Elephant in the room....

[zavandor]

& as I pointed out, you’d be penalizing those who piece together reservations. Why should they be penalized because of walkers, who are technically not doing anything wrong?

And actually people who piece together a reservation make a favor to other members, collecting single nights into longer reservations that require less mousekeeping and other switch costs (like additional MB and front end CM time).

 

[cmwade77]

Well, as owners at the Grand Californian, I disagree with your premise.

We bought here because we are local and knew there would be times we would want to stay local, but also because they were offering too good of incentives to not do so.

Something that was an unexpected bonus for us is that we have found that we can trade into pretty much any resort we want at 11 months out and in many cases people trading give us more points (they offer) than we spend because they really want the Grand Californian at 11 months out.

So, while we only have 206 points, we are able to take at least one or two vacations in a studio (which is plenty for the two of us) for up to two weeks every year. This year we are doing two.

My point is, not everyone fits into one situation or the other.

 

[ParkHoppers]

Is the intent of walking to circumvent the 11 month booking rule? (of course we know it’s Yes). And under the circumstance of many people now trying to circumvent one of the two most important booking rules of DVC shouldn’t members have the right to ask DVC to try to stop this. If Disney is going to cancel FPs for those who cancel a room after they get their FPs (trying to circumvent a rule)then how is walking any different? I,m guessing walking will be addressed shortly.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Ex DVC Member here, bui truly believe the only fair way to book is the the old method. Booking back from reservation.

Yes, it was day to day, but it was fair.

 

[Bearval]

Is the intent of walking to circumvent the 11 month booking rule? (of course we know it’s Yes). And under the circumstance of many people now trying to circumvent one of the two most important booking rules of DVC shouldn’t members have the right to ask DVC to try to stop this. If Disney is going to cancel FPs for those who cancel a room after they get their FPs (trying to circumvent a rule)then how is walking any different? I,m guessing walking will be addressed shortly.

I wouldn't be surprised if and when they do. I do hear some people who complain that the cure will be worse than the problem but it doesn't have to be if it is done right. There is a clear pattern to recognize who is "walking" as opposed to who has to alter a vacation due to family emergencies, air fare etc. or if they are trying to piece together days as they become available for a vacation. When walking, people are dropping and picking up days(on multiple occasions) with the intent of defeating the 11 month booking window. Someone changing a reservation because they are trying to piece together days for a vacation is gonna be done at or after the 11 month window along with people trying to get airfare or dealing with a life event. DVD could just start a rule where if it appears you are attempting to defeat the 11 month window you can only alter the reservation a certain number of times before you have to cancel and rebook.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I mean at the end of the day, it's Disney's product, not ours. If the stadium in your example chooses to sell their product at a discount, that is their choice. I can't tell them not to do it. I can tell them that I choose not to buy because of that decision.

So that's your option. If you do not like the product that Disney has made, don't buy it. As an owner, you do have a small interest (kind of like being a shareholder in the stadium), so you do have another choice - you can vote with your stock at the owners meeting and advocate to Disney that they change the product. That again isn't really my choice - it's up to the Board of Directors.

Come back here when you open a motion to change the DVC rules on their agenda and want us to vote. Or don't buy / sell your interest.

 

[JETSDAD]

I wouldn't be surprised if and when they do. I do hear some people who complain that the cure will be worse than the problem but it doesn't have to be if it is done right. There is a clear pattern to recognize who is "walking" as opposed to who has to alter a vacation due to family emergencies, air fare etc. or if they are trying to piece together days as they become available for a vacation. When walking, people are dropping and picking up days(on multiple occasions) with the intent of defeating the 11 month booking window. Someone changing a reservation because they are trying to piece together days for a vacation is gonna be done at or after the 11 month window along with people trying to get airfare or dealing with a life event. DVD could just start a rule where if it appears you are attempting to defeat the 11 month window you can only alter the reservation a certain number of times before you have to cancel and rebook.

This would again only help people with larger amounts of points. There can't be anything stopping someone from simply adding on because they want a longer vacation than 7 nights. Those with more points can simply keep adding on without dropping and then drop everything they don't want in one move at the end.

