DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss!

In 2021 a new statute was implemented in FL. I don't know if or how it will impact DVC.
I suspect this is fine from Disney's POV. The verbiage does not suggest renting is prohibited. It suggests that commercial renting is prohibited. Furthermore, it very much does not limit the number of times an owner can rent, because there is no specific number in the verbiage. Finally, the simple language limiting to personal use has been there from the very beginning, as far as I know.

From where I sit, there seems to be plenty of room between where Disney wants to go and what this statute forbids.

I am going to give Disney the benefit of the doubt and say that they will notify someone before/when a reservation gets cancelled as opposed to just allowing someone to show up to a cancelled room. Then the responsibility does lie with the owner to pass that along to renter and refund them.
The problem with this is that it doesn't get it done. The point of cancelling a reservation is not to punish the Member. The point of cancelling a reservation is to get the renter to complain---loudly---that renting DVC from an owner is dangerous and uncertain. You don't need very many of those before the demand for DVC rental collapses.

And, of course, Disney will offer to find that family a room. At rack rate.
 
Correct. My point is the renter doesn't know a box exists stipulating no commercial renting.

I get that but if someone is going to rent a DVC reservation it is on them to understand the pros and cons.

While most rentals are not an issue, the situation has always existed that the owner owns it until you check in.

I’m not trying to sound insensitive but it is on the renter to understand the risks.

I think it’s also why the brokers have updated their terms and can see more rentals going that route because they at least work to make it right.
 
Thanks Sandy! It is something I do infrequently. I always get UY and calendar confused when thinking about it!

Options are good! :tink:
 
My suspicion is Disney added personal use because that term is a lot less ambiguous than commercial use. Commercial use has been defined many times in the court and it’s not what most people think it is. Just exchanging money for something doesn’t make it a commercial enterprise.

“ Personal use “ seems to me an easier way to justify if someone renting the majority of their points or not even going to Disney themselves.

Especially since ambiguity usually goes against the author of the contract in court.

They used personal use because that is what we are allowed to do.

So, I think it makes sense to help people understand a little better of what that means since it includes family friends and renters.

DVC still gets to decide what regular and frequent use of the membership means in terms of no longer being personal use.

And, I bet that threshold is going to be higher than some think.

It does put it back on the owner to decide what they believe that is and go from there.

The big change isn’t really the clarifying lanauge as much as it is an owner attesting it falls under the personal use guidelines.
 

@Sandisw can I post the verbiage of this FB group? Their post said to "share it" so not violating their rules hahaha. To be frank its pretty controversial takes in my opinion

You can’t post screenshots and since FB can’t be linked if it’s a private group, we don’t allow that.
 
Link to the new Ts & Cs in case anyone want to read in full:

https://cdn1.parksmedia.wdprapps.disney.com/media/dvc/DVC-Terms-and-Conditions-2025-5-15-25.pdf

I don’t have an issue with the underlying intent of these terms. However, I do have an issue with DVC changing the rules on how they decide what is or is not personal use. Our membership documents clearly state that DVC must use reasonable discretion in reaching that decision. These terms allow DVC to use its sole discretion which is an entirely different and subjective test.

I’m sure @drusba has elaborated on this in previous threads.

Arguably, it makes no difference in practice given that no member realistically has the resources to challenge an ‘unreasonable’ decision by DVC in any event.
 
Last time we had this discussion I posted this link.

In 2021 a new statute was implemented in FL. I don't know if or how it will impact DVC.


Link: https://www.floridacondohoalawblog.com/2023/11/29/implementing-condominium-restrictions/

Fla. Stat. § 718.110(13) expressly limits amendments relating to rentals as follows:

(13) An amendment prohibiting unit owners from renting their units or altering the duration of the rental term or specifying or limiting the number of times unit owners are entitled to rent their units during a specified period applies only to unit owners who consent to the amendment and unit owners who acquire title to their units after the effective date of that amendment.

None of what has just happened is a change thou ch. It is simply having owners attest to the fact they are using the membership for personal use…which they agreed to when they bought.

The updated T and C simply clarify what that looks like in more detail then before. We never had the right to rent for commercial purposes so again, nothing has changed.

The only thing that this really does is make it clear that regular and frequent rentals would not be considered personal use.

