DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss!

[VGCgroupie]

I believe this is short sighted and an extreme minority opinion. There is a 0% chance I would have bought in if there wasn’t a vibrant resale market.

I agree with this. I would not have purchased if resale wasnt decent but I did purchase assuming zero value because I am not a gambler. I think that most here in the middle ground but debates get heated and things dont come off the way they should while typing on a forum. If I didnt know you from seeing you around the boards I would think you were okay with commercial renting and I know you are not. You are middle ground, renting is okay for personal use when needed.

It seems that somehow this thread has went people debating all or nothing. I haven't seen DVC take that stance. So I don't know why some people seem to think they have.

 

[muppets3d]

I’m gonna have so many points when DVC resale drops to zero!
Any insight as to why other timeshares are so worthless for resale? I only have DVC. Do they work completely differently?

There are 50 (maybe closer to 10, I don't know the real number) timeshares in Myrtle Beach all selling substantially the same product. There's only one on Disney property. There are many reasons why most timeshare products are worthless in resale, but location is a big reason why Disney's product has resale value.

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

1000 points is a lot of points to rent, I agree with that.

And it will be up to DVC to make a decision about those owners.

They will set whatever metrics they want to flag accounts…which has been rumored it will initially be based on a % of reservations in which the owner is not listed and take it from there.

Once they do, they will determine what actions to take.

Yes. And a great example...Some of those renters advertise (even in posts here) that they rent all these points annually.
THAT is frequent, regular & commercial income & not purchasing or using points for "personal use."

 

[VGCgroupie]

Let’s take the commercial renter out for a minute.

If an owner has to rent out their points because of a last minute emergency but never rented, and their points will expire , are you saying that owner should not be allowed to rent any room they were able to book with those distressed points?

I dont believe that is what they are saying . When you see that reservation is from a person who has 10 other reservations up for rent at the same time and they also had 10 reservations for rent last month ( I'm not speaking about Davids or DVCRM). That is what is frustrating. There is a way to determine who is commercially renting and who is not. It's clear as day if you are looking for it.

 

[Brian Noble]

Any insight as to why other timeshares are so worthless for resale? I only have DVC. Do they work completely differently?

Because more people want to sell than want to buy!

That sounds flip, but it is true. The organic demand for a "typical" timeshare is zero.

That does not mean that most timeshares have no value! There is value so long as the ongoing costs of ownership are less than the cost of market rents. I've gotten great value out of my timeshare portfolio, and ignoring the (direct) DVC purchase, I put that portfolio together for hundreds of dollars, total.

There are 50 timeshares in Myrtle Beach all selling substantially the same product. There's only one on Disney property. There are many reasons why most timeshare products are worthless in resale, but location is a big reason why Disney's product has resale value.

And many of those have usage value even though they do not have resale value. That's because market rents on the Redneck Riviera are high enough that you can still run and maintain a timeshare resort for less.

A few of them even have resale value. Platinum oceanside/ocean front weeks at Marriott Grande Ocean, for example, go for $15K and up, and those fail ROFR.

I would not have purchased if resale wasnt decent but I did purchase assuming zero value because I am not a gambler

I'd bet a few mickeybars that you could have talked yourself into it.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Your gaslighting again renting point goes for $16-$20 -

Then you are looking in wrong places. You over here gaslighting while saying someone else is gaslighting. Amazing stuff.

I could post right now reservations getting $30pp some $35 pp but I cant due to the rules. I could pull and show $25pp reservations ALL DAY LONG!

 

[Mouseforward]

Then you are looking in wrong places. You over here gaslighting while saying someone else is gaslighting. Amazing stuff.

I could post right now reservations getting $30pp some $35 pp but I cant due to the rules. I could pull and show $25pp reservations ALL DAY LONG

Scroll down and look at the rental forum, then apologize

 

[Brian Noble]

I've gotten great value out of my timeshare portfolio, and ignoring the (direct) DVC purchase, I put that portfolio together for hundreds of dollars, total.

This is one of the Great Secrets of timeshare ownership. Ordinary timeshares purchased resale can be phenomenal travel bargains. You have to be willing to learn how to use them properly, so it's a little more like a hobby. But it can be specacularly rewarding. For example, I used to stay in DVC villas routinely for a fraction of what an owner at that resort would pay only in Dues, completely ingoring purchase price.

I still every once in a while wonder why the heck I bought DVC anyway. It was my divorce gift to myself---and it was that or a Mustang convertible, and that was too cliche even for me.

