Ebay Shipping Charges

[DMRick]

Buying on ebay involves a fair amount of trust from both parties. The seller trusts that the winning bidder will pay what is due.

And I do my best to check out the seller..but if he's given a neg for doing nothing "wrong", that skews what I would be looking at.
I go for both..reasonable feedback and prices. I don't buy from the person who charges ridiculous prices either way..but I'm just talking about the OP's seller..and I see nothing wrong with how he did his business. I certainly don't think he deserves a neg (or nuetral) because the insurance didn't say Post Office on it.

The markup on this item was $4.90..do you consider that ridiculous? Or does it just look high, because of the size of the bid..what if the bid had been a lot higher? Then would the $4.90 this guy made over the cost of s/h been ok? What if he pays $5 for each package to be packaged..is it ok, if he tells her that? Or is it never ok to charge what might be your actual cost? Lot goes into trying to second guess without all the facts, eh?

 

[robinb]

I think a lot of the eBay sellers here are defending the camera seller because they can sympathize. No one wants to receive an "unfair" negative when they tried to describe everything as accurately as possible. The difference , IMO, is this is a bad seller.

Even though she listed her exorbitant shipping and handling, there are expect ions on the part of the buyer. Especially one who is new at eBay. A buyer expects to receive the item in the described condition. They expect it to be sent promptly and to arrive in a timely manner. Lastly, they expect that the shipping and handling is fair. All three have to be met to have a satisfactory transaction. Lewis had no clue how heavy the camera was and he assumed that the $14.50 was fair. The "additional dealer mark-up" ... um ... "handling charge" was 100% of the actual cost of shipping and not fair. Not to mention the insurance that was charged but never bought!

I sell on eBay and I also charge a handling fee. That covers the cost of my materials, my online postage account, my label printer, my eBay and Paypal fees. I never charge more than $3 even on the biggest package. I just don't think it's fair. On smaller packages like paperbacks, I charge significantly less than $3.

I think that Lewis should email the seller and complain about the 100% mark-up on shipping and the insurance that was never bought. He may want to take it up with eBay, but as others have said it probably won't do any good. If the seller is not responsive, I would give her a neutral with a note about the 100% mark-up so other buyers will have an idea that this seller makes 25% of her profit from "handling" a free Priority Mail box .

 

[DianeV]

DMRick: Many of the points I brought up were mentioned in this thread. I addressed the total price theory and I addressed the insurance problem. All I say is why ask for problems by listing your auction in such a way that will mislead or confuse buyers? I personally think that the $3.85 listings and the Priority shipping listings and the $1.30 insurance listings (since that is what post office insurance costs) are misleading if you are not in fact doing what you are encouraging buyers to "assume" about your listing.

Why do you think buyers get offended when they pay for what they think is post office insurance? Because many feel more secure dealing with the post office (even though they are a pain). They want to know that they are paying for post office insurance if they are buying insurance unless they are told upfront otherwise.

I am just trying to point out that many of the problems between buyers and sellers could be avoided if there werent sellers out there who mislead whether intentionally or not in their listings.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by robinb
I think a lot of the eBay sellers here are defending the camera seller because they can sympathize. No one wants to receive an "unfair" negative when they tried to describe everything as accurately as possible. The difference , IMO, is this is a bad seller.

Even though she listed her exorbitant shipping and handling, there are expect ions on the part of the buyer. Especially one who is new at eBay. A buyer expects to receive the item in the described condition. They expect it to be sent promptly and to arrive in a timely manner. Lastly, they expect that the shipping and handling is fair. All three have to be met to have a satisfactory transaction. Lewis had no clue how heavy the camera was and he assumed that the $14.50 was fair. The "additional dealer mark-up" ... um ... "handling charge" was 100% of the actual cost of shipping and not fair. Not to mention the insurance that was charged but never bought!

I sell on eBay and I also charge a handling fee. That covers the cost of my materials, my online postage account, my label printer, my eBay and Paypal fees. I never charge more than $3 even on the biggest package. I just don't think it's fair. On smaller packages like paperbacks, I charge significantly less than $3.

