DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss!

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Question- the biggest ‘renter’ is Disney, said to be millions of points a year.
How do they book? Do they have to have someone on the system like us, with no unfair advantage? Anyone ask them? Do they disclose?

Much of their inventory is in a completely separate bucket as it’s undeclared inventory. It’s not mixing with the rest of us. The only inventory they’re getting that mixes with what we have access to is breakage inventory, which is generally stuff within 60 days. While they can hold back some in expectation of breakage, I can’t imagine they’re doing that at 11 months, and probably not even at 7 months. So, no, they don’t have an “unfair advantage” over the auto-booking bots that are grabbing AKV value rooms at 11 months.

 

[tx911]

I'm taken aback but I guess really not surprised with the posts I've seen where people say they can't afford their dues without renting. Suggestion to new buyers: Buy however many points you can easily afford and use them for vacations.

 

[muppets3d]

Most owners were somewhere between “I don’t care” and “It’s about time.” The tone in TUG (which has more than its fair share of landlords) was generally positive, because going after rentals was viewed as improving availability for rank-and-file owners.

Has it helped?

 

[Cfabar1]

I'm taken aback but I guess really not surprised with the posts I've seen where people say they can't afford their dues without renting. Suggestion to new buyers: Buy however many points you can easily afford and use them for vacations.

The new language makes clear that "regularly and frequently" renting points is not allowed.

If I had too many points (especially over multiple contracts) I would be considering my options and determining my risk tolerance.

How Disney will define "regularly and frequently" is in the end what matters. However, if you are renting points every year, it sounds to me like you are regularly renting points annually. Will the number of points likely be something that is used as a determinative pattern to determine this? Possibly. Do I personally think they will target large owners, yes.

I'm just saying, the language they are listing could be applied to the 300 points owner who rents 150 of those points every year based on my reading.

 

[muppets3d]

I'm taken aback but I guess really not surprised with the posts I've seen where people say they can't afford their dues without renting. Suggestion to new buyers: Buy however many points you can easily afford and use them for vacations.

In other words they bought that many points so they could rent them out. Unfortunately for them, that gravy train seems like its about to leave the station.

 

[Mouseforward]

Disney really does go all the way here and do what Wyndham did.

You mean, drop our resale value to zero?

It’s never a good thing when rights are removed from the members. The end result will be that you still have availability issues because math exists, but you have a lower resale value.

 

[maui22]

Is it a coincidence Membership Magic and Beyond rolled out within the last year? Doesn’t it offer the ability to swap points for an annual pass?

Have a lot of extra points and concerned about commercial renting, swap your points with Disney.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

It’s never a good thing when rights are removed from the members

The only people who felt that way after Wyndham did what it did were the commercial renters.

 

[lowlight]

One thing that people in this thread are doing is vastly underestimating how much of a positive this could be for the average owner if Disney really does go all the way here and do what Wyndham did. You could see really significant availability changes. Your SAP points could suddenly be able to book some of the hardest to get room types in some of the most in-demand resorts at 7 months. Availability in general could last well within the 7 month period.

I truly do not think that even some of the informed DVC members (represented by many on these forums and others) realize how bad the issue has become, and that is to say nothing of the vast majority of DVC members being completely oblivious. There are places that have over 300 AKL value reservations by one renter for the next 11 months. The abuse happening has widespread affects, and anyone not championing enforcement by DVC is “sus” as the kids say.

It’s impossible for this to not have a positive net effect for the membership. It’s like an organized crime syndicate being dismantled. Occasional renters here who are complaining should consider that rental price is relative to supply and demand. Did anyone consider that the demand for rentals will not be going down, and the supply of rentals will, so the price per point for you should increase. Being able to say “I’m not a commercial renter so your reservation is safe” is a good advertisement for someone who does a rental every other year or so.

The narrative steering is becoming so obvious now that it’s laughable. The best thing everyone can do is to write to the DVC member services and encourage them to take the gloves off and show no mercy.

 

[OKW Lover]

Or people start taking a lot more trips in Grand Villas

How could that happen? Aren't GV's already fully occupied?

 

[DanCali]

The two bedroom presidential reserve unit (think club level in terms of how hard it would have been previously to book) at Bonnet Creek that I booked two days ago for 73 days from today is proof of how well the strategy worked, and how much it benefits honest owners like me.

One thing that people in this thread are doing is vastly underestimating how much of a positive this could be for the average owner if Disney really does go all the way here and do what Wyndham did. You could see really significant availability changes. Your SAP points could suddenly be able to book some of the hardest to get room types in some of the most in-demand resorts at 7 months. Availability in general could last well within the 7 month period.

Or it could not...

The availability issues are not just caused by renters and I think that there are multiple issues that are causing those availability problems. Getting rid of a few large scale renters won't make those club level rooms one iota easier to get because, imo, 90%+ of those rooms are walked mostly by legit owners who are looking to stay there. Similarly - the availability issues with VGF Deluxe Studios Resort View are not caused by renting - you probably just have thousands of relatively new buyers from BPK who prefer staying on the original building.