Then you are looking in wrong places

Renting points goes for ~$18. Renting reservations can be much more lucrative!

 

[VGCgroupie]

I'd bet a few mickeybars that you could have talked yourself into it.

Touche my friend touche

 

[speedyfishy]

Was going to add this to my multi response but I think it's important so I will comment on it independently.

100% If you cant afford your car payment w/o doing DoorDash every now and then maybe buy a cheaper car. Things can always happen (umm hello 2020) and you might not be able to rent so it is not worth the risk owning something you cant afford to pay for.

There is risk in renting for both the owner and the renter. When you rent you are assuming all liability for whatever that renter may do to the room. While this is likely never to happen what if they trash the room and you get sent a bill for $5,000? I assume you cant afford that either.

Yes you can rent every now and then to help offset dues when you aren't going, why pay dues on unused points but you really shouldn't be buying more than you can afford to pay dues for.

Not sure if these comments are targeted at me since I said I rent some to help cover the cost. But to clarify, yes I can cover the dues myself on all the points I own and some years will use all 700 points. And yes, I can afford a $5,000 bill if someone trashes the room. But I do rent a lot to help subsidize the cost, it’s not a need, but something that makes financial sense for me. I don’t need multiple weekends in Bungalows every year, but one weekend every year is a nice treat. I own over $100,000 worth of DVC. When something costs that much money I consider it an asset. Can I afford to buy a car worth $100,000, yes, would I? No because it’s not an asset. Would I buy $100,000 worth of any other timeshare? Also no.

I have no interest in owning something that I spent tens of thousands of dollars on that isn’t a good investment. (I already sold a contract for an $8,000 profit) What made DVC different from a lot of timeshare companies, and the only reason why I considered it was because it can be a good investment. If I can’t rent or resale values start tanking with renters flooding the market I have no desire to own. 100k invested for 35 years until I’m retirement age should be over a million dollars. DVC worked well for us, but depending on how things play out we will probably unload more contracts in the future. We live 15 mins from WDW, and I was fine staying on site a few times a year because I got a good value renting out some points. If the value isn’t there we will sell and just keep Disneyland contracts.

 

[Cyberc1978]

So I just did a quick search. There is a particular poster on the rental forum here (I'm not going to name the name or listings as I don't want to run afoul of any rules here) who, between May of 2024 and April of 2025, appears to have rented 9,500 points. There could be other posters with similar histories, I just checked this one because I saw his name a lot. It looks to me possible that even people who are casually renting directly from an owner here on DIS could get burned with cancelled reservations by stuff like this. That sure looks to violate the new wording Disney has put out and I am curious to see if that poster tries to list another batch for rent (he seems to do so every few months).

It also looks like he was getting, on average, 20ish per point, so he pulled in around $100,000 in profit after accounting for maintenance fees. Based on the types of contracts he had (Aulani, Bay Lake Tower, Grand Floridian), he sure looks to have outlaid well over a million dollars to acquire them.

Wow just wow.
Even though that could be split between 2 UY years that's still close to 5,000 points each UY.

I would love to own that. Just to book a GV when I take a solo trip or when we go as a family .

When the dues has to be paid, then not so much.

Ok, it’s important to know who is advocating for solutions that would burn the whole system down just so that they can get what they want vs what is good for the overall membership.

There will unfortunately always be those who would rather see it all burn - just because they can't get a club level or value studio at 7 months .

At some point or time I hope they will start to see reality. With only 5 club level studio, it does not matter how much Disney do or don't do these rooms won't be widely available at 7 months.

 

[Carouselofplanning]

The current discussion illustrates why Disney will only target commercial owners. If they enforce this strictly, the bottom drops out on resale. This means they have to tie up a ton of capital on ROFR or let people buy resale at a huge discount. If they let them go to market, that will undercut new DVC sales. If the savings are good enough, people will be more than happy to forego the lounges and Moonlight Magics. The restrictions if strictly implemented will also slow new sales. None of that is good for business.

And just because an owner doesn’t care what the value of their purchase is (“I don’t care about resale”), doesn’t mean the restrictions aren’t lowering the value of it. You just don’t care for whatever reason.

 

[MB_01]

The closest I’ve gotten to renting out my points was when I lied to my wife and said I was only buying so many so we could rent some out.

 

[JackosinDIS]

I agree with this. I would not have purchased if resale wasnt decent but I did purchase assuming zero value because I am not a gambler. I think that most here in the middle ground but debates get heated and things dont come off the way they should while typing on a forum. If I didnt know you from seeing you around the boards I would think you were okay with commercial renting and I know you are not. You are middle ground, renting is okay for personal use when needed.