I think that Lewis should email the seller and complain about the 100% mark-up on shipping and the insurance that was never bought. He may want to take it up with eBay, but as others have said it probably won't do any good. If the seller is not responsive, I would give her a neutral with a note about the 100% mark-up so other buyers will have an idea that this seller makes 25% of her profit from "handling" a free Priority Mail box .

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Where are you coming up with these figures from? This is what the OP said in the opening thread:

"The seller charged about $12.50 plus a $2.0 mandatory charge for insurance. Actual shipping charges were $7.60 and THE SELLLER DIDN'T BOTHER insuring the item."
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"About" $12.50 plus a $2 mandatory charge for insurance..

First of all, you have no way of knowing if in fact this item was insured or not (we've already covered the options available for insurance that will not necessarily "show" on the package) so we can put the $2 insurance fee out of the equation until such time that the buyer can verify that the seller said, "No - I didn't insure the package.."

Now if you subtract the $7.60 from the "about" $12.50 shipping fee you end up with a difference of $4.90 - not exactly the 100% mark-up that you are speaking of..

I don't know if the $4.90 S&H is reasonable or not because I don't know that sellers particular circumstances, but it was AGREED to and that's all that really matters in this particular transaction..

As for your own $3 handling fee, some might consider that out of line as well.. I've been selling on ebay for a little over a year now and my handling fees have ranged from as little as "zero" to a maximum of $1.25 so I personally would consider yours too high.. But if I bid on your item - knowing FULL WELL what my total shipping was going to be - would it be alright if I gave you a negative even though I received the item in good condition and as far as YOU were concerned you had fulfilled everything you had stated in your auction, just as the seller in this particular transaction did?

 

[DMRick]

Hope I have all my quotes from teh right people:

Robin wrote:

Not to mention the insurance that was charged but never bought!

You would have to be clairvoyant in this case to know that. If I remember right, the SHIPPING was $4.90 over the actual cost of shipping, not 100%. I have no idea how much over the handling it was, since I don't live with the seller and I don't know if he pays someone to pack, or has to travel 25 miles to the PO.

Diane wrote:

Why do you think buyers get offended when they pay for what they think is post office insurance?

I've never in almost 3000 original feedbacks, and 4000 sells had a buyer be offended, and my insurance cost is not shown on my post office label. How many have you personally known that have been offended?

The OP has no way of knowing what the insurance cost or if it was bought..since the item was just as it was suppose to be, so no claim had to be made. I would assume it was other than PO insurance, as many ebayers have now gone this way.

I am just trying to point out that many of the problems between buyers and sellers could be avoided if there weren't sellers out there who mislead whether intentionally or not in their listings.

I'm only responding to the OP, and I don't see where the OP's seller mislead anyone. Personally, it's much better for the OP, if something had happened to his item, if he wasn't going to deal with the PO insurance. You said you read the ebay boards..well I'm sure you know what the buyers and sellers think of them for getting back your money. Got a month or two to wait?

Robin wrote:

I never charge more than $3 even on the biggest package. I just don't think it's fair. On smaller packages like paperbacks, I charge significantly less than $3.

Doesn't matter..you don't know what the OP's seller has to deal with or pay in gas or packaging. I only charge .50 - 1.00 over if I ship ot zone 1 or 2..I'm underpriced if the item ships to zone 8 or 9.. Would that give me the right to announce here that I think you are an unfair seller, because you charge 6 TIMES what I charge, etc? (wow..you make $3 on handling fees shipping out books..Oh my goodness, I wish I got back all those fees, expenses..see what I mean..this guy only "made" $1.90 more than you, and we have no idea if he's also paying for a feedback service, or a Vendio, or gas to go 25 miles?) Nope, because I don't know why you're charging what you are. I'll just continue to bid based on what I will be happy paying.

