ECV judgement

[powellrj]

When I read these threads it reminds me why we always rent a car.

 

[olwyngdh]

Oh please. No one is saying you should be forcibly separated from you family just because you have a disability, and you know it. So please don't try to make this into something it's not.

Actually, that is exactly what was said--the person in the the ECV should load on the bus with only one family member if they need the help, and everyone else should wait in the line, including children as long as there is an adult that isn't using an ECV to wait with them.

 

[SLK1]

OP, get the ECV! It's your vacation and you should enjoy it as much as possible! Besides, it seems these days there are more people using them than ever, so no one bats an eye (says she who doesn't use the bus service).

I agree with what a PP said, Disney is the problem. Fix the system! When everyone here chimes in that "the next bus has a broken lift", FIX it! We pay enough for our tickets to expect a working transportation system. And if there is an issue with too many people boarding with ECV users, enforce a rule - any rule - so people know what to expect.

As an aside, we were in DisneyLand a few months ago and an ECV user ran into my DD7 - hard - enough to knock her chair over as she was eating. His family just looked on. DH said, "Whoa, whoa" so we could move our daughter and her chair, and the guy's wife leans down and very meanly said, "I hope YOU never have to suffer!". Really?! ECV families need to help the person using them - they're NOT easy to maneuver - and not blame everyone else for their problems. Sheesh! Guess we should have let him mow her over in silence???

Now don't get me started on the people with strollers who use them as plows through a crowded area!!

 

[practicallyperfect77]

I am slightly freaking out about my next trip. It's still 3 months out but fairly certain I have torn meniscus in my left knee. I walked 3 miles this morning and now can hardly walk in my house. No way could I make it a day at Disney. I don't think my sis and bro in law can push me in a wheelchair so very well may end up needing an ECV. We will be renting a car. Question b/c I have 0 experience in this dept.....can you easily get them in and out of a van?

 

[olwyngdh]

As an aside, we were in DisneyLand a few months ago and an ECV user ran into my DD7 - hard - enough to knock her chair over as she was eating. His family just looked on. DH said, "Whoa, whoa" so we could move our daughter and her chair, and the guy's wife leans down and very meanly said, "I hope YOU never have to suffer!". Really?! ECV families need to help the person using them - they're NOT easy to maneuver - and not blame everyone else for their problems. Sheesh! Guess we should have let him mow her over in silence???

The ECVs are hard to maneuver in the counter service areas--the guy definitely should have had a family member guiding him through so he didn't hit your daughter's chair--they could have easily asked you to let them through. If he did hit, he should have apologized. Thankfully, the only people I have hit have been my husband and daughter because they both step right in front of me thinking they are going to help!

With the reaction you got, I have to wonder how many of the ECV hate club the family had run into that day to overreact that way. I'm sorry it happened to you when you weren't doing or saying anything to them.

 

[lustergirl]

I am slightly freaking out about my next trip. It's still 3 months out but fairly certain I have torn meniscus in my left knee. I walked 3 miles this morning and now can hardly walk in my house. No way could I make it a day at Disney. I don't think my sis and bro in law can push me in a wheelchair so very well may end up needing an ECV. We will be renting a car. Question b/c I have 0 experience in this dept.....can you easily get them in and out of a van?

Well I can share some good news for your knee injury. I just had a partial menisectomy on my left knee a week ago and will definitely be ready for my trip in 3 months. The doctor went in and trimmed out the torn stuff on both sides of my knee. I feel better already and walking great so soon. I am starting therapy next week to strengthen my knee and even walked on the treadmill really slow this morning.

Get to a orthopedic dr asap and have them check it out. Modern technology in medicine and they can do anything real quick.

 

[LindaBabe]

Rent an ECV! Let other people roll their eyes if they want - it's YOUR pain you're mitigating. If you can back up and parallel park a car, you can ride a bus with an ecv. Just remember pulli pulli as the safari drivers say - SLOWLY SLOWLY

You might also want to take a cane for times when you want to get off. It helps to have something to lean on in lines.

