DVC value during divorce

[drusba]

As a general matter, if market (resale) value of any real property is actually an issue in a divorce proceeding, one can present evidence of what the resale value is, but just providing documents that state what others sold like property for may not itself be admissible evidence at any trial. What is likely needed is not just a lot resale information but an expert (who will not be cheap) who can testify as to what the fair market value likely is based on all that secondary evidence.

Also, the husband's testimony about what Disney supposedly told him will most likely not even be allowed into evidence both because it is inadmissible hearsay and it is obviously not what he was told. If the husband had a call with DVC/DVD, I am fairly certain no one told him, as he apparently claims, what his timeshares' market (resale) value was. The figures the husband claims he was given indicate what he was actually told was the current point cost (fairly close to $30,000 total for 150 points each, at SSR and AKV) for purchasing new contracts through DVD, which does not provide the current market (resale) value of the two contracts already owned. A best guess at resale value is about $15,000 per contract, making his 1/2 share worth no more than $7,500 per contract.

Also, it is unclear, from the lead post, who actually owns the property. I assume there is joint ownership, but then the husband's seeking $30,000 per contract makes even less sense since all he has to sell is a half share. If he is the only named owner on the deed, then you have more legal issues to try (which will also add to the legal costs). If he purchased while the two were married, it will likely be considered community property absent some agreement with the wife stating otherwise. I am assuming that he did not purchase them before marriage, which could arguably mean he gets to keep both timeshares, because if they have been married 24 years, the SSR and AKV contracts had to be purchased after they were married.

How property is to be divided in a divorce is best worked out by the parties in advance. If that cannot be done, a trial may be needed but understand that the costs will be hefty and the solution may not be the one desired, e.g., a lot of divorce courts when dealing with jointly owned property and the parties are unable to agree to a split, will just order that the property be sold in the market and the proceeds split.

 

[Brian Noble]

I assume there is joint ownership, but then the husband's seeking $30,000 per contract makes even less sense since all he has to sell is a half share

It sounds like the husband knows the wife wants both contracts, and is trying to over-value them to get more in compensating assets.

 

[2010dvcfan]

My sister is currently going through a contentious divorce in Michigan after 24 years and they both have lawyers. They have 2 DVC contracts, 150 points at SSR and 150 at AKV. She wants both since husband hasn’t been to Disney World in 10 years and has no interest in going. During those 10 years, she and/or her kids used the points or she let our brother use them.

Husband wants $60,000 for both contracts. He said he called Disney and was told each contract was worth $30,000. He has no proof, just his word. They didn’t even pay that much when they bought the contracts, so my sister had a good laugh at that. She called Disney and was told to check resale sites for approximate value. She did that and has screen shots of what contracts like hers are going for, which she included in her counter-proposal. Husband is contesting her screen shots as proof and now wants to each take a contract. They’ve been going back and forth on pretty much everything, so they’ve going to trial in September.

The contracts are really important to her. Going to Disney with her kids was one of the few bright spots in her marriage, so she plans to fight for them. Her husband knows this, so she thinks he’s using them to hurt her. She has no problem buying him out, but not at $60,000 for both. Her lawyer knows nothing about DVC, but she thinks showing the judge the resale values will be enough to give him a valuation amount to settle on.

For those who have experience with divorce and DVC, is a resale site good enough or accurate enough for a judge? Or any advice I can pass along to her? Thank you in advance.

If he wants them both and has already established they are worth a value of $60,000.00 let him have them and pay her $60,000.00 for them. She can then go buy new contracts of her choice when the divorce is final.

I found in my divorce as soon as I agreed to give up everything he wanted to take from me he lost all of his leverage. No matter what he asked for I said Ok. Sometimes the money you save in trial fees and emotional damage are worth just giving in, something to consider.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I wonder if DVC could divide a contract with a court order….

 

[crvetter]

I wonder if DVC could divide a contract with a court order….

They won't do that.

 

[DVCanadian]

If the husband thinks they are with $60k let HIM have them for that price.
Alternate: Just ask Disney how much they would buy them for vs what they are “worth”.
look at the ROFR thread for actual sales data.

 

[crisi]

But, my real advice to your sister is this: Don't argue over it---or, for that matter, much of anything. Let the court/mediator figure it out, because they will do so fairly overall. At the end of the day, she'll have about half of the couple's total marital assets, and the only question is in what form those take. The more arguing there is, the more time her lawyer is going to bill, and that just takes money out of her hands.

When my late brother in law divorced, we paid for the attorney because they were both broke idiots and we didn't want him paying spousal support - which she was going for - or have him responsible for her debts - which she wanted him to pay. We paid $1000 in attorney fees for a pair of $200 snowshoes that he sold at a garage sale for $20. (He also avoided support and her debts).

 

[crisi]

I wonder if DVC could divide a contract with a court order….

Nope, the solution for dividing real estate is sell it and split the cash. The court solution for "we can't agree on how much its worth" is sell it to find out and split the cash.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Nope, the solution for dividing real estate is sell it and split the cash. The court solution for "we can't agree on how much its worth" is sell it to find out and split the cash.

Right, but when it comes to stocks/bonds they just split the shares. You would think they could just split the points in the contract.

