DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss!

[lowlight]

Maybe us normal members should start a lawsuit against DVCMC for not enforcing the contract against commercial renters.

It would certainly be easier for our side to show real losses due to the contract not being enforced than it would for commercial renters to show harm.

 

[toesmom]

As an owner of points at BWV and SSR I am happy that they have made this decision, it is extremely difficult to book BWV standard view, yet I see consecutive single night reservations available for rent consistently. I really do hope that this type of mass commercial renting is stopped. I didn't think I would be competing for same rooms as commercial renters whose business is DVC Rentals.

 

[Sandisw]

I do have that card and am aware of the changes. I don't use their lounges often but I'm not even sure that that they have an overcrowding problem - seems more like greed. It sounds from the chatter you read, that it is an issue sometimes or maybe in some locations.

I actually used both the Amex Centurion Lounge and the Capital One lounge in Vegas recently on the same day. The Amex was packed and had a 15-minute wait, while the Capital One lounge (which was super nice) had no wait and was maybe at 30% capacity when I walked in and 70% capacity when I left. I also used the CO lounge in Denver once and it was busy but had no wait. The Amex lounge in Denver is always packed.

The only lounge I have used with my Venture X thst has had crowds is Terminal 4 @ JFK…and that was during late afternoons when those international flyers were getting their first night flights.

Even the ones at MCO have never been crowded to capacity

 

[PlutoNotPlanet]

If we put “what the actual rule is” aside for a moment and imagine what Disney likes purely from Disney’s profitability angle.

• No major competition from DVC rental against direct Disney booking.
• DVC owners brings their connections who will fall in love with DVC and become owners.
• A few guests rent from owners in 2-mo to 5-mo window, filling up the remaining vacant rooms (with limited selection) across resorts. Some get into DVC and become owners someday.

But the reality is that Each 1000 points of rental can take ~50 studio nights away from Disney booking, assuming only a small portion won’t go to WDW without the possibility of DVC rental.
Disney is losing thousands to tens of thousands of nights due to mega renters. No wonder they will do something.

 

[Sandisw]

If we put “what the actual rule is” aside for a moment and imagine what Disney likes purely from Disney’s profitability angle.

• No major competition from DVC rental against direct Disney booking.
• DVC owners brings their connections who will fall in love with DVC and become owners.
• A few guests rent from owners in 2-mo to 5-mo window, filling up the remaining vacant rooms (with limited selection) across resorts. Some get into DVC and become owners someday.

But the reality is that Each 1000 points of rental can take ~50 studio nights away from Disney booking, assuming only a small portion won’t go to WDW without the possibility of DVC rental.
Disney is losing thousands to tens of thousands of nights due to mega renters. No wonder they will do something.

All very true and it’s a high probability that this is the reason DVC has made some of its recent decisions.

 

[DanCali]

As an owner of points at BWV and SSR I am happy that they have made this decision, it is extremely difficult to book BWV standard view, yet I see consecutive single night reservations available for rent consistently. I really do hope that this type of mass commercial renting is stopped. I didn't think I would be competing for same rooms as commercial renters whose business is DVC Rentals.

There will always be a total of 4,888,837(?) BWV points chasing those same 52 standard view studios between 7-11 months. It really doesn't matter who holds the points because demand will always greatly exceed supply. The points charts are too attractive to ignore.

Yes, a handful of owners may now get rooms that previously went to commercial renters but, unless there is an increase in supply (in the sense of more rooms), the vast majority will not see a change in availability and will still struggle to get those rooms and complain about it.

 

[EPCOT Terran]

The only lounge I have used with my Venture X thst has had crowds is Terminal 4 @ JFK…and that was during late afternoons when those international flyers were getting their first night flights.

Even the ones at MCO have never been crowded to capacity

I have been put on a waitlist at DFW more than once for the Capital One lounge. It's a nice lounge, though.

 

[muppets3d]

There will always be a total of 4,888,837(?) BWV points chasing those same 52 standard view studios between 7-11 months. It really doesn't matter who holds the points because demand will always greatly exceed supply. The points charts are too attractive to ignore.

Yes, a handful of owners may now get rooms that previously went to commercial renters but, unless there is an increase in supply (in the sense of more rooms), the vast majority will not see a change in availability and will still struggle to get those rooms and complain about it.

It's been discussed ad nauseum in this thread. When the commercial renters dump their contracts, the new owners will not all be looking to grab those rooms. Certainly many will. They will still be hard to book. But many will book 1 bedroom villas. Some may even use their BWV points at other resorts. Whatever they book, they likely won't have enough points to keep those studios locked up in walks.

 

[DanCali]

It's been discussed ad nauseum in this thread. When the commercial renters dump their contracts, the new owners will not all be looking to grab those rooms. Certainly many will. They will still be hard to book. But many will book 1 bedroom villas. Some may even use their BWV points at other resorts. Whatever they book, they likely won't have enough points to keep those studios locked up in walks.

Sure - but there are just too few rooms for the vast majority of owners who want those rooms to get them.

You can't have a drastic change in (perceived) availability of those rooms without more rooms or a change in the points chart that makes them less desirable.

 

[DonMacGregor]

There will always be a total of 4,888,837(?) BWV points chasing those same 52 standard view studios between 7-11 months. It really doesn't matter who holds the points because demand will always greatly exceed supply. The points charts are too attractive to ignore.

See, I think this where the difference lies. I agree 100% that there are 4,888,837(?) points that could potentially be used to book those rooms, or may be used to book those rooms.

That’s a far cry from saying all of those points will be used to chase those rooms.

With regular member use, the first, more organic scenario is likely, with some members definitely using their points to chase popular, high-value rooms. Many members though, absolutely will not use their points on those rooms (nor will they want to).

