ECV Accidernt at MK

[BillSears]

That is an excellent way to handle it.. unfortunately, most don't think as you do. They roll up, and get on.... I think that is what is causing the major problem with the remainder of the guests. As some on here have posted... equality is what they want, and that is what you are doing.. Some seem to confuse equality with preferential treatment to front of the line.. and that is not what equality is all about... You understand & you do it the right way.. God Bless you with all you have to endure

So 3 wheelchair users arrive. The first one is holding back and the first bus leaves without any tie down spaces used. The second bus arrives and the first 2 wheelchair users board because this is the bus they would normally get on. The 3rd wheelchair user is stuck waiting for another bus even though he would have gotten on that bus if he walked and waited in line.

Add in broken lifts/ramps, the crowded bus at the second stop where there is no room for a wheelchair user on the second bus that arrives and other problems that can occur and there is a problem. Letting buses leave with empty tie down spots causes more problems than allowing those spots to be used.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

Please tell me, how do I decide...which children to leave behind? Maybe, my DMIL who has dementia or my brother with Down Syndrome? Should we be penalized for not having "the average" family? We're over-the-limit and handicapped... We should split up or just stay home?

in a case like that I wouldn't penalize you as you have more then one person that needs assistance. It's groups of 10 people that show up with only one in a wheelchair just as a bus is pulling up and they all want on and take up the seats in the bus when they don't need to.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

according the a disney driver who is also a disboards member but dose not post in this forum. say if guest give them a hard time with or dose not listen about the six guest they are supposed to call their manager to the scene and have them explain the policy. which holds up the bus for every body so that may be why some drivers will not enforce it.

that makes sense as you don't want to wast the time of the guest to board the bus anymore then you have too.

your right the park ques was not designed for this policy in mind it works better at the resorts because their no que. the only problem their is enforce the number of guest through the back door.

I wonder what people would think if the had special buses and loading zones for guests who need assistance. For example you have one area of the loading are for Pop Century and then another one beside it for Wheelchairs, ECV and guest who need assistance and you have a bus with multiple tie down locations in it just for those stops and they only pick up those guests.

Or another thing they could do to help with the situation talked about earlier with the person having to wait for multiple buses is have some sort of kiosk that you could swipe an room key or park ticket in and tell the buss dispatch system how many people are in your party and if there is a guest who needs assistance loading.

 

[disney david]

The policy is it 6 people (5 plus guest in wheelchair) per guest in wheelchair so if you have two then your allowed 10 guest total. Disney being nice allowing guest through the back door besides the guest in the wheelchair/ecv. It should be just one extra person unless you have kids under 18 with a few other exceptions.

It would be better if disney would get buses that can take guest through the front door then it work better with the policy they have.

 

[Tony NY]

First to GrammyJudy I’m so sorry to read you had an accident on your ECV but thank god you wasn’t too badly hurt .

I'm lost or just slow on this issue I'm reading. So the making wheelchair ecv use the regular que wow! I don’t get it what a headache for everyone…

I don’t for one minuet can’t understand how this justified..

I live in NYC and on buses there are propriety seating for both wheelchair and ECV and they get priority boarding so that it does not inconvenience everyone …Here’s my example you’re on the bus and everyone get on now the bus is standing room & now you have to give up your propriety seats. So now the driver has to hear it from everyone on the bus that he or she has to make room for the disabled passenger. This can now put people in jeopardy of getting ran over and this now can cause an liability issue.Sorry for rambling on.

No the way I see it if it wasn’t broken why fix it than!!

Here’s where the Double Edge Sorrowed comes to pa with play Devil’s Advocate. With that said where is the happy median for everyone.. I Guess that why we have Access A Ride In NYC lol

 

[deegack]

From the perspective of a person who does not need mobility assistance, I don't see the big deal if someone who is in a wheelchair or ecv goes ahead to get on the bus safely. Yes I have been witness to one or two abuses of it but I didn't see this epidemic of ecvs racing in as a bus pulled up with 20 family members behind them to load. Were there times I waited a couple extra minutes, sure. I don't think I ever didn't get on a bus I would have due to an wheelchair/ecv but even if I did the 20 extra minutes out of my day while I'm on vacation is not a big deal.

