DW cancelled our trip! (update pg. 6, we're going!)

[Disneyrsh]

Okay, I went back as you requested and looked at your previous posts for this thread.

You have a mortgage (debt), and TWO car payments (debt, debt).

I think you *did* mean to be sarcastic; I don't think people are trying to 'convert' DisDon, they are offering him what he asked for, which is a way to do disney that his wife would be comfortable with. He did not have Disney people knocking on his door on sunday morning.

He never asked for weight loss or debt management tips, which he also got, are those people Dave Ramsey or Weight Watchers evangelists?

My problem with your post is that it was flip and unhelpful, and taking digs at people who didn't deserve it.

I have absolutely no problem with people telling the emperor that he has no clothes, but you missed the mark.

 

[MrsPete]

Maybe if some of the posters would read the entire thread they would not have jumped to the conclusion that DisDon is drowning in debt. He said he has some debt but is working on it and does not want to increase it. Please read the entire thread before you respond !!!

I read that the debt has been with him for his whole married life, and it isn't budging. It is costing him money every single month, and it is costing him his Disney trip. I read between the lines that the debt is causing friction between him and his wife. I think these things are serious.

I understand that we all have different tolerances when it comes to debt. It sounds like you're okay with carrying some debt -- I'm not. In Don's case, it is causing problems in his life, so it needs to go.

If you'll read the whole thread, you'll see that early on I offered a large number of positive ways to cut back and attack the debt.

 

[DisDon]

All right all you Jiminy Cricket, Dave Ramsey, Weight Watchers Evangelists, just simmer down! We all just need some pixie dust smoothies, mmm!
I really appreciate all the info and advise, I've seen several points of view and lines of reasoning here that have helped me. The first couple of posts I made here, I was feeling really upset and sad. Now I'm very hopeful, feeling really good about getting healthier, still concerned about the finances.

A note about the flights, really cool, JetBlue flies us all standby for free, no taxes or fees, just show up and wait to see if the plane fills up. We took the whole family down to SoCal a couple of times this past winter, spread us around the plane a little bit, but that can be fun, we're mostly a friendly and social bunch, DD7 is the social butterfly, everytime she meets new kids anywhere, she immediately introduces herself and finds out everything about them. Those two trips we stayed in hotels near DL and Knotts, all the kids wanted to do was play in the hotel pool. I was all over Hotwire, Expedia, Priceline, got killer deals. Neither time did we go into the parks, went to DD for a while once, everything too expensive, but the kids loved the Lego store. We love the beach, its a real treat for us mountain folk. We like to go when its cold and cloudy, no one else is there!!
Have a Happy Independence Day everyone!! America!!

 

[hojo]

It sounds like some want to start a "look how successful I am" thread. I don't think that this was the point of this thread though.

Take a year off Don, save some doe and figure out a game plan. Your trip to WDW will be there waiting for you and your family.

 

[MOMOFMNM]

Okay, I went back as you requested and looked at your previous posts for this thread.

You have a mortgage (debt), and TWO car payments (debt, debt).

I think you *did* mean to be sarcastic; I don't think people are trying to 'convert' DisDon, they are offering him what he asked for, which is a way to do disney that his wife would be comfortable with. He did not have Disney people knocking on his door on sunday morning.

He never asked for weight loss or debt management tips, which he also got, are those people Dave Ramsey or Weight Watchers evangelists?

My problem with your post is that it was flip and unhelpful, and taking digs at people who didn't deserve it.

I have absolutely no problem with people telling the emperor that he has no clothes, but you missed the mark.

Hi...I just wanted to say that yes he did mention that his weight was an issue...he is now exercising and visiting the weight loss thread he did say...I having been there myself know that being unhappy about your weight is something that can be changed if you want to work at it and I offer any and all encouragement to those who need it or want it or who are looking for some inspiration

Wow WW evangelist...that is kinda creative...I like that acutally...better than the Ho Ho or Twinkie Queen I guess...

 

[nowellsl]

DisDon will tell you himself, I'm sure, that debt makes you stressed, angry and afraid. I speak also from personal experience here. Once you no longer are in debt you feel FREE and light and joyous, and that's reflected in Minnie's post.

That's exactly why some feel that money spent going to Disney would be better spent going towards paying off some of his debt. If DisDon uses all the money he would have spent towards a Disney trip to pay down his debt it will get paid all the faster - then his family can save for a Disney trip knowing that he won't have debt when he gets back.

