Earn BIG money with your DVC points (and MY cash nights)

Quadman

Mouseketeer
Joined
Jun 22, 2003
Messages
212
Sorry for the sarcasm of the topic, I know this will be a heated discussion……in the end the moderators will determine if it’s too hot

Many of us see the benefit of being able to Rent/Trade our points on occasion to get out of a jam, or to go on a cruise one year, etc.... Recently discussions have come up that makes me wonder if there is a limitation in the minds of the DVC community (at least on this board) on just what constitutes an acceptable or ‘fair’ exchange. Not only fair to the parties involved in the transactions, but also fair to the DVC membership as a whole since many of these reservations obviously require the manipulation of the reservation system to maximize the number of total reservations that are possible.

This is just a hypothetical (KIND OF, but not really), but……I don’t think it’s fair for members to take a 400 pt allotment and at the 11 month window use the 400 pts in 48 point increments (2 x studio nights at BWV at Thanksgiving) to make 8 (EIGHT) 5-7 day long reservations by using two nights booked on points and the rest at the member discount cash rate; then reselling these 8 overlapping week long reservations at a large markup.

Sure it’s less than Disney’s rack rates, but that’s not the point. The point is taking all of these (what should have been) available room nights away from members (points or member discount nights) and for a profit floating them out to the public.

Maybe I was just naïve, and none of this is any of my business, personally it just ticked me off when I was looking for a cancellation on the rent/trade board (to satisfy an unexpected business trip to Orlando). I wanted a studio that should have been around 45 points for a 5 might stay, but all I could find were $1000-$1500 reservations, course the nice thing was that some individuals that responded to my post on the rent / trade board had a whole menu of reservations to allow me to choose from.

I want to get an idea about how DVC members on the DIS feel about this type of activity, and I also want to know if DIS members think that this an appropriate use of the Rent / Trade boards.
 
I think anyone but those making money off of the transactions would have the same response.

And personally, I would certainly discourage further discussion unless your goal is to put the same thought in other folks' heads. Discussing how members "feel about this type of activity" has little value since there is NOTHING that can be done to change the current situation.
 
Originally posted by tjkraz
And personally, I would certainly discourage further discussion unless your goal is to put the same thought in other folks' heads. Discussing how members "feel about this type of activity" has little value since there is NOTHING that can be done to change the current situation.

Tjkraz

While I don’t disagree with what you post about the ‘dangers’ of bringing this kind of renting activity to light………..

I did not post with a goal to educate members on how to manipulate the system. I have a goal of trying to draw attention to a matter that I don’t think most DIS members would be comfortable with if they were aware.

I am hoping that maybe there is a way that DIS staff might be encouraged to modify the posting guidelines for the Rent/Trade board to bring it closer to it’s original intent (as I understood them, and I may be wrong); as a place where members have an opportunity on occasion to do something with their points other than let them expire, but not as a classified ad board with the permissible motivations being as extreme as ‘To market DVC points purchased for income or investment purposes and to maximize profits.’

At the moment I’ve got to say that the DIS board is about the only facilitation I know of to rent/trade these reservations. Perhaps if there were some desire by DIS Staff to curb this kind of manipulative renting then those that are making the money off this kind of scheme would have to go find elsewhere to post….MAYBE they wouldn’t be able to get the traffic or attention they do here now, and MAYBE this would result in more nights available to the rest of us.

Or maybe by drawing attention and outrage to this kind of activity DVC management may even redefine what they consider acceptable…..or at least enforce their existing rules, since it seems that renting regularly for profit was not something DVC promoted as a member benefit.

Either way…making noise and lobbying for change about something within the system that is wrong makes far more sense than staying quiet and hoping more don’t find out how to ‘screw’ the system. And frankly I don’t think many more members would go out of their way to manipulate the system in this way if they were aware…..You’ve got to have gotten into DVC with a motivation towards profit (not savings, but profit) for you to even start thinking about things this way.

Again…Just my opinion.
 

Originally posted by tjkraz
I think anyone but those making money off of the transactions would have the same response.

And personally, I would certainly discourage further discussion unless your goal is to put the same thought in other folks' heads. Discussing how members "feel about this type of activity" has little value since there is NOTHING that can be done to change the current situation.

Yup!
 
ok, so Im a newbie......maybe someone can educate me (honestly, I'd love to understand)......why can nothing be done?