As for the double loading buses, I don't see how it saves more than a couple minutes to do it that way. So why not just have the bus wait there, not let people on, then when the first bus pulls out the second pulls in. This doesn't solve the issues surrounding more ecv/wheelchairs than tie down spots, but at least its a start.

 

[TLSnell1981]

in a case like that I wouldn't penalize you as you have more then one person that needs assistance.

The policy is it 6 people (5 plus guest in wheelchair) per guest in wheelchair so if you have two then your allowed 10 guest total. Disney being nice allowing guest through the back door besides the guest in the wheelchair/ecv. It should be just one extra person unless you have kids under 18 with a few other exceptions..

Seriously?

 

[SueM in MN]

that makes sense as you don't want to wast the time of the guest to board the bus anymore then you have too.



I wonder what people would think if the had special buses and loading zones for guests who need assistance. For example you have one area of the loading are for Pop Century and then another one beside it for Wheelchairs, ECV and guest who need assistance and you have a bus with multiple tie down locations in it just for those stops and they only pick up those guests.

Or another thing they could do to help with the situation talked about earlier with the person having to wait for multiple buses is have some sort of kiosk that you could swipe an room key or park ticket in and tell the buss dispatch system how many people are in your party and if there is a guest who needs assistance loading.

When the 'special bus' idea has come up on other boards, guests without disabilities have written that would not be fair........to them.
The comments have mostly been of the 'it's not fair that 'they' (people with disabilities) get a special bus while we have to wait in the regular line.'

The kiosk idea is interesting though.

That is an excellent way to handle it.. unfortunately, most don't think as you do. They roll up, and get on.... I think that is what is causing the major problem with the remainder of the guests. As some on here have posted... equality is what they want, and that is what you are doing.. Some seem to confuse equality with preferential treatment to front of the line.. and that is not what equality is all about... You understand & you do it the right way.. God Bless you with all you have to endure

My family seldom runs into waits because we stay at OKW, which tends to have less busy buses and we try very hard to travel at non-peak times.
This is what has been posted in the disABILITIES FAQs thread about buses since about 2009 and is what we do.
If the bus has a lift, only the person with a wheelchair and one other member of your party may go on the lift.
As for the other members of your party, please be considerate of other guests who are waiting for the bus. In general, WDW considers a party of 6 (5 plus the person with a wheelchair/ECV) to be party. If there are few people waiting for the bus when you arrive with a party of that size or smaller, the bus driver may invite you to board at the back door after the wheelchair/ECV is loaded.
If your party is larger or you can see a long line of people waiting for the bus when you pull up, it's considerate have the other members wait in line for the bus or to wait for the next bus.
It will be much easier and less stress for everyone if you can avoid taking the buses at the busiest times (like right at park closing). Taking a leisurely stroll out of the park will usually help you avoid a long line at the bus stop.

If you get to the bus stop and see a long line, here are some considerate ways my family (SueM in MN) have used to handle it:

If you have a small party; keep track of the last person in line when you arrive in the area. Wait off to the side until you can see that party would get onto the next bus (you don't have to wait until they get to the door of the bus), then go to the wheelchair boarding area with your party .
If your party is larger, have the other members of your party get into line. When you can see that they would be able to get onto the next bus, then go to the wheelchair boarding area.

 

[disney david]

Seriously?

Yes that the policy 5 plus guest in wheelchair so if you have two then your allowed 10 and so on. Disney always makes exceptions and the drivers don't always follow the policy to make a guest happy.


Don't worry I don't think they will go down in number of guest allowed through the back door any time soon.

 

[Talking Hands]

I sorry that happened to you and I would not wish that to happen to anyone.