DisDon - ultimately it's up to you and your wife to decide how agressively you want to attack this debt. I only know that once I made my mind up to say to myself "I will not take on anymore debt today" every day and started paying as much extra as I could to my credit card debt - only then did the balances start getting smaller and smaller and I could see an end in sight! What seemed impossible before is actually coming to pass! I think we should start a countdown on months until we're debt free! Mine is at 30 months! I can't wait until I'm actually able to keep my own money every month instead of having to pay for things I don't even remember buying!

 

[minnie61650]

All right all you Jiminy Cricket, Dave Ramsey, Weight Watchers Evangelists, just simmer down! We all just need some pixie dust smoothies, mmm!....

Have a Happy Independence Day everyone!! America!!

LOL
Thanks for the pixie dust smoothie.
I feel better already.You have a good sence of humor.
Fire up the grill and have a great Independence Day.
Linda

 

[DisDon]

Ok, thought I'd resurrect this old thread with the latest on our trip if anyone is interested. Just feel like sharing and venting, ignore at will.

So, when we left off back in July the trip was off and I was stewing in my own juices, but making progress on the weight loss and continuing my research. I did pretty well through July and August, seems like the easiest months for me to eat healthier, drink lots of water, go walking at night when it cools off. Sept. was ok, but then our anniversary rolled around on the 21st, and DW tells me "OK, I talked to my sister, and she needs us to go to WDW with her and her family", so, THE TRIP IS ON!!

In the great tradition of Delswife, I've gone back to driving 3 nights a weeks at Domino's to make money for the trip and other bills. This has eased our money crunch somewhat, and DW has even put a couple hundred in our savings acct. (didn't make much sense until she told me they charge us $4/month unless we have $300 in there, dumb, but with mediocre credit its the best we can get). DW has been working lots of extra hours at overtime rates for JetBlue, due to Katrina and Wilma and all those other nasty people.

Here are our costs for our base plan:
7 day tickets for 4 Adults (my 12 and 10 yr olds sure don't act like adults) and 2 kids thru Ticket Mania = $1078 (paid for by SIL, pay her back with tax refund, unless she really refuses, she's threatened to not let us pay her back since she's flying free because of DW, and we paid for her week at Liki Tiki, $340 for 2 bdrm condo.)

7 nights at Liki Tiki thru exchange, cost about $130 for II 1 yr membership and $130 for exchange fee = $260 (paid)

Car rental 7 day premium car at Alamo $193 or minivan at Dollar $241, I have both reserved but haven't decided which to use, IL's have minivan reserved, so we may give them a kid. Not paid for yet, still watching the Hotwire rates.

Gotta love the new $9/day parking rates, worst case is 7 days = $63.

We'll probably save money on gas from what we normally spend in a week, I commute 85 miles/day 4 times a week + 3 nights driving pizza, and DW drives a Suburban. Figure 1 drive to either Clearwater or Daytona for the beach as our longest excursion.

For food, we will probably hit Walmart as soon as we've checked into the room and figured out what we're going to need. I've looked a lot at the various dining options in the parks, and for our tastes and budget, counter service looks just fine for an average of 1 meal a day. I figure we'll do breakfast in the condo, go to parks and either come back for lunch and a break, eating dinner CS, or eat lunch CS and come back to condo for dinner, probably when we go to AK. I'm sure we'll do a few other dining stops, gotta check out the Worlds Largest McD Playland, and the Ponderosa breakfast buffet we had on our scouting trip was good for $3.99.

Souveneirs are probably last on my priority list, but been reading about some of the outlet malls around, Character Corner at the LBV Factory Stores sounds like a winner.

I've been frustrated because I would really like to extend by 2 days so that we're travelling home on Sunday instead of Friday. Seems a waste of the weekend to come home on Friday, plus we wouldn't be able to use all of our 7 day tickets unless we went every day. I was really hoping for Free Dining with a stay for us all at a Value Resort, but that didn't happen, and I have been unable to get any availability for a Value on Dec. 9, last day of the Pop Warner week. So alternatively I've looked at various cheap hotels and things, but just recently took a serious look at Skyauctions. Seems we could get a 3 or 4 bdr timeshare condo for those 2 night for under $100 a night. I've already reserved a 12 passenger van from Thrifty for those 2 days for $163.21, so our half of that would be about $82.

The frustrating part is that I mentioned wanting to stay 2 more days to DW and she blew up at me. She has it in her mind that this is an 'extravagant' trip, and that anything more is unthinkable in our financial situation. My feeling is I'm working 60+ hours/week for the trip, so I'd like to spend a little more and get our full value out of the trip. I don't imagine we'll be doing anything like this anytime in the forseeable future, unless DW somehow catches the Disney bug from this trip and want to go again.