 

[robinb]

Again, it's all about expectations and communication. DMRick, when your insurance doesn't show up on your package you email the buyer to let them know it's insured another way. It appears that this seller did not. Since they did not, I believe that they "self insured" which is another word for "dealer mark-up". My 100% was $14.50 - 7.60 = $6.90. OK. It's not 100%, but pretty damn close. I can assume that the seller pocketed the extra $2 and you can assume that she bought insurance. Neither one of us knows for sure.

No, I don't charge $3 handling for a book. I never said I did. I change much, much less because I want to take the sale from the people who charge $3.50 to send a paperback media mail. On big orders where I have to take time to scrounge a box the right size, wrap the items carefully, fill it with peanuts and then take it to the PO instead of dropping it in the Big Blue Box I will charge more. Usually $2 and sometimes $3. On my last eBay sales jag (I go in spurts on eBay, but sell on Amazon all the time) I had a large double order where I combined shipping. The items were being sent to zone 1 about 60 miles away from me and the actual shipping was less than the shipping I had determined for only 1 auction. I charged the buyer less for 2 auctions than for one that since that was fair. He was very happy.

Yes, Lewis AGREED to the shipping and handling fee. But the point is that he thought he agreed to was FAIR shipping and handling. This seller took advantage of him by feathering her nest with an excessive handling charge. FWIW, I think the cost of doing business shouldn't be absorbed totally in the S&H. Some of it should come out of the purchase price of the item. It reminds me of people who sell books on Amazon.com for a penny. You know that any money they are making has to be coming from the shipping allowance. Perhaps this seller is selling close to cost but making her profit from inflated S&H. I know that I bought something recently and I refused to buy from 2 sellers who charged $15 to ship something I knew weighed less than 1 pound. I ended up paying more for it in a B&M store, but I didn't encourage gouging.

Bottom line is that I am sure that Lewis and everyone else reading this will be more careful when buying from eBay and ask questions! Never trust a seller .

[edited to fix my math ]

 

[DMRick]

I can assume that the seller pocketed the extra $2 and you can assume that she bought insurance. Neither one of us knows for sure.

You can't count the insurance as part of the shipping..so it's way below your 100%. Would you count insurance as part of your shipping..would you then tack even more on your $3.00? Wouldn't that sometimes be 100% of what your books might go for? Sigh..it just doesn't matter..the item arrived in good shape, and unless it didn't, it really and truly doesn't matter. No complaint unless the insurance didn't cover the item. If the item had gotten lost and was replaced..you can bet it would have been a good thing there was some kind of insurance. If the item had broken or been lost and not been replaced you can bet I'd be on the OP's side for justice.

when your insurance doesn't show up on your package you email the buyer to let them know it's insured another way.

I do not tell them that. Assumptions again. I never tell them (and I haven't told you) how I get my insurance. I just said no one has ever complained, and it doesn't say PO insurance on my packages. PO insurance is a big pain..even if their truck runs over the package, it's time consuming and lengthy to collect.

But the point is that he thought he agreed to was FAIR shipping and handling.

And it may have been..again, you don't know the circumstances. One man's fair is another man's unfair. If it was a lot over, then I would think it's unfair..but $4.90..well, eBay doesn't think that small amount is unfair, it was in the auction, agreed to and bid on

Never trust a seller

I don't even know how to respond to this..my mouth is hanging open.

I never charge more than $3 even on the biggest package. I just don't think it's fair. On smaller packages like paperbacks, I charge significantly less than $3.

I think that is way too much to charge over the actual shipping. My sister sells big time on Amazon and eBay and never would charge this amount. But if I agreed to it, I would pay it. Oh..you have to scrounge boxes? I know that now. I have no idea what this seller does. I have no idea if that $1.90 more than you sometimes charge is his sometimes extra fee. I have no idea if you live next door to the PO and he lives 25 miles away. I have no idea if he cleared $1.90 on s/h with his expenses, but didn't even make what he paid for the item. I have no idea if he listed a flat fee to cover shipping to NY and CA. But then I repeat myself, and I don't think you read it the first 5 times I wrote it

 

[jgates]

Hmmmm....I think we reactivated the debate board........