I personally have no problem with someone in Wheelchair or ECV boding a bus ahead of me when it's possible for them to board it. However if a bus is full of people sitting and standing but there are no Wheelchairs/ ECV on board would you want the drive to empty an entire bus of people at one stop so one person can get on, how fair is that to the people on the bus.

Actually I didn't care how they got me on the bus as long as I got on the bus at that point. The relief driver required 3 people to get up and had everyone push forward so I could maneuver the PWC into place. Had I been in an actual ECV and not a PWC it would have been more difficult and some guests might have had to step off the bus until was in place but since my PWC is small and has center turning wheels it was doable without anyone leaving the bus.
It goes both ways since I have, at the All Stars, remained on the bus until the driver had dropped all off at all the resorts and then has doubled back to my resort and gotten me off. I was fine with that as it was easier than trying to get the people to let the driver get to the back of the bus to get me out.
I have been using a PWC for 10 years now and an ECV for 5 before that so I have had many experiences on Disney buses. Largest group I have ever been with on a bus was 4 of us (3 in wheelchairs) and we did have to split up for that. In that case they brought a second bus immediately for me. I went alone the one non-wheelchair person went with the others because of medical issues with one. My first WDW trip was 37 years ago April and first trip using a wheelchair was 20 years ago.

 

[disney david]

Actually I didn't care how they got me on the bus as long as I got on the bus at that point. The relief driver required 3 people to get up and had everyone push forward so I could maneuver the PWC into place. Had I been in an actual ECV and not a PWC it would have been more difficult and some guests might have had to step off the bus until was in place but since my PWC is small and has center turning wheels it was doable without anyone leaving the bus.
It goes both ways since I have, at the All Stars, remained on the bus until the driver had dropped all off at all the resorts and then has doubled back to my resort and gotten me off. I was fine with that as it was easier than trying to get the people to let the driver get to the back of the bus to get me out.
I have been using a PWC for 10 years now and an ECV for 5 before that so I have had many experiences on Disney buses. Largest group I have ever been with on a bus was 4 of us (3 in wheelchairs) and we did have to split up for that. In that case they brought a second bus immediately for me. I went alone the one non-wheelchair person went with the others because of medical issues with one. My first WDW trip was 37 years ago April and first trip using a wheelchair was 20 years ago.

I was wondering how they handle that with resort who have many stops how they safely get the guest in the wheelchair off. I am sure some drivers will make everyone move while other do what your driver did. I guess that one of the down sides for having more then one stop at the same resort. I guess it show how far the drivers will go to make sure you get back to your resort safely well the 99.98 percent do. Thanks

 

[blondietink]

Personally, I wish they would get buses where you could load the wheelchair on from the front of the bus with some type of ramp that comes out automatically. This would make it super easy and fast if the front of the bus was wide enough to turn the wheelchair/ECV. This whole loading at the back of the bus doesn't make much sense to me, especially if you are in a mainstream line. By the time 15 people in front of you get on the bus, the driver has to make those people move so you can get on in the back of the bus.

Our two wheelchairs fold up and my sons can walk slowly on the the bus a short distance which makes it easy, as long as they have a place to sit. But, most of the buses don't have a large enough turn radius in the front to take our wheelchairs on via the front as they don't fold up enough, like a stroller. So, we still have to get on in the back of the bus.

 

[disney david]

Personally, I wish they would get buses where you could load the wheelchair on from the front of the bus with some type of ramp that comes out automatically. This would make it super easy and fast if the front of the bus was wide enough to turn the wheelchair/ECV. This whole loading at the back of the bus doesn't make much sense to me, especially if you are in a mainstream line. By the time 15 people in front of you get on the bus, the driver has to make those people move so you can get on in the back of the bus.

Our two wheelchairs fold up and my sons can walk slowly on the the bus a short distance which makes it easy, as long as they have a place to sit. But, most of the buses don't have a large enough turn radius in the front to take our wheelchairs on via the front as they don't fold up enough, like a stroller. So, we still have to get on in the back of the bus.

