DVC Response About Ebay Commercial Sellers

[calypso*a*go-go]

how many rentals have you seen at ssr for sold out weeks? but many have complained about seeing sold out weeks for bcv/bwv do we have another mushpurple here? only asking politly

No...you don't.

What is this, the Donner party? We've already eaten mushpurple alive and now we're looking for our next victim? Geez, everybody go have a bowl of oatmeal instead -- it's better for your heart!

Here's the deal: Why does it even matter if SSR/OKW owners try to book at the smaller resorts...isn't that the whole purpose of the home resort advantage? Isn't that why they have 11 and 7 month booking windows? I don't think SSR itself (or OKW) is the problem...it's just the sheer number of new members that have been added to the mix. To me it doesn't make a difference what resort they buy into because I honestly don't think they will stay at that resort exclusively (whether it be by choice, or because they waited too long to make the ressie). So everyone just needs to get the chip off their shoulder and move on.

 

[LIFERBABE]

Well said!

I think there was definitely a lot of shilling going on ... as evidenced by this thread ... someone popped in and blamed SSR owners and then was trying to deflect towards the OP. In fact, I was waiting for the pitchforks and torches to be passed out.

It was all just a way to deflect from the real problem ... and since there were some so eager to jump on the SSR-bashing, it make it easy.

But, like you said, SSR points @ 11 months? How? I understand point morphing, but let's seriously consider that ... why would you buy SSR at $90+/point to morph when you can get OKW or VB or HH contracts for $70-75 point and morph those instead?

EXACTLY!! And we are supposed to believe that people are paying premiums to purchase BCV contracts on the resale market to morph and rent SSR ressies Not to mention paying the higher maintenance fees for those BCV points and also, 1 click on the RTB tells you, that most renters are wanting to stay at BCV and BWV and most are willing to pay a premium to there. The cheaper points at SSR will never make up for the higher costs related to BCV.
As the kids say, Im just keeping it real

And Beca, I never said shill renters should take ALL of the blame. But SSR was taking more than its fair share of the Blame. Broad strokes go both ways. I understand your stance, I just dont agree. And many of those threads were locked or deleted, but anyone that has been on these boards more than 6 months, knows exactly what I am talking about. They may not agree, but they know.

And if DVC only allowed me to stay at BCV when I purchased, I would not have purchased at any DVC. The idea of returning to Disney often is a great concept but I do like the different resort experiences. Just like Vegas, we like to try out the different hotels on The Strip.

 

[tmt martins]

Well you can blame me all you want I bought SSR as I like the location as well as the 12 extra years.

However I will try the others out at the 7 month window but here's the thing.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO ABOUT THE E_BAY and trying to divert this thread is shameful and falling into Mush's hand .

Rentees are a problem because it their business to be avail and make important weeks that they know will sell out and if they don't get their price just cancel and morph those points into something else.

STAY on Track here folks and lets try to keep up with the commercial renters and see if we can find some more that need to be reported.


Oh yea and we use to be able to make ADR's at about 30 days and still get into what we wanted but those days are gone now as well 180 +10 or you get scraps.I guess thats SSR and the DVC's fault for offering the DDP as well.

 

[diznyfanatic]

I'm guessing that the people responsible for a lot of the booking problems are just sitting back and loving it that while people here are so busy pointing fingers and arguing with each other, one of the major issues gets lost.

The other unknown that may be playing a factor in these booking issues is that the number of current unsold DVC inventory points may have been drastically reduced due to new sales which added new members to the mix fighting for reservation space. Previously, just because Disney had it in their inventory as unsold points available to rent, didn't mean it was being sold and booked.

We just don't have enough information to know everything that might have changed which brought this all to the forefront or caused us to view it differently.

As I said, commercial renting hurts ALL of us and in the end, when enough people have been added to the system, it won't matter where you currently own, or what points are used for morphing. Members could have been added to the system by purchasing at SSR or CRV or VAKL or Timbuctoo.

The possibility exists that every resort will ultimately be booked solid during peak times by commercial renters who have reserved those times for commercial renting purposes.

It is called "peak season" for a reason. An above average number of people that need or want to travel during certain times.

There simply aren't enough rooms anywhere in DVC during these times for owners and commercial renters to coexist in the current system.

And THAT's the real issue.

 

[LisaS]

The other issue is who gets peak weeks. Right now they go to owners who are willing to book exactly 11 months out.

And they also go to nonmembers who purchase those peak weeks on ebay from commercial renters who call right at 11 months and book as many villas as they can for that time period.

If I want a standard view villa at BWV in early December and I forget to call right at 9am, I will probably end up on a waiting list. If I later see a standard view villa available for that same week from commercial renters on ebay, that's just not right. It's also bad business for Disney. Why should someone pay thousands of dollars to join DVC if they can get the prime weeks they really want on ebay, without making a 36-year commitment to Disney?

To me, it's right up there with ticket scalping. Based on my avatar, it's probably no surprise to hear I'm a fan of the Simpsons. There is an episode where Homer camps out all night in a line to buy tickets for a very popular event. There is only one person ahead of him in line so he figures "no problem". Unfortunately, that person buys tens of thousands of tickets and after completing the transaction, the person in the box office puts up a "SOLD OUT" sign in the window! After seeing how many contracts some of these commercial renters own, I feel like that's what we're up against. D'oh!

 

[Lewisc]

Not to nit pick but, absence morphing, the week is going to a member who books at the 11 month mark. Some members will be personally using the week, some members may be giving the week to family members/friends and some members may chose to sell their reservation.

The fact is Disney decided to allocate peak times based on who calls first. Get rid of the distortion caused by morphing and peak times, Christmas, and peak reservaions (standard studio at BWV) will still go very fast.

So many members and people selling reservations book Sunday-Thursday to save points. What happens with the weekends. Does Disney wind up selling them through CRO?

And they also go to nonmembers who purchase those peak weeks on ebay from commercial renters who call right at 11 months and book as many villas as they can for that time period.

If I want a standard view villa at BWV in early December and I forget to call right at 9am, I will probably end up on a waiting list. If I later see a standard view villa available for that same week from commercial renters on ebay, that's just not right. It's also bad business for Disney. Why should someone pay thousands of dollars to join DVC if they can get the prime weeks they really want on ebay, without making a 36-year commitment to Disney?

To me, it's right up there with ticket scalping. Based on my avatar, it's probably no surprise to hear I'm a fan of the Simpsons. There is an episode where Homer camps out all night in