DVC Response About Ebay Commercial Sellers

[Beca]

Isn't that like saying speeding and wreckless driving are the fault of the Highway Patrol for allowing so many cars on the road? Or the fault of the highway dept for building so many on ramps? More cars on the road means more speeders. It's the SPEEDERS who choose to speed and they know they are breaking the law.

More points means more people around who can use them inappropriately. We can't blame DVC.

I certainly don't blame DVC for building more resorts and the fact that that comes with more points to compete for more popular resorts. Maybe some are kicking themselves for not "buying where they want to stay."

Contemporary and AKL DVC units will RELIEVE some of the pressure on the other more popular stays. So stay tuned.

No, not exactly....you don't have to "purchase" into the highway system. A fairer comparison would be if the highway had a "fast" purchase lane (sorry, they don't have them in Texas...I cannot remember what California calls them). You know, a lane like an HOV lane that is one dedicated lane on the freeway where, if you pay a monthy fee (I think it is $5-10 per use), you can drive in this lane.

The equivalent would be if the highway patrol sold memberships to this "fast" lane, to the point that the lane was as jam-packed as the rest of the freeway.

And, if you drove past the same highway patrolman while speeding everyday for a year, only to have him stop and wave at you as you went....wouldn't you be a little "miffed" if you got a ticket after a year?

I think we are venturing into a TOTALLY different point here, but here goes. The fact of the matter is, the MORE properties DVC builds on WDW, the more they are jeopardizing many aspects of our membership:

1) Our chances of staying at our home resort (more pronounced for those at smaller resorts than those at larger ones)

2) Our value and chances of trading out via II. The one REALLY great thing about DVC, for those who have been interested in trading is that DVC has traded REALLY well thru II....mainly because it is hard to come by. However, if DVC builds many more resorts in the future, and keeps selling its "trade" features, more and more people will be trying to trade into II. There will be so many people trying to trade, that DVC will be devalued, and we will have to deposit MORE points into II to equal a one-week trade.

 

[Sammie]

Can anyone confirm this?

Confirm what, that it happened, that the twinklebug is telling the truth, that the Renter she talked to is telling the truth.

Surely you do not think anything posted here can be confirmed beyond any doubt.

All I know is Disney sent out an email that stated this was what they planned to do. When I asked MS about this prior to the email, I too was told this was what would happen.

I am not sure what type of confirmation you are requesting.

 

[Dean]

It's the same reason that the holiday weeks are the ones that are scooped up most by the commercial renters, instead of just any ol' week during the year.

I'm sure it's one factor but I am convinced it's a very small one in the overall theme. I'm sure the largest factor is actually members reserving at their home resort because they want to lock it in. It's simply that those reserving to rent are not very popular with the members of this board and as such are fair game for bashing.

I think the crux of the matter is the impact on owners. Since OKW is so large a given number of commercial rentals won't affect the owners as much.

It seems many have forgotten that those who rent are owners too. Just because they use them differently than someone else or even compete with another for a reservation doesn't make them wrong or bad. The system is set up so many of us compete with each other for what we want. Those that do it better or more aggressively will be successful a lot more often.

 

[Muushka]

Missed this thread the first time around:

"Greenban poll: Do you rent DVC points?"
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1180246&page=1&pp=15

Very interesting reading. And a few great posts by DBBN. It also brings up the topic of 'commercial' vs 'retirement' renters...

On a side note, in post #55 Disneyrsh makes a comment, but after being 'outed' by rinkwide in post #57 (even provides a link to her ebay auction) she goes back and edits all of her previous posts - including those in this thread. Curious about Disneyrsh? In post #61 the last comment made by Prez may refresh your memory.

Do I need my memory refreshed about Disneyrsh?? , no!

 

[twinklebug]

Confirm what, that it happened, that the twinklebug is telling the truth, that the Renter she talked to is telling the truth.

Surely you do not think anything posted here can be confirmed beyond any doubt.

All I know is Disney sent out an email that stated this was what they planned to do. When I asked MS about this prior to the email, I too was told this was what would happen.

I am not sure what type of confirmation you are requesting.

Thank you for your post Sammie, I had no clue what to say about OneMoreTry's request for confirmation... no one possible could unless there's someone out there with access to my eBay account and the messages that were there before I cleaned-house Or, perhaps she's looking for someone who had their reservation through the eBayer cancelled. Odds are against us finding a DISser who fits this though as we're really a fairly small community compared to eBay.

