DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss.

So I can’t say what the average owner does, but clearly you can since you proceeded to do so right after telling me I can’t. I think you over value your own opinion.

What opinion of mine do you think is incorrect? That the average owner has 200 points or less? That the average owner stays in a studio? That the average owner doesn't rent points out? I don't want to really derail this thread, but with a little research, 2 of the 3 are pretty obvious with numbers.
 
Evidence by what? Your opinion? Both statues apply and there’s nothing written that says otherwise.
Not the entire chapter of 718, the subsection that specifically prohibits managing entities from placing restrictions on condominium owners right to rent without the owners agreeing to the changes. I don’t recall the number. (It’s just saying “you cannot restrict me without consent”)
 
Not the entire chapter of 718, the subsection that specifically prohibits managing entities from placing restrictions on condominium owners right to rent without the owners agreeing to the changes. I don’t recall the number.
There is nothing in that section that that states it excludes timeshare condominiums

And if you look at the regulations for single-family home HOAs in Florida, there is specific text that excludes short term rentalswith regards to rental rules. So it’s reasonable to conclude had they wanted to exclude timeshare condominiums they would’ve specified.
 

Strong statement here….There is absolutely no way that DVC is going to spend their money to scan park photos and the like to determine this.
I have no idea whether DVC would bother to do this or not, but it would be done by AI. In theory, it (AI) could constantly crawl around the data related to frequent bookers or flagged accounts looking for, well, anything it wanted. One human could monitor the whole thing and evaluate the results to decide whether further action was warranted.

I know Disney's IT is the butt of many jokes, but I've got to assume Disney is following the same path as airports, professional sports arenas, etc, and adopting facial recognition technology to streamline the park experience even further. (I don't need to scan anything when I enter my local MLB stadium. It knows who I am and whether I have a ticket.) That info, combined with DVC bots monitoring reservations (and reservation holders), would give DVC all the info they need, assuming they have some policy/goal in mind re:rentals.
 
What opinion of mine do you think is incorrect? That the average owner has 200 points or less? That the average owner stays in a studio? That the average owner doesn't rent points out? I don't want to really derail this thread, but with a little research, 2 of the 3 are pretty obvious with numbers.
Simply dividing the total available points by the total owners put it between 2000 to 300 per owner as an average. So I do disagree with. that part of your opinion.

I doubt that we would have two major rental services in existence for decades if a significant portion of DVC owners chose not to rent.

I would also point out that if what you’re saying is true and that the majority of renters rent Studios. Then the whole argument is moot since you’re claiming that the majority owners would act just like renters and rent Studios. Therefore, it shouldn’t matter who owns the points.
 
There is nothing in that section that that states it excludes timeshare condominiums

And if you look at the regulations for single-family home HOAs in Florida, there is specific text that excludes short term rentalswith regards to rental rules. So it’s reasonable to conclude had they wanted to exclude timeshare condominiums they would’ve specified.
It’s not excluding, it’s superseded by the duty of the managing entity in 721 to protect the rights of the membership as a whole in regard to the use and enjoyment of the facilities.
 
I have no idea whether DVC would bother to do this or not, but it would be done by AI. In theory, it (AI) could constantly crawl around the data related to frequent bookers or flagged accounts looking for, well, anything it wanted. One human could monitor the whole thing and evaluate the results to decide whether further action was warranted.

I know Disney's IT is the butt of many jokes, but I've got to assume Disney is following the same path as airports, professional sports arenas, etc, and adopting facial recognition technology to streamline the park experience even further. (I don't need to scan anything when I enter my local MLB stadium. It knows who I am and whether I have a ticket.) That info, combined with DVC bots monitoring reservations (and reservation holders), would give DVC all the info they need, assuming they have some policy/goal in mind re:rentals.
You don't even need to scan anything to get back in to the United States after a closed loop cruise, or from anywhere if you have Global Entry. I think it's a valid assumption such technology will be available for many such purposes.
 
