Earn BIG money with your DVC points (and MY cash nights)

[CRSNDSNY]

That restriction would not be within the rules. DVC can do a special season preference list or lottery which gives them more flexibility for restrictions.

Didn't they do a lottery system with the Millenium ring-in?

 

[DisneyDVClover]

We have never had any issues getting a room at 7 months even at BWV and VWL we even got our request at BWV at 3 weeks out.

 

[Dean]

Didn't they do a lottery system with the Millenium ring-in?

Yes and it was a flop from what I could see. The reservations were easily available later and those that did reserve with the idea of renting for big bucks weren't able to do so. This is the proper constraint to the rental system. Anyone who buys DVC points just to rent better do so for a couple of years then sell the membership as they will lose big time if they hold onto it for a while.

As I've said before, anyone that does DVC rentals as a "business" is nuts. There is no real money to be made and the risks are too great. If that were my goal, I'd want a return similar to any risky venture, one to exceed 10% PLUS a return of my principle fairly quickly. And since there is no definition of "professional renter", every person has their own. To one person it's only OK when you'd lose the points and no one else wants a reservation and only for the maint fees. For others, me included, anyone within the points limits of ownership specified (2000/5000) by DVC is OK. And all phases in between.

Plus the fact remains that there would be no easy or likely reasonable way to prevent "commercial" rentals at least as many see it without interfering with the right to rent.

 

[wychwood]

I'm fairly new to the DISboards and I do not own points however I am actively looking to rent points for a family vacation in Oct/Nov 2005. I think it is great that owners can rent their unused/unwanted points. It gives people such as myself the opportunity to provide a Disney vacation for my family and even be able to stay on-site longer than I otherwise would. This actually IMHO is a boon to Disney as that is extra time we will all be eating at Disney restaurants and spending money within the park. As I have never before rented points, I have been frustrated in renting the points I require (in one instance the renter mistook when her points had to be used by and in the second instance the individual wanted what I considered to be a premium price per point. The fact that payment could be made by VISA suggested to me that possibly this individual was using the system as a business....anyway, I am anxious to vacation at a DVC property as I think, depending on our experience, we will consider becoming DVC members. Personally, should we take the plunge, I would only rent points to help pay for the annual dues during the years we did not vacation at disney.

I have also noticed that periodically Expedia offers trips to DVC resorts. How does this happen?? If this is a dumb question, please excuse my ignorance. I'm new to this.

 

[Dean]

I'm fairly new to the DISboards and I do not own points however I am actively looking to rent points for a family vacation in Oct/Nov 2005. I think it is great that owners can rent their unused/unwanted points. It gives people such as myself the opportunity to provide a Disney vacation for my family and even be able to stay on-site longer than I otherwise would. This actually IMHO is a boon to Disney as that is extra time we will all be eating at Disney restaurants and spending money within the park. As I have never before rented points, I have been frustrated in renting the points I require (in one instance the renter mistook when her points had to be used by and in the second instance the individual wanted what I considered to be a premium price per point. The fact that payment could be made by VISA suggested to me that possibly this individual was using the system as a business....anyway, I am anxious to vacation at a DVC property as I think, depending on our experience, we will consider becoming DVC members. Personally, should we take the plunge, I would only rent points to help pay for the annual dues during the years we did not vacation at disney.

I have also noticed that periodically Expedia offers trips to DVC resorts. How does this happen?? If this is a dumb question, please excuse my ignorance. I'm new to this.

Anyone who has a paypal account or a regular business that uses a credit card system could accept a CC as payment. Any outside rental (expedia, etc) would be renting out CRO inventory.