Another frustrating thing came up last night. DW's youngest brother got married last year and has a new baby, about 4 months old. She's been able to get buddy passes for them to come with us, and they recently decided to go, which is great. They're a lot of fun and really nice. They're only staying for the 1st weekend, and only going to the parks 1 day, so we'll probably all go to MK on Sat. Dec. 3 together. The frustrating part is that they've suggested we all go to church on Sunday together, which was the day I had planned for AK. We're very regular church goers, and I would have no problem with this if it weren't for our limited time available. It would also mean packing dress clothes for all of us. Its a little frustrating because when we've travelled in the past we've never worried about missing church. We camp for the archery deer hunt every summer and always spend at least 1 Sunday in camp relaxing. I do think I'll be ok with this if we stay the 2 extra days, but otherwise we're going to end up with several unused days on our tickets. I had planned a week day for a day off, go to the beach, but I did say last night that maybe we could go to the beach after church and she seemed ok with that.

All in all I'm very excited about the trip, only a little frustrated, and probably more frustrated at Pop Warner than DW. Here's my plan, based mostly on the Best Days schedue from www.touringplans.com:
Fri 2 EP (EP has haley joel osment at processional)
Sat 3 MK
Sun 4 AK or church and beach
Mon 5 AK or DS
Tue 6 DS or EP or beach
Wed 7 Any
Thr 8 AK or DS
Fri 9 travel (either home or to next condo)
Sat 10 MK or EP or DS
Sun 11 travel

So, for any of you tough enough to have read this far, flame away!!

 

[HayGan]

Just wanted to say have a wonderful trip and we will see you there!!!

 

[MrsPete]

DW tells me "OK, I talked to my sister, and she needs us to go to WDW with her and her family", so, THE TRIP IS ON!!

Reading this, my biggest concern is not whether you go on a DW trip for a week, but that you and your wife don't seem to be connecting /agreeing on these things. It concerns me that she'll say "yes" to her sister but "no" to you. You, her husband, should outrank her sister.

In the great tradition of Delswife, I've gone back to driving 3 nights a weeks at Domino's to make money for the trip and other bills

Good! Since you're somewhat "behind", this extra cash will help you catch up. Consider how many "Disney trips" you've paid to the credit card company. Being in debt is expensive! Just think of how many Disney trips you can have once your debt is paid off.

7 day tickets for 4 Adults (my 12 and 10 yr olds sure don't act like adults) and 2 kids thru Ticket Mania = $1078 (paid for by SIL, pay her back with tax refund, unless she really refuses, she's threatened to not let us pay her back since she's flying free because of DW, and we paid for her week at Liki Tiki, $340 for 2 bdrm condo.)

I wouldn't argue too hard about paying for the tickets. You're giving her free transportation AND the condo! If a family member were giving me those things, I'd WANT to do something big for them in exchange.

The frustrating part is that I mentioned wanting to stay 2 more days to DW and she blew up at me. She has it in her mind that this is an 'extravagant' trip, and that anything more is unthinkable in our financial situation. My feeling is I'm working 60+ hours/week for the trip, so I'd like to spend a little more and get our full value out of the trip.

Again, I think the biggest area of concern is that you and she don't seem to have the same long-term goals for your family. There is not right or wrong answer here, but you and she need to get on the same page.

The frustrating part is that they've suggested we all go to church on Sunday together, which was the day I had planned for AK..

We are also every-Sunday folks, but I don't have a problem with skipping church on vacation. God cares about the condition of your heart, not the number of times your butt was in that pew. However, if your family feels differently, there's no rule that you MUST stick together every minute of the day. In fact, I think you'll enjoy yourselves more if you agree that days A, B, and C are "large group family days" -- and perhaps you could plan special meals, etc. for those days -- while D, E, and F are individual family days. Spending every minute together is'nt realistic.

 

[graygables]

I agree that you shouldn't worry too much about the tickets. Sounds like a fair exchange to me.

As far as church goes, I skip it while we're at WDW. They used to have a service at the Poly and I went to that, but since then, nope...God knows my heart.

As far as meals go...we usually have a light something in the morning that I've packed along (granola bar, piece of fruit), then eat a counter service lunch and a sit down dinner, so really only 2 meals a day. My DDs are fine with that, so you might be able to play down your food budget a bit to maybe fit in a nicer meal here or there. Also, the portions tend to be pretty big, so you may even share. With all the walking you'll be doing, you may come home even more svelte!