 

[practicallyperfect77]

Well I can share some good news for your knee injury. I just had a partial menisectomy on my left knee a week ago and will definitely be ready for my trip in 3 months. The doctor went in and trimmed out the torn stuff on both sides of my knee. I feel better already and walking great so soon. I am starting therapy next week to strengthen my knee and even walked on the treadmill really slow this morning.

Get to a orthopedic dr asap and have them check it out. Modern technology in medicine and they can do anything real quick.

Thanks for the info. I had my ri h t knee scoped 4 years ago and left one doesn't seem as bad as the right one was before I had it scoped. Mri is on Tue and follow up with ortho isn't til Aug 18 ( that was the earliest appt our of all the knee surgeons at this group of docs). My concern is that from that appt it will be another 2 weeks til surgery and then I'm only 7-8 weeks out from vacay. Also been battling achilles tendonitis in right ankle for a year and a half. I can deal with that but not knee and ankle at the same time. I'm only 37...I keep singing Garth Brooks "I'm much too young to feel this dang old". Oh well...what doesn't kill ya makes ya stronger and I'll totally rent an ecv, but the thought of driving one scares the heck outta me. I don't even know how to drive a riding lawn mower. =)

 

[cattywampus]

Here is the bottom line on all of these threads. There are rude people and there are polite people. Period.

Using an ECV, pushing a stroller, belonging to a tour group, watching a parade, using a video camera, lining up for rides, or doing anything else at Disney does not make you automatically one or the other. You will find both types of people in every group.

 

[Toffeewoffy]

... or you guys could just have said you tore your cartlidge in your knee! I had to go and look menisectomy up on Google!! We call a menisectomy an arthroscopy over here.

I had mine done in October 2012, and did Disney on a walking stick in February 2013. It wasn't ideal, but I managed. I think we spent more time sitting around than actually walking around, but we've been a lot so it wasn't the end of the world to take it easy for once.

Once the arthritis in my left knee got to the stage where it was worse than the newly scraped joints in my right knee, that's when I knew I needed third party help - hello rented ECV! I was also in considerable pain last winter and sometimes just standing up straight felt like my joints were compacting.

Regarding running over people in the seating areas, there's no excuse for that! None! A couple of times I was directed to park on the edge or leave my ECV somewhere else (in the case of Sunshine Seasons) so I didn't cause an obstruction. That's fair enough. The ECV was left outside the main restaurant at every single one of our TS ADRs, too.

And apart from running over my own daughter's foot a couple of times (well, she will stand with one foot sticking out, far too close to the ECV, so what did she expect!) and only hit one other person the entire time - and that was when the faulty knob turned itself round to fast and instead of me gliding slowly forward a couple of feet in the queue, I rammed the guy in front, and then got wedged in one of the lane dividers!! I was profusely apologetic, and he said it was okay, but I know I hurt him.

 

[AmyB2006]

I am slightly freaking out about my next trip. It's still 3 months out but fairly certain I have torn meniscus in my left knee. I walked 3 miles this morning and now can hardly walk in my house. No way could I make it a day at Disney. I don't think my sis and bro in law can push me in a wheelchair so very well may end up needing an ECV. We will be renting a car. Question b/c I have 0 experience in this dept.....can you easily get them in and out of a van?

Will you have a van equipped to accommodate one? With a ramp and large enough back area to park it?

If not, they usually fold and someone will need to lift it into the back of a van/suv. Easier to life if you take the batteries out. Those suckers are heavy.

 

[goofy4tink]

I've been admonished by bus drivers for taking my ECV through a normal bus queue rather than going up to the handicapped loading area. One guy said something like "You make your life harder and my life harder, if other people don't like how we do things they can rent a car."

I've also had the experience of waiting for the next bus and finding that the next bus has a broken ramp, and then the next one after that was one of the old ones with the high-up lift that I just don't feel safe using. I think I finally got on the fourth bus that day. And I still got dirty looks from people in the bus line even though I'd been there much longer than any of them, which sort of triggered the realization that it was going to happen anyway, so why worry about it.

And this is where Disney is at fault. If they are going to accommodate physically challenged guests, they need to do it consistently. That should never happen to you...it's just plain wrong.