 

[Peterd]

Quadman,
I can understand how you feel. We've been members since 96. We used to drive down from NY, and go wow we're making great time, call up from Georgia, and get lucky with a room a day early. There is no way we could get that lucky again. We only fly now, but early check-ins still happen, but are rare unless it's Okw.
We used to be able to reserve anytime out. A few years ago, things changed. We would wait til about 6 months out to decide to get rooms, and be shut out. We were shut out because we didn't know we were going at 11 months out. This used to tick us off that members would rent out premier times to non-members shutting us out. We would post and post, saying how wrong it was. We then realized that the resv. on a short notice was a thing of a past, and had to start reserving earlier.
Now we've learned. We have a lot of points. We usually get a bunch of rooms in Nov, and rooms in Feb and April. We've rented from members on the site for these stays, thanks Dean etc... We have also rented out to friends.
We've decided we won't be shut out again. We now reserve our rooms for President's week and the spring vacation at 11 months out in case we DO want to go. We'll borrow points, so If we decide not to go to Disney, we'll sell our resv and use the money for a cruise or trip out west.
We're not making a habit or living out of it. We are just keeping our options open. We most likely will go to each resv. we make, but if not we'll use the money for another destination. I don't know about you, but it seems to us, the rate of exchange for other resorts outside of Disney is not that great.
An example, we wanted to use points for a Disney cruise. They wanted about 800 points for our party. I rented out a two bedroom in Aug to friends for 170 points, and it almost paid for our whole cruise with Royal Carribean.
So we're not scalpers or travel agents, just keeping our options open.
Oh, and $10 per point is a joke, I would rather give my points away, but that's another thread.

 

[RobDoc]

Didn't they do a lottery system with the Millenium ring-in?

There was a Special Seasons Priority List up until the millenium and the DVC resorts were never filled using that process and is was discontinued afterwards. It has not been used since 1999, but could be resurrected if the need is there. It allowed members to reserve that week (Dec 24-31) 14 months in advance depending on their place on the list.

Since the list never filled the resorts, it didn't make much sense to continue the program. That week still is usually available well after 11 months- sometimes within 7 months.

 

[Doctor P]

While Doc is almost always correct, and there has not been a Special Seasons Preference list for several years, the list was not discontinued until at least 2001 because we used the list for our Christmas 2001 trip and were able to make the reservation 13-14 months ahead as a result. They discontinued the list for the 2002 holiday season (after letting us put our names on the list early on, they then suspended use of the list as I recall). But, they have definitely not used it for several years.

 

[RobDoc]

The list may have covered reservations for the 2001 Christmas week, but I believe members had to be on the list by the end of 1999 in order to reserve the 2001 week 14 months ahead.


The point is that the resorts were never filled using the list and it was therefore discontinued several years ago.

 

[DVCajun]

... the general sentiment seems to be that you can't stop it.

It seems to me that the general sentiment is that we're glad we have the option to rent our points when we want to.

I'd also like to add that merely observing patterns of renting points isn't always enough to determine whether someone is a 'professional renter.' We adopted our first child three and a half years ago and our second two months ago and have a couple more to go before we're done! The point is that funds have BEEN tight for over three years and will continue to BE tight for a few more. We have been renting our points either here or on ebay for that length of time. I wish we could afford to go to Disney World three times a year like we have in the past, but our current circumstances don't allow it. Am I going to sell our contract because we're broke right now? No bleeping way!!!! The point is, if you've been stalking ME for the past three years you'd likely lable me a "professional renter." You'd be wrong.

I'd also like to reiterate what others have already said-- we each have the same window of opportunity to reserve time. Whether someone reserves multiple weeks at one time is really a moot point-- if you wait until 7 months out to reserve a Christmas week vacation you're not going to get it! To get those prime times you have to call at the 11 month mark, period.

So, here's an idea-- pick up the phone and beat them (and me) to the reservation!

 

[CaptainMidnight]

The bottom line is that the language in the agreements about not using DVC in a for-profit venture is BARELY enforcable. They could probably use that to hammer anyone who tried to run an actual business from within a DVC room.

Other than that, any attempts to break up current rental activities or modify the rules to dissuade point rental would result in legal action. DVC would lose. End of story.

Here's the thing. That's your opinion, not factual statements. Others on this board may well share your opinion, as they have every right to. But, the laywer I had review the documentation said it was most certainly enforcable. If you think it is "end of story" good for you. That doesn't make it a factual statement or true.

