Ebay Shipping Charges

[DianeV]

DMRick: You obviously do not go to the Packing and Shipping boards on ebay. This kind of stuff is there all day every day.

You may think its ok to lead a buyer to believe they are getting post office insurance but in my opinion if you are sending something via the usps and offer insurance the majority of buyers are going to think post office insurance. I think its wrong to let them think that and then self insure or whatever. It DOES matter that a buyer gets what they pay for or what they are led to believe they are paying for. Your kind of statements are what leads to these kinds of problems.

It IS the buyers money and they have a right to get what they pay for. Many are not secure with the self insurance thing and would rather deal with the post office. If a seller is self insuring they really arent supposed to even call it "insurance' by the way. An assurance or guarantee is the correct wording, then you dont have any confusion.

C.Ann: Many ebay sellers charge more then the post office charges for insurance and still use the post office. They call it their "time" fee. Yes it happens all the time so you cant say that just because someone charges more then $1.30 that it tells the buyer anything.

I will be honest and say that the kinds of things I am reading here are the kinds of things that are ultimately giving ebay a bad name. Someone who feels burned will either not bid again and tell people they know or will become what some sellers call a PITA because they will feel they have to give sellers the third degree in order to make sure they dont get "burned" again.

As I said before...obviously buyers are concerned and some sellers do take advantage and mislead. If it was not happening it wouldnt be all over the bulletin boards on ebay. My point has always been to give as much info as you can about how you are shipping, what kind of insurance etc. so as to avoid any possible problems. The problem comes when sellers dont do that and buyers bid with that "trust" and then find out that they didnt get what they "thought" they were getting.

 

[DMRick]

Someone who feels burned will either not bid again and tell people they know or will become what some sellers call a PITA because they will feel they have to give sellers the third degree in order to make sure they dont get "burned" again.

First of all, let me say, no has been burned. The OP got his item, paid what was shown. If a seller didn't have the shipping shown, you should never assume..and if the buyer then feels the seller is a PITA, perhaps they should look into themselves. The buyers do have responsibility. If the s/h was listed, and you don't like it..then move on. And I can't believe anyone looking at the $3.90 extra charge the OP's seller charged will make people as furious as it seems to make you. You apparently have had horrible experiences on eBay (where I, on the other hand have had no problems either as a seller or a buyer). Perhaps with your bitterness toward sellers, eBay isn't for you : (

Your kind of statements are what leads to these kinds of problems.It IS the buyers money and they have a right to get what they pay for. Many are not secure with the self insurance thing and would rather deal with the post office.

My kind of statements LOL? You're right..the buyer needs to get what they paid for..and I don't see where the OP didn't get just that. It is only your opinion that they must buy insurance from the PO, and no other. You say many would rather deal with the PO? I've never had anyone else tell me that, and if you can show me that eBay "rule", I'll change how I do business. I happen to use a much better way, that instantly gives people a new item, or their money back, rather than making them trudge to the post office (maybe taking time off from work) to fill our forms (and if lost, waiting 30 days to do so) and then hoping to get the item replaced within 60 days. I have no problems with my clients (of course I also pack well and seldom have any problem..once in a while a lost in the mail..but it's taken care of immediately!). Out of over 3000 feedbacks my only two negs were from non payers. I have over 1000 known repeaters. You are right..the buyers have the right to what they pay for. Insurance. They do not have the right to dictate where the person buys it from. Most who have dealt with the PO insurance are very happy to never go that route again. I am all over the ebay boards, and do not see this as any more of a problem than any other thing on ebay. It's just not a big deal from what I read. It's only a big deal if someone is being cheated..such as buying insurance and NOT having it..in the OP's case and in my own case, insurance is being supplied just as promised. I see nothing to lead me any different. Your saying it, doesn't make it so.

I will be honest and say that the kinds of things I am reading here are the kinds of things that are ultimately giving ebay a bad name.

The only honesty here, is that you feel that way. Nothing written here would give ebay a bad name. I can't even begin to figure out why you think that. Not according to my wonderful feedback (and several others who have posted)..several here have seen it, and know of what I'm saying. The people who give ebay a bad name, are people who lie and cheat, or give undeserved feedbacks. Nothing in this thread is giving ebay a bad name..you just don't happen to agree, and you seem to know more than us about ebay rules.

 

[DMRick]

Here is the shipping/packing forum on eBay, so those reading this can read it for themselves. Thereis a thread at the top of the first url talking about a couple of different ways to insure in case anyone is interested.

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/forum.jsp?forum=96

Here is a long trhead on charging handling.