 

[gillep]

This would again only help people with larger amounts of points. There can't be anything stopping someone from simply adding on because they want a longer vacation than 7 nights. Those with more points can simply keep adding on without dropping and then drop everything they don't want in one move at the end.

Exactly, I don't see how people think that restricting changes to only a certain number of times does anything but penalize low point owners or those with points tied up either banked or borrowed. Even if you don't what to do what you suggested here, you only need to walk a 7 night reservation every what 6 days to retain your room? So even if you restrict to three modifications without a flag you are still able to walk out a reservation just shy of three weeks in advance of the date you want. Now, if you are a lower point owner, or you need to work with banked or borrowed points which can complicate things, and you can't afford the points to walk a full 7 night reservation, then you would need to modify more often putting the lower point owners at a disadvantage, and allowing those with the points to do it to walk for a good period of time while only modifying the actual reservation a few times. I think some people mistakenly assume that you need to walk a reservation each day, and that it is therefore a lot of modifications, but if you have the points to walk a 7 night reservation it really isn't that many modifications, unless you want to book each day individually for some reason.

 

[Bearval]

Exactly, I don't see how people think that restricting changes to only a certain number of times does anything but penalize low point owners or those with points tied up either banked or borrowed. Even if you don't what to do what you suggested here, you only need to walk a 7 night reservation every what 6 days to retain your room? So even if you restrict to three modifications without a flag you are still able to walk out a reservation just shy of three weeks in advance of the date you want. Now, if you are a lower point owner, or you need to work with banked or borrowed points which can complicate things, and you can't afford the points to walk a full 7 night reservation, then you would need to modify more often putting the lower point owners at a disadvantage, and allowing those with the points to do it to walk for a good period of time while only modifying the actual reservation a few times. I think some people mistakenly assume that you need to walk a reservation each day, and that it is therefore a lot of modifications, but if you have the points to walk a 7 night reservation it really isn't that many modifications, unless you want to book each day individually for some reason.

I was only suggesting some ways that DVD could implement to stop walking if they do indeed think it is a problem that needs to stop. They could just put a rule in place that any reservation made at the 11 month window has to be canceled and rebooked if you need to make any modifications unless you held the reservation long enough that the day after your reservation has opened up to be booked by others at the 11 month window. Sure it would punish everyone who needs to make a modification but it would treat everyone the same.

 

[gillep]

I was only suggesting some ways that DVD could implement to stop walking if they do indeed think it is a problem that needs to stop. They could just put a rule in place that any reservation made at the 11 month window has to be canceled and rebooked if you need to make any modifications unless you held the reservation long enough that the day after your reservation has opened up to be booked by others at the 11 month window. Sure it would punish everyone who needs to make a modification but it would treat everyone the same.

Personally, I prefer to compete with walkers than any of the ideas I have thought up or have ever seen posted.

 

[Bearval]

Personally, I prefer to compete with walkers than any of the ideas I have thought up or have ever seen posted.

I would compete with the walkers also if I felt I needed to but I have been able to get what I want when I have wanted it so far. I am willing to bet the ones making the most noise on posts against stopping walking are people who walk.

 

[cmwade77]

I wouldn't be surprised if and when they do. I do hear some people who complain that the cure will be worse than the problem but it doesn't have to be if it is done right. There is a clear pattern to recognize who is "walking" as opposed to who has to alter a vacation due to family emergencies, air fare etc. or if they are trying to piece together days as they become available for a vacation. When walking, people are dropping and picking up days(on multiple occasions) with the intent of defeating the 11 month booking window. Someone changing a reservation because they are trying to piece together days for a vacation is gonna be done at or after the 11 month window along with people trying to get airfare or dealing with a life event. DVD could just start a rule where if it appears you are attempting to defeat the 11 month window you can only alter the reservation a certain number of times before you have to cancel and rebook.

I don't walk a reservation exactly (i.e. I don't pick a day near my date 11 months out and then change the start date every day), but in general we want to book 12+ days at the 7 or 11 month mark, so we have to add a day every day and I would hope they wouldn't stop that unless they increase the limit from say 11 + 7 days to 11 + 30 days or something like that.