I didn't go back and reread the thread, but is it possible they calculated their postage at the largest zone variance?

If it were a 5 pound item (I doubt it was that high or this wouldn't be an issue), the difference between zone 1 and zone 8 is $6.30.

I always calculate for zone 8 and base my shipping on that, HOWEVER, if ends up being only 1 or 2 zones from me, I refund at least a portion of the difference. I have had 3 people that I offered a refund to actually tell me to keep it because they were so happy and still felt it was worth it.

This was just a thought on my part. What irritates me more than ANY of this, as it seems it was all disclosed up front was an auction where the seller stated 'don't overpay - you are paying actual shipping fees' or something like that. Then when you use the calculator (she displayed her zip code in the auction & the weight), she was upcharging about $6. And it was stating nothing about any handling feels - only actual shipping fees.

 

[DMRick]

This was just a thought on my part. What irritates me more than ANY of this, as it seems it was all disclosed up front was an auction where the seller stated 'don't overpay - you are paying actual shipping fees' or something like that. Then when you use the calculator (she displayed her zip code in the auction & the weight), she was upcharging about $6. And it was stating nothing about any handling feels - only actual shipping fees.

Now I have to go back and reread this..what page was this posted on? Or do you mean a different auction? If that is OP's auction, that is different. If you have the actual auction, you know a lot more than I did. That would change things some..although they still knew what the cost would be...but if OP was told actual shipping fees, and they weren't, that would be different. Then I would not be on the seller's side.

 

[disneychrista]

Not sure if this has been brought up (I have read / skimmed to bottom of page 3 though) but if the seller was charging a "flat fee" for shipping, not calculated shipping. It is VERY possible that said seller was using a zone 8 calculation. If you happen to be within the same zone or a zone 1 or 2 then that could be why there is a difference.

Personally IMO, if you bid knowing what the charges woudl be and you recieved the item as described, I do not see the problem. There are many reason why the s/h is significantly higher then the postage. If you bid knowing what the s/h would be you have absolutely no beef.

As for the insurance issue, just today I took 5 packages to the PO. The clerk I went went so fast that I didnt even have time to think, so I forgot that one package requested insurance. I didn't realize it until we got back to the car (too late to go back). So now I know I am responsible if anything is to happen to that package in route. If nothing great, if it does then now I must refund the buyer their total purchase price, including shipping and handling. I do not see a reason to refund the buyer this money because now I am at risk.

And by the way it is shipping and HANDLING not just postage. And yes, as a seller I do charge a handling fee, my time is not free.

 

[floridagirrl2]

Originally posted by Lewisc
1) Charging me for insurance and failing to purchase same. There is no such thing as charging a premium for self-insurance. Self-insurance means you're absorbing the risk.

2) Unreasonable mark-up of shipping costs. Since the weight of the item wasn't disclosed it wasn't apparant that the seller was significantly marking up the shipping costs.

Disneysteve did a good job summarizing my issues.

I was curious what E-Bay sellers here do. I'll probably e-mail the seller and take it from there.

Do the sellers pay an E-Bay commission on the shipping charges? Is this a scheme to reduce E-Bay charges?

I do think the shipping/handling charges were excessive, but since they were stated in the auction, I don't think you should EXPECT a refund. You bid on the item knowing what the S/H fees were.

I don't think the seller is doing anything that's against Ebay rules--there are much more egregious examples of overcharging for shipping on Ebay, and Ebay will do NOTHING about it, I promise.

Ebay says you can't charge extra S/H for Paypal fees or Ebay fees but that's completely unenforceable, because the seller IS allowed to charge handling charges to cover other overhead costs.

All that said, there is nothing stopping you from leaving a negative feedback if you think the seller deserves it due to excessive S/H fees. Just be aware the seller can respond with negative feedback for you, too.

I do require insurance on fragile items that I sell on Ebay, and I always include the cost of insurance in my S/H fees and state this in my auction. I purchase insurance through the post office, but I don't think there is anything wrong with self-insuring--if the seller has multiple pieces of the item, they can just send another item if the first one breaks--faster and easier than dealing with the post office.

