strong family you've got there

 

[cabanafrau]

But not in this case? seems some in this thread are keen to see the groom being taught a lesson for not moving his date.

I really question if roles were reversed and the groom wedding was booked first and the sister decided to have hers two months before or after would this Mother be saying "it's your brothers year, I really want to focus 100% on his wedding, and if you don't move your date I won't really help you" can't see her giving that ultimatum to a daughter

It is truly a marvel you know what I'm thinking more than I do. Amazing feat, truly a marvel.

I'm always fascinated by the assumptions people make. For me it's a window into who they are as a person.

 

[cabanafrau]

I'm 49 years old & I don't know a single person who was thrown an elaborate college graduation party by their parents. its definitely outside the norm where I live.

An elaborate celebration is unlikely. However it's possible mom would like to attend, which might mean she needs to either take at least a day off work (or more), or do some kind of horsetrading to swap schedules -- close on the heels of his wedding, which is relatively close on the heels of his sister's.

 

[Disneybuckeye]

For those questioning if money was an issue with the MOG below is a synopsis of the original post:

"She said they should plan on 2018 because that would be financially much better for her. Grooms mom then said she doesn't have time to deal with his marriage with his sister's so close. Grooms mom said she was hopeful her son would graduate and be in his field longer. Next concern was, how will you financially be able to pay student loans and live day to day. The list goes on." This was the MOBs take on the situation. I take this with a grain of salt.

I agree with some of the above posters that it is very immature to go behind MOGs back and does not bode well for the future.

I am surprised that more people are not concerned about the college aspect for the groom and sister. The wedding is the weekend before Thanksgiving. I have had three children graduate college in the last four years. Most colleges are out Wed-Fri for Thanksgiving. Lots of tests, papers, and projects happen from that Friday - Tuesday to finish things up for the long weekend and to gear up for the last month before exams. I am surprised college students would choose to commit a whole weekend at that time for a wedding.

I am going to also hope the sister is within a few hours drive of the wedding. All of my kids had mandatory Friday classes some years (and one or two were 3-5 PM) and there is no way to know for either student if this will be the case. Hopefully she has a car and can drive herself home and someone does not have to go pick her up. If she has to fly it could be really interesting. Also, the holiday is the next weekend. If it is really far she might not be able to come home two weekends in a row which would make me sad as a mom if my daughter had to miss family Thanksgiving.

My DD was a four year varsity lacrosse starter in college. Every day from January-May is not taken up with the sport as there are strict NCAA rules in place. If the sister talked to her coach she could most likely work something out for a weekend before games started. Also, the second weekend in January most colleges are not in session. Personally I would prefer my child have the wedding between semesters so it does not affect their studies. I also feel it would be better for the groom if his classes were complete. I know people might worry about weather in January, but my sis and I were both married the same weekend in early November. Beautiful and sunny for mine. Blizzard and ice for hers.

The bottom line is the bride and groom made a choice which is their right. They need to now be adults and own up to it. I can't imagine one of my son's sneaking behind my back like this and telling my future inlaws I am difficult.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

"She said they should plan on 2018 because that would be financially much better for her. Next concern was, how will you financially be able to pay student loans and live day to day.

It's why it would be financially better for her that is unknown. Does that mean she wanted to give a "better" gift but would be strapped for cash due to her daughter's wedding, is it because she was going to be assisting in the finances for the wedding or accommodations for guests or other things such as venue, catering, etc? None of that is known just that it would be financially better for her. The plan could have been the mother of the groom assists financially and the couple decided to forgo that extra assistance in favor of keeping their date. Who the heck knows.

FWIW a parent does not have to be paying for their child's wedding to be concerned about their child paying for student loans or living day to day. In fact I would say that's absolutely a normal thing for a parent to be concerned about regardless of their child's financial security or how old they get.

I am surprised that more people are not concerned about the college aspect for the groom and sister. The wedding is the weekend before Thanksgiving. I have had three children graduate college in the last four years. Most colleges are out Wed-Fri for Thanksgiving. Lots of tests, papers, and projects happen from that Friday - Tuesday to finish things up for the long weekend and to gear up for the last month before exams. I am surprised college students would choose to commit a whole weekend at that time for a wedding.

I personally didn't bring the college issue to my forethought because I have no idea how their college and not only that but department or subset (i.e. school of ...department of... or college of liberal arts and sciences, etc)does things. There are way too many variables to even get into that can of worms.

