DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss.

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I really hope DVC doesn’t add reCaptcha to bookings - imagine being on the west coast, getting up at 5am and trying to book and prove you’re a human by marking all the squares with bicycles (or whatever) - remember, everything that DVC does to make booking more complex for ‘them’ is also going to make booking more complex for ‘us’.

With the modern reCAPTCHA you only see it if you are misidentified as a bot. Most of the time the system can figure out you are a human and not present the damn picture. The sites where I work do this with a very low false postive rate.

 

[DonMacGregor]

So let me get this straight. DVC publicly states that they have created a separate, dedicated operating group within MA/MS, tasked with ferreting out commercial renters, and further states it’s important enough to them to “go after it” with this dedicated team, yet we’re going to operate on the assumption (based on rainbows and unicorns I guess), that the issue is not, in fact, widespread and maybe only affects < 1% of reservations and is therefore of di minimis importance.

“The other category is someone who is doing it commercially. They own a lot of points and it’s a frequent occurrence. We are actively figuring out ways to go after that, and stop that to the best of our ability. Hopefully this is not a conversation we will be having in future years. We’re going to go after that and try to remedy it as best we can."

“Senior Vice President and General Manager Bill Diercksen confirmed that Disney Vacation Club has "added resources to our core team at DVC in order to pursue this and make sure that it is fair" to everyday members. According to Yvonne Chang, Executive Director, Business Operations "[w]e’ve got a whole team of folks focused on this. Hopefully by next year when we have this conversation, we will see some improvement.”

“Added resources” and “whole team of folks focused on this”, for an issue that’s so small as to really amount to nothing more than a nothing burger. Someone better be sending letters to DVC demanding to find out just how much this wild goose chase by this “whole team of folks” is costing us.

Also, if it’s no big deal, what “improvement” was Yvonne Chang hoping to see?

 

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Also, my motivation for being so against mass renting and spec renting is basically gone as I’ve offloaded the two offending contracts and rarely have trouble getting the dates at my last one. If they ever actually fix the rental problem, maybe I’d buy back in, but honestly rentals are so cheap and convenient right now that I can’t imagine I would. I don’t need to make up any motivations or what if scenarios, I’m not hiding my true intentions. Hi IMMkXLVI.

Point us to a post in this thread where someone thinks that is going to happen.

Did not even have to go back a page.

 

[Mouseforward]

So let me get this straight. DVC publicly states that they have created a separate, dedicated operating group within MA/MS, tasked with ferreting out commercial renters, and further states it’s important enough to them to “go after it” with this dedicated team, yet we’re going to operate on the assumption (based on rainbows and unicorns I guess), that the issue is not, in fact, widespread and maybe only affects < 1% of reservations and is therefore of di minimis importance.

“Senior Vice President and General Manager Bill Diercksen confirmed that Disney Vacation Club has "added resources to our core team at DVC in order to pursue this and make sure that it is fair" to everyday members. According to Yvonne Chang, Executive Director, Business Operations "[w]e’ve got a whole team of folks focused on this. Hopefully by next year when we have this conversation, we will see some improvement.”


“Added resources” and “whole team of folks focused on this”, for an issue that’s so small as to really amount to nothing more than a nothing burger. Someone better be sending letters to DVC demanding to find out just how much this wild goose chase by this “whole team of folks” is costing us.

Also, if it’s no big deal, what “improvement” was Yvonne Chang hoping to see?

To be fair they said that a year ago, and we did not see an improvement.

 

[GoingSince1990]

The thing that would actually solve all of this, which they're not going to do because the entire membership would have a temper tantrum, is dramatically raise the price of Studios and lower the price of 1 bedrooms.

A properly-balanced points chart would have rooms that are equally difficult to book across room types and points seasons. If it's too hard to get a Studio, Studios are too cheap. If it's too hard to book in December, December is too cheap, etc.

ETA: They obviously couldn't do this across resorts because Saratoga Springs is never going to book as quickly as Beach Club, but within the home resort booking window, pricing should be restructured to mitigate disproportionate demand.

Yes, any of us with a basic understanding of economics appreciates that when a product is underpriced, problems will arise when many rush to grab that product at the artificially low price. Studios should be more expensive and 1BRs should be cheaper, for starters, but my guess is that even if DVC wanted to do this, they are somewhat handicapped by the fact that their salespeople have told thousands of buyers “Look! If you buy X Points that can get you a studio for Y nights!” to get them to sign on the dotted line, and if the studios become more expensive many of these buyers might get angry.

 

[muppets3d]

Did not even have to go back a page.

I guess I missed where they said they were trying to book an AKL value studio or a Riviera tower studio or whatever other low point room you were talking about.

 

[muppets3d]

Yes, any of us with a basic understanding of economics appreciates that when a product is underpriced, problems will arise when many rush to grab that product at the artificially low price. Studios should be more expensive and 1BRs should be cheaper, for starters, but my guess is that even if DVC wanted to, they are somewhat handicapped by the fact that their salespeople have told thousands of buyers “Look! If you buy X Points that can get you a studio for Y nights!” to get them to sign on the dotted line, and if the studios become more expensive many of these buyers might get angry.

"But we made 1 bedrooms cheaper" isn't a great consolation when they already don't have enough points to book the room they used to book...yeah I agree, this would be a tough thing for DVC to sell to members.

 

[Tatebeck]

To be fair they said that a year ago, and we did not see an improvement.

They said that only 6 months ago, and stated "hopefully by next year when we have this conversation, we will see some improvement."

So it would be fair to say that you should wait until at least December before you can say there was no improvement

 

[DonMacGregor]

To be fair they said that a year ago, and we did not see an improvement.

To be accurate, they said it six months ago.

