DVC worth it for going every third year?

[Fellowship9798]

Just another question for all you knowledgeable and helpful people out there. It seems to be the common advice that DVC is worth it if you are going at least once every 1-2 years and staying in moderates or deluxes. For those located on the west coast, the cost and expense of travel out to Florida is greater, plus a lot more hassle with the time difference, at least compared with those of you in driving distance. Bascially multiple short trips per year aren't as feasible.

What are the thoughts on the financial viability of DVC for taking loger trips (say 2 weeks) every three years. As DVC really only covers accomodations, this helps spread the high cost of admissions, car rental, etc. over a longer period.

I can't see a big obvious difference in financial terms between banking and borrowing for a 2 week trip every three years vs. a one week trip 2 out of every 3 years or a 1.5 week trip every other year, or a 4-5 day trip every year. Of course you can get very technical and talk about lost interest on annual dues for years your're not actually travelling, but in the big picture it seems to be pretty similar.

Can anyone poke holes in this logic for me? My wife and I are just about over the cusp of deciding to buy, but the longer travel time with small children from the west coast plus a reluctance to be entirely "locked in" to only going to WDW every year are the road blocks, so I'm looking at an extreme scenario out of curiosity. We wouldn't exchange points for other II resorts as it just doesn't seem an efficient use of points/money. Actually I would love to be locked into WDW every year, but there is something to be said for variety now and then, like maybe a trip to Disneyland instead . If and when they open a DVC resort there, things will be much easier.

So who has some thoughts on the financial sense of a long trip every 3years vs.shorter trips every 1-2 years? Does it make a difference or work out the same in your opinion?

(Although from reading these boards I know that once DVC sucks you in you just start going more and more...)

 

[GAN]

Hi Darren,
I'm on the fence like you, and have the same question. I just can't guarantee being there every 2 years(although likely). The best I could figure, I would make out if I could rent 1 years points during a 3 year period. Without renting, going every 3 years just wouldn't make sense financially -at least not untill I reach a payback on the initial purchase price, which I figure close to 10 years.

 

[JimC]

Good points. My take is that it really depends on a number of factors - what size unit, what season, what alternate accommodations you would seek and the DVC resort you buy. The example below assumes 3.2% annual fee inflation, 5.2% annual room rate inflation and a 6.6% annual opportunity cost on making the investment in DVC.

Let's assume you buy SSR for a two bedroom during magic season for two weeks every third year. You take your trips in late June because of school calendars. That requires 316 points times 2 weeks divided by three for 211 points purchased. Let's also assume an AP discount of 30% for any deluxe resort you would stay at (staying two weeks would probably make APs worthwhile for that year - particularly with the ability to buy a DDE card). If you bought with the referral discount and compared yourself to Wilderness Lodge (one of the least expensive deluxe resorts) my advice would be to put the money in the money market and pay for your rooms out of that fund. After 50 years there will still be money left over.

Same advice for a BCV resale compared to staying at the BC resort.

The numbers just don't work for those assumptions. But you need to factor in one resort room versus a 2 bedroom villa. You may also consider other benefits (although they may change and are not guaranteed) such as the DVC AP discount.

If you would like the spreadsheet to play with yourself just send me a PM. Because if you would not get an AP and could only get a 10% AAA discount on a room then the advice changes.

 

[Duckieluckey]

My best advice to a young couple is to get your parents to go with you to WDW and suggest that they buy into DVC. They will never have a problem getting the family together once they are DVC members. May I also suggest that you have the membership titled to you and your parents as joint tenants with right or survivorship.

 

[dianeschlicht]

My best advice to a young couple is to get your parents to go with you to WDW and suggest that they buy into DVC. They will never have a problem getting the family together once they are DVC members. May I also suggest that you have the membership titled to you and your parents as joint tenants with right or survivorship.

That is a very good plan, but as the owner/parents, I can tell you that it often entails us coughing up the airfare and park tickets too!

As for every three years.... If you start with the minimum buy in of 150 points, bank those points into the next year and in that year borrow the points from the following year, you will have used 3 years of points in your second year of membership. Assuming you want to continue doing this, you would then bank and borrow again. This means 2 trips in 6 years, but not exactly every 3 years.
Example:
'05 points banked to '06 with '07 points borrowed for trip in '06
'08 points banked to '09 with '10 points borrowed for a trip in '09
Does that make sense? You could get 450 points at your disposal for each of those trips, and that means a longer stay or larger accommodations, or both.