 

[roseaster]

For those questioning if money was an issue with the MOG below is a synopsis of the original post:

"She said they should plan on 2018 because that would be financially much better for her. Grooms mom then said she doesn't have time to deal with his marriage with his sister's so close. Grooms mom said she was hopeful her son would graduate and be in his field longer. Next concern was, how will you financially be able to pay student loans and live day to day. The list goes on." This was the MOBs take on the situation. I take this with a grain of salt.

I agree with some of the above posters that it is very immature to go behind MOGs back and does not bode well for the future.

I am surprised that more people are not concerned about the college aspect for the groom and sister. The wedding is the weekend before Thanksgiving. I have had three children graduate college in the last four years. Most colleges are out Wed-Fri for Thanksgiving. Lots of tests, papers, and projects happen from that Friday - Tuesday to finish things up for the long weekend and to gear up for the last month before exams. I am surprised college students would choose to commit a whole weekend at that time for a wedding.

I am going to also hope the sister is within a few hours drive of the wedding. All of my kids had mandatory Friday classes some years (and one or two were 3-5 PM) and there is no way to know for either student if this will be the case. Hopefully she has a car and can drive herself home and someone does not have to go pick her up. If she has to fly it could be really interesting. Also, the holiday is the next weekend. If it is really far she might not be able to come home two weekends in a row which would make me sad as a mom if my daughter had to miss family Thanksgiving.

My DD was a four year varsity lacrosse starter in college. Every day from January-May is not taken up with the sport as there are strict NCAA rules in place. If the sister talked to her coach she could most likely work something out for a weekend before games started. Also, the second weekend in January most colleges are not in session. Personally I would prefer my child have the wedding between semesters so it does not affect their studies. I also feel it would be better for the groom if his classes were complete. I know people might worry about weather in January, but my sis and I were both married the same weekend in early November. Beautiful and sunny for mine. Blizzard and ice for hers.

The bottom line is the bride and groom made a choice which is their right. They need to now be adults and own up to it. I can't imagine one of my son's sneaking behind my back like this and telling my future inlaws I am difficult.

I would be concerned about the education aspect if I were the groom's mother, but I look on the education thing as he (the groom) isn't hurting anyone but himself taking on all that at the end of his final semester and then taking on student loans and trying to establish household at the same time.

The OP did say they would get raises once they got degrees, so maybe they aren't worried about the loan payments.

The bride doesn't have to worry about balancing planning a wedding and school because she will have graduated 6 months before. Perhaps the groom is also relegated to "show up and wear a tux" rather than "Show up and wear beige?"

 

[wonderlandwego]

It's why it would be financially better for her that is unknown. Does that mean she wanted to give a "better" gift but would be strapped for cash due to her daughter's wedding, is it because she was going to be assisting in the finances for the wedding or accommodations for guests or other things such as venue, catering, etc? None of that is known just that it would be financially better for her. The plan could have been the mother of the groom assists financially and the couple decided to forgo that extra assistance in favor of keeping their date. Who the heck knows.

FWIW a parent does not have to be paying for their child's wedding to be concerned about their child paying for student loans or living day to day. In fact I would say that's absolutely a normal thing for a parent to be concerned about regardless of their child's financial security or how old they get.

I personally didn't bring the college issue to my forethought because I have no idea how their college and not only that but department or subset (i.e. school of ...department of... or college of liberal arts and sciences, etc)does things. There are way too many variables to even get into that can of worms.

I don't think it's too unknown given that she has two of her children's weddings, a graduation, and upcoming major holidays all within an extremely short time period. I think that would be normal to realize that of course that would be an uncomfortable place to be in. I still don't understand why the Mother of the Bride wouldn't have empathy for the Mother of the Groom in that situation.

I would be concerned about the education aspect if I were the groom's mother, but I look on the education thing as he (the groom) isn't hurting anyone but himself taking on all that at the end of his final semester and then taking on student loans and trying to establish household at the same time.

The OP did say they would get raises once they got degrees, so maybe they aren't worried about the loan payments.

The bride doesn't have to worry about balancing planning a wedding and school because she will have graduated 6 months before. Perhaps the groom is also relegated to "show up and wear a tux" rather than "Show up and wear beige?"

It's clear, in my opinion anyway, that the bride is not thinking of anyone else besides herself. I'll add the groom to that too though. They are still in college, getting married is an adult milestone, but so is thinking of others and how to handle situations correctly. Sneaking and basically lying by omission behind your mother in law's back is starting on the wrong path, for marriage and for adulthood.

 

[Disneybuckeye]

Yes, the bride will be finished with college, but her sister, whose schedule is dictating the wedding time table, is not.