DVC temporary policy rooms now between 4pm and 6pm?

[reddog21]

This. Again, I was completely understanding in 2020 and 2021. We are now 2 years out. Not being able to find staff is no longer a valid excuse. It's been worn out.

Sorry but finding quality help is still a valid excuse for most companies even after 2 years. It used to take the company I work for a couple of weeks to find warehouse help, now it takes months.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

There may have been a time in summer 2020 when DVC resorts were fully staffed thanks to a surplus of layoff recalls. But people leave. I don't have any insight on how Disney juggles work assignments for its labor pool, but new hires would be sent to the area with the greatest need.

If the likes of SSR or OKW drops to 90% or 80% of optimal workforce, they aren't going to get any new hires if other resorts are at 70%.

So what you are saying is that I can expect a credit of around 20-30% of my housekeeping charges for 2022? Because from what I have heard as of the end of 2021 we are supposed to be at 100% staffing (per Bob Chapek).

 

[Brett Wyman]

Speaking for myself, I would be willing to pay an extra $.30/point if that meant that our rooms would be guaranteed by 3pm (what they USED to be before they moved it to 4pm) rather then pushing 6pm or later. That would be worth it to me. But I would NOT be willing to pay it just to have our rooms still not ready. Remember the ink is barely dry on the cost increases we absorbed for housekeeping to get significant raises (which I was also in favor of).

But bottom line is if the staffing level is not sufficient to meet the level of service, then the staffing level needs to be adjusted. If the cost for meeting the service level is unreasonable, then Disney needs to look at the efficiency of their housekeeping services and look at outsourcing to someone who can do it better or change to another vendor if they are already doing that or bring it in house if they can do it better. But to be clear: We owners are paying for a service. It is incumbent upon Disney to determine the most efficient and cost effective way of providing that service to the expected level to us and we are expected to pay any reasonable costs within that structure.



This. Again, I was completely understanding in 2020 and 2021. We are now 2 years out. Not being able to find staff is no longer a valid excuse. It's been worn out. We not only pay for housekeeping, but this last year I don't think we even got a discount back for closures like we did in 2020. We are paying our full housekeeping bill. What we paid in 2019 and they were able to do the job then. If they are shorting us people but charging us the same amount, that's a problem.

If they are not shorting us people and we have the same staff as we did in 2019, then this is all related to the increased protocols. Which is fine.... Be honest with us and tell us because of COVID, costs for housekeeping are going to go up by 25 cents. We are reasonable people. We understand that covid protocols cost more. Give us some votes in 2023 on whether we want to keep the increased cleaning. I kinda like remotes being cleaned (although I don't need a baggie, but whatever). OR maybe we vote to go back to 2019 levels. Either way, the rooms should be ready on time and the costs associated with making that happen are the costs. If Disney is not being good stewards of our money and finding the most cost effective means of meeting the objective, that too is a problem. If they are doing their best to keep the costs reasonable, then it is what it is. Get the job done.

Just like COVID, inflation, over priced new and used cars, and inflated housing prices, you just cant wish it away because "Its been 2 years".

https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/o...aling-with-staffing-shortages-due-to-covid-19
https://www.wesh.com/article/staffing-shortage-hotel-industry/38669738
https://www.businessinsider.com/lab...-drove-hours-make-beds-florida-orlando-2022-1
https://www.mynews13.com/fl/orlando/news/2021/12/08/ucf-hospitality-survey
https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2021/04/21/hospitality-industry-s-latest-problem.html

 

[TinkB278]

And ya, a 6pm check in time is completely unreasonable, especially for a location that attracts and caters to young children. I haven’t seen a single hotel with such a late checkin time

Exactly. So many of these people saying “what’s the big deal with a 6 pm check in” don’t have small children.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Just like COVID, inflation, and inflated housing prices, you just cant wish it away because "Its been 2 years".

Okay, but riddle me this... Chapek said they are not operating at 100% BECAUSE of staffing.