But, DVC purposely did not define that, which gives them the right to decide what number of rentals is seen as too regular or too frequent.
 
Link to the new Ts & Cs in case anyone want to read in full:

https://cdn1.parksmedia.wdprapps.disney.com/media/dvc/DVC-Terms-and-Conditions-2025-5-15-25.pdf

I don’t have an issue with the underlying intent of these terms. However, I do have an issue with DVC changing the rules on how they decide what is or is not personal use. Our membership documents clearly state that DVC must use reasonable discretion in reaching that decision. These terms allow DVC to use its sole discretion which is an entirely different and subjective test.

I’m sure @drusba has elaborated on this in previous threads.

Arguably, it makes no difference in practice given that no member realistically has the resources to challenge an ‘unreasonable’ decision by DVC in any event.

Since it references the POS…and following the rules for that…I would say that the reasonable aspect still exists for pre-RiV resorts because even that still has it as their sole discretion?

RIV and beyond don’t have that term so maybe that is why it’s missing from this.
 
A few negatives if they do crackdown hard

-Reducing the new number of try before you buy people could well impact direct sales by a couple of %
-New people also spend more at Disney
-Less owners willing to risk renting, might mean less happy owners who just spend less when they do travel

We all want them to stop commercial renters snagging desirable rooms and advertising them at $25-30pp but don’t throw us under the truck at the same time
 
I feel they should be more specific - something as vague as not renting your points "regularly or frequently" could scare average members who have legitimate needs to rent points more than Disney might think.
Disney would rather have people thinking about renting be over cautious though.
For example, what if you have one big contract but your travel plans have changed and you now need fewer points, but don't want to sell the whole thing. If you used say 70% of the points yourself annually and rented the remaining 30% each year is that against the rules?
I think the language floated today that suggests routinely renting a significant percentage of your dues every year could put you in the crosshairs. My guess is that renting 5000 points a year is definitely going to be a problem whether they cutoff at 1000, 500, or 250 is probably going to depend on a variety of factors and most especially how well they are moving their own hotel inventory.
The big thing about this is that now that one has to attest, and that added words that it did in terms it did...I think makes it easier for DVC to hold an owner of a membership accountable if they want to.
I agree and I think it will be easier for them to cancel spec rentals after a member has said it’s for personal use at 11mo mark and then rents it out changing names several weeks later.

I think Disney is giving a final warning to people who ignored the personal use and prohibition on commercial use with this box.

At some point, I expect a handful of those to be dealt with in a very high profile way. At least, that's what will happen if they follow in the footsteps of some other developers. And that will inject further FUD into the market place. I can tell you from watching this play out elsewhere that it is VERY EFFECTIVE to cancel a handful of rentals at the last minute with no notice, because those guests post everywhere, and the chilling effect on the market is immediate and thorough.
One potential option for Disney is to contact the renter (you have to put in name and email) either at booking or perhaps at the time they link the reservation in MDE/DL app, and let them know that it’s been flagged as a commercial rental and cancelled. Doing it around the 60 day mark (or better for Disney, the 29 day mark) would still get a lot of outraged guests warning everybody else but spare the drama of guest showing up with nowhere to stay.
Commercial renters know who they are and so does Disney. The member who rents every now and then isnt what they are targeting. There are masses of people who rent more reservations than they stay year after year. If you wonder hey is this commercial? Maybe you are renting too much
I actually fear it is the opposite. I think there are a lot of people here afraid of being commercial renters who rent less than 20% of their points a couple years a decade, then there are other people who are confident they aren’t commercial renters because they “only rent enough to cover all of their dues and trip costs” each year. 🤪
As someone who is considering a resale contract and hoping to rent out the points every other year is this something I should be concerned about?
If you mean all the points I would absolutely tell you to be concerned. If you mean you might have 10% of your points to rent every other year, it’s less of a concern…nobody knows at this point but I think it would be risky to buy with the expectation of renting more than 10% of your points right now.
Having to testify that each reservation is for personal use may be intended to reduce the number of spec reservations. Someone who books a room, checks the box, and then changes the name on the reservation a short time later, and repeats this many times a year, should arouse suspicion, especially if the new names are different each time.