The front door of the gillig and nova are wide enough for a wheelchair just don't have a ramp. It would be easier with this policy but their must be logic in nova and gillig bus making. I am here know and I am happy to report that their are much less of the old buses then they use to today I only saw may be seven in use the rest was the new low floor buses.

 

[SueM in MN]

The front door of the gillig and nova are wide enough for a wheelchair just don't have a ramp. It would be easier with this policy but their must be logic in nova and gillig bus making. I am here know and I am happy to report that their are much less of the old buses then they use to today I only saw may be seven in use the rest was the new low floor buses.

I have heard that the reason that WDW chose not to get the buses where wheelchairs load in the front is because they do require a sharper turn to get on.
Since many of the people riding the buses, especially with ECVs, are not that experienced, an extra foot of space can make a big difference.

Before loading a wheelchair or ECV at the back door, the bus driver folds up the back seat, making the parking spot for the wheelchair or ECV. That leaves almost the whole width of the bus for manouvering. Coming in the back door is a fairly sharp/difficult turn for some people to make. Coming in at the front would be a sharper turn.

 

[disney david]

I have heard that the reason that WDW chose not to get the buses where wheelchairs load in the front is because they do require a sharper turn to get on.
Since many of the people riding the buses, especially with ECVs, are not that experienced, an extra foot of space can make a big difference.

Before loading a wheelchair or ECV at the back door, the bus driver folds up the back seat, making the parking spot for the wheelchair or ECV. That leaves almost the whole width of the bus for manouvering. Coming in the back door is a fairly sharp/difficult turn for some people to make. Coming in at the front would be a sharper turn.

Thanks sue that what I thought I knew the door was wide enough but it did look like a tight turn.

I went ti Dhs tonight saw a old lIft bus with two drivers their was guest on the bus plus one with a stroller folding up and a wheelchair. I am not sure when the guest in the wheelchair showed up the bus was not that full and she was at the front of the que waiting till they opened the back door. So one driver. Locked the front door and he knee opened the back and got the bus lowers from the drivers seat well ready to lower the ramp. Didn't see the rest but just like ti share that another driver helped get a guest lapsed safely. I not sure if he was replacing the driver because he was walking on the out side do his inspection. So not sure who in that case has to load the chair new or old well they worked together to mow sure the guest go on safely.

 

[PrincessSuzanne]

When we stayed at Shades of Green last April, the bus we rode on had the ECV area up front and when we were let on first, it was a little easier to manuever, but then the bus driver let everyone else on first one time and there was still the problem of people wanting the seat across from the ECV area and feet in the way.


I did not like having to manuever the ECV through the regular line at MK, my problem was I also had a boot on my foot and it stuck out, but people were climbing under the bars to get ahead of us when I had to slow down to get around, that made me soooo mad.

My Dh is quite outspoken and if he sees we have been over looked or the driver refuses to load me (which happened once), he doesn't mind saying something and he isn't necessarily nice about it.

I think if all the bus drivers were trained properly with one policy it would help, each one does something different and that makes it frustrating and difficult, because you don't know what to expect when they come to load you. And as I said above, one driver had a couple of people on he had picked up at the Marketplace, so he refused to load me and DH, but filled the bus with all the other people that came up after us.

 

[North of Mouse]

We are going to WDW in 2 weeks. My dad will be in an electric wheelchair bc he has ALS I cant imagine him trying to get through the lines like that. He will just be recieving his chair a week before we go so he wont have a lot of experience driving it. I understand that people without a disability dont want HC folks getting special treatments along with their 10 family members, but they should rethink and change this policy ASAP.