Specifically he said (on 2/9/2022)
“the two areas that have been difficult is hospitality, and right now we’ve got 90% of our hotels at Walt Disney world open, all hotels at Disneyland open, and all sorts of cooks, short-order cooks. The capacity constraints are self-imposed capacity constraints and are really a function of our food and beverage sort of mitigation, if you will…because people spend a long time in our parks and Resorts, the food and beverage component is a big one.”

He did not specifically mention the housekeeper shortage, which we addressed a couple weeks ago in this post. That’s a significant impediment for resort occupancy, and is one reason hotels aren’t filling all of their rooms. The causes of the current labor shortages are multifaceted, and the analysis in the above post more or less applies to both housekeepers and cooks.

You can't have it both ways. Either you are not meeting service levels because you are operating above your staffing capacity, or you have limited capacity to meet staffing. WHICH ONE IS IT? Is Bob lying? Are we understaffed? Will that be reflected in our dues?

If not, and we are operating at 100% capacity, then we should have priority on staffing to meet that demand and reasonably our dues should reflect that.

 

[tjkraz]

Remember the ink is barely dry on the cost increases we absorbed for housekeeping to get significant raises (which I was also in favor of).

The raises to bring workers up to $15 were sooooo 2018. It's a whole new world now. They're advertising $17 and (apparently) still under staffed.

But bottom line is if the staffing level is not sufficient to meet the level of service, then the staffing level needs to be adjusted. If the cost for meeting the service level is unreasonable, then Disney needs to look at the efficiency of their housekeeping services and look at outsourcing to someone who can do it better or change to another vendor if they are already doing that or bring it in house if they can do it better.

So we're looking for an outsourced vendor who has the resources to clean 30,000 hotel rooms daily, and do it cheaper and better than Disney...

But to be clear: We owners are paying for a service. It is incumbent upon Disney to determine the most efficient and cost effective way of providing that service to the expected level to us and we are expected to pay any reasonable costs within that structure.

The tough part is that we don't have any meaningful information, pre-pandemic or post-pandemic, to use as the basis for this discussion. You had two late check-ins in a 3-day span at one resort. Is that representative of the "new norm" or just an unfortunate coincidence? We've done 5 DVC check ins since the pandemic started. One was a late arrival, but in the other 4 cases, rooms were always ready before 4pm. (Admittedly that success influences my views.)

Both Jambo and Kidani have hundreds of rooms. Surely the staff wasn't twiddling their thumbs from 8am - 4pm. Against odds, you drew the short straw twice. Yes, it stinks. I just don't know if it's reason enough to conclude that Disney is failing miserably and/or that we should all throw a lot more money at the problem.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Fascinating debate. Obviously, there will never be universal agreement on the topic or probably even a consensus reached. Maybe some of it is just semantics. The real issue, from my perspective, is not when you can "check-in" for your room, but when you can actually possess the room. Heck, you can begin checking in for a room the minute you make a reservation.

Given you can "check-in" any time, it would seem reasonable to then interpret that you should take possession of the room at 4:00 PM.

 

[Nappy1380]

Nah.
If you did online checkin, you saw this.

View attachment 649126

Begins is the key word.



You can call them and you can redo online checkin to show a later arrival time. I've arrived at POR at 2am, and my room from the day before was there waiting for us. We had let them know of our late arrival.

I think that if you don't show up, don't do online checkin, never call them, and don't go to the front desk, you stand a chance of them giving it away, but at least for that first full day (~4pm to 11?am) the room is yours.

Correct, people can begin checking it at 4PM and should not expect the be able to before that time. I have yet to see any disclaimer anywhere that stipulates that check-in times are subject to room readiness/availability unless it is associated with attempting to check in prior to 4PM.