Someone who genuinely can't use their points for the upcoming year should be waiting to book until they have someone to use the points.
Could not agree with you more. Stopping spec rentals wouldn’t fix all the frustrations with the system, but it absolutely would ensure that the most desirable rooms on the most desirable dates are going to actual DVC members who made a long term commitment to the DVC program and not the corporations with the fastest software.

I am trying to think of the supply/demand impacts:
  1. The mega-renters will probably dump their contracts, flooding the resale market with supply and making values go down.
  2. The casual renters will probably get better money when renting their points, as they would no longer be competing with the mega-renters.
  3. The customers booking rentals will probably have to pay more due to Point #2. Maybe some of them will buy into DVC which may partially offset Point #1?
In my simplistic view, wait for resale prices to go down, buy a contract, and start renting out your points "casually".
I don’t believe that “casual” renters will be spared if it’s a large chunk of their contracts, but otherwise agree that’s how I would expect the market to be impacted.
This has already happened over the last nine months, particularly with AUL and SSR. The flood came in stages starting around October. It will be interesting to see if this causes people to sell a lot more contracts. But my sense is, the wave already happened--now we'll get ripples.
I don’t think we’ve seen much dumping of BWV/AKV/BCV/CCV— so maybe we only get ripples at some resorts but I’d expect significant movement at others.
I would suspect that there would be a moratorium on any reservations made before 6/1. If that aspirational family trip is on a reservation made after 6/1, where the member had to click on that check box, then the disappointment sits squarely on the member.
I think Disney could be looking at data for reservations and stays prior to 6/1, but would not expect them to be cancelling reservations made before the changes yesterday.
I disagree. The disappointment is in my eyes is of the unsuspecting family that didn't know a box to check existed and thought they could finally afford a family trip to Disney by renting points from a member.
Now Disney has cancelled their room because it was made by someone that rents commercially and they have nowhere to stay.
This is why I think it makes sense for Disney to contact them at the 60/30/7 day mark. You still have time to figure out plan B, but you’re in a real bind thanks to trying to rent from a commercial renter.
Well this actually did happen to friends of ours with a room being rented and then cancelled. They were never given the full story of what happened ie Disney cancelled, Owner cancelled, contract sold, dues weren't paid etc. Luckily DVC Rental Store did make it right for them.
do the commercial renters get insurance coverage or would they be taking the massive losses if somebody shows up with no room? 😬
ohh if you are on FB there is a group that has very hot take on what this means and they are not happy stating DVC has violated its contract and contact attorneys ... Not sure if I can share the whole thing that was posted or the page here so I wont. They said this though which is seemingly just hearsay at this point. "Other sources have suggested that as of 1 PM today, DVC is no longer allowing guest modifications. It is unclear at this point if that is simply a ban on modifying primary guests, or an outright ban, such as adding or changing any guests"

Disclaimer I do not agree with the above just sharing info I thought was juicy.
I quit FB but would almost consider reactivating for this…
 
A few negatives if they do crackdown hard

-Reducing the new number of try before you buy people could well impact direct sales by a couple of %
-New people also spend more at Disney
-Less owners willing to risk renting, might mean less happy owners who just spend less when they do travel

We all want them to stop commercial renters snagging desirable rooms and advertising them at $25-30pp but don’t throw us under the truck at the same time

You are still gong to have high demand rooms being rented and my guess is we could see just as many.

Think about it…if someone has to rent fewer times occasionally…are they just going to rent on demand or try for those popular rooms and make more?

I know which one I’m doing.
 
Disney would rather have people thinking about renting be over cautious though.

I think the language floated today that suggests routinely renting a significant percentage of your dues every year could put you in the crosshairs. My guess is that renting 5000 points a year is definitely going to be a problem whether they cutoff at 1000, 500, or 250 is probably going to depend on a variety of factors and most especially how well they are moving their own hotel inventory.

I agree and I think it will be easier for them to cancel spec rentals after a member has said it’s for personal use at 11mo mark and then rents it out changing names several weeks later.

I think Disney is giving a final warning to people who ignored the personal use and prohibition on commercial use with this box.