I generally charge a flat rate for S/H and state this in the auction. I sell primarily out-of-print books and ephemera, and my flat rate usually includes 50 cents to $2.00 handling fee for overhead (bubble envelopes,bubble wrap, time spent packing, time spent at the post office, etc.). It's much easier to charge a flat rate than to try to calculate shipping to all the different zones.

I regularly buy on Ebay, as well. I just bought a pair of shoes that are being shipped via Priority Mail for $8.75 (actual cost of postage is $5.75). It's worth paying the handling charges to me because the paricular shoe style is no longer being manufactured, so I can't find them in stores. You have to decide for yourself what is worth the shipping/handling cost to purchase on Ebay.

 

[floridagirrl2]

Originally posted by robinb
It reminds me of people who sell books on Amazon.com for a penny. You know that any money they are making has to be coming from the shipping allowance. ]

Gee, the shipping allowance on Amazon is only $2.26 for Media Mail, so I don't think penny sellers are making any significant amount of money! I don't think anybody is feathering their nest with $2.26.

 

[tmli]

Being new to ebay as a seller and a buyer I have been watching this thread with interest.

This week I made my first mistake as a buyer...I assumed what shipping would be without checking with seller first. It was double what I expected making the total I paid for the item too high. No matter what the shipping actually costs when it gets here, I didn't ask, my problem.

As a seller I discovered I get more bids when I list shipping as a flat charge then when I ask them to contact me. Shipping can range by as much as $20 from one end of Canada to the other and even more going into the U.S. Therefore I have taken a median number to charge as shipping. I feel it will balance out.

Just because the seller charged more on this package than actual doesn't mean they pocketed the difference as profit. My shipping "log" is running at just about a $0 balance meaning my method is not bringing me any profits, as it shouldn't. That being said I also offer refunds to those who pay significantly less than the quoted shipping.

Just a note....here in Canada I have noticed my postage label does not include the cost of the insurance (in fact there is nothing on the package to say it is insured-I have the receipt with decalred value). the fuel surcharge or the tax. Those things combined can make up to a $4 difference.

 

[mamalle]

for the insurance issue, just today I took 5 packages to the PO. The clerk I went went so fast that I didnt even have time to think, so I forgot that one package requested insurance. I didn't realize it until we got back to the car (too late to go back). So now I know I am responsible if anything is to happen to that package in route. If nothing great, if it does then now I must refund the buyer their total purchase price, including shipping and handling. I do not see a reason to refund the buyer this money because now I am at risk.

so does that mean you will not refund their money that they paid for insurance? I think if I paid for it and the seller forgot to purchase it- when I get the item- I should be refunded the money- it was not mandatory but a option that the buyer wanted and paid for but did not get.


I make sure I read everything before I bid because I have been shocked to find out what Im paying for shipping if I dont. I recently won a auction that stated- priority mail. okay I won and paid but the item came first class. hum... so the seller pocketed the extra money I sent for postgage. doesnt seem right. when I sell I try and make it as close to the actual shipping as I can. I usually buy my envelopes in bulk or at the dollar store. our PO has a 24 hour walk up postage center so it doesnt take much of my time at all- so I hate to charge extra fees.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by mamalle
I recently won a auction that stated- priority mail. okay I won and paid but the item came first class. hum... so the seller pocketed the extra money I sent for postgage. doesnt seem right.

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In this case you have every right to be upset with the seller.. Priority Mail was stated and then NOT used as stated in the auction..

The case in question here is entirely different. The terms were stated in the auction - they were agreed to by the buyer - and now the buyer wants to leave the seller a negative for what? Terms were agreed to - terms were met - item arrived safely and in described condition.. Based on the description of this transaction by the OP, I still don't see where a negative is warranted based only on a whole bunch of "assumptions"..