 

[lbwilliams]

Really wise advice from Brian Noble there. She can always re-buy either SSR or AKV very easily, let him take one and be saddled with yearly dues he may not even realize he'll be on the hook for. Let him have the satisfaction of thinking he pulled a fast one!

It's possible that these are grandfathered-in contracts so that she gets all the membership extras and is able to use them at Rivera, Cabins, ect. Buying in again will result in a loss of those privileges.

 

[Sammie]

I would take SSR, and let him have AKV. Dues are lower and points go further. Of course do not tell him that.

 

[lilsonicfan]

It's possible that these are grandfathered-in contracts so that she gets all the membership extras and is able to use them at Rivera, Cabins, ect. Buying in again will result in a loss of those privileges.

They may even be direct contracts and if so she still only needs to have one for the membership extras.

 

[drusba]

Right, but when it comes to stocks/bonds they just split the shares. You would think they could just split the points in the contract.

The court cannot legally split the points in the contracts to change each contract to two different DVC contracts. What is actually owned is not points, and the POS actually deems points to be nothing more than symbols of what is actually owned, and the points themselves are deemed to have no monetary value.

The ownership interest is the real estate interest, a percentage of the condominium unit, owned via a deed. The POS provides that such ownership interests cannot be changed except when the property is returned to DVD, either via its exercising a right of first refusal of a resale or otherwise, such as obtaining the real estate interest via a foreclosure. The divorce court has no power to order the split of the real estate interest absent express agreement of DVD to do so, something DVD would likely never agree to because if it does it once, others would claim it should be done whenever requested, while others might contend DVD's agreeing to do so is itself a violation of the POS.

If the parties request, the court could order one party to keep the SSR contract and the other party the AKV contract, but the court is not likely to do that if the parties will not agree on which contract each party will keep. Again, the easy solution for the court is to order a sale of both contracts and then split the proceeds.

 

[AstroBlasters]

The court cannot legally split the points in the contracts to change each contract to two different DVC contracts. What is actually owned is not points, and the POS actually deems points to be nothing more than symbols of what is actually owned, and the points themselves are deemed to have no monetary value.

The ownership interest is the real estate interest, a percentage of the condominium unit, owned via a deed. The POS provides that such ownership interests cannot be changed except when the property is returned to DVD, either via its exercising a right of first refusal of a resale or otherwise, such as obtaining the real estate interest via a foreclosure. The divorce court has no power to order the split of the real estate interest absent express agreement of DVD to do so, something DVD would likely never agree to because if it does it once, others would claim it should be done whenever requested, while others might contend DVD's agreeing to do so is itself a violation of the POS.

If the parties request, the court could order one party to keep the SSR contract and the other party the AKV contract, but the court is not likely to do that if the parties will not agree on which contract each party will keep. Again, the easy solution for the court is to order a sale of both contracts and then split the proceeds.

Interesting that a court order can force money out of a retirement plan without a penalty, but cannot split up a timeshare contract.

Given the ridiculous commission costs to sell a contract and the high closing costs to buy a new one, perhaps a “trust system” would make this a bit cleaner as well in the future.

 

[juliebee]

Have them look at this link- https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/selling/what-is-my-dvc-contract-worth/

 

[tom1944]

Interesting that a court order can force money out of a retirement plan without a penalty, but cannot split up a timeshare contract.

Given the ridiculous commission costs to sell a contract and the high closing costs to buy a new one, perhaps a “trust system” would make this a bit cleaner as well in the future.

A court order would allow the sale of the timeshare contract it just could not require the timeshare deed to be changed to separate assets. I am sure there could be assets held in a retirement plan that could be forced to sell in their entirety but not eligible to be turned into 2 different assets.

If I purchased a $10,000 T-Bill and was getting divorced would each party be granted a $5,000 T-Bill by turning the current T-bill into 2 new items with a new date and the same terms existing in the original?

 

[sethschroeder]

If they are worth $60k then she should say thank you I will give them to you and take the $60k.

I am half joking but talk to the lawyer.

In no realm are those contracts worth that.

 

[AstroBlasters]

A court order would allow the sale of the timeshare contract it just could not require the timeshare deed to be changed to separate assets. I am sure there could be assets held in a retirement plan that could be forced to sell in their entirety but not eligible to be turned into 2 different assets.

If I purchased a $10,000 T-Bill and was getting divorced would each party be granted a $5,000 T-Bill by turning the current T-bill into 2 new items with a new date and the same terms existing in the original?

Given that each bond is worth $100 a bond, it would be 100 bonds. So yes, it would be split into 50 tbills for each party and transferred from a joint account into an individual account or something similar. It would not have to be sold.

 

[Sandisw]

Given that each bond is worth $100 a bond, it would be 100 bonds. So yes, it would be split into 50 tbills for each party and transferred from a joint account into an individual account or something similar. It would not have to be sold.

Real estate is different and why splitting for DVC can’t be done that way. Since we own an undivided interest….and so, it’s all or nothing.

 

[gmi3804]

Real estate is different and why splitting for DVC can’t be done that way. Since we own an undivided interest….and so, it’s all or nothing.

Real estate is also a commodity, with constantly changing market values, unlike a cash-like holding.