Why do these renters have to be provided a fourm for their repetitious, manipluative profit making?

Why is Disney not permitted to enforce it's rules against renting for profit?

Like I said....maybe Im naive, but I think that if enough DVC members are as outraged as I am at the EXTENT that some will take this renting manipulation, then maybe voices will be heard?

Do you all really think it too lofty a goal?....Is it really best just to sit down and shut up? Hard to believe......
 
There should be no renting out of points and only the people of record should be allowed to check in. Guests could be allowed but only if the owners were present. Capacity limits should also be inforced.
 
Don't be offended by the replies you read here. We've just been down this road so many times it just gets a little tiring. And to be honest, the way your thread is titled is more then a little misleading. My first thought was " oh boy, another alias for ....... trying to raise rental prices" .
 
Originally posted by Pa@okw95
There should be no renting out of points and only the people of record should be allowed to check in. Guests could be allowed but only if the owners were present. Capacity limits should also be inforced.

Personally I'd be willing to slack off more than that. I'd just like to target those who purchase for the purpose of renting out in volume for profits sake.

Something like cash nights rented by members can not be paid for in advance and must be paid for at check in on the members credit card.

This would prevent the reselling or transfering of cash nights at member discounts, and at least allow those nights to remain in the system. Also would eliminate the possibility of the manipluative reservations I discuss above.
 
***"There should be no renting out of points and only the people of record should be allowed to check in. "***

I have no problem with a member renting their points if a situation arises where they can't use them. Maybe someday I'll find myself unemployeed and I'll rent my points to pay the dues and maybe a bag of groceries or two.

***"Guests could be allowed but only if the owners were present. "***

Totally disagree with this part though. I let my DS have a week during spring break. I sure wouldn't want to drive to FL just to let him check in.
 
Originally posted by KNWVIKING
Don't be offended by the replies you read here. We've just been down this road so many times it just gets a little tiring. And to be honest, the way your thread is titled is more then a little misleading. My first thought was " oh boy, another alias for ....... trying to raise rental prices" .

I agree that the thread title is misleading.....I apologize for tis. It's just after a little while of lurking here I've seen that the thread titles that are 'SPUN" well usually remain high on the view list, and as I had posted my intention here is to raise some kind of outcry.

And thanks for telling me not to be offended by the replies, I knew that this topic was going to bring some comments, and frankly I'm hoping for it.

If there really are reasons that these things can't be changed, I don't want to be the only one trying the impossible, but I see options, so I wonder....thats all.....

PS - An interesting note would be that the thread that kind of started me on this treck has now been removed from the Rent/Trade board. I hope this one gets to remain.
 
***"If there really are reasons that these things can't be changed, I don't want to be the only one trying the impossible, but I see options, so I wonder....thats all....."***

Bottom line is that Disney left this muddy loop hole open and has no desire to try and fix it as it costs them nothing for leaving it open. I think the only silver lining is that the abusers are in the extreme minority.
 
But are cash night options part of the official DVC rules that cannot be changed? If not then the cash night perk should only be for reservations made in the Member's name for member stays only. This would prevent renting cash nights.

This would not take away from renting out nights reserved on points. You paid for them, do as you please.

Sorry for my cluelessness on the cash night subject.
 
The discount cash nights are usually not available until 2 or 3 months before the reservation date. These discounts are limited to a small amt of inventory. I seriously doubt you can book these at the 7 month window, much less the 11.

Has anyone ever tried to get a discounted room and not been able to?

****

I hope DVC doesn't restrict renting of points. It allows members to recoup value from years they can't use points and may even allow some members to keep their points during times of financial stress.

I don't see how DVC could market the points as "ownership" and not allow renting.

*****

I think this thread and others like it are VERY IMPORTANT for DVC and its members.

:earsboy:
 
Here is the number one reason that rules surrounding point rental for profit will never change.

Care to guess who the single largest for-profit renter of DVC points might be? How about The Walt Disney Company.

DVC retains a portion of ownership at each resort. Part of the reason for this is to allow them to set rooms aside ahead of time and subsequently lease those rooms to non-members at prices well above the rates even we DVC members charge. DVC also acquires additional points via trade options and so forth. These are used for the same purpose.

The bottom line is that the language in the agreements about not using DVC in a for-profit venture is BARELY enforcable. They could probably use that to hammer anyone who tried to run an actual business from within a DVC room.