The other option would be to say that the start date can't change until a certain point, but you can add days.

 

[bobbiwoz]

Is the intent of walking to circumvent the 11 month booking rule? (of course we know it’s Yes). And under the circumstance of many people now trying to circumvent one of the two most important booking rules of DVC shouldn’t members have the right to ask DVC to try to stop this. If Disney is going to cancel FPs for those who cancel a room after they get their FPs (trying to circumvent a rule)then how is walking any different? I,m guessing walking will be addressed shortly.

I hope so.

 

[Chuck S]

I don't walk a reservation exactly (i.e. I don't pick a day near my date 11 months out and then change the start date every day), but in general we want to book 12+ days at the 7 or 11 month mark, so we have to add a day every day and I would hope they wouldn't stop that unless they increase the limit from say 11 + 7 days to 11 + 30 days or something like that.

The other option would be to say that the start date can't change until a certain point, but you can add days.

There is no problem adding days to your existing reservation daily at the 11 month mark...that isn't walking. I really think a 11+30 window would be extremely detrimental to the DVC system as a whole.

 

[Liv&Leah]

What exactly is the problem with walking?

 

[DougEMG]

Lets be clear that while the booking system allows walking, what walking does is break the 11 month booking rule. So it is really just a loophole that hasn't been worth DVC's effort to fix yet.

In general walking doesn't work that well for me. I'm on the west coast and would have to be on the computer by 5am and that is a huge hassle.

The issue is that lots of people have valid reasons to make changes to their reservation. How do you identify a valid change with a "walking" change. Until you come up with that process, you can't stop walking without hurting the people that need to make valid changes.

Now here's a rough idea how you could identify walkers. Keep track of the original day the reservation was made, compare that to the current start date of the reservation after a change has been made. Was the original day now earlier than the 11 month window based on the current start date, if so, increase a change counter by 1. If your change counter hits 2, then, cancel the reservation and send the member an email saying they have to rebook the reservation as they violated the 11 month booking window.

So anyone making changes within the 11 month window can make unlimited changes just like they can now.

Anyone booking at 11 months can make 1 change such as adjusting for flights without losing their reservation.

But anyone walking that makes 2 walks, loses the reservation and has to start over again.

So this would limit walking to a maximum of 1 week, while still allowing people to make 1 change to their reservation if they booked right at 11 months.

Anyone booking at say 10 months would be able to make a ton of changes...

Having said this, I would have to run through some examples to see if this would work, but it is late and I need my beauty sleep.

 

[DougEMG]

Another way would be to keep track of the original start date and allow a new start date to be no more than 7 days later, period.

 

[Bearval]

I don't walk a reservation exactly (i.e. I don't pick a day near my date 11 months out and then change the start date every day), but in general we want to book 12+ days at the 7 or 11 month mark, so we have to add a day every day and I would hope they wouldn't stop that unless they increase the limit from say 11 + 7 days to 11 + 30 days or something like that.

The other option would be to say that the start date can't change until a certain point, but you can add days.

Yes, there are several ways t

Another way would be to keep track of the original start date and allow a new start date to be no more than 7 days later, period.

There are several different ways DVD could do it, some less painful than others but it would have to be something that is fair to all members regardless of the number of points they own.

 

[Bearval]

What exactly is the problem with walking?

The problem is that walking is going to get worse and not better as more people feel the need to do it. Instead of walking maybe one or two weeks ahead of the 11 month window they really want you could have people walking as soon as their UY points allow. As an example if I wanted a CL at AKL my home resort what would stop me from walking a reservation from Jan 7 ( DVC site has this as my 11 month window as of this morning) to right before my UY month which is June?

 

[Chuck S]

... what would stop me from walking a reservation from Jan 7 ( DVC site has this as my 11 month window as of this morning) to right before my UY month which is June?

Technically, you could do that now. I doubt 99.9% of members would want the hassle. I'm so glad I own at OKW, a relatively large resort with less demand. I've never had an issue getting in, unless the trips were inside the 7 month window, and even then, I've had great success.