The issue is not scooter users, nor is it non-scooter users.

The problem is that nobody wants to wait for a bus. If Disney doesn't want unhappy snowmen, then they should provide better transportation options. Waiting more than ten minutes for a bus to show- any guest - is really unacceptable. Except I do have to credit Disney for moving a tremendous amount of people each day. Still, the system could be vastly improved.

Truly, I've been to WDW with large groups, and it is much harder to travel in a group of twelve than a group of four. Even with ADR's, parties of twelve wait a VERY long time to dine: normally 20-60minutes past our ADR! Small groups get to pass large groups all day long. My point is not to pit large parties against small ones...my point is that Disney's busing system needs improvement.

The WDW transportation system is flawed, not the guests.

The best we can do, is try to be civil to each other. Here on the DIS, and at WDW. We'd do well to play it forward and share each other's joy. Relish the little girl whose laughing with grandpa...it might just be their last visit together.

I have to disagree...the transportation system isn't flawed. It is mass transit, and anyone that lives close to a large city, and has used their mass transit system, will have no issue with how Disney runs it's system. But, it seems that people want a bus within 5 mins of their arrival at the bus stop. But, they don't want to pay the increased room rates! And believe me, that's what will happen if the buses have to double...more equipment, more drivers, more fuel. Someone has to pay for that. I would much rather decide that I don't mind waiting up to 20 mins for a bus vs renting a car and having immediate access. If speed is going to be important to me, I'll rent that car.
But, you're absolutely right...we all need to be polite and friendly. I have had some of the most wonderful interactions with other guests when using the buses!!!

And I have seen them separated by the bus driver and in ride lines. I have gotten on rides before another party with a scooter because we only had 4 people, and she was waiting for the rest of her party to get to the front of the line (she had 8 people and two of them were told they had to go through the regular line the rest of the way instead of with her.) Enforcement isn't standard, and it should be, but that is no excuse for the abuse that people who aren't breaking the rules from people who think that they are better, more important, have more feelings, etc than people who have mobility issues. I would LOVE to be able to wait in line. I was thrilled when Haunted Mansion mainstreamed the line and I could play too. I would LOVE to be able to run with my daughter. I would be ecstatic to be able to climb the Swiss family treehouse or do Tom Sawyer's island. I would trade you my "advantages" any day.

I am concerned about our next trip. There will be 7 of us, so I expect that my daughter and son in law, or my best friends will be separated from me on the bus and in ride lines, something able bodied groups don't have to worry about. I will probably have to keep my friends with me, because they have never been to disney, and lose time with my daughter and son in law. Since I only see them once or twice a year, I guess shouldn't regret the time I won't get to spend with them. We will separate, that is the rules, but that doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.

I, also, wish you could run with your daughter, and hike up Swiss Family Robinson's Treehouse! I truly do. But, sometimes life just plain sucks. But you have to understand that equal is equal...not better. So, surely you can understand the feelings of other guests that have been waiting for 20+ mins, in the heat, for a bus, when an ECV comes rolling up just as the bus arrives....and that back door opens and you hop on along with your large family group. So now...those that have been waiting could possibly have another wait because so many seats were taken up by your group. And understand, I use the 'you,your' very generally...not you specifically. If I see someone on an ECV roll up, with a group, I am thrilled when they follow Disney's recommendation of having only 6 of their group board. But, it doesn't happen often...and that's my issue. All things being equal, I suppose only the person using the ECV is 'technically' entitled to use the 'first one to board'...everyone else in the party is able. BUT....that hardly seems fair either.

I was at WDW just over a month ago and used an ECV rented from an offsite vendor. Luckily, we're only a family of 3.

I understand and agree with the loading/unloading rules. However, personally, I hated the thought of passing up a long line of hot and tired people. It just didn't feel fair to me.

So this is what I did. If there was an existing line at the bus stop more than 15-20 people, I would hang back and not pull up to the loading area. I gave my family the choice of hanging back with me or getting in line for the bus and going on without me. Most times they hung back with me, but a few times at the end of a long day, they headed back to room without me.