 

[DianeV]

Because it goes back to the buyers perception of value. They want to see that they got something for what they paid. Most buyers dont squawk over small handling fees but when they see a sizeable difference they get upset. They probably buy on ebay to get away from the high s/h of etailers and have an expectation to be treated fairly.

Most buyers dont know what it will actually cost to send something and trust the seller is being honest. What happens is some sellers dont make enough on their items so they make up for it in the handling fees. That turns off buyers. Instead what happens is they lose a possible repeat buyer.

I would rather treat my customers fairly and have them come back then make a few extra bucks off them and have them not bid again.

As for the insurance issue. If you are not using the post office you really should be saying so. The majority of buyers equate insurance with the post office especially if you charge the same amount. If I forget to insure someones package I refund. That is my fault and I didnt get what they paid for. To keep the money is just wrong in my opinion.

Obviously there are many opinions on this subject and it gets hashed out over and over again on ebay. If it wasnt a problem it wouldnt be brought up all the time.

 

[C.Ann]

If this auction was recent, I believe I may have tracked it down in a search on eBay.. If in fact I have found the correct one, there was NOTHING "misleading" in that auction whatsoever.. If the OP would like to share a link, many of the questions and assumptions that have been made here could be cleared up quite quickly..

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by DianeV

As for the insurance issue. If you are not using the post office you really should be saying so. The majority of buyers equate insurance with the post office especially if you charge the same amount. If I forget to insure someones package I refund. That is my fault and I didnt get what they paid for. To keep the money is just wrong in my opinion.

------------------------------------------------

Also forgot to mention that the cost of Postal Insurance for an item valued up to $50 is $1.30 - not $2 - so that right there should have been an indication to the buyer that the seller was using some type of insurance other than the USPS insurance..

 

[mamalle]

Im not disagreeing with that at all- if its listed in the terms of the auction- I dont believe you can leave that person negative feedback. as the buyer you just have to make sure you read all lines of the auction and if you decide to bid- well than you are agreeing to their terms. honestly I will not bid on anything unless I know the shipping/ handling upfront.

 

[DMRick]

I think if I paid for it and the seller forgot to purchase it- when I get the item- I should be refunded the money-

If the seller is now taking over the responsibility to replace the package if it is lost, why would they return any money? It's now being self insured.

As for the insurance issue. If you are not using the post office you really should be saying so.

Again..why? How does that play into it? Is there some eBay rule that even says I must use the PO for any part of the sale? What's the fixation on the PO? Many many people use UPS or Fed ex..and never mention it in the auction. As long as the item will be replaced or paid for if something goes wrong, what difference would it make how that happens? Why do you think that is something that I have to put in the auction?

I recently won a auction that stated- priority mail. okay I won and paid but the item came first class.

Apples and oranges. You've had bad experiences but that doesn't play into the OP's experience. Nothing dishonest was done here. You, on the other hand, have a legitimate complaint. They didn't ship as stated.

Most buyers dont know what it will actually cost to send something and trust the seller is being honest. I would rather treat my customers fairly and have them come back then make a few extra bucks off them and have them not bid again.

Buyers should make it their business to know what the total cost is..if they can't live with that...move on. I'm not obligated to break down my handling charge. I charge extra for my handling..and I have a very large repeat business. I actually run a business, which SCORE helped me set up. A handling fee is a very common thing. While I don't have as large a handling fee as the OP ran into, the auction gave the amount and as far as I know, the OP paid what he was comfortable with. If he wasn't, he prob would not have bid at all.

If I forget to insure someones package I refund.

And that is your choice..I hope you also replace the item if lost or broken, no matter how expensive it is..I'd rather have you keep the insurance money and "fix" any problems, than refund. If you do both, good for you..I'd rather the person that paid for the insurance not have to worry at all, and if I was to tell them I "forgot" to insure, they would prob be pretty upset until the item arrived safely.

I spend a fair amount of time on several eBay boards..private as well as eBay's..and I've never seen a big deal about this...not any more than any other eBay "problem". Which board is talking about this all time?

As far as the original OP's post..no reason for a negative here by any of eBays "rules".