Elephant in the room....

Discussion in 'DVC-Mousecellaneous' started by Jelly563, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. Jelly563

    Jelly563 Mouseketeer

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    I by no means intend on offending anyone with this message. It is something I read about here in every forum and believe people are not being honest with themselves.

    Disney deals with millions of people every year. There currently is an issue with booking reservations, walking, ect. They have to do SOMETHING.

    Let me see if I can relate the DVC to a baseball game. Tons of fans buy the cheapest ticket they can all the way at the top of the stadium, when the game starts, they try to move down to field level. Now those same ppl are complaining that they cant get a seat because they are all filled....

    The stadium (DVC) sees this as a problem and is now starting to check tickets. So... either buy better seats or sit in the seats you paid for. Im sorry, but 100pts isnt a lot of points so you dont have much skin in the game. Buy more points so u can stay in better rooms (1br /2br) or spend up for the better resorts (11 month advantage). The old..... buy cheap points, trade in at 7 months routine has RAN ITS COURSE and is NOT effective anymore. I am really sorry and sad about it too. So how do we deal with it ??

    We are a family, it just seems like people want to enable some other members and say, "Sure, buy 50 points and bank & borrow... you will be fine. I gotta tell you, 50 points is like, 2 nights, that's not a vacation. If you wanna stay, you gotta pay. Please stop watering down our product. Disney is expensive, it is also magical. I have always heard, you dont get something for nothing. Lets just try a little more of the honest, tough love with our advice. It is'nt personal, I have no idea who most of you are. If you want to know "if DVC is for me ?" ask yourself, are you prepared to save SOME money but spend EVEN MORE than you do now?? if the answer is YES, then DVC is for you. GBA (God Bless America)
     
  2. lovin'fl

    lovin'fl DIS Veteran

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    You ready for some flames. You will probably get some.

    I also am not a fan of all the folks who buy 25-80 points only and ALL want studios making it hard for others to get them. And they cram 5 people in said studios. Which puts more wear and tear on them (my poor BWV studios will need renovations sooner due to this and our dues will keep climbing...why did DVC put that flip down TV bed in there????).

    But I am also one who bought OKW for the cheap buy in and I use them all over the place at 7 months out (try not to stay at OKW). That is part of the selling point of DVC...the ability to use your points all over. Though we quickly realized how tough it was to book HHI in the summer so we added on there and BWV for F&W so we added on there and CCV for Xmas trips so we added on there.

    And, yep, I will walk too. It's allowed and I'll do it until DVC closes that option. I do have 255 at BWV and can do 1BRs but we bring family and friends a lot and are often trying for a studio or 2BR standard view and have trouble...so I walk. Was trying to get a studio and 2BR (since we are bringing friends with us) at CCV for Dec before Xmas and was walking. Heck yeah, I will since it is so hard to get. I was walking from early Nov and was almost there when I went on a cruise and forgot to flip my resie. So I had to go back in to vying for it at 8am with the masses and I tried for about 5 days but couldn't get it. So I booked a cabin instead. But I walked my BWV 2 BR stand view for F&W and had success there. Can't beat 'em, join 'em.
     
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  4. Madame

    Madame DIS Veteran

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    DVD is the one selling people 50 points after they lowered minimum buy-in beyond what is reasonable. The guides are the ones whipping out the AKV value chart saying “look what you can trade into at 7 months with your 50 points.” This is a DVD greed problem.
     
  5. lovin'fl

    lovin'fl DIS Veteran

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    ANd they are also the ones who added in the flip down TV beds to allow for 5 in studios to help folks use their small contracts.
     
  6. Madame

    Madame DIS Veteran

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    Yep, exactly.
     
  7. Jelly563

    Jelly563 Mouseketeer

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    ok, so now they are going the DVC2 route. I'm ok w it. Maybe they have realized their mistakes and are addressing it. I am also ok w Lovin'Fl because when u ran into an issue, you bought more. This way u can adapt with bigger rooms if need be. Thats what members of a club do, pay dues. The people who buy small, then complain the loudest are the ones who need to be addressed. I'm ok with fire, I walk around it everyday.
     