With a professional renter, the second scenario is almost guaranteed.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Sure - but there are just too few rooms for the vast majority of owners who want those rooms to get them.

You can't have a drastic change in (perceived) availability of those rooms without more rooms or a change in the points chart that makes them less desirable.

I think you’re missing the point. As has been said almost ad nauseum at this point, none of the rooms are miraculously going to become “more available”. But, if you remove the professional renter who is clogging the toilet grabbing disproportionately high numbers of room nights in those rooms, other members will be able to step into those room nights. The rooms don’t become more available, they just become available to more members.

 

[muppets3d]

See, I think this where the difference lies. I agree 100% that there are 4,888,837(?) points that could potentially be used to book those rooms, or may be used to book those rooms.

That’s a far cry from saying all of those points will be used to chase those rooms.

With regular member use, the first, more organic scenario is likely, with some members definitely using their points to chase popular, high-value rooms. Many members though, absolutely will not use their points on those rooms (nor will they want to).

With a professional renter, the second scenario is almost guaranteed.

Exactly, because professional renters book what they can get the most money for and will rent the fastest. A DVC owner booking stays for themselves and their family may not want a deluxe studio, or they may want a different view. Regardless they won't have a bot snapping up the rooms immediately and locking them up in walks for months.

 

[DanCali]

See, I think this where the difference lies. I agree 100% that there are 4,888,837(?) points that could potentially be used to book those rooms, or may be used to book those rooms.

That’s a far cry from saying all of those points will be used to chase those rooms.

With regular member use, the first, more organic scenario is likely, with some members definitely using their points to chase popular, high-value rooms. Many members though, absolutely will not use their points on those rooms (nor will they want to).

With a professional renter, the second scenario is almost guaranteed.

It only takes 500-800 points to sell out all the standard BWV studios on a given night (somewhat more for Easter/New Year). It's even more extreme with AKV Club/Value where you have 5/18 studios - 200-300 points and all those sell out for a night. And there are only 365 nights in a year.

Even if some owners behave differently than pro renters (I agree with you on that), it won't matter... Most won't see a change.

 

[lowlight]

It only takes 500-800 points to sell out all the standard BWV studios on a given night (somewhat more for Easter/New Year). And there are only 365 nights in a year.

Even if some owners behave differently than pro renters (I agree with you on that), it won't matter... Most won't see a change.

If you could sum up where your stand on the matter of renting, it would give much needed perspective to your argument.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Even if some owners behave differently than pro renters (I agree with you on that), it won't matter... Most won't see a change.

This is where we will probably never agree. It “won’t matter” only if no one sees a change. Even if most won’t see a change, some will. It most certainly matters to them.

 

[MB_01]

Maybe us normal members should start a lawsuit against DVCMC for not enforcing the contract against commercial renters.

Sounds fair!

 

[DanCali]

If you could sum up where your stand on the matter of renting, it would give much needed perspective to your argument.

Sure - let them go after the very obvious commercial renters that account for the vast majority of the rentals. My guess is that less than 0.1% of owners are 25%-50% of the rentals. Maybe even less than 0.01% (less than 1 in 10,000) because how many owners actually spend $1,000,000+ on 10,000+ DVC points?

But renting deeded property is generally a right owners have (subject to some restrictions) and it shouldn't turn into having regular everyday owners be scared to use their ownership.

And, regardless of what they do, anyone who expects to see a drastic change in availability at 11 months or 7 months for the highly desirable rooms is going to be disappointed.

 

[lowlight]

Sure - let them go after the very obvious commercial renters that account for the vast majority of the rentals. My guess is that less than 0.1% of owners are 25%-50% of the rentals.

But renting deeded property is generally a right owners have (subject to some restrictions) and it shouldn't turn into having regular everyday owners be scared to use their ownership.

And, regardless of what they do, anyone who expects to see a drastic change in availability at 11 months or 7 months for the highly desirable rooms is going to be disappointed.

Ok, that’s a modest proposal. Let’s say they attack the big guys only and it stops 25% of the rentals. What then? Is that sufficient for you, or would you think it acceptable that they keep going down the line until a certain percentage is hit?

 

[IMMkXLVI]

I'm coming into this conversation a bit late and even to DVC itself, having only purchased Riviera and Grand Floridian early last year .
That said, I fail to see why I should or would care about someone renting out points as a business. The resorts only have so many points to be sold and some held by Disney so it isn't like it can be "overbooked". It's a timeshare so it isn't like living at home and my neighbor uses the house next door as an AirBNB and I've got different people sleeping there every night. DVC is a hotel so everyone to everyone else is essentially a stranger.

Why should I care or find it comforting that these commercial reservations will slow or stop? I saw on other forums comments like "about time", "thank goodness" and "I should thank the board" but as of right now, I don't understand why I would care. Can someone with greater experience shed some light on why this is important?

 

[Sandisw]

Exactly, because professional renters book what they can get the most money for and will rent the fastest. A DVC owner booking stays for themselves and their family may not want a deluxe studio, or they may want a different view. Regardless they won't have a bot snapping up the rooms immediately and locking them up in walks for months.

There are really a few different issues here.

One is the use of bots…no one should be using them and DVC should stop it.

Two…stopping your mega point owners from renting tons of reservations, especially since they target the rooms that owners really want due to low cost.

Three…what improvement to the success rate will there be for the vast majority of owners who are being shut out today. .

If talking about three, for BWV RV rooms, since there are only 52, that success rate isn’t going to be that much different because only a handful of BWV owners will now be winners.

This doesn’t mean that DVC should not crack down on those commercially renting, because they should.

But, if they don’t also do something about the demand and imbalance between RV and PV rooms in the point charts, the vast majority of owners of these resorts will continue to be frustrated and shut out, even if there are no more spec rentals.