Having a room not be available here and there is totally acceptable, the issue really comes from the OP being told that 6PM is going to be the temporary (and potentially permanent) time. If that's the case, then what's to stop this same scenario from playing out and having 7PM or 8PM be when rooms are ready? Is it a bit tinfoil hat, sure. Is it out of the realm of possibility in today's world, absolutely not.

 

[Brett Wyman]

Okay, but riddle me this... Chapek said they are not operating at 100% BECAUSE of staffing.

Specifically he said (on 2/9/2022)
“the two areas that have been difficult is hospitality, and right now we’ve got 90% of our hotels at Walt Disney world open, all hotels at Disneyland open, and all sorts of cooks, short-order cooks. The capacity constraints are self-imposed capacity constraints and are really a function of our food and beverage sort of mitigation, if you will…because people spend a long time in our parks and Resorts, the food and beverage component is a big one.”

He did not specifically mention the housekeeper shortage, which we addressed a couple weeks ago in this post. That’s a significant impediment for resort occupancy, and is one reason hotels aren’t filling all of their rooms. The causes of the current labor shortages are multifaceted, and the analysis in the above post more or less applies to both housekeepers and cooks.

You can't have it both ways. Either you are not meeting service levels because you are operating above your staffing capacity, or you have limited capacity to meet staffing. WHICH ONE IS IT? Is Bob lying? Are we understaffed? Will that be reflected in our dues?

If not, and we are operating at 100% capacity, then we should have priority on staffing to meet that demand and reasonably our dues should reflect that.

This is obviously a hill you are willing to die on so I don't know what else to say. I do wish you luck on your next check in though.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

The raises to bring workers up to $15 were sooooo 2018. It's a whole new world now. They're advertising $17 and (apparently) still under staffed.



So we're looking for an outsourced vendor who has the resources to clean 30,000 hotel rooms daily, and do it cheaper and better than Disney...



The tough part is that we don't have any meaningful information, pre-pandemic or post-pandemic, to use as the basis for this discussion. You had two late check-ins in a 3-day span at one resort. Is that representative of the "new norm" or just an unfortunate coincidence? We've done 5 DVC check ins since the pandemic started. One was a late arrival, but in the other 4 cases, rooms were always ready before 4pm. (Admittedly that success influences my views.)

Both Jambo and Kidani have hundreds of rooms. Surely the staff wasn't twiddling their thumbs from 8am - 4pm. Against odds, you drew the short straw twice. Yes, it stinks. I just don't know if it's reason enough to conclude that Disney is failing miserably and/or that we should all throw a lot more money at the problem.

Which brings me back the original question in my post.... I was told by the front desk that the policy was being changed from 4pm to 4pm-6pm. Which IMPLIES it's not just me or a few people but enough that they are changing the policy.

 

[Sandisw]

Which brings me back the original question in my post.... I was told by the front desk that the policy was being changed from 4pm to 4pm-6pm. Which IMPLIES it's not just me or a few people but enough that they are changing the policy.

And if you think about that statement, it would also imply that the 4 pm time was supposed to be room ready or else there would be no reason to now make it a 2 hour window.

 

[Nappy1380]

With all due respect that’s just an ignorant statement. There are labor shortages everywhere right now affecting all levels of employment. Everything isn’t a conspiracy. Sometimes it just it what it is.

To be fair then, you also have to be open to the idea that management is looking to make the change to 6PM just to cut cost, because with current Disney leadership and moves they've made in all aspects since re-opneing.....it just is what it is (less bang for more $$).

 

[Brett Wyman]

To be fair then, you also have to be open to the idea that management is looking to make the changed to 6PM just to cut cost, because with current Disney leadership and moves they've made in all aspects since re-opneing.....it just is what it is (less bang for more $$).

Yeah thats definitely something Chapek would love to do. But I doubt they will because that is REALLY outside of industry standards. And it's also completely independent of the fact that there are shortages right now.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

And if you think about that statement, it would also imply that the 4 pm time was supposed to be room ready or else there would be no reason to now make it a 2 hour window.