Other than that, any attempts to break up current rental activities or modify the rules to dissuade point rental would result in legal action. DVC would lose. End of story.

Besides, if Disney could do something about for-profit point rental, don't you think they would? Nearly every time a non-member rents points for a Disney stay, they are taking money out of Disney's pockets. These are people who WANT to stay at a Disney resort, but find a cheaper way to do it than giving their cash to WDW. Yes, you could argue that point rental activities have directly and indirectly lead to additional DVC point sales. You could also argue that without the rental option, some people would simply choose to stay off site. But Disney still loses siginificant dollars to renters. Imagine if Disney had captive access to the larger DVC rooms (1B, 2B, GVs) for cash ressies. These rooms would certainly bring in the $400-700 daily rates that Disney tries to charge. Yes, there are people in the world with that much disposable income. :) But, as it stands now, why pay that much when you can rent points for a 2b for $200 per night.

The reality is that IF Disney / DVC could do something to amend the current rules, they probably would. I just don't believe they could legally do so.
 
I was under the impression that in order to get a member cash discount, the member had to actually be on the reservation and check in. Is that not correct?
 
tjkraz.... I can see what you are saying about Disney/DVC being unwilling to do something, and I do agree that they should see lost revenue on occasion from allowing NON DVC individuals to find lower rates when they probably would have otherwise bought through Disney.

But again..... I don't see why with the spirit of the DIS boards being what it is that the boards would really be the 'store front' for those that would choose to make DVC a business.

Could the moderators not accept submissions for posting and be the only ones permitted to post, all other communication could take place by PM. But the moderator would immediately have a feel for the frequency of the posts by a single individual. I know it's more time consuming, but hey this is a community, right??

As only ONE example I would point to the threads below. All started by the SAME POSTER between 04-09-2003 and today. Does the DIS board really condone this kind of thing by ommiting regulations that would prevent it? I mean seriously....take a look, this must be one heck of a contract.......

# 1 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=353354
# 2 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=354258
# 3 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=357575
# 4 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=357841
# 5 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=357854
# 6 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=361354
# 7 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=359844
# 8 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=361356
# 9 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=363716
# 10 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=364413
# 11 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=366359
# 12 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=366362
# 13 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=366368
# 14 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=371705
# 15 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=369071
# 16 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=369591
# 17 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=370343
# 18 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=370346
# 19 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=371653
# 20 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=373100
# 21 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=373808
# 22 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=373657
# 23 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=380599
# 24 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=380639
# 25 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=394991
# 26 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=394989
# 27 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=395629
# 28 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=396256
# 29 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=397807
# 30 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=397845
# 31 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=398880
# 32 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=403076
# 33 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=412826
# 34 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=414073
# 35 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=416692
# 36 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=417981
# 37 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=418446
# 38 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=422146
# 39 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=422203
# 40 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=424623
# 41 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=429172
# 42 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=429764
# 43 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=432306
# 44 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=433362
# 45 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=439134
# 46 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=439138
# 47 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=686474
# 48 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=686471
# 49 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=682526
# 50 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=679091
# 51 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=670721
# 52 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=669492
# 53 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=669507
# 54 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=669501
# 55 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=665984
# 56 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=665989
# 57 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=654277
# 58 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=654274
# 59 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=640241
# 60 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=640112
# 61 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=640107
# 62 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=640092
# 63 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=640063
# 64 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=637618
# 65 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=636366
# 66 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=632035
# 67 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=624724
# 68 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=624691
# 69 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=624689
# 70 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=620198
# 71 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=614243
# 72 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=615058
# 73 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=613673
# 74 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=611070
# 75 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=609774
# 76 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=601044
# 77 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=564836
# 78 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=512723
 
I was under the impression that in order to get the member cash discount, the member had to be on the reservation and be there to check in. Is that not correct?
 
Quadman,

Well that certainly IS impressive, in a negative way. While it would be interesting to speculate on the true nature of this particular case, let me just say it does appear that regulation of this type of behavior would be appropriate. Just place a reasonable limit on the number of threads and/or posts on the Rent/Trade board, if the software will allow that.
 
lizziepooh said:
I was under the impression that in order to get the member cash discount, the member had to be on the reservation and be there to check in. Is that not correct?

I think that you can in fact make a reservation using points and cash in someone elses name. Although I've not personally done that, as I stated in my original message, this is what was offered to me....a selection in fact.....
 



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