 

[Beca]

There are MANY MANY people who buy a small resale contract (say, 50 points) who do so for exactly the reasons you are speaking of....they bank and borrow and go once every three years. Personally, I think it is very smart of them!! If you don't have a "Disney problem" like most of us do (I think we all have deep psychological issues), and are happy going once every three years....you can pre-pay your disney vacations for the next 37 years with less than a $4000 investment. Plus, even though you are using your points only once every 3 years, you are eligible for all the "perks" every year.

DVC is a GREAT investment if you have "self control". I even know of a person who only has 25 points a year, and it is GREAT for them. They go once every 3 years and stay in a studio for 6-7 nights. Their membership cost them less than $2000, and dues are $100 per year.

It sounds like you have a great handle on things!!!


Beca

 

[Duckieluckey]

Quote: "That is a very good plan, but as the owner/parents, I can tell you that it often entails us coughing up the airfare and park tickets too!"

Yes, that is a side effect. An even better reason to invite the parents along. They also provide free babysitting.

But a word of caution, teenage nieces do not understand the equity of, “I provide you with a free vacation and you provide babysitting in the evenings.” It is all about me, me, me. Other relations may also feel an entitlement to share your DVC membership. They may even treat you the way you treat your parents.

 

[Fellowship9798]

If you don't have a "Disney problem" like most of us do (I think we all have deep psychological issues), and are happy going once every three years....you can pre-pay your disney vacations for the next 37 years with less than a $4000 investment. Plus, even though you are using your points only once every 3 years, you are eligible for all the "perks" every year.
Beca

Oh I certainly do have a "Disney problem"! I've had it since early grade school. I blame my parents for taking me to Disneyland almost every year throughout my childhood. I'm still there almost annually, if not more often when I can squeeze in extra vists on business trips to Southern California. The issue is that my Disney Problem is tempered with a "Financial Responsibility Problem". As you can imagine, these two problems often clash.

I could very easily see us jumping down to Disneyland in CA annually, like you east coasters do with WDW. WDW is just mentally (and financially) a bigger trip to take from the West Coast. You lose a full day travelling there and another one travelling back. There's no easy hopping down for a long weekend, so I think a west coaster's (and particularly a northern west coster's) perspective of the DVC has to be different than someone in driving distance or even within a 2-3 hour flight. Plus I don't feel there's as many "bargain" flight options for travel to Orlando from Vancouver or Seattle as there are from east coast cities, so the travel component is going to generally be more expensive.

If and when DVC builds in California, then there's a whole different world of possibilities!

 

[crisi]

I think three years is hard, because you will end up "wasting" points. We do every other - which means we use current points, banked points and borrowed points for each vacation - but the borrowed ones we don't use get banked into the following year....

For instance 150 points:

Take 72 points remaining from 2002 and bank them into 2003.
Use 150 2003 points
Borrow 60 2004 points.

Book at 2 bedroom in October 2003 for 282 points

Bank the 90 remaining 2004 points into 2005 (you can't bank these again, they need to be used in 2005).
Use 150 2005 points
Borrow 42 2006 points, book same 2 bedroom.

You can have three years of points at any given time - but it does make it difficult to use all your points on a three year schedule. You'll need to buy the right number and take very consistant vacations.

 

[bavaria]

Well, I would point out that it IS doable from the West Coast. Before I got the travel job, I still went to WDW 4-6x/year. Granted, it's tougher with kids, but it's doable. I believe that WestJet is doing a YVR-MCO nonstop or you can do SEA-MCO nonstop on Alaska. (Taxes are far less flying out of the US, and I paid $300 total for first class on Alaska recently)

I too suggest the small resale contract - if you buy 50 points, you can use 150 points every 3 years by borrowing/banking. It also puts you in a position to add on through DVC in 25 point increments in future, or to buy another resale.

That way your intial financial committment is a lot lower, and you won't need to worry about excess points.

I highly recommend The Timeshare Store - you can call them and they will walk you through exactly how it works.

 

[ACDSNY]

We purchased a 100 point resale contract for the same situation. We figured if we couldn't make it to WDW every other year, we'd just use the points at DLR. We usually need a 2 bedroom when we go to WDW, but if it's DLR the rest of the family is on their own.