That's a good point. She specifically said they were changing it to a window between 4pm to 6pm. Which I would read as meaning that it was not a windows before that (an often used argument). They have either decided to put in writing a maximum time (which I doubt) or they were clarifying the language because many people (including us and them) ready it as by 4pm.

To be fair then, you also have to be open to the idea that management is looking to make the changed to 6PM just to cut cost, because with current Disney leadership and moves they've made in all aspects since re-opneing.....it just is what it is (less bang for more $$).

Which I mean... okay.... but
1. Are we going to get an opportunity to vote on that? Are the cash rooms being equivalently moved back? I would LOVE to see Disney tell cash guests that check in is at 6pm (or even 5pm since right now they are an hour earlier).
2. If Disney is saving money, by writ of contract we are saving money. Are our dues going down? Or at least not going up? Tell us how much you are saving us Bobby! I might accept an hour if you tell me how you are going to make me rich like you!

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Yeah thats definitely something Chapek would love to do. But I doubt they will because that is REALLY outside of industry standards. And it's also completely independent of the fact that there are shortages right now.

The problem is DVC is a different animal. They are NOT moving cash resorts (AFAIK) to a 5pm check-in. It would be interesting if they did. But they are not. This is just DVC.

I don't see what motivation Chapek would have to specifically lower DVC housekeeping costs since he doesn't pay for it - we do. In theory it shouldn't line Disney's pockets except for a few penny's (the percentage of points that Disney retains) and most of the cost savings would have to be passed onto us.

in which case I am really looking forward to our next DVC bulletin about all the new and exciting benefits we are going to be getting with the additional savings.

 

[tgropp]

This is obviously a hill you are willing to die on so I don't know what else to say. I do wish you luck on your next check in though.

For everyone that is happy to think that it is OK for Disney to have 6 PM checking in times well after 4 PM, please state on your online checkin form that a late check in for Your Room Reservation is OK with you and that you will be happy that people can get their 4/-5 PM checkin times before you because you think that it’s acceptable. That way everyone is happy

 

[Brian Noble]

Chapek said they are not operating at 100% BECAUSE of staffing.

And that's true of the cash resorts. The DVC resorts do not have that discretion, because they are owned by the Members collectively. This is why the DVC resorts opened for Member stays before the Parks were even opened. For all we know, the DVC resorts do have priority in hiring new staff because of this, but that doesn't make it easy.

I was told by the front desk that the policy was being changed from 4pm to 4pm-6pm. Which IMPLIES it's not just me or a few people but enough that they are changing the policy.

Front-line service folks are somewhat notorious for making things up to deflect a customer who is or might become angry at them for something they didn't do or couldn't control---in this case, the progress (or lack thereof) of housekeeping.

I doubt very much that the first anyone has heard of a policy change in DVC check-in times is going to be from a front-line CM making a one-off comment.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

As policy? I have not heard of that change. I'd find it inappropriate to make that change.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Front-line service folks are somewhat notorious for making things up to deflect a customer who is or might become angry at them for something they didn't do or couldn't control---in this case, the progress (or lack thereof) of housekeeping.

I doubt very much that the first anyone has heard of a policy change in DVC check-in times is going to be from a front-line CM making a one-off comment.

Which is (again) what started this - my asking if anyone else had heard this. That *is* the intent of the '?' on the thread. Did you not notice?

Plus as I mentioned, she was still earning her ears. If you'll excuse me quoting myself....
"Has anyone heard that? She was still earning her ears, so not sure if that is accurate. I have not seen any official communication. "

Really, this conversation is going to take a while if you don't read the original post.

 

[sethschroeder]

new hires would be sent to the area with the greatest need.

Which is a Disney issue not a DVC issue.

Sorry we paid for full staffing then give us full staffing or give us a separate bucket of employees, lets pay them well (0.01 or 0.02 per point extra) and make sure we get the best/keep them.