It seems that somehow this thread has went people debating all or nothing. I haven't seen DVC take that stance. So I don't know why some people seem to think they

Yeh, people’s opinions do seem to get a little polarised in these discussions, but the vast majority are somewhere in the middle ground if you stand back and look. That huge area in the middle between a) it’s ok to rent all your points but we’re not happy with spec rentals, and b) it’s ok to do a once in a lifetime rental in an emergency, is why there is so much debate. The people closer to option (a) are accusing the others of proposing a complete ban on renting (not the case) and the people closer to option (b) suggesting that the others fully support the commercial spec renting industry and are obviously all commercial renters themselves and therefore have a vested interest in arguing that point. Neither is correct.

Aren’t humans funny?

 

[VGCgroupie]

Scroll down and look at the rental forum, then apologize

Apologize for what exactly? These boards do not represent where 99% of the commercial renting is happening. Apologize?

 

[VGCgroupie]

Not sure if these comments are targeted at me since I said I rent some to help cover the cost. But to clarify, yes I can cover the dues myself on all the points I own and some years will use all 700 points. And yes, I can afford a $5,000 bill if someone trashes the room. But I do rent a lot to help subsidize the cost, it’s not a need, but something that makes financial sense for me. I don’t need multiple weekends in Bungalows every year, but one weekend every year is a nice treat. I own over $100,000 worth of DVC. When something costs that much money I consider it an asset. Can I afford to buy a car worth $100,000, yes, would I? No because it’s not an asset. Would I buy $100,000 worth of any other timeshare? Also no.

I have no interest in owning something that I spent tens of thousands of dollars on that isn’t a good investment. (I already sold a contract for an $8,000 profit) What made DVC different from a lot of timeshare companies, and the only reason why I considered it was because it can be a good investment. If I can’t rent or resale values start tanking with renters flooding the market I have no desire to own. 100k invested for 35 years until I’m retirement age should be over a million dollars. DVC worked well for us, but depending on how things play out we will probably unload more contracts in the future. We live 15 mins from WDW, and I was fine staying on site a few times a year because I got a good value renting out some points. If the value isn’t there we will sell and just keep Disneyland contracts.

My comment was posted in response to not being able to afford dues. Not sure if you said that you could or could not. But my response was in specific to not being able to afford dues without renting. Only you can know if that is your circumstance.

I will edit to add: If I were speaking just of you I would've tagged you or responded directly to your post I was responding to.

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

I agree. It was just evidence to the point that was brought up that the Mouse doesn't like internal competition

I wasn't aware of that mess so thx... but really...What company welcomes internal competition.
Many employee contracts include Non-Compete clauses & other restrictions.
Disney is a company. With rules. It's expected & this discussion is proof of that.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Massively improved availability for booking is good for the overall membership though. I'd argue it's way more important than resale value.

But that is not what's gonna happen. People will still complain about not being able to get BWV resort view or value/club level rooms at AKV.

More general availability will be seem, but it does not matter if I own 100 points and use them or if you owned the same 100 points and used them. Rooms would still be booked, most likely 11 months out or close to it.

As long as an owner is following the rental rules that DVC sets, then we should all be happy with that.

that's the problem isn't it? We don't know DVC rental rules. We know the vague language they used, but what they really mean - we don't know. I know DVC did it purposefully, they don't want anyone to truly know. They basically want everyone do draw their own conclusions, about what's wrong and what's okay.

I also understand by setting a specific number like 20 rental per 12 months, then people will find ways to work around it. But IMO that's because DVC didn't define the 20 rentals specifically enough.

 

[Brian Noble]

If they let them go to market, that will undercut new DVC sales.

Counterpoint: Wyndham.

 

[Genie+]

I rented 18pts BWV standard studio in 2024 for $38pp and the broker was STILL able to tack on another $5pp for themselves. $43pp!!! What cost the renter $400/nt and I got around $360/nt for a Mon and Tues in May. FB listings keep the whole thing for themselves.

As a BWV owner I was not sad to see the 9pt nights increased to 10. That was offset by reducing many 12pt nights to 11pts, altogether increasing the 10-11pt/nts thru the year (close to 90nts iirc). Still a darling of commercial renters but I think at least helped spread demand.

Not sure what the final outcome is for BWV. If walking and spec renting were curtailed on top of better point chart balancing and made a positive impact to personal usage, I’d buy more points. My guess is the chapter that comes after this is point washing. And point trusts, where owners get access to more than one home resort before full trading opens.