This, I think, is one of the biggest problems - not having any experience using ECV's until they get one at Disney or right before - especially for the elderly that may not be able to grasp the concept as easily as the younger. I watched a lady in the large gift shop right inside MK almost take the side of the door off, then continue barreling through knocking down displays while her poor husband was running after her pleading with her to stop, slow down and be more careful - she acted totally oblivious to what she was doing. To me it's up to family that takes them there to make sure they are capable of using them before they run over someone and seriously injure them. It's like having a small electric car - they need experience before driving in such a crowded place as Disney. People can understand both sides of the issue, but it has to work BOTH ways for people to be more understanding. Yes, I've seen lots of vocal people watch when a bus pulls up at the end of a tiring day see an EVC loaded with all 10 family members while the rest have to wait. THAT is what's not fair - I have no problem with the EVC user and 1 other person (or more in case of family with small children) boarding, but I'm talking adult members (if, as a PP mentioned because of the number of EVC's needing to board, they can't make that bus, then they can step back and wait and be first with their party for the next bus.) Tempers tend to flare quicker when it's hot, people are tired at end of day, and have waited and waited for another bus to come. Both sides need to be more understanding. Flame me is you wish, but we are there a lot, and I have seen it both ways, and we all need to get along and be kinder. Needing an EVC doesn't automatically turn a rude person into a nice person. I have seen very nice, kind, considerate people in EVC's - just like differences in general population - and I have seen some "nastys".

 

[watkinsme]

My last trip (Feb 3-12) the first day we went to MK there was one of the CM's directing people in the bus area. we were coming up just as the bus was loading - I told him I'd prefer to get the next bus, he said no problem and then told me to go around past our area and park outside the "line" beside handicap "flag" (we were at POFQ so we were at the far end of the loading area)

The second and third day instead of going through the line I went around like the guy on the first day told me. The first time we were the only people at the stop (till more people came) the second there were 5-6 people there with an ECV at the front of the line.

THe people in line got kinda pissed that I didn't get in line, however when the bus pulled up I told the driver that the other ECV was there first. So he went to load it first. The lady had her scooter on Fast, nearly took out most of her party, the poles, then tried to go up the ramp with 2 wheels on (left)and 2 wheels off (right). The driver is telling her - NO...back up, the guy with her is trying to push her up the ramp (still with only 2 wheels on the ramp) She is yelling at the driver that if she keeps going she will eventually pull the other wheels onto the ramp

Finally the driver gets her to stop (as well as her husband) has them back off the ramp and lines her up so she can get into the bus - the whole party then gets ticked because he tells them to wait till he gets my ECV loaded before they (the rest of the family) can load. So I load and I ask them if they prefer us to sit on the left side (3 seats) so they can sit together. One of them says I really don't care where you sit at (rudely)

So we sat on the right side (me and kids- DH usually stands with stroller). When I am loading I ask the driver if I should have went through the line and he tells me most of us prefer you to pull outside the line - it's much easier for you and us.

Oh and lastly - we get to POFQ and the rude group - they got on the wrong bus all along - POR was loading behind us at MK and they thought it was all one resort - when we left they were arguing over having with the driver take them to POR or to just walk/scoot over.

 

[Fºoºz]

This, I think, is one of the biggest problems - not having any experience using ECV's until they get one at Disney or right before - especially for the elderly that may not be able to grasp the concept as easily as the younger. I watched a lady in the large gift shop right inside MK almost take the side of the door off, then continue barreling through knocking down displays while her poor husband was running after her pleading with her to stop, slow down and be more careful - she acted totally oblivious to what she was doing. To me it's up to family that takes them there to make sure they are capable of using them before they run over someone and seriously injure them. It's like having a small electric car - they need experience before driving in such a crowded place as Disney. People can understand both sides of the issue, but it has to work BOTH ways for people to be more understanding. Yes, I've seen lots of vocal people watch when a bus pulls up at the end of a tiring day see an EVC loaded with all 10 family members while the rest have to wait. THAT is what's not fair - I have no problem with the EVC user and 1 other person (or more in case of family with small children) boarding, but I'm talking adult members (if, as a PP mentioned because of the number of EVC's needing to board, they can't make that bus, then they can step back and wait and be first with their party for the next bus.) Tempers tend to flare quicker when it's hot, people are tired at end of day, and have waited and waited for another bus to come. Both sides need to be more understanding. Flame me is you wish, but we are there a lot, and I have seen it both ways, and we all need to get along and be kinder. Needing an EVC doesn't automatically turn a rude person into a nice person. I have seen very nice, kind, considerate people in EVC's - just like differences in general population - and I have seen some "nastys".

