HyperspaceMountainPilot
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2019
- Messages
- 3,436
Whoa! This is the first I've ever heard of this-- all resorts have the ability to require 5 night minimum stays, for real?They can’t do that. The contract limits what can be required. The maximum number of nights that can be implemented as a minimum for a reservation is 5 nights.
So, at most they could make all reservations require at least 5 nights but no more.
I think that it would definitely nudge people who were on the fence to sell-- not sure how big that category is. I also have seen several people on the boards say they aren't coming to the U.S. for a few years and will just rent... might push some of them to sell too, to get ahead of any bigger wave?In the meantime, if a few people are shaken out of the tree through FUD, fine.
Disney has so so so much more information on most people than they realize. They can see if these are people you used to visit with together (and still do), they can see if you have ever scanned in for rides together with your magic bands, if you are linked in friends and family, etc. I am sure they are going to start on the conservative side, there are several factors that all indicate commercial renting that they can use as as first cut.How does Disney know I am gifting the points vs renting the points for $$?
How does Disney know they are my family vs complete strangers?
I haven't seen Disney clarify what personal use is. (Which in my opinion is key here since they are the ones who will be making decisions and enforcing policy).
I don't know the percentage of points that we gift in a year. (That might be interesting to go back and check) But, what if more than 50% of the reservations we make are for family members? (Frankly--that day may be coming as DH and I get older and less able to make trips to WDW and DL). Will Disney have some sort of formula where they start canceling reservations?
I agree with this. I think a lot of commercial renters may wait to see if Disney is serious before selling, but others know who they are and will try to offload contracts that are still above where they bought them while they can.I must say there is what I would say is an unusual market of confirmed reservations. It is clear what is happening and fixing it is good for the people who want to vacation at Disney. There must be groups who have formed partnerships to collect contracts and book the desirable rooms and dates. Like some have said there are likely bots involved with the amount of walking that goes on.
I am curious to see the fallout. How much will this impact resale? If it is significant will the rofr dude actually wake up? Of course that does not mean they can sell more at the direct rates but today’s news can increase the difference in resale vs direct. It seems to me Disney wants a weak resale market. They want to be the ones buying when someone wants to sell but at a low price.
I think there will be groups who start to offload contracts. It is so easy for Disney to know who is buying contracts to rent. In fact they already know. Someone with one contract who rents half their points is not the target. It is the people with max contracts and points who rarely if ever actually go to Disney.
I believe I read that there were time share lawsuits when some of the other programs cracked down, but none of them were successful.You’ll have to keep imagining. As with the other (much larger) timeshare operations that already went through this… lots of people threaten lawsuits. None really follow through.
It would absolutely help curb the casual renter if Disney made it easier (really less punitive) to trade DVC points for cruises, hotels in domestic and overseas parks, ABD, etc., but I don't think Disney is going to want to give resale owners many opportunities... cracking down on renting is another way of moving people from resale to direct if they crack down hard enough.Disney is already expecting lawsuits if you read the terms and conditions. I have mixed feelings. Certainly the rental business has become very large and affects ability to make reservations. That’s said, I have rented my points out in the past as well as rented points. Sometimes we go elsewhere and simply have points that are not going to be used.
If Disney gave a better cost to points for cruises, I would never have left over points.
These points taken together are actually foreshadowing a future headache for owners-- potentially having to show our ID when we check in. If all the frequent renters plan to evade the rules by leaving themselves on the reservation, Disney may decide to either force us all back to the front desk or to randomly do spot checks during the stay.Reading various posts / threads on various platforms. Here are some things I have seen said by others in various places
- MS has told someone that they have implemented a digital tracking system to determine if a member has a certain % of reservations that are not in the owners name and then it will get manually reviewed by a person
- Members have suggested they will just leave themselves as the lead guest to avoid being flagged as a rental
- Another report of a DVC higher up confirming a tracking system has been established
I also wonder if it will put more pressure on the properties where you can put 5 in a studio and 1 bedroom, given how many families of 4 are often visiting.
However, there are other ways for Disney to determine if you the owner actually shows up.
Yeah, I agree it would be dangerous for the people leaving valuables in the room, to say nothing of having to explain to Disney at check-in that they have never met so-and-so (or lie and risk getting trespassed). But also it would only be a matter of time until Disney or a 3rd party rental co. got sued (probably unsuccessfully) for complications arising from this scheme. I absolutely think some rogue individual renters with lots of points will try it, but I would be shocked if the major 3rd parties allowed it.That is incredibly dangerous for everyone involved. Disney should legit be locking down/suspending any members they find doing this.
Could shift demand away from Duos, from 4 bedroom rooms and towards 5 bedroom rooms (and maybe add demand for 2bd?).That is great information!!! And it makes sense to have a tracking system.
I get that some might keep their name but that is going to make renting studios much harder for those that are capped at 4.
I can see a few things that would suggest owner as lead guest is a lie, information that is readily available to Disney. It really depends how serious they are about enforcing their rules.No question It’s a terrible idea for a renter to agree to that.
I was referring to DVC looking at the ones with an owner as a guest and deciding they have the right to cancel one.
As long as an owner is a guest, I see no way for DVC to have grounds to cancel it.
My guess is that this would only be worth doing for people renting hundreds of points a year or more-- but they absolutely could do it with circumstantial evidence and then the person who got cancelled would need to affirmatively prove that they were actually there to get any kind of relief from a court.If DVC is already questioning whether someone is renting for commercial purposes and then sees the person’s name on several reservations to which different groups of people have been added, they could theoretically look at the reservations after they are used. They could use MDE and resort data to investigate whether the owner actually checked in (received a room key or accessed the room with a phone), whether everyone else in the room purchased/used park tickets and the owner did not, and whether the owner charged anything to the room. None of this information would prove anything, but it could be used to build evidence of a pattern. Then the owner could be issued a reminder that commercial use is prohibited and future reservations that appear to be commercial will be cancelled.
I doubt DVC would invest the time to do this, but they could.
I am worried that online check-in (without at least some stop at the front desk) may end if Disney starts to see an uptick in leaving owner as lead guest with a bunch of rotating rando renters.Online check would have to end. Plus you'd have to prove that somebody else didn't open the doors all the time, plus staying at DVC doesn't require going to a theme park nor having tickets. It's part of what makes policing this very tricky and where I have doubts on their doing this well.