If it helps anyone she was renting full 7 day weeks and, no, I do not have the seller's ID anymore. Even if I did I'm not so sure I'd post it. The lady I messaged back and forth with was excessively nice and honest about what was going on. I really don't think she thought renting via eBay was against any rules and I'd feel bad harming her reputation.

What I don't understand is why they pulled hers and haven't pulled some of the other guys' auctions.

 

[keys2kingdom]

Thank you for your post Sammie, I had no clue what to say about OneMoreTry's request for confirmation... no one possible could unless there's someone out there with access to my eBay account and the messages that were there before I cleaned-house Or, perhaps she's looking for someone who had their reservation through the eBayer cancelled. Odds are against us finding a DISser who fits this though as we're really a fairly small community compared to eBay.

If it helps anyone she was renting full 7 day weeks and, no, I do not have the seller's ID anymore. Even if I did I'm not so sure I'd post it. The lady I messaged back and forth with was excessively nice and honest about what was going on. I really don't think she thought renting via eBay was against any rules and I'd feel bad harming her reputation.

What I don't understand is why they pulled hers and haven't pulled some of the other guys' auctions.

I'm guessing she was probably pretty 'big time' if they actually threatened her with legal action.

P.S. Thanks for posting your information about your encounter, I think it's safe to say the crackdown has begun. Just how widespread it is we will never know.

 

[minnie61650]

Thank you for your post Sammie, I had no clue what to say about OneMoreTry's request for confirmation... unless there's someone out there with access to my eBay account and the messages that were there before I cleaned-house

If it helps anyone, no I do not have the seller's ID anymore, and even if I did I'm not so sure I'd post it. The lady I messaged back and forth with was excessively nice and honest about what was going on. I really don't think she thought renting via eBay was against any rules.

What I don't understand is why they pulled hers and haven't pulled some of the other guys' auctions.

Why did they pull hers and not some of the others?

Maybe they do not have all the info they need before going after the others.

Maybe it is like when the Music companies decided to sue people who downloaded music from free sites. (the Napster case)

Sometimes the smaller fish get caught in the net while the bigger fish swim free.

I think DVC will not be able to catch all the "commercial renters" but they be may be
able to catch enough that even the big fish will lay low and maybe even some (I hope most) will stop the "commercial renting."

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Beca]

Confirm what, that it happened, that the twinklebug is telling the truth, that the Renter she talked to is telling the truth.

Surely you do not think anything posted here can be confirmed beyond any doubt.

All I know is Disney sent out an email that stated this was what they planned to do. When I asked MS about this prior to the email, I too was told this was what would happen.

I am not sure what type of confirmation you are requesting.

Now I am really confused. According to you, I should not believe what someone posted that Disney legal said, but I should believe what someone posted that a commercial renter said?

FWIW, I happen to believe both. However, you seem to be okay "picking and choosing" what you believe. I don't get it.

 

[Beca]

I would also like to point out the thread about Disney legal was posted by Dumbo71 who has all of 21 posts.

Yikes!! I am really sorry, but this just sounds to me. I have some VERY knowledgeable friends in the arena of DVC who lurk often here, but do not post. Or, maybe it was a "lurker" who, once he/she posted, was reminded why they do not post here very much, and left...vowing not to return to share information with such a group of piranhas!!

Discounting someone's word because they do not have many posts would be equivalent to discounting someone's opinion because they do not actually own DVC.... I mean, one could argue that no one could TRULY know how it feels to own DVC until the money has been spent. At least, if Dumbo 71 has access to MS, we know for sure that they are members.

 

[keys2kingdom]

Or, maybe it was a "lurker" who, once he/she posted, was reminded why they do not post here very much, and left...vowing not to return to share information with such a group of piranhas!!

Yes, and let's not forget that Jay Foster, the originator of this venerable thread, had only 28 posts himself. And as I recall, Minnie, you championed him quite gallantly.

Number of posts doesn't necessarily mean anything, it's the content that matters.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program......

 

[Beca]

Yes, and let's not forget that Jay Foster, the originator of this venerable thread, had only 28 posts himself. And as I recall, Minnie, you championed him quite gallantly.

Number of posts doesn't necessarily mean anything, it's the content that matters.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program......

Yeah, but what do you know keys??!! You only have a "measley" 541 posts!!

JUST KIDDING!!!!

 

[jmatias]

What I don't understand is why they pulled hers and haven't pulled some of the other guys' auctions.