I just wanted to add that I completely understand the desire to go and the debt issues. I'm a SAHomeschoolingM and my DH is a self-employed masonry contractor. DD3 was born 10 months after we married with no insurance and she had problems, so debt has been with us since day 1, too. If all we focused on was the debt, our lives would be miserable, but we have decided that, while we don't necessarily like the debt/poor credit situation, there is nothing we could have done differently to have avoided it, so we are paying the piper, so to speak. We agree that interest is a consequence of that and we are making headway, but in the meantime, we do not put every extra bit that comes in toward the debt. It will eventually go away, but our children will not stay little, so we maintain the lifestyle we want them to grow up with, not lavish or extravagant, but just enough fun and joy to keep it from being depressing.

Have a wonderful time on your trip!!!

 

[Callalily6]

Hey, I've been reading this post and needless to say...interesting. My husband and I are in grad school, rather strapped, and try to go to WDW every 18 months or so. A few people think we are nuts, a few understand...but we could never go that often if it weren't for a few things. #1. We NEVER pay full price on anything. The more you read the more you can plan. The more you can plan the more you can save. #2. Tax return. We usually put our tax return toward the trip. And then on each trip we do things that will make the next trip cheaper...like buy an extra day for $2 on a non-expiring pass. On our next trip we upgrade the pass - which makes passes WAY CHEAPER. The main thing is that BOTH you and your hunny need to feel like it is important enough to blow that much money on the trip. Our philosophy is that we are buying time. I've lost a lot of people over the years, and maybe its reactionary, but I take vacation to make sure I stop and live with loved ones and take time that would otherwise be snatched away by the hussle of the day. I took my daughter this fall for $500 for the 2 of us. That took a TON of planning...Hope it works out.

 

[mommyof3grlz]

We are driving to Orlando from Alabama on Sunday Dec.4. If we leave at 5A.M. we can be there by 11 A.M. My husband is an assistant pastor at our church. What we like to do is sing songs and have a family devotional and/or a short prayer time when we miss church. We love getting away together as a family. Just a thought. Do what feels right for you and your family.

 

[Disneyrsh]

We don't go to church when we're at disney.

One reason, going to a 'strange' church is not at all enjoyable for us, and Two: I get that same great uplifted spiritual feeling at Disney that I get at church!

So, the way we figure it, it's like an entire WEEK of being spiritually uplifted when we're down there.

Don, I gotta say, it may not be what you're saying to your wife, but how. When she got mad at you about the two extra days, it's possible that you may not have introduced the idea as a money saving angle.

You might want to show her with pencil and paper how it could make sense economically, that usually works for me when my husband can 'show' me how something could work rather than 'tell' me. If it's a sensitive topic, I tend to blow up at being 'told' something but will usually listen if he's 'showing' me. Unless I'm premenstrual, then all bets are off....

 

[Pea-n-Me]

As you can see from my signature, our first trip to WDW wasn't until 2001. DH and I spent the many years that we were together prior to that going to college, working two jobs, buying and fixing our home, etc.. basically being very responsible. One real vacation in all that time, prior to kids.

Fast forward to 2001, the year of 9/11. Our first trip which I fretted about the cost of. Then in 2003 I got a cancer diagnosis. My twins were just about to turn 6. I never dreamed that would happen to me at such a young age, but it did. Right now I am fine, but it's changed my outlook on life. We're still fiscally responsible, but there is very little that would keep me from our vacations. We've never had so much fun in our lives and my kids have many, many happy memories. As the commercial says, PRICELESS.

One of my cancer doctors said it best when she told me that "life is not a dress rehearsal, live it now". None of us know what tomorrow brings. Enjoy your trip with your family, DisDon, and work hard at paying that debt down when you get back, ok?

 

[DisFam95]

Glad you're going!!! Sounds like you are both doing what you can and making good choices in taking extra jobs/shifts.

The previous quote about living your life now is so true. You are not being extravagant I think..free airfare, in room meals, no souvies basically.

Re: the extended 2days. This is lready some level of mental burden to your wife..don't push it!!! Be careful with that "but I'm SAVING money" mentality. That's a big reason people are in so much debt IMO. The $/day may be slightly better but you are still spending more money. Get home and have the weekend to decompress, take care of laundry, unpacking eyc before the grind starts again. I hate coming home on a Sunday and having to go back to work so soon.

Anyway...congrats and give you wife a big hug and cool it!

 

[MrsPete]

Re: the extended 2days. This is lready some level of mental burden to your wife..don't push it!!! Be careful with that "but I'm SAVING money" mentality. That's a big reason people are in so much debt IMO

You're right! Advertising and stores have "taught us" that you SAVE BY SPENDING!