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jsp?forum=96&thread=410159418&modified=1086703171575

 

[robinb]

Originally posted by DMRick
You can't count the insurance as part of the shipping..so it's way below your 100%. Would you count insurance as part of your shipping..would you then tack even more on your $3.00? Wouldn't that sometimes be 100% of what your books might go for?

Sheesh. This isn't about me. But, since you seem so interested, I'll do this one last time. I usually charge 50 cents to $1 in handling and if the person wanted insurance I would charge them the actual amount and buy it. Somehow you got $3 stuck in your head for my handling change. You totally ignored when I said: "On smaller packages like paperbacks, I charge significantly less than $3."

I do not tell them that. Assumptions again. I never tell them (and I haven't told you) how I get my insurance.

Not an assumption. A mistake. I thought you were the poster who bought insurance from another company and emailed the buyer the info on the shipping confirmation. Just out of curiosity, how much do you change for insurance and handling? Inquiring minds and all that.

And it may have been..again, you don't know the circumstances. One man's fair is another man's unfair. If it was a lot over, then I would think it's unfair..but $4.90..well, eBay doesn't think that small amount is unfair, it was in the auction, agreed to and bid on

If Lewis thought the charge was fair he wouldn't have posted here. And I still think it's $6.90 and not just $4.90.

I don't even know how to respond to this..my mouth is hanging open.

Then you missed the smiley. Here it is again: .

But then I repeat myself, and I don't think you read it the first 5 times I wrote it

And I repeat myself. I don't think that all of a seller's eBay expenses should be rolled into the handling fee. Wouldn't it be interesting to go to a B&M store, buy something and then get charged an extra fee for labor, rent, utilities, etc? I think some expenses are fine in a handling fee, but there comes a point where a seller needs to work some of the expenses into her item's selling price.

 

[DMRick]

Just out of curiosity, how much do you change for insurance and handling? Inquiring minds and all that.

Sorry, I thought I mentioned that I average about .50 average. My usual item is quoted for $5.50 s/h. If I'm shipping within zone one, the cost to me is $3.95 and .25 in actual supplies (not couting gas, time ot package..although if I hire a packer this fall, that will go up), and to zone 8 it costs me $5.75..so some people pay more, some less. My spreadsheet tells me my average "take" which is .50. I charge the same price as the PO insurance for insurance. I prefer set prices. So sometimes I get a bonus, and sometimes I don't. I have no problem with someone selling a more difficult to pack item charging more..as long as I"m not surprised..but then I wouldn't be, because if they don't list (as did the OP's seller) the cost, I won't bid.

I mentioned your $3.00, because you did and I have no idea if this is the one item that the OP's seller "makes" 4.90 on or not. If you are counting the insurance, and someone wants to insure your $3.00 item, then I assume you are now charging $4.30 over the "actual" shipping (not counting your insurance costs, of course, if we aren't counting his). My sister always only charges the actual cost, never any fee, so I only have her to compare your "sometimes" price of $3 to.

I also buy on eBay, and only judge the price by the total..the actual cost to me. If I think the seller is gouging, I may go elsewhere. Or I may not..again it depends on the total price.

Wouldn't it be interesting to go to a B&M store, buy something and then get charged an extra fee for labor, rent, utilities, etc?

They have already figured the expenses in the price, since they don't have variables with shipping..by the time you pick up the item in your hand, their lights and gas and delivery (to them) charges are already figured in. You pick the item up right while you shop, and you know the price. No comparison to eBay, or the internet, which is why I often buy from the internet, it's cheaper since the overhead is often less. If not, I suspect our OP would have bought locally. By the way..he DID know what the s/h/insurance was so it was no surprise, so I'm not sure why you even mentioned this. However, if you want to compare apples to apples, I'm often surprised at the shipping for on line stores (like eBay), and I never just blindly pay..I always find out the shipping before I buy. The shipping on a part for my RV, that cost almost $2,000, had another $1600 for shipping. Just like on eBay, I made sure I knew that in advance. If I had assumed it was "reasonable", I sure would have been surprised : )

Hmm...they just don't know what to do with this thread with no debate board..so it just sits here : )

 

[DMRick]

And I repeat myself. I don't think that all of a seller's eBay expenses should be rolled into the handling fee.

Forgot this one. You are welcome to your opinion. I guess the buyers will have to be the ones to decide that.
I'm following eBays rules:

Excessive Shipping/Handling





The seller is responsible for determining the shipping and handling charges on listings, and eBay encourages sellers to clearly describe the item and terms of shipping and delivery in their listings to avoid possible confusion. Before bidding on an auction or buying in a fixed-price listing, bidders/buyers should contact the seller about any questions they might still have that are not directly answered in the item's description.