Secondly, anyone who thinks that Disney would automatically loose a case they chose to pursue does not have much court and legal preceeding experience. That statement is even more unrealistic in my opinion. Another poster described it as the 800 pound guerilla aurgument, regardless it applies.

However, I give DVC the license to decide when it is appropriate to enforce and pursue those they determine are violating the contract. I'm OK with DVC allowing for-profit-rental practices using prime holiday periods flexibility, even though I do not agree with for-profit-rental using prime holiday periods. I'm grateful that they allow me flexibility by allowing 5 in a onebedroom. Certainly that needs to be extended to other areas as well. I pay DVC management and with board oversight to make those determinations.

I don't have to like it, but it is up to the Board and Management. It ain't "End of Story....DVC would loose."

 

[Deb & Bill]

... I'm grateful that they allow me flexibility by allowing 5 in a onebedroom...

Anyone want to play the Captain Midnight game to see how many times and how many ways he can work the "5 in a one bedroom" issue into a message?

 

[bongo59]

well ill go the other way............i love the fact that we can rent........i owned 1500 points and needed 500 more to get acruise done for the whole family and i had no available points left.........so it was cash or rent the 500 points..........because i needed so many and the rack rates are so high renting saved me thousands. so i used the rental method. But i just bought 500 more today at SSR so i guess i should jump to the other side of the fence on this arguement but i wont. I think the flexibility is a huge reason i am in total love with DVC concept. So count me as a DVC er who says let them rent for profit. I seriously doubt that this makes up a majority of us on this forum or in the DVC memebership. Just my humble opinions here guys.

 

[senecabeach]

My DVC is very precious to me.
I follow the rules of the 11-7 month window to make ressies and have had NO problem getting what I wanted. Thats all thats important...right?

Let me go on the record to say I have never rented points from anyone nor have I ever rented points to anyone. Nor have I rented my 4 weeks of RCI timeshares to anyone. Now having said that:

Certainly if I ever wanted to rent my RCI, I would reserve a prime week somewhere..and..rent it for a meager profit. If you could..you would too and no one in my RCI community would flame me! What makes DVC any different?

Supply & demand is free enterprise, wether on these boards or not, people will pay to go. I don't begrudge those renters/sellers.

I just don't beleive its anyones business...

 

[ClarabelleCow]

Well I don't have a problem with any member renting out their points. What I have a problem with is members renting out "RESERVATIONS"! That is what I think Quadman was referring to in this thread.

Also - you can get the DVC discount several months out, I called for HH in October for an August stay, and could get a discount.

 

[Dean]

Well I don't have a problem with any member renting out their points. What I have a problem with is members renting out "RESERVATIONS"! That is what I think Quadman was referring to in this thread.

Also - you can get the DVC discount several months out, I called for HH in October for an August stay, and could get a discount.

I don't see the difference. If one follows the rules, it is what is is. While I'd prefer not to, if one wants to get Xmas for 5 days for multiple units every year and rent them out, so be it.

 

[Quadman]

Here is one of the manipulative approaches that some renters are employing. I started this thread because I think that this sort of tactic and others used by some individuals, all toward the same end (professional renting for maximum profit) is improper.

Some posters have said….. We all have points, and we all have the right to rent out….. Is this what you had in mind when you said that??

With a 320 Point contract (I know 320 is relatively small, almost microscopically small if renting for maximum profit is your game, but those of US with less than 300 pts like to think we count too!) you can do the following;

- 16 points a night for a Boardwalk Studio at the most expensive time of the year.
- Use two nights worth of points……(total of 32 points)
- Combine with 3-5 cash nights at DVC member discounts.
- Book 10 weeks worth of room nights

Offer the 10 weeks out for sale at extreme markups, short supply (partially thanks to you) and higher than usual demand will see to it that you are not to be precieved as too obscene. Those that are sold make you real money. Those that don’t (with good point management) will rarely hurt you, as you can go through the process again for the next high value season or roll over the points through banking or whatever means, and you can just cancel the cash nights for no pain at all………to you.