I do think you will possibly see some improvement, but likely not at the places where people hope the most. You really think that, even if renting was 100% banned, the AKV value rooms will last into the 7 month window? or the BWV resort views? There's a reason why the pro renters focus on those pretty exclusively - there is a lot of value there given those points charts. That value may now go to owners, but it will still be mostly those booking at 8am ET at 11 months out, and those rooms will still be walked. Those looking to trade in with SAPs will not see much change, if any.

 

[DanCali]

Much of their inventory is in a completely separate bucket as it’s undeclared inventory. It’s not mixing with the rest of us. The only inventory they’re getting that mixes with what we have access to is breakage inventory, which is generally stuff within 60 days.

What about all the points that DVC gets when people elect to go to Disneyland Paris, Kong Kong, or Tokyo? Or to use points on Disney Cruise Line? National Geographic? Adventures by Disney?

 

[Sandisw]

Question- the biggest ‘renter’ is Disney, said to be millions of points a year.
How do they book? Do they have to have someone on the system like us, with no unfair advantage? Anyone ask them? Do they disclose?

Any points owned by DVD have to be booked following the same rules as us…11 month window.

For rooms takes under the theory of breakage, 60 days as a rolling check in but they can also anticipate it based on trends and pull sooner

Rooms taken to cover the cost when a member trades out is a little unclear but from the info I got, it still falls within the 11 month window.

Same with rooms pulled for deposits to II…can deposit any rooms to match the amount, doesn’t have to be the resort, which is why you see a lot of SSR, etc…but I still believe the 11 month window applies.

 

[Sandisw]

I'm taken aback but I guess really not surprised with the posts I've seen where people say they can't afford their dues without renting. Suggestion to new buyers: Buy however many points you can easily afford and use them for vacations.

You know that part of the concern of potential timeshare buyers is the committment and future cost.

One of the big sales points is the flexibility that if you have a year you can’t go, it’s easy to rent your points that year.

Same with resale value. What has been the biggest con shared about investing in RIV…it’s resale value is not going to hold up.

So, I can see how many owners out there may be currently renting to cover dues so they can still afford to go.

It’s why this is going to be interesting to watch where DVC draws the enforcement line.

 

[lowlight]

That value may now go to owners

That is all that matters. Full stop. You also underestimate how many 7 month to 1 month period reservations these companies are monopolizing, making it much more difficult to add a day here or there to an existing trip. As a partial renter, this doesn’t bother me anymore, but it’s an issue whether you believe it or not.

 

[Sandisw]

Completely empty threat as there is no “large number” of disgruntled owners. This is a positive change that will benefit the vast majority of DVC owners.

It depends on what transpires though, doesn’t it?

We all agree those who have massive amounts of point because they have set up LLCs, multiple memberships, etc to get around the old rules.

But it’s the other situations that we all differ in what crosses the line within acceptable and unacceptable.

If DVC does what I hope they do, I agree it will be seen by those who care as a win.

 

[xdan0920]

You mean, drop our resale value to zero?

I would be fine with that happening.

 

[DanCali]

That is all that matters. Full stop. You also underestimate how many 7 month to 1 month period reservations these companies are monopolizing, making it much more difficult to add a day here or there to an existing trip. As a partial renter, this doesn’t bother me anymore, but it’s an issue whether you believe it or not.

Fair point - but suggesting like those with SSR SAPs will all of a sudden book AKV Value/Club studios or BWV Resort View studios or Aulani hotel rooms at the 7-month window is way overstating things, imo.

 

[lowlight]

Fair point - but suggesting like those with SSR SAPs will all of a sudden book AKV Value/Club studios or BWV Resort View studios or Aulani hotel rooms at the 7-month window is way overstating things, imo.

I’m not sure I’ve seen that argued, if you’d like to quote it. I think everyone agrees that there are going to be availability issues no matter what, it’s baked in the system. That any significant share of primo reservations is likely going to renters who put no money into the system is not ok. Losing out on a choice reservation sucks, but it’s the way it works. Losing out on a choice reservation because someone is gaming the system leaves a bitter taste.

 

[Sandisw]

Is it a coincidence Membership Magic and Beyond rolled out within the last year? Doesn’t it offer the ability to swap points for an annual pass?

Have a lot of extra points and concerned about commercial renting, swap your points with Disney.

I think the transfer rules to allow banked and borrowed to be moved and this program were definitely done for the purpose to impact the rental market

By allowing owners to transfer between themselves more often….and DVC knows money changes hand and ignores…which the contract does give them the ability to do…it helps to alleviate the complaints about renters using rooms vs owners.

The trades for AP gives DVC more income because they now get to take rooms from inventory to pay the parks division for the ticket.

They get to decide what those rooms are and so can pull the rooms that have a high likelihood of being booked by cash guests.

This program also eliminates the $95 fee to exchange for cruises, etc.

Every decision DVC does is going to benefit them…and what some of us have always said when it comes to enforcing the commercial purpose clause.

They would enforce things when they felt its impact was impacting them.