 

[Mouseforward]

Yes, any of us with a basic understanding of economics appreciates that when a product is underpriced, problems will arise when many rush to grab that product at the artificially low price. Studios should be more expensive and 1BRs should be cheaper, for starters, but my guess is that even if DVC wanted to do this, they are somewhat handicapped by the fact that their salespeople have told thousands of buyers “Look! If you buy X Points that can get you a studio for Y nights!” to get them to sign on the dotted line, and if the studios become more expensive many of these buyers might get angry.

Here is the real economic example - BWV - 10pt for a studio 24pt for a 1br -- a 1 br takes up the same space as 2 studios in the hotel. But that brings up the real problem - They added a 5th person to the studio that was not present when it opened - so now a 1br sleeps 4 for 24 points , and 2 studios sleep 10 for 20 points. What does the large family do ?

And we wonder why we cant get a studio ..

 

[TCRAIG]

So let me get this straight. DVC publicly states that they have created a separate, dedicated operating group within MA/MS, tasked with ferreting out commercial renters, and further states it’s important enough to them to “go after it” with this dedicated team, yet we’re going to operate on the assumption (based on rainbows and unicorns I guess), that the issue is not, in fact, widespread and maybe only affects < 1% of reservations and is therefore of di minimis importance.




“Added resources” and “whole team of folks focused on this”, for an issue that’s so small as to really amount to nothing more than a nothing burger. Someone better be sending letters to DVC demanding to find out just how much this wild goose chase by this “whole team of folks” is costing us.

Also, if it’s no big deal, what “improvement” was Yvonne Chang hoping to see?

Maybe the whole team of dedicated team members determined that it was only 1% of owners that would be conservatively labeled as commercial and that adding the renter indicator to bookings is their broad response that will allow them to start approaching the 1%ers.

 

[xdan0920]

To be accurate, they said it six months ago.

And since then we have seen an update on what they consider to be personal use.

Seems like they are making progress. Step 2, enforcement.

 

[WinterSolider]

"But we made 1 bedrooms cheaper" isn't a great consolation when they already don't have enough points to book the room they used to book...yeah I agree, this would be a tough thing for DVC to sell to members.

Except they couldn't book it because it was selling out at 8:00:05 11 months in advance.

Being able to confidently book 7 nights at 10 months is more valuable than being able to maybe book 8 nights at 11 months if you just so happened to win the fastest finger lottery on your booking day.

 

[IMMkXLVI]

Yes, any of us with a basic understanding of economics appreciates that when a product is underpriced, problems will arise when many rush to grab that product at the artificially low price. Studios should be more expensive and 1BRs should be cheaper, for starters, but my guess is that even if DVC wanted to do this, they are somewhat handicapped by the fact that their salespeople have told thousands of buyers “Look! If you buy X Points that can get you a studio for Y nights!” to get them to sign on the dotted line, and if the studios become more expensive many of these buyers might get angry.

Get angry all you like. Prices will rise, politicians will philander and you too will grow old.

I disagree, the powers that be at DVC don't give a red penny about the blowback if they increase point costs. If the law allows it, if the contracts permit it, then it is on the table along with any other measure.

 

[muppets3d]

Except they couldn't book it because it was selling out at 8:00:05 11 months in advance.

Being able to confidently book 7 nights at 10 months is more valuable than being able to maybe book 8 nights at 11 months if you just so happened to win the fastest finger lottery on your booking day.

The number of room types across DVC that consistently sell out at 8:00:05 at 11 months is very small - you can count them on one hand.

 

[Mouseforward]

Except they couldn't book it because it was selling out at 8:00:05 11 months in advance.

Being able to confidently book 7 nights at 10 months is more valuable than being able to maybe book 8 nights at 11 months if you just so happened to win the fastest finger lottery on your booking day.

I agree, but you don’t learn that until after you purchased the points.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Maybe the whole team of dedicated team members determined that it was only 1% of owners that would be conservatively labeled as commercial and that adding the renter indicator to bookings is their broad response that will allow them to start approaching the 1%ers.

Except the “1%” was pulled out of someone’s ### on here. Disney has made no public comments regarding their progress (hence all the posts asking if it was brought up at any quarterly meetings).

 

[IMMkXLVI]

I agree, but you don’t learn that until after you purchased the points.

This was the very query I raised with our sales agent.
I had asked for access to see the system live before buying but he couldn't do it.

He just showed me the points chart. I couldn't see availability. Not sure it would have mattered.
I didn't fully understand the 7/11 reservation window and with our kids school being year round
I knew we would probably have no issues getting reservations since we can book around the summer.
My wife doesn't want to be at Disney for Christmas/New Year so I don't need to worry about booking it.

My bucket list would be Halloween.

 

[Mouseforward]

This was the very query I raised with our sales agent.
I had asked for access to see the system live before buying but he couldn't do it.

He just showed me the points chart. I couldn't see availability. Not sure it would have mattered.
I didn't fully understand the 7/11 reservation window and with our kids school being year round
I knew we would probably have no issues getting reservations since we can book around the summer.
My wife doesn't want to be at Disney for Christmas/New Year so I don't need to worry about booking it.

My bucket list would be Halloween.

Even with DVC which I think we can, all agree is the best of the timeshares. Buyer ignorance is a frequently used sales tool.

 

[WinterSolider]

The number of room types across DVC that consistently sell out at 8:00:05 at 11 months is very small - you can count them on one hand.

Obviously I was being flippant to illustrate a point. Raising the price of studios is obviously a tradeoff between "slightly more expensive" and "easier to book." I don't think it's crazy to say that owners should be able to book Studios at their home resort at, gasp, 9 months!

The slightly-less-unpopular route they should go is to be more aggressive with repricing the seasons over the course of the year rather than repricing Studios relative to 1BRs.