Well put!

YellowXterra, maybe I can help explain a little.

Those scooters are hard to maneuver in a bus when it is empty. You have to maneuver very close to the edge of the regular passenger seats in order to move into your place. It works OK when the seats are empty but you add people, kids, strollers etc and it quickly becomes dangerous. Even worse if the person is a new rider as it is VERY easy for them to accelerate faster and farther than expected. In an empty bus they will hit a seat, a full bus and someone will get hurt! With a full bus even an experienced user can have a problem manuvering into place.

The second issue is that when a chair/ECV waits in the regular line, by the time they get to the front of the line, several ECV's may be there waiting. Remember that the buses just have a couple of spaces for ECV's, so they may have watched a bus leave with empty space and then the next bus may have several ECV users who need to board. With only two spots per bus a ECV user may have to wait for several more buses AFTER they are the first person in line. Even with the old line system I have had to wait many times longer than the regular line due to the limited spots on the bus for me.

The only efficient and safe way to load the buses is to load every ECV place on every bus. Think of the bus as having two sections, and a line for the ECV section and a line for the seating section. You would not be competing for my place and I would not be taking your place.


I THINK THAT EVERY MEMBER ON THIS FORUM SHOULD CONTACT DISNEY expressing their concerns about the new bus system and ask that the reinstate the old system. If needed maybe Disney could address the issue like a transportation GAC and give out a number of "transportation line" passes based on the groups REASONABLE needs?

Anyone know the proper contact person?

Easy to understand ... thank you!

*********************

Y O W Z E R S !!!

I came to this board as will be renting an ECV for my DW ...

... but in trying to read through this post to get some idea of what to expect for my DW in using an ECV etc, instead it has given me a colossal ----

... and taking into account, the OP's (hope you are doing well) and other's experiences re: the buses ...

... and even though we ARE staying on-site ...

I AM GOING TO RENT A for me, my DW and her ECV - 'nuff said.

 

[book_junkie]

Y O W Z E R S !!!

I came to this board as will be renting an ECV for my DW ...

... but in trying to read through this post to get some idea of what to expect for my DW in using an ECV etc, instead it has given me a colossal ----

... and taking into account, the OP's (hope you are doing well) and other's experiences re: the buses ...

... and even though we ARE staying on-site ...

I AM GOING TO RENT A for me, my DW and her ECV - 'nuff said.

Now, I might get shot, but hear me out- first, when are you going? Your ticker looks like mine, so I'm guessing late September/early October? My parents, when they go together, rent ECVs offsite and use the buses, and they've not had any problems, and usually go either when you're going or between Thanksgiving and Christmas when it's considered "slow".

Now, granted, this was before the shift in the bus lines and the queues, but we ran into only one problem the entire trip we took together about 5 years ago, and it wasn't my parents fault, it was the person who decided to walk behind my dad as he was backing the ECV in turtle mode in Ecpot.

They've gone on many solo trips without us, renting ECVs, staying on-site and using the buses, and have had no problems at all, but again, not with the recent changes. The bus drivers and other CMs couldn't be nicer- it was the guests that had the attitudes and issues. They did take what my dad calls "phaser to stun" methods- making sure that they knew how to handle their rented ECVs before the company rep left, keeping them on turtle speed or slightly higher, and always waiting out crowds from shows like Wishes, Fantasmic, FOTLK, etc. before even trying to leave.

The parking can be problematic as well with a specialized car- when my mom and I go, we have her handicapped placard as she can't walk long distances, and at times there are very few spots left in the medical or handicapped parking, and we're NOT looking for one that will let you have the extra back or side space for an ECV. And with MK, you'll still have to board the ferry or the monorail to get to the park- the buses actually get you closer.

However, I fully support not using the buses- I like my AC when I want it, and not standing in long lines!

YMMV!