Sellers may charge reasonable shipping and handling fee to the final price of their item, providing that this fee is disclosed up front in the listing. A shipping and handling fee can cover the seller's reasonable costs for mailing, packaging and handling the item. Shipping and handling fees cannot be listed as a percentage of the final sale price.

When a bid is placed, the bidder is entering into an agreement with the seller to purchase the item, which most often means incurring shipping charges that may also include handling fees.

In the case of disagreements between buyers and sellers regarding shipping charges, eBay encourages the parties to try to work the matter out. Usually these situations can be amicably resolved.

 

[DianeV]

DMRick: You are cracking me up now! I am more a seller on ebay then a buyer and my husband sells more the me! Between us we have triple the amount of feedback you have so I am not some biased bitter buyer...and I have alot of experience both buying AND selling. I know what is right and I dont have to sit and defend every little thing. If I had to be defending every little thing then I would start thinking twice about why that is.

For your information..only a licensed person can sell insurance and if you self insure and call it insurance you are breaking the law..that is why you have to call it an assurance or guarantee to get around that little law. If you use the post office you are not selling the insurance..you are purchasing it on behalf of the buyer..THAT has been gone over left and right on the bulletin boards.

I didnt see you respond to my comment about the total price theory you seem to believe in so strongly...it can and DOES backfire.

 

[DianeV]

I'm not going to post on this anymore..it doesnt really belong here and I can see that its just going to go on and on and not solve anything..a buyer can feel however they want when its their money and their perception of value and its their choice how they deal with it..that is about it in a nutshell

 

[DMRick]

Between us we have triple the amount of feedback you have

Yes, I did check your feedback. I didn't realize it was a contest with our hubbies included as well. He's not involved in this and I didn't post his feedback (I really can't see any reason to..and I have no idea why you posted your hubbies). I won't comment on how much he has under his name, or for myself, how many I have under my buyer name. I only posted how many (with the two non payer negs) I have as a seller, just to comment that no one has ever accused me of doing something wrong. That's all, IMO that counted for this posting.

For your information..only a licensed person can sell insurance and if you self insure and call it insurance you are breaking the law..that is why you have to call it an assurance or guarantee to get around that little law.

Did I post tht I or the OP's seller used self insurance? I don't think so. However, if one person forgot to put insurance on it..you can call it whatever you wish. I call it taking responsibility. Of course Ihave no idea what the original OP did..I'll just assume he insured the package. There are three different places to legally buy insurance. You seem to really like the post office insurance. Most are not fond of it. There is certainly no law that says an ebayer has to use it, and other than you, I've never seen anyone so adament that that is the only way to go.

I didnt see you respond to my comment about the total price theory you seem to believe in so strongly...it can and DOES backfire.

There is nothing to respond to. The total price theory works. You havent' disproven it.

I know what is right and I dont have to sit and defend every little thing. If I had to be defending every little thing then I would start thinking twice about why that is.

I don't have to defend a thing..I just have to follow eBay's rules, and I do..as has the original poster's seller. I posted the area on eBay that you say everyone is "always" talking about how people are so concerned about the insurance not being bought form the post office. My theory is that people on this thread can go look for themselves. I think they'll find that most psople actally DON'T talk about it.
I'm not sure if you are trying to insinuate that I am dishonest. Again, my feedback speaks for itself. I've never once been accused of "slipping" in a excessive or not mentioned handling fee. I'm actually trying to keep this on the original OP's problem, or lack there of. It's really simple. The s/h/insurance cost was listed, Nothing was hidden and the actual auction posts it very clear. No negative feedback should be posted. I'm sorry, but you do sound very bitter to me. As if you think everyone is out to cheat someone, when in actuality, we all are plodding along trying to keep within eBay's rules, and following our morals the best we each see fit.

 

[DianeV]

Well I'm sure not going to leave it at that sorry...I never said the feedback is a contest..YOU are the one who brought up that you have so much feedback and insinuated that I dont know much about ebay and must be a bitter buyer. OH and that perhaps ebay isnt the place for me! hahaha I only posted to correct you in your assumptions.

But hey good for you if you had to go find my account on ebay for whatever reason....Oh and I help my husband with his account and he sells more then me so that is why I brought him up..to show you that I am not some newbie who doesnt know anything.

You DID make statements that sound like you self insure..I wasnt pulling that out of the air

The total price theory DOES stink when you get a seller who only refunds the bid price if something happens AND it DOES stink if you need to file an insurance claim as they need some kind of proof of what you paid. I'm sure it would be great if you only received a penny from an insurance claim.