 

[Monkey Bum]

60 points at OKW to get a 2 bedroom for 5 nights every 3rd year with enough points for a 6th night in a studio.

You are using the same logic we did to make it work for us.

 

[Fellowship9798]

My best advice to a young couple is to get your parents to go with you to WDW and suggest that they buy into DVC. They will never have a problem getting the family together once they are DVC members. May I also suggest that you have the membership titled to you and your parents as joint tenants with right or survivorship.

To tell the truth we did recently travel to WDW and toured SSR with my parents and they did seem interested in the concept of DVC. But I don't think I could bring myself to push them on buying in any more than signing us all up for the tour (which I did). They just made a big investment in the small business they run so it's not the right time. If it's something they were interested in, that would be their decision entirely to make and offer to share with us. They did pay for the accomodations on this recent trip (rental house in Kissimmee) but I wouldn't ask for more.

I do like your thinking though! I certainly wouldn't turn it down if offered!

 

[Greysword]

There are some intangibles to consider in buying DVC as well. For instance, having a full kitchen is terrific and may save money on food while staying at the parks (I guess this is a money issue). In addition, you have a larger place to relax should you want to have a non-park day.

If you are a Disney nut, think of the prestige of being able to say you own a part of the World! Bragging rights are everything, you know, and proof of devotion by constantly feeding the Mouse is key as well!

I am certain they will open a DVC Resort a DL sometime, so you may want to wait or buy a smaller contract at WDW as suggested.

 

[bullpup12564]

I am not sure if this is the way to go. I was uncertian of becoming a DVC member so we just recently bought a 25 point Wilderness Lodge Resale. The broker told us that these small contracts were hard to get and often sell before they are posted so I fiqured just go ahead and buy it. I rationalized that this would be a few nights every other year and we could always pay cash or rent points for the additional nights.

I am already looking at the 150 point standard contracts for the wilderness lodge but feel more limited since I know feel like I should try to maintain the same use year of April.

 

[AlaskaMOM]

We live even more Northwestern than you, and also thought the once every 3 yrs was a good idea. The long travel times and larger than believable prices on airfare, as well as adjusting to the time difference was why we thought 1 longer trip was better than more shorter trips. We just purchased a 100 pts resale, and thought that 100 pts would work for the amount of time we could reasonably get for travel to that far of a distance. Resale was the way to go for us, the smaller upfront cost, as well as the lower mnt fees, and then the ability to bank and borrow for a combined total of 300 pts. So that is an option to consider, because the minimum for direct thru DVC: 450 pts can be a lot of vacation time (150 x 3) every 3 yrs to use as opposed to a smaller contract. The actual reason DVC looked so much better for us was because we are a family of 5 (DD16, DS15, DS10) and finding a room to fit 3 growing children was becoming difficult (and $$$$). Imagine fitting 2 adults 2 grown teens (both taller than Mom) and 1 lg. 9 yr old who is just shy of Mom's height (takes after Dad's 6' football player stature) in the PO riverside trundle room.
As for every 3 yrs:
we have the next 5 trips planned using pts from '05 -'15
8 day trip in Dec 2 BR @ OKW 2006 252 pts (90 '05 pts, 100 '06 pts, 62 '07 pts)
6 day trip in Dec 1BR @ OKW 2007 120 pts (38 '07 pts 82 '08 pts)
Trying to save $$ by using AP & DDE for 2 trips!
7 day trip in OCT 1 BR @ VWL(hopefully) 2009 214 pts (18 '08 pts 100 '09 96 '10 - just let the 4 pts drop or give away)
7-10 day trip for Spring Break Mar 2012 @ BWV or BCV (hopefully) (only 1 DS left @home) studio or 1 BR 200-300 pts
5-10 day trip Sept 2014 ( no kids, only 2 airfares!!!)
So I guess once the 2 older kids have moved on to college, we'll be implementing the once ever 2 1/2 - 3 yrs. I guess at first I want to cram more trips in w/ the kids while they're still here.

So to answer your question, nope I can't poke holes in your plan, Only poked holes in our own "once every 3 yrs" plan the pull to use those pts and to go, go, go to Disney was just too overpowering for us (me).

Good Luck with deciding what's best (or funnest )for your own family!

 

[dsneygirl]

I also agree with a smaller contract and buy resale. If you are not in a hurry you can contact The Timeshare Store and they will be on the lookout for you.