The answer to your question lies in the fact that her DVC rentals were for 7 days. Her DVC rental weeks were most likely I.I. (Interval Int'l) exchanges into DVC and it is against I.I. rules to rent an exchange. She was most likely "caught" and Interval, not Disney cancelled her exchanges.

Jen

 

[minnie61650]

Yikes!! I am really sorry, but this just sounds to me. I have some VERY knowledgeable friends in the arena of DVC who lurk often here, but do not post. Or, maybe it was a "lurker" who, once he/she posted, was reminded why they do not post here very much, and left...vowing not to return to share information with such a group of piranhas!!

Discounting someone's word because they do not have many posts would be equivalent to discounting someone's opinion because they do not actually own DVC.... I mean, one could argue that no one could TRULY know how it feels to own DVC until the money has been spent. At least, if Dumbo 71 has access to MS, we know for sure that they are members.

You are correct Becca. I will stand corrected.

For the record it was not the number of posts that bothered me but rather the fact that the Disney legal thread was the very first thread that Dumbo71 ever posted and he/she never posted a reply to her/his thread. Nor has he/she returned to look at the replies.
It just seemed kinda out of the ordinary.
I know when I posted my first thread I eagerly waited for the replies. But maybe Dumbo71 did not care about others views. I do not know.

Jay posted he was leaving the DIS for good and if you noticed I only "championed him" once he stopped posting.

 

[minnie61650]

Yes, and let's not forget that Jay Foster, the originator of this venerable thread, had only 28 posts himself. And as I recall, Minnie, you championed him quite gallantly.

Number of posts doesn't necessarily mean anything, it's the content that matters.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program......

You are correct.

I did champion Jay quite gallantly after his last post.
I felt sad he was driven away by mushpurple and Dumbo71 among others.

 

[greenban]

Missed this thread the first time around:

"Greenban poll: Do you rent DVC points?"
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1180246&page=1&pp=15

Very interesting reading. And a few great posts by DBBN. It also brings up the topic of 'commercial' vs 'retirement' renters...

On a side note, in post #55 Disneyrsh makes a comment, but after being 'outed' by rinkwide in post #57 (even provides a link to her ebay auction) she goes back and edits all of her previous posts - including those in this thread. Curious about Disneyrsh? In post #61 the last comment made by Prez may refresh your memory.

Serves me right for suggesting others check my old posts!

So how do I edit and delete them?

Just kidding!



-Tony

However, maybe I should repost the poll, and see how the recent MS rule changes/enforcement/actions and DISboard discoveries affected our communities views on Renting now.

My predicition, alot more will vote against it, and fewer renters will post, to avoid attack and 'outting'

In fact here is the link to the new poll, lets see how the 'mood' of our community has or has not changed.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=14325887#post14325887

 

[minnie61650]

This would be one of the actions taken on an "individual basis" that I have been "alluding" to, but could not speak of. The poster who posted on another thread that they had spoken to Disney legal, and Disney legal said they didn't know what steps would be taken against individuals was told incorrectly.

Let's just say that with these "individuals", the "punishment will fit the crime". That is what I was told.

OK -- so I guess you are saying the person that spoke to Disney legal was told something incorrectly.

Now I am really confused. According to you, I should not believe what someone posted that Disney legal said, but I should believe what someone posted that a commercial renter said?

FWIW, I happen to believe both. However, you seem to be okay "picking and choosing" what you believe. I don't get it.

Now you say you believe both.

Yes, I too believed both but I also said the person who posted about Disney legal might not have gotten all the correct info.

So you agree that Dumbo71 might not have gotten all the facts correct, that he/she may have misunderstood something or been misinformed?

If you know all the straight facts please enlighten the rest of us with your knowledge.

I have been watching DVC timeshares auctioned on ebay for the last 3 years or so and there have been changes going on in the last week or so.
I am quite curios as to what is happening on ebay in regard to DVC rentals.

Thanks Becca.

 

[Beca]

OK -- so I guess you are saying the person that spoke to Disney legal was told something incorrectly.



Now you say you believe both.

Yes, I too believed both but I also said the person who posted about Disney legal might not have gotten all the correct info.

So you agree that Dumbo71 might not have gotten all the facts correct, that he/she may have misunderstood something or been misinformed?

If you know all the straight facts please enlighten the rest of us with your knowledge.

I have been watching DVC timeshares auctioned on ebay for the last 3 years or so and there have been changes going on in the last week or so.
I am quite curios as to what is happening on ebay in regard to DVC rentals.