I'm sorry you can only see what you want to see and not realize that many buyers are getting upset on ebay.

Oh well I'm sure you will post again to get the last word but I have better things to do right now SEE YA

 

[DMRick]

Oh well I'm sure you will post again to get the last word

You said you weren't going to post again, I didn't. Think about that.

You DID make statements that sound like you self insure..I wasnt pulling that out of the air

I never once did. You assumed that. Several times I mentioned other places to get insurance. I wonder if you "assume" when bidding as well. This was another assumption on your part.

I'm sorry you can only see what you want to see and not realize that many buyers are getting upset on ebay.

I posted where you said people are complaining..and people here can go and look. I think they'll be hard pressed to find all these many buyers complaining about people not using the PO insurance.

I never said the feedback is a contest..YOU are the one who brought up that you have so much feedback

I talked about MY feedback, since you mentioned so many people upset about not using the PO insurance. I said according to my feedback, I'm not seeing one person upset. you needed to prove something I guess, so you brought up your husbands. I have no idea why or what. My husbands feedback and my buying (I edited that from selling..I meant buying) numbers have nothing to do with this thread, so I declined to post them.

You dragged out a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with the original OP's note, and tried to turn this thread into whining about cheating sellers. You said the posters here were proving it I pretty much said hogwash. I still feel that way. It's all about the original OP wondering if the seller did something wrong to deserve a neg. According to eBay, no he didn't. He posted the price, the bidder bid, the item arrived per description.

The total price theory DOES stink when you get a seller who only refunds the bid price if something happens AND it DOES stink if you need to file an insurance claim as they need some kind of proof of what you paid. I'm sure it would be great if you only received a penny from an insurance claim.

Are you saying when you use the PO insurance (on something you paid a penny on you would get insurance knowing you would only get a penny??) that you won't get back the shipping? I know you are saying as if it's fact, that if something goes wrong, the seller would only refund a penny. You may do business that way, but I don't. If something is lost in the mail, I refund the entire price..shipping as well.

 

[disneysteve]

Originally posted by DMRick
If something is lost in the mail, I refund the entire price..shipping as well.

Obviously, if I won an auction for a penny, I wouldn't pay for insurance as I would have no loss if the item never arrived or got damaged.

I'm curious, though. When you sellers out there insure your items, do you insure for just the purchase price or do you insure for the total paid including shipping? If the item is lost or damaged, I refund the buyer the total paid so I insure accordingly. What does everyone else do?

 

[Figaro]

I used to buy quite a bit of stuff on eBay, but pretty much stopped when sellers started raising their shipping and handling fees to what I felt was way too high. No one likes to feel like they are being price gouged and that was how I was feeling, so I quit buying stuff on eBay and have talked to many other people in real life and online who have done the same.

In the end, it just was more of a hassle to have to go over every single little shipping/handling/insurance detail with the seller before bidding so that I knew exactly how much the item is going to really cost. And that is why it is so important for sellers to put every single detail of what they are charging as far as shipping, handling and insuring right in the item description. At this point, I wouldn't even bid on anything that didn't state something like: "Actual postage and insurance costs only" and I feel sorry for people who are new to eBay and don't realize that it truly is a "buyer beware" type of situation.

 

[DMRick]

And that is why it is so important for sellers to put every single detail of what they are charging as far as shipping, handling and insuring right in the item description.

I agree with you 100%. And if you don't like the terms, you can move on. That is just what the OP's seller did. The costs are all right in the auction. No one likes surprises. I won't bid if I don't know my final cost.

 

[DMRick]

When you sellers out there insure your items, do you insure for just the purchase price or do you insure for the total paid including shipping?

I put down the entire amount. It's been over a year, since I've had to file a claim, but I remember is as being painless.

I hope any newbies aren't discouraged. eBay isn't all doom and gloom and bad sellers. But with the mega thousands of sellers, you are sure to get a few bad ones. As a buyer, just be sure to read everything. If you are unsure of the shipping, write to the seller. If you don't get a response, move on. A great percentage of sellers are honest. I seldom run into a bad one. If I'm not sure, there is always someone willing to sell me the same thing, that I feel comfortable with. If feedback comforts you, then take a look at it, and if there seem to be a large amount of negs, more than you feel happy with, then again, move on. I really feel the greater majority of sellers are just like you and me..honest.

 

[DianeV]

DMRick, this is NOT directed to you..I think we are done.