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  8. SpaceMountain77

    SpaceMountain77 Kidani Villager Victorian Gentleman Turtle Trekker

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    DVC2 is a speculation that has arisen in this discussion board. According to my guide, DVC is seeking to further restrict the purchase of resale contracts. Direct purchasers will continue to have the same access and opportunities.
     
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  9. Sandisw

    Sandisw Moderator Moderator

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    With a points based time share, it is always going to be first come first serve within the rules of the game. Any change to this changes the product. Right now one gets home resort priority for 4 months. The POS only guarantees 1. In terms of walking, the problem is the only way to truly fix is to not allow changes without a cancel and rebook. But that would have a huge impact on way more reservations than those walked. Sometimes I book a week of vacation because at 11 months I am not sure what 4 days within that week I will be going. When airfare comes out or I firm up my travel partners, I adjust. If I had to completely cancel and rebook that would be far greater issue for me than those that work. The fix, IMO, is worse than the problem. Now, in terms of people owning a low number, it doesn’t bother me because regardless of level, they have a right to the rooms as much as I do with my 800, soon to be 1000 points. I choose to simply understand best I can includIng what is going to be frustrating and make it work in my favor as best I can.
     
  10. aoconnor

    aoconnor WDW Nut

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    You shouldn't be ok with it because it's going to hurt availability for all of us, including yourself. Over time as more and more people sell their contracts at DVC1 resorts the new buyers will only be able to use them at the original 14 properties. Meanwhile, direct owners of the millions of new points coming at Riviera, Reflections and the next resorts after that will also be able to book the original 14 resorts, which they will since the originals are in the best locations. That combination will create significantly more competition at 7 months for everybody, whether you bought direct or resale.
     
  11. lovin'fl

    lovin'fl DIS Veteran

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    This. This is the best way and what we do.
     
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  12. Louis morrell

    Louis morrell Mouseketeer

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    Did you read this before you posted It? Your complaining because an owner who books a studio makes it hard for other owners to get them. Isn't that how a first come first serve system works. We all have equal opportunity to book within the rules. Where is the problem again?
     
  13. Louis morrell

    Louis morrell Mouseketeer

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    Jelly563 what is it you think you are entitled to within the system? If one has 100 points even if banked and borrowed they can book what that will buy. No different than money. If you have 500.00 saved and that will pay for 2 nights how is that harming someone else?
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
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  14. lovin'fl

    lovin'fl DIS Veteran

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    I didn't complain. OP complained. I am meh about it. I do think DVC messed up selling all those 25-80 point small contracts to new members. Once upon a time initial buy in had to be a certain amount like 165. DVC selling all the small ones kinda put it's system out of whack with more folks vying for studios than other units (more demand than studios available). I agree with the first come, first serve way of the system which is why we added on at HHI, BWV and CCV to get in at 11 months at 8am....though with my BWV standard view studios and my CCV studios for December that doesn't even work so I walk. I make use of the system as best I can.
     
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  15. com_op_2000

    com_op_2000 DVC Member since '93; One Hour from WDW

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    IMHO, the DVC system is what it is.
    If you made the mistake in not understanding what you were buying up-front then that is your issue.
    I only own OKW points, still trade out 95% of the time, and will continue to do so.
    I have 8 reservations already scheduled for this year, 6 already traded out. I have two that are still not eligible for trade-out yet, but when they are I will do so.
     
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  16. lovin'fl

    lovin'fl DIS Veteran

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    Well...to be fair...DVC keeps changing up it's own rules with all the restrictions they add and other crap they pull (or try to, like the 2020 points reallocation which, thank goodness, they reversed). So what I thought I was buying in 2006 has changed quite a bit. But I roll with the punches. All you can do...or sell.
     