One of the reasons DH and I bought is because we can fly so cheap less than $100 return from Buffalo. If I had to pay $400+ for each family member I probably wouldn't be able to go as often.

Good luck, I think my DH (DisneyFunFan) had PM'd you.

 

[Fellowship9798]

JimC:

Thanks for the reply. You've got some pretty good analysis going on there! I've developed what is probably a very similar spreadsheet of my own, which seems like it covers the same ground.

I would actually picture a 2 week DVC vacation as maybe involving some non-Disney time as well. For example maybe start by staying a couple nights at Vero Beach to "unwind" before moving on-site. Then spending 1.5 weeks onsite but with a day or two here and there spent on off site activities such as Universal Studios, Sea World, Kennedy Space Center, etc. but returning to the home base of the DVC resort. This would make an AP admission not as good a choice as a longer term MYW pass, but then you wouldn't have the AP discounts to factor into the comparison.

As we all know, it's really tough to do a straight apples to apples comparision with DVC since the comparison for smaller value buyers is often really between staying in a studio or one bedroom in a DVC resort or a single room at a moderate. There's no dollar value for the extra luxury you gain by staying in the deluxe DVC accomodations. Most of us small fry buyers would never pay top dollar for a long vacation in a deluxe. A true comparison for many would really be the cost of DVC vs. the cost of a moderate reort plus some very personal value for the luxury and/or magic of staying in a nicer DVC resort.

Can you put a dollar figure on what the value of added luxury and "magic"? Maybe I'll have to and factor that into my spreadsheet too.

For arguements sake who would care to guess at putting a dollar value on their own personal feeling of worth of the difference between staying at say the Boardwalk or beach Club and Port Orleans Riverside? Anyone? Is it even possible? What's it worth to you?

Probably nobody will answer this question, but it came out as a stream of conciousness type of thing.

Good points. My take is that it really depends on a number of factors - what size unit, what season, what alternate accommodations you would seek and the DVC resort you buy. The example below assumes 3.2% annual fee inflation, 5.2% annual room rate inflation and a 6.6% annual opportunity cost on making the investment in DVC.

Let's assume you buy SSR for a two bedroom during magic season for two weeks every third year. You take your trips in late June because of school calendars. That requires 316 points times 2 weeks divided by three for 211 points purchased. Let's also assume an AP discount of 30% for any deluxe resort you would stay at (staying two weeks would probably make APs worthwhile for that year - particularly with the ability to buy a DDE card). If you bought with the referral discount and compared yourself to Wilderness Lodge (one of the least expensive deluxe resorts) my advice would be to put the money in the money market and pay for your rooms out of that fund. After 50 years there will still be money left over.

Same advice for a BCV resale compared to staying at the BC resort.

The numbers just don't work for those assumptions. But you need to factor in one resort room versus a 2 bedroom villa. You may also consider other benefits (although they may change and are not guaranteed) such as the DVC AP discount.

If you would like the spreadsheet to play with yourself just send me a PM. Because if you would not get an AP and could only get a 10% AAA discount on a room then the advice changes.

 

[Dean]

First, don't buy with the idea of using the points other places, it's just not a good value. I think every 3 years is tough but workable for the right person. Basically every 3 years is not always every 3 years depending on your use year. It does mean that you need to chose your use year more carefully based on when you can likely visit. For 2 weeks every 3 years, I would consider buying essentially the points I need or even a few less for maybe a 12 night stay Sunday to a week from Friday. You can always do a day or so on cash if needed occasionally.

However I feel many who are looking at every 3 years won't do so consistently and owning is not reasonable if you may lose points. Another options is to look at non DVC timeshares with or without a few DVC points to supplement your trips. For less money you could have a lot more options including for off years closer to your home.

 

[PKS44]

Not sure if this helps, but I always like to point out that the maximum number of points you can use for one vacation is not 3 years...it is 4...this is done by making your vacation start at the end of your Use Year and finishin in the beginning of the next Use Year.

Example: August Use Year--- vacation at the end of July 2005- use Aug 2003 points banked into Aug 2004 and use Aug 2004 points and any borrowed 2005 points as needed to book any days all the way through July 31, 2005. Then for days starting on August 1, 2005 and beyond use August 2005 points and borrow any necessary August 2006 points. Thus you have used points from 2003 2004 2005 and 2006 for one vacation. You can do it again in July 2009 with 2007-2010 points.