I guess if someone wants to bid on a penny auction with $15 shipping and use the total price theory thats fine..however as mentioned you wouldnt be out just a penny, you would be out $15.00 as you would only get a penny back if the seller only refunds the bid price and if insurance was purchased (maybe someone would not understand how it works) then you would only get a penny.

I am not making this stuff up. You can see it all the time on ebay. Look at many of the penny auctions and see that the terms are refunds minus shipping/handling charges. What one seller on here says they would do is NOT what every seller does as far as refunds.

I didnt intend to turn this into an insurance thing. I also happen to agree that many buyers do not realize what things cost to ship and believe that the seller is being fair. When they get their item many times thrown into an envelope for less then 1/2 of what they paid they get upset. They dont know what they are getting for their money until they see it.

My main point is that ebay is very liberal on what you can and cant do. You can pretty much do anything and they dont police it very well. Much is left for individual interpretation and many tend to interpret things in their favor. Just because something is not enforced does not mean its ok. I can go by a police officer and know I am speeding but if he chooses for some reason not to stop me does that mean I didnt speed?

I am not trying to discredit ebay or any sellers as I am one but I am saying that there are many buyers out there who dont come back because they feel ripped off or taken advantage of. Just because someone tells you upfront they are ripping you off doesnt mean its ok. I just get tired of what I consider bad sellers giving ebay a bad name..and I think I have a right to that opinion.

 

[DianeV]

When you file an insurance claim with the post office you need to give them some kind of proof of value..ie. your ebay invoice or a catalog page or an estimate...that wouldnt include shipping costs although I have read in some cases they refund the shipping costs (probably if the item is lost as you didnt get your service)

 

[DMRick]

DMRick, this is NOT directed to you..I think we are done.

As long as you post on this thread, I have a right to post back. You did say you weren't going ot post again, but apparently you don't like it if we don't agree with you...and you have to keep coming back to say it again. Sorry..this person, by eBay's standards did nothing wrong. YOu can turn it and twist it and keep bringing up some other seller (the penny seller, the person not using the PO insruance, people on this thread with lower standards, etc), but nothing changes.

..however as mentioned you wouldnt be out just a penny, you would be out $15.00 as you would only get a penny back if the seller only refunds the bid price and if insurance was purchased (maybe someone would not understand how it works) then you would only get a penny.

A lot of insurances will refund the total..as will a paypal chargeback. I'm sure there are a few that won't. But first..that penny auction has to go bad. It's not like every auction that sells for a penny (and again, that isn't what the OP's complaint was anyway..you are so hung up on this insurance..only now it's not even just that we don't use the PO). That will be reflected in the feedback. So we are right back to the buyer beware. Don't buy blindly, etc. I don't know how many one penny items you have bought that were lost in the mail, and you didn't get reimbursed, but I'm just not seeing a lot of complaints on the boards about this. But that wasn't even close to the OP's complaint anyway.

I didnt intend to turn this into an insurance thing.

Really?

I just get tired of what I consider bad sellers giving ebay a bad name..and I think I have a right to that opinion

I don't think anyone doesn't think there aren't a few bad sellers..but gee whiz..reread the OP's message. This seller did not sell for a penny and then let the item get lost or break on the way, it isn't excessive shipping according to eBay, and the item arrived just as promised. So what's all this penny stuff and insurance (and only buy the PO insurance!) have to do with it, I'm not sure. If you keep having bad things happen to you, you either aren't looking careful enough at the auction, or you are just one unlucky person. Perhaps you shouldn't buy from eBay. Not all of us have had your bad experiences..at least not enough to keep posting about it.
Afraid there are too many bad sellers on eBay? Can't tell what the shipping is? Then move on.

 

[DMRick]

When you file an insurance claim with the post office you need to give them some kind of proof of value..ie. your ebay invoice or a catalog page or an estimate...that wouldnt include shipping costs

Have you ever filed a claim with the Post Office? (not that this has anything to do with the OP..but based on what you just said, I'm curious).

 

[DianeV]

I have filed a claim with the post office however I instructed the money go to the buyer so I have no idea how much they got. I had to submit proof of the value of THE ITEM.

Many discussions get away from the original complaint..that is the nature of discussion. I elaborated on things that were brought up.

All I can say is I dont know what bulletin boards DMRick is reading but I read them consistently and there are ALOT of complaints from buyers. You may think they are not justified however the buyers obviously do and they are the ones spending their money.

I dont know why you keep bringing up this thing about me not using ebay. I like ebay. I make money and I treat customers fairly and honestly. I get many return bidders. I guess I am just more objective about things and try to see both sides instead of just the sellers side.