Thanks Becca.

No, what I am saying is that I BELIEVE both....meaining, even though I think the person in Disney legal might might not have known ALL the facts (or more likely, didn't want to share ALL the facts), most of what the Dumbo 71 posted is accurate to what I was told as well (I have a couple of "sources" at DVC). I don't think Dumbo71 was making anything up to , as others have suggested.

I also believe the person who said the rentals were being cancelled. That also goes with what I have heard DVC was planning to do. I believe BOTH posters were posting the God's honest truth, as they knew it. I do, however, based on MY information, think the person in Disney legal was being truthful....to the extent that they could. I think they might've felt that revealing "more" could get them fired....since all calls at Disney legal are recorded.

Sorry you were so upset by my post. Truthfully, I think you can have a great knowledge of DVC whether or not you are a member. I just thought your reference comparing how many posts someone has to how truthful/knowledgeable someone is, to be rather snarky. After your post, I went and read all the posts by dumbo 71. He/she found this board on July 17th, and have been SSR owners for awhile. He(I'm going to leave out the she from now on) posted on several different threads, and tried to be helpful, offering others their experiences. He was a totally "harmless" poster. Then, he posted about calling Disney legal (he said he did it because he rented his points sometimes and was nervous...makes total sense to me). He was KIND enough to share a conversation with us, and the DVC "wolves" proceeded to take it apart!! So yes, he has not been back. My guess is that he decided NOT to help such mean-spirited people who wouldn't believe him anyway!! And yet, instead of feeling bad for how they behaved, when I reference the post, people FURTHER insult the integrity of the poster...not by anything he did or did not say, but rather by the number of post he has, and by the fact that he hasn't "come back" to the boards!!! One would just have to ask themselves..."Why would he???" He's brave enough to call Disney legal while others "speculate", kind enough to share the conversation with us, and get crucified....now, he's a liar because he "disappeared"? Give me break??!! I beg you.....go back and read his posts...see for yourself how kind/helpful he was to others, and then tell me if the behavior towards him was warranted?

But you're right about one thing....some of us who have more posts are a little more "thick-skinned" than those who have fewer posts. We've all been on the receiving end of being flamed, and have "stuck around" long enough to tell about it. Liars are hurtful to the dis community. And if someone has "proof" that someone is lying (especially to make $$$), I am all for getting that person to leave the dis. However, this "mob mentality" has become much more of a "If you say something I disagree with, I will discredit you, if possible....or, if I cannot discredit you, I will just call you a liar on the boards," mentality. If I was a "new person" on the boards, and was treated that badly....it would've been the last day I checked these boards again....EVER!!!

As far as what is going on at ebay with rentals? I don't know....I hardly EVER check those screens...I have MANY other "happier" things to do with my time. But, if you say changes are going on....I believe you. In all likelihood, it could be what dumbo 71 said at the end of his post:

He (Disney legal) said it (action taken against commercial renters) could range from cancelled ressies to a written warning, to suspension of DVC accounts for violating the rules of the POS.

Wait a second....isn't that pretty much the same thing that someone posted about ebay's ressies being cancelled??? Interesting....we could believe her, but not dumbo 71???

 

[minnie61650]

No, what I am saying is that I BELIEVE both....meaining, even though I think the person in Disney legal might might not have known ALL the facts (or more likely, didn't want to share ALL the facts), most of what the Dumbo 71 posted is accurate to what I was told as well (I have a couple of "sources" at DVC). I don't think Dumbo71 was making anything up to , as others have suggested.

I also believe the person who said the rentals were being cancelled. That also goes with what I have heard DVC was planning to do. I believe BOTH posters were posting the God's honest truth, as they knew it. I do, however, based on MY information, think the person in Disney legal was being truthful....to the extent that they could. I think they might've felt that revealing "more" could get them fired....since all calls at Disney legal are recorded.