This process allows someone with 320 points to tie up 10 rooms for a week each during Thanksgiving period, (or Christmas, or Easter, or March Break, etc..) until a few days out. This allows that individual to make a nice profit for sitting behind their screen in exchange for allowing 10 non-DVC member families to enjoy a vacation, and presumably displace upto 10 DVC families.

So….I am sorry, yes we all can do this……this does not mean any of us should or it may jeopardize our future abilities to do much of what we enjoy (such as passive renting when our own personal circumstances make it required).

This really is a case of a few bad apples possible spoiling it for a bunch. That’s why I made my first comments about not thinking the DIS board was the place to allow these “professional for maximum profit DVC renters” to advertise their ability.

Honestly….I challenge any of you to say that this type of activity is passive….hurts no one…..does not make our future abilities to rent and transfer (basically not use points ourselves) more likely to become restricted in some way.

Anyway…… I have really enjoyed reading this thread…. And see….wasn’t nearly as bad as some at the beginning had predicted.

PS – I know that posting the ‘methods’ of the point magicians may be considered as taboo by some. While I do agree with that thinking in general, it’s impossible to really bring what is happening to peoples attention without laying it down in black and white in front of them.

I’m all for the moderators ‘editing’ this post to remove those malicious renting approaches I stated above. I think the whole thread would have more impact if the ‘dangerous’ part of the recipe for ‘Earn BIG money with your DVC points (and MY cash nights)’ were removed.

 

[Dean]

Honestly….I challenge any of you to say that this type of activity is passive….hurts no one…..does not make our future abilities to rent and transfer (basically not use points ourselves) more likely to become restricted in some way.

It depends on how you look at it. Since members are expressly allowed to rent, there's no danger to the "casual" renter, whoever that is, in losing this privilege. The issue isn't whether any rental hurts another member, but whether any reservation hurts another member. Every time one reserves a high demand time, that means someone else won't get it. While it may be easier for you to swallow if it goes to a member who will use it rather than a member who will rent it, to me it is the same and legally (as well as technically) it is the same. We all bought in to a system where we compete with other members, that is the reality. And when a member rents out their points, it's still the MEMBER who's using the points for their benefit. And since every member has the ability to call at 9 am 11 months out to reserve, any risks should be minimal for all but the limited supply units like GV at VB and BWV. As for commercial rentals, there is no definition in the POS or that DVC has put forth.

 

[Quadman]

Well, I guess we agree to disagree....

For me, its really just as simple as I tell my children.... Treat others as you want to be treated.

"In order for you", I say to them "to have more then your fair share others have to have less than theirs......"

People CAN go to a buffet and eat, and eat and EAT.....as long as it's legal, and I have my rights, and the sign says, yada yada yada......no matter.... as far as most decent standards go.... They would more often than not be considered a pig taking advantage of a situation.

I also tell them that in order for them to 'test' if something is wrong or not they should ask themselves if they can go to who ever is in charge and have no concerns to explain what they are doing...... I don't see any of the professional renters coming here to defend their actions....under any of their various sign in names.....

And I doubt that any of them would call DVC and say to their guide "Gee, I want an add on...I made $XXXXX.XX last year renting out my points and selling off cash nights for a whopin profit. And now I want to double my contract cause Little Jhonnie wants to go to Europe this summer, I should be able to book up a good 30-40 weeks now..... Any tips??".

But...Only my opinion.......and to each his or her own.....

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

- 16 points a night for a Boardwalk Studio at the most expensive time of the year.
- Use two nights worth of points……(total of 32 points)
- Combine with 3-5 cash nights at DVC member discounts.
- Book 10 weeks worth of room nights

Are the hypothetical renters paying more than the Disney rack rate for these these hypothetical points/cash rental reservations? How is the seller making money if he makes these types of reservations? The guest has to pay for the cash nights at check-in. So the seller never gets that money. Also, a seller making member cash reservations has to provide a credit card to hold the room. There are penelties if the reservation is not cancelled according to the cancellation policy.

I also don't understand the anger at a member who tries to rent their real estate interest for the "true value". It's OK for Disney to rent out a BCV studio for $300+ a night, but if a member asks for $13/pt ($156/night) for the same room, they are greedy profiteers.