I'm not saying my way is the right way. For me, it just felt like the fair thing to do.

That was incredibly nice of you. I have to wonder if those guests waiting in the line realized exactly how nice it was.

Actually, that is exactly what was said--the person in the the ECV should load on the bus with only one family member if they need the help, and everyone else should wait in the line, including children as long as there is an adult that isn't using an ECV to wait with them.

Yep, it was me that said it! And as I said before equal means equal, not better. The person with the health issue gets to board the bus early, those not challenged get to be in the line with other non-challenged people. BUT...that is never going to happen. And when I said it, it was because of all the abuse of the system I've seen. Believe me, there are plenty of people that abuse the system. I have overheard many, many guests saying as they were seated on the bus with someone using an ECV..'Wow, that really works. We're going to have to get an ECV every time...it's worth the money!' Or some variation of that statement. And that makes it very hard for those that truly need the ECV, and early boarding. Other people hear this stuff and it really angers them.....they are playing by the rules, while others are not. So those who are entitled to ECV use, and all that goes with it, are tarred and feathered with that same brush. And I'm sorry about that. But you have to understand where some of our feelings come from. We completely understand where you are coming from....please try to understand us.

The ECVs are hard to maneuver in the counter service areas--the guy definitely should have had a family member guiding him through so he didn't hit your daughter's chair--they could have easily asked you to let them through. If he did hit, he should have apologized. Thankfully, the only people I have hit have been my husband and daughter because they both step right in front of me thinking they are going to help!

With the reaction you got, I have to wonder how many of the ECV hate club the family had run into that day to overreact that way. I'm sorry it happened to you when you weren't doing or saying anything to them.

And again, as I said either in this thread, or another one like it, I have spent the evening in Epcot with a good friend who routinely uses an ECV...she is very expert. But I was astounded to see how invisible we got. It was truly eye opening. I now really try to give those on an ECV the benefit of the doubt.
That kind of thing should never happen. Yes, accidents happen, but if someone runs into another person, a heartfelt apology would be nice. And that goes for stroller people as well...or just someone walking along, not watching where they are going.

 

[practicallyperfect77]

Will you have a van equipped to accommodate one? With a ramp and large enough back area to park it?

If not, they usually fold and someone will need to lift it into the back of a van/suv. Easier to life if you take the batteries out. Those suckers are heavy.

No clue about it being equipped...I doubt it...will be a rental. I am quite strong and am sure I can fold and lift it once the battery is out. I just can't walk or stand for long periods. I'm praying for a miracle....I mean it just randomly started bothering me so maybe it will randomly STOP but also want to have a plan if it doesn't. Figured we would drive to parks except for MK.

 

[AmyB2006]

Yep, it was me that said it! And as I said before equal means equal, not better. The person with the health issue gets to board the bus early, those not challenged get to be in the line with other non-challenged people. BUT...that is never going to happen

I'm sorry. I know it sucks standing in line waiting for a bus just to have someone come up with an ECV and "cut" in front of you.

But you honestly think the solution to that problem is to split that person's party up onto two separate buses that could be 20 minutes apart? If that person's party gets in the end of the line, they may not make it on that bus, and now have to wait for another one. I'm sorry, but IMO, that's not really fair either nor is it the best solution.

To be honest, the last time I was at Disney, every bus ride I took (almost) had an ECV on it. I think people need to just accept that it's going to happen. That every bus you get on, will more than likely have at least one ECV on it, and said party.

I've been on both sides of this. My father was in an ECV for a while before his surgery. I hated showing up to a long bus line and then we get on first. I cringed every time. But as mentioned, that is what Disney wants you to do. They don't want you to snake through the line. And I didn't think we should have to be separated from him. He doesn't use the ECV now, but when one rolls up at the last minute, I don't begrudge that person or their party, and understand it's Disney's way.

What I would like to see Disney do, however, is only load ONE ECV or handicapped person onto one bus at a time, if there is a long line. If you load two people on ECVs with their 6 to 10 people with them, that's almost a full bus right there. LOL

 

[lauradis]

Please op learn to drive one.