Sorry you were so upset by my post. Truthfully, I think you can have a great knowledge of DVC whether or not you are a member. I just thought your reference comparing how many posts someone has to how truthful/knowledgeable someone is, to be rather snarky. After your post, I went and read all the posts by dumbo 71. He/she found this board on July 17th, and have been SSR owners for awhile. He(I'm going to leave out the she from now on) posted on several different threads, and tried to be helpful, offering others their experiences. He was a totally "harmless" poster. Then, he posted about calling Disney legal (he said he did it because he rented his points sometimes and was nervous...makes total sense to me). He was KIND enough to share a conversation with us, and the DVC "wolves" proceeded to take it apart!! So yes, he has not been back. My guess is that he decided NOT to help such mean-spirited people who wouldn't believe him anyway!! And yet, instead of feeling bad for how they behaved, when I reference the post, people FURTHER insult the integrity of the poster...not by anything he did or did not say, but rather by the number of post he has, and by the fact that he hasn't "come back" to the boards!!! One would just have to ask themselves..."Why would he???" He's brave enough to call Disney legal while others "speculate", kind enough to share the conversation with us, and get crucified....now, he's a liar because he "disappeared"? Give me break??!! I beg you.....go back and read his posts...see for yourself how kind/helpful he was to others, and then tell me if the behavior towards him was warranted?

But you're right about one thing....some of us who have more posts are a little more "thick-skinned" than those who have fewer posts. We've all been on the receiving end of being flamed, and have "stuck around" long enough to tell about it. Liars are hurtful to the dis community. And if someone has "proof" that someone is lying (especially to make $$$), I am all for getting that person to leave the dis. However, this "mob mentality" has become much more of a "If you say something I disagree with, I will discredit you, if possible....or, if I cannot discredit you, I will just call you a liar on the boards," mentality. If I was a "new person" on the boards, and was treated that badly....it would've been the last day I checked these boards again....EVER!!!

As far as what is going on at ebay with rentals? I don't know....I hardly EVER check those screens...I have MANY other "happier" things to do with my time. But, if you say changes are going on....I believe you. In all likelihood, it could be what dumbo 71 said at the end of his post:

He (Disney legal) said it (action taken against commercial renters) could range from cancelled ressies to a written warning, to suspension of DVC accounts for violating the rules of the POS.

Wait a second....isn't that pretty much the same thing that someone posted about ebay's ressies being cancelled??? Interesting....we could believe her, but not dumbo 71???

Becca
Thank you for your reply.
I appreciate your candor.
I am very sorry that you completely misunderstood my post about Dumbo71.
I never said that I did not believe him/her.
Apparently you read between the lines and misunderstood what I was saying.
I was not trying to be snarky. I was not questioning Dumbo71's knowledge but rather the knowledge of the person he/she spoke to at Disney legal.
I admit I was a little miffed at the way Dumbo71 treated Jay Foster but I did not doubt that Dumbo71 did speak to someone at Disney legal. I just questioned how accurate the info was because as you said yourself "even though I think the person in Disney legal might not have known ALL the facts [or more likely, didn't want to share ALL the facts)". That was what I trying to say. I just did not explain my thoughts as clearly as you.

I apologize to you and to Dumbo71 and to anyone else who misunderstood what I was saying.

Thanks again.

 

[minnie61650]

And yet, instead of feeling bad for how they behaved, when I reference the post, people FURTHER insult the integrity of the poster...not by anything he did or did not say, but rather by the number of post he has, and by the fact that he hasn't "come back" to the boards!!! One would just have to ask themselves..."Why would he???" He's brave enough to call Disney legal while others "speculate", kind enough to share the conversation with us, and get crucified....now, he's a liar because he "disappeared"? Give me break??!! I beg you.....go back and read his posts...see for yourself how kind/helpful he was to others, and then tell me if the behavior towards him was warranted?

You see this where you misread my thoughts.
You thought because I said he /she "disappeared" that I was labeling him/her a liar. I never said that. The fact that he/she "disappeared" makes him/her all the more credible in my eyes.

It has been my experience that when someone lies they will stick around to read the replies and gloat. I simply stated I was troubled because Dumbo71 did not come back to the boards.

If you remember I was also troubled that Jay Foster has not returned to the boards.

 

[Sammie]

Now I am really confused. According to you, I should not believe what someone posted that Disney legal said, but I should believe what someone posted that a commercial renter said?

FWIW, I happen to believe both. However, you seem to be okay "picking and choosing" what you believe. I don't get it.

Actually it is not picking and chosing. There is always more to the story than what is shared here.

Suffice it to say we agree to disagree.

I know for a fact some Ebay renters have been contacted and their rentals have been removed. I know for a fact that Disney sent an email about their intentions to the members and personally I have no reason to doubt they will do what they said they would do. Anything else truly does not matter.

I am not saying Dumbo was not accurate, I just find it interesting he or she won't reply to PMs. Why would a request for additional info be threatening.