To say it that way it sounds foolish, but you know what I mean: You go to JC Penny's (I use their name because they're notorious for this) and find jeans on sale for buy-one-get-one-free. You hadn't actually thought about needing more jeans, but when this good price presents itself you decide to pick up two pair. After all, some of yours are getting old. When you check out, the clerk proudly announces, "You saved $30 today!" WRONG. You SPENT $30; you have $30 less than you did when you entered the store. Though the jeans will be a useful item, they were an impulse buy not a need. The store still made a profit. Yet through the skillful use of a sale, the store has convinced you to buy AND they've made you believe that you saved money.

What does this have to do with Disney? Well, your trip will cost LESS PER DAY if you add the two days; however, the TOTAL COST will be higher. You two together need to decide whether the extra days are worth the extra cost.

Perhaps you could consider having two "at home" days at the condo. You could do 2 days of park days, then a rest day, 2 more park days, then a rest day . . . this makes things with children much more do-able. You can find free things (such as Downtown Disney) for your non-park days. Perhaps you and your wife would find this a good mid-way between your desires.

 

[JPN4265]

That would be me . I have been to WDW about 15 times.

My husband has a very good job, I work from home and all my money goes to vacations, I only have one child, the only debt we have is 2 car payments (recently rolled together into a 1.99% loan) and a mortgage and we pay our credit cards off every month.

We can afford to go to WDW 2-3 times a year. You cannot. If you're drowning in debt you cannot even afford to go once . Life is not fair and some of the choices you have made in the past have now come to roost.

I think the people who are encouraging you to go are doing you a real disservice. Wait, save your money, pay your bills, get your debt under control and go to WDW in a year or two. It will still be there. I am sorry to be so blunt.

I agree with this post. Going to WDW would be a short term enjoyment. Like going off of your diet and drinking a large bottle of Doc-P. You will hate yourself in the morning. When you get back from your trip, the bills are still in the mail box and the problems have not gone away. I enjoy a vacation as much as the next person, but I would think putting the trip off for another year and working on your immediate debt is the smart thing to do. I promise that coming home to a debt free mail box is a wonderful feeling. Good luck and keep walking.

 

[MrsPete]

I agree with this post. Going to WDW would be a short term enjoyment. Like going off of your diet and drinking a large bottle of Doc-P. You will hate yourself in the morning. When you get back from your trip, the bills are still in the mail box and the problems have not gone away. I enyoy a vacation as much as the next person, but I would think putting the trip off for another year and working on your immediate debt is the smart thing to do. I promise that coming home to a debt free mail box is a wonderful feeling. Good luck and keep walking.

What you can and can't afford is all about having balance in your financial life. Some people will tell you, "Life is too short; you could suffer a tragedy tomorrow; go and don't worry about the money." Others will say, "You can't afford a vacation unless you're all-but debt free." Both of these are WRONG because they're too absolute.

Instead, you need to make sure that you have balance in your financial life. If you have a fairly secure, good income, then a reasonable amount of debt is not a problem. On the other hand, if you're carrying revolving credit card debt (this is an absolute killer for anyone) or if you're barely able to pay your bills each month, then you are out of balance and you cannot afford luxuries like vacations. Too many people get themselves into this situation because they "push the envelope" of what they can afford, or they spend more than they make. Going to WDW, staying at the Poly, and charging the whole thing (without knowing you can pay the bill at the end of the month) is way too extreme in one direction; refusing to go on a vacation until you have your children's college education completely saved is way too extreme in the other direction.

In this case, the original poster's out of balance. The fact that the debt's been with them "forever" and the fighting with his wife about money are definite hints.

I just heard about a book that put forth certain percentages for a comfortable financial picture. It was something like, your house shouldn't exceed 30% of your take-home income, your other debts shouldn't exceed more than 30% total . . . I wanted to remember that book title! The theory made sense to me: if you allow your debts to exceed a certain percentage of your salary, you will have so little left for wants that you'll give up on your budget completely. Anyone know what book this is?

 

[Reflection]

.....
I just heard about a book that put forth certain percentages for a comfortable financial picture. It was something like, your house shouldn't exceed 30% of your take-home income, your other debts shouldn't exceed more than 30% total . . . I wanted to remember that book title! The theory made sense to me: if you allow your debts to exceed a certain percentage of your salary, you will have so little left for wants that you'll give up on your budget completely. Anyone know what book this is?

The book is called "All Your Worth: The Ultimate Lifetime Money Plan" by Elizabeth Warren and Amelia Warren Tyagi.