It drives me crazy to get run over every trip by people on ECV that cant drive them. Most of the negativity from ECV and strollers is from people getting banged by them.

So please im begging, learn to drive one, very well. I'm sick of the evc disney bruises.

 

[olwyngdh]

And this is where Disney is at fault. If they are going to accommodate physically challenged guests, they need to do it consistently. That should never happen to you...it's just plain wrong.

I agree--it should be consistent. It isn't the person on the ECVs fault that it isn't though. My past trips have been just the 4 of us, so separating hasn't been an issue--I am bummed that it is going to be next time though-- especially if I manage to get the early entry ADRs I want. If we get separated, or if I can't get the ECV on the bus, there could be problems. I always leave plenty of time--I am a get there early person--but there is always the worry about not being able to get on the bus even when everyone else can board. I have had it happen due to equipment problems, being ignored by the bus driver, and having a bus pull up beside the one close to the curb--and ECVs are not allowed to board those busses. Also, if there is more than a couple ECVs, a LOT of people waiting in line are going to get on the bus before the people with the ECV. People either forget or ignore that bit. Most people can ride any bus--those with ECVs or wheelchairs are limited to what busses they can ride, and how many of them can ride.

I, also, wish you could run with your daughter, and hike up Swiss Family Robinson's Treehouse! I truly do. But, sometimes life just plain sucks.

Yep, it does. And there isn't much that can be done about it except try to make the best of it.

But you have to understand that equal is equal...not better. So, surely you can understand the feelings of other guests that have been waiting for 20+ mins, in the heat, for a bus, when an ECV comes rolling up just as the bus arrives....and that back door opens and you hop on along with your large family group. So now...those that have been waiting could possibly have another wait because so many seats were taken up by your group. And understand, I use the 'you,your' very generally...not you specifically. If I see someone on an ECV roll up, with a group, I am thrilled when they follow Disney's recommendation of having only 6 of their group board. But, it doesn't happen often...and that's my issue. All things being equal, I suppose only the person using the ECV is 'technically' entitled to use the 'first one to board'...everyone else in the party is able. BUT....that hardly seems fair either.

But what you are asking for is not equal--what you are asking for is to penalize the family with the ECV--which is already being done. When they mainstreamed the bus lines leaving MK, we went through the line to the point where they had to pull the ECV out. Because they were already loading the bus, we had to wait for the next one. Then they pulled up one with a broken ramp, so everyone who had been behind us loaded (now that is 2 busses). The next one pulled up beside that one while it was loading, so there was a third bus of people behind us in line that loaded while we waited. We got on the fourth one, and still got screamed at by some jerk with a stroller about the "special treatment" we were getting.

Yep, it was me that said it! And as I said before equal means equal, not better. The person with the health issue gets to board the bus early, those not challenged get to be in the line with other non-challenged people. BUT...that is never going to happen. And when I said it, it was because of all the abuse of the system I've seen. Believe me, there are plenty of people that abuse the system. I have overheard many, many guests saying as they were seated on the bus with someone using an ECV..'Wow, that really works. We're going to have to get an ECV every time...it's worth the money!' Or some variation of that statement. And that makes it very hard for those that truly need the ECV, and early boarding. Other people hear this stuff and it really angers them.....they are playing by the rules, while others are not. So those who are entitled to ECV use, and all that goes with it, are tarred and feathered with that same brush. And I'm sorry about that. But you have to understand where some of our feelings come from. We completely understand where you are coming from....please try to understand us.

It isn't equal to mandate separation of some families, but not others, and ECV users are already facing that mandate. Until it is said that those with a stroller can only board with one parent, or all groups of over 6 people must separate until all smaller groups have loaded on the bus, it isn't equal. I don't have a problem with the rules, I follow them, but I don't see how it is fair and equal that you can ride the bus with as large of a party as you wish, but I have to pick and choose who is important enough to be with me. In don't think I understand your definition of "better." I understand that you think it is unfair that you have to wait for a bus when others get to board, but the person on the ECV waits too--and often longer. You aren't seeing that, or even acknowledging that it happens.