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  17. Chuck S

    Chuck S DVC Boards Co-Moderator Moderator

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    i generally agree with the OP that small contracts are not good for the DVC system as a whole. But there ARE members who only travel to Disney every 3 years for whom a smaller contract can work, but I still think at least 100 points would be better to deal with with than 25 to 50. Remember. the first DVC, OKW, required a minimum purchase of 230 points when it opened. That is really the type of contract (or larger) that the system is geared for.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
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  18. ziravan

    ziravan Welcome Home

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    It was minimum 230 then they lowered it to 160 then 100 but would sell 50 if pushed then 50 for new owners and 25 for add ons.

    Now they’re trying to go back to 100 new/50 member.

    This is an effect of high point costs; they need to sell fewer points to make it work on a budget.

    That 230 point minimum at $51/point was $12,000 all in and that included theme park tickets for the better part of a decade.

    My 168 point Poly contract was more than twice that and didn’t include park tickets.

    A comparably priced contract today would be 1/3rd of the points.
     
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  19. bwvBound

    bwvBound DVC SSR & other timeshare

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    Agreed!

    When we first looked at DVC (1998), we were told of a minimum buy-in somewhere near that number (230 point). We walked away from the table thinking we'd never need/use so many points. Six years later we returned to considering DVC with more life-experience, travel-experience and timeshare-experience (discovery that we preferred 1BR units over studios). We looked at resales and we re-toured. The new offer was a minimum buy-in at 150 points and we figured we'd eventually need 200 points (1BR unit, BWV, 1 week each January). So, indeed, that prior minimum of 230 was really close to the mark!

    I don't see your elephant in the room?? Yes, I've heard others grumble ... but often find the problem based in the guests lack of experience, their individual penchant for drama, unrealistic expectations, etc. True, their expectations may have been 'set' by a Disney sales guide -- but perhaps they should have performed additional due diligence before signing the Mickey heads and dating the trees (reference to the sales contract).

    Reservations are available if you are willing to book a larger unit, change your dates, use the waitlist, etc. The guest should be prepared to learn the system, learn the tricks of the system and to get their game on!

    I agree with the thoughts in bold and feel your standard stadium model is interesting ... but not a best reflection of the stated problem. How about if the DVC Stadium had cheap seats in great locations ... side by side with more expensive seats in the same great locations? Cheap seats are more narrow ... expensive seats are wider, padded or even reclining with personal shade systems ... but all in great locations. Now, we have a rush for the "best location at the cheapest price." Sure, those cheap seats now sell out early as they have the same view of the games as the more expensive seats.

    Agreeing, especially with the bolded sections. New buyers should steered to a minimum of 1BR units rather than studios. However, this still won't work well if Disney is flooding the market with points backed by Bungalows in a resort that doesn't offer 1BR or standard 2BR units. :( Nor will it work if a family truly needs a 2BR unit, has points for a 2BR unit but the system doesn't offer sufficient 2BR or 3BR units to house them.

    To me, the elephant is the problem Disney created by setting Studio room occupancy equal to or greater than 1BR units. Occupancy, rather than point values, should have been a greater priority when educating guests/owners on mapping both their purchase and booking strategies. As that horse has already left the barn ... Disney ought to be incentivizing owners to purchase sufficient points to book those larger units.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
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  20. Brian Noble

    Brian Noble Gratefully in Recovery

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    OP: Welcome to my ignore list.
     
  21. jo-jo

    jo-jo DIS Veteran

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    I don't see how the size of contract makes one more or less "worthy" of booking a studio. Small contracts can only book every few years, so the off years there is no competition from them at all.

    I have no idea what the % of studios vs other rooms comes out to, but went we bought, we were looking for a step up from a room at pop. Not going from pop to a grand villa. We have 300 points, but probably 75% of our trips are studios. Every few years we bring kids /DGK so we need bigger rooms.
     
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