Random direction- Does paying taxes on rental income, deem it a commercial purpose?
Let's play devil's advocate. Not reporting rental income and paying associated taxes would not make it non-commercial. So I would say whether you properly report the income is inconsequential as to whether DVC deems the usage of the ownership a commercial purpose.
 
It’s not excluding, it’s superseded by the duty of the managing entity in 721 to protect the rights of the membership as a whole in regard to the use and enjoyment of the facilities.
That’s an Olympic size stretch. I would rely on the 721 stated requirement that any rental restrictions be specified over any interpretation like that.
 
Random direction- Does paying taxes on rental income, deem it a commercial purpose?
I would say not necessarily. You have to pay taxes on all income, not just ‘commercial’ income. I would say not paying tax on rental income would be much worse. I’d rather be in trouble with Disney than the IRS.

However, filing income tax from a *LLC* renting points out could relatively easily be considered commercial use.
 
I would say not necessarily. You have to pay taxes on all income, not just ‘commercial’ income. I would say not paying tax on rental income would be much worse. I’d rather be in trouble with Disney than the IRS.

However, filing income tax from a *LLC* renting points out could relatively easily be considered commercial use.
In general, just creating an LLC to purchase points kinda of smacks of a business. Which is why they specifically restricted Llc’s on who could be listed on the reservation.

I accept trusts as an estate planning tool, (not that I think it’s worth it for most) but I don’t get the purpose behind creating an LLC to own your points other than to avoid the 4000 point rule.
 
In general, just creating an LLC to purchase points kinda of smacks of a business. Which is why they specifically restricted Llc’s on who could be listed on the reservation.

I accept trusts as an estate planning tool, (not that I think it’s worth it for most) but I don’t get the purpose behind creating an LLC to own your points other than to avoid the 4000 point rule.
Oh absolutely. I think the problem is that some trusts are set up as LLCs which means it’s harder to do an outright blanket ban on them. And yes trusts can be a good estate planning tool, but I’m not sure that they’re a great tool for owning a timeshare. Might be a good way to “set it and forget it” by placing $50k or so in the trust alongside the contract and have the interest/dividends off the cash as a way to pay the dues, but I’m sure there’s better ways of handling it.
 
Oh absolutely. I think the problem is that some trusts are set up as LLCs which means it’s harder to do an outright blanket ban on them. And yes trusts can be a good estate planning tool, but I’m not sure that they’re a great tool for owning a timeshare. Might be a good way to “set it and forget it” by placing $50k or so in the trust alongside the contract and have the interest/dividends off the cash as a way to pay the dues, but I’m sure there’s better ways of handling it.
When I did my estate planning and we went through all the options and tax implications. We came up with the same conclusion. The only benefit to a trust is that the terms are kept private unlike a will. The negatives are continual paperwork and the trust would make it more difficult ( but not impossible) for my heirs to just reject the timeshares if for some reason they were at a negative value.
 
Oh absolutely. I think the problem is that some trusts are set up as LLCs which means it’s harder to do an outright blanket ban on them. And yes trusts can be a good estate planning tool, but I’m not sure that they’re a great tool for owning a timeshare. Might be a good way to “set it and forget it” by placing $50k or so in the trust alongside the contract and have the interest/dividends off the cash as a way to pay the dues, but I’m sure there’s better ways of handling it.
I spent about a half hour internally debating the value of placing the DVC points in a trust, and decided it was way too much effort for too little benefit.
 
Let's play devil's advocate. Not reporting rental income and paying associated taxes would not make it non-commercial. So I would say whether you properly report the income is inconsequential as to whether DVC deems the usage of the ownership a commercial purpose.
This is just a question that I don't know the answer to. I would assume that the rental companies 1099 renters after a certain dollar figure is reached, right? If so, the main people in this group would be the social media (i.e. Facebook) renters?
 



















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