One potential option for Disney is to contact the renter (you have to put in name and email) either at booking or perhaps at the time they link the reservation in MDE/DL app, and let them know that it’s been flagged as a commercial rental and cancelled. Doing it around the 60 day mark (or better for Disney, the 29 day mark) would still get a lot of outraged guests warning everybody else but spare the drama of guest showing up with nowhere to stay.

I actually fear it is the opposite. I think there are a lot of people here afraid of being commercial renters who rent less than 20% of their points a couple years a decade, then there are other people who are confident they aren’t commercial renters because they “only rent enough to cover all of their dues and trip costs” each year. 🤪

If you mean all the points I would absolutely tell you to be concerned. If you mean you might have 10% of your points to rent every other year, it’s less of a concern…nobody knows at this point but I think it would be risky to buy with the expectation of renting more than 10% of your points right now.

Could not agree with you more. Stopping spec rentals wouldn’t fix all the frustrations with the system, but it absolutely would ensure that the most desirable rooms on the most desirable dates are going to actual DVC members who made a long term commitment to the DVC program and not the corporations with the fastest software.


I don’t believe that “casual” renters will be spared if it’s a large chunk of their contracts, but otherwise agree that’s how I would expect the market to be impacted.

I don’t think we’ve seen much dumping of BWV/AKV/BCV/CCV— so maybe we only get ripples at some resorts but I’d expect significant movement at others.

I think Disney could be looking at data for reservations and stays prior to 6/1, but would not expect them to be cancelling reservations made before the changes yesterday.

This is why I think it makes sense for Disney to contact them at the 60/30/7 day mark. You still have time to figure out plan B, but you’re in a real bind thanks to trying to rent from a commercial renter.

do the commercial renters get insurance coverage or would they be taking the massive losses if somebody shows up with no room? 😬

I quit FB but would almost consider reactivating for this…

Remember, though, personal use does not mean it can’t be a rental.

It states that what is not personal use is frequent and regular rentals.

A spec rental can and will still count as allowed as long as that membership isn’t engaging in frequent and regular rentals.

So, I do not think you are going to see DVC canceling a reservation because of a name change. It doesn’t fit with the language.

And, as shared, they did not define frequent and regular rentals…but as an owner, I know that as long as I am not renting frequently or regularly:! I am within my rights as an owner to rent.
 
One potential option for Disney is to contact the renter (you have to put in name and email) either at booking or perhaps at the time they link the reservation in MDE/DL app, and let them know that it’s been flagged as a commercial rental and cancelled. Doing it around the 60 day mark (or better for Disney, the 29 day mark) would still get a lot of outraged guests warning everybody else but spare the drama of guest showing up with nowhere to stay.
This is a very important point often (almost always) lost in the conversation. DVC doesn't need to wait until the day of check-in to notify a renter that their reservation has been cancelled. They have the lead guest info and can very easily notify the renter of cancellation at the 60 or 30-day mark. It will still have a negative impact (need to make a new reservation, clawing back their deposit), but Disney could also offer a replacement DVC room (or regular hotel room) for cash at an appropriate discount to build some good will and really focus the animus on the member.
 
Remember, though, personal use does not mean it can’t be a rental.

It states that what is not personal use is frequent and regular rentals.

A spec rental can and will still count as allowed as long as that membership isn’t engaging in frequent and regular rentals.

So, I do not think you are going to see DVC canceling a reservation because of a name change. It doesn’t fit with the language.

And, as shared, they did not define frequent and regular rentals…
We have disagreed on this before and I don’t want to take more of your time arguing about it now, but there is a strong contractual argument that Disney would be well within their rights to say that spec rentals are done to maximize income and therefore commercial in nature, even if you are allowed occasional rentals. Ultimately, we will see what Disney decides to do.
 
As someone who is considering a resale contract and hoping to rent out the points every other year is this something I should be concerned about?

I would not buy DVC planning to routinely rent out points. That is the definition of a pattern of behavior and something that DVC explicitly calls out.

There are a lot of people on here who rent out hundreds of points every year. It's a matter of time.
 
Since it references the POS…and following the rules for that…I would say that the reasonable aspect still exists for pre-RiV resorts because even that still has it as their sole discretion?

RIV and beyond don’t have that term so maybe that is why it’s missing from this.
Yes, you are probably right. It does say that in the event of a conflict between the new terms and the POS documents, then the POS will prevail.
 















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