And again, as I said either in this thread, or another one like it, I have spent the evening in Epcot with a good friend who routinely uses an ECV...she is very expert. But I was astounded to see how invisible we got. It was truly eye opening. I now really try to give those on an ECV the benefit of the doubt.

Did you ride the bus back to the resort with her? Did you stand so others could sit? My family does unless the bus is pretty empty because they figure I am already taking seats with the ECV and the one I have to sit in because I am not allowed to remain on the ECV for safety reasons. If you haven't done the busses and seen the nightmare that it can be, then you don't understand, you are only seeing what you want to see--how you are being treated unfairly because you might have to wait for a second bus. I have done both, and trust me, I would rather stand in line. Talk to your friend that uses an ECV and ask about some of her bus experiences since you aren't willing to believe me.

I am glad you have been able to see how invisible the ECVs are in the park--and that does seem to be more of a Disney thing than an in general thing because I have never had that issue anywhere else--including other parks and huge fairs. I am very aware of my surroundings when I am on the ECV, but that doesn't stop me from being tripped over, sat on (that one was funny--the kid almost died of embarrassment), used as a vaulting horse...and then screamed at and cursed because I am (fill in the blank) and ruining the persons trip. The sad part is, Magic Kingdom seems to be the source of the most abuse.

 

[Disneylover99]

What I would like to see Disney do, however, is only load ONE ECV or handicapped person onto one bus at a time, if there is a long line. If you load two people on ECVs with their 6 to 10 people with them, that's almost a full bus right there. LOL

Except that would be terrible for the last ECV rider if 3 or 4 happened to show up at the same time. I don't begrudge the ECV riders, but I wish the drivers would enforce the rule on friends and families of the ECV rider. From my observations riding the buses, I would never have known that there was a maximum of 6 people allowed to enter the bus with the ECV rider.

 

[AmyB2006]

Except that would be terrible for the last ECV rider if 3 or 4 happened to show up at the same time. I don't begrudge the ECV riders, but I wish the drivers would enforce the rule on friends and families of the ECV rider. From my observations riding the buses, I would never have known that there was a maximum of 6 people allowed to enter the bus with the ECV rider.

You're right it would suck for the ECV rider. But would you rather them load all 3 or 4 plus family members onto one bus if you were standing in line for 20 minutes?

I still say this option is more fair than separating a large party potentially onto 2 separate buses.

If I were still dealing with an ECV and my father, and we were that 3rd or 4th ECV, I would have no problem waiting if it was crowded.

 

[Networth]

What I would like to see Disney do, however, is only load ONE ECV or handicapped person onto one bus at a time, if there is a long line. If you load two people on ECVs with their 6 to 10 people with them, that's almost a full bus right there. LOL

Funny story to maybe lighten up the thread. We always drive to WDW because were FL residents but one particular night we let my parents use the car so they could go to AKL for dinner and my other half said we would take the monorail + bus route to make it to our ADR at Fly Fish. So we arrive at MK from the GF via the monorail. Walk over to the Boardwalk bus line and are the second group in line (we talked to this extremely nice older couple the whole wait, they had gotten engaged at WDW in 72' and we had just gotten engaged the prior night at V&A's). The bus finally pulls up after 25 minuets. An ECV party rolls up again no big deal every can still fit, just as the driver finishes loading the first, a second ECV group comes up, so per policy the driver loads that group. Ok now we finally get to board about 8 people board and next thing I know the driver is stopping the front line because ANOTHER ECV came up this filled the bus. Luckily us and the older couple made it on the bus, but after the 3rd ECV came up the bus was full.

Not saying what's right or wrong just reading your post reminded me of the story that we joke about whenever boarding a bus for an ADR from MK at night now.

 

[olwyngdh]

If I were still dealing with an ECV and my father, and we were that 3rd or 4th ECV, I would have no problem waiting if it was crowded.

If you are the 3rd or 4th ECV, you are probably waiting anyway--even if the bus is empty. A lot of the busses can only take 2 wheelchairs or ECVs. Some can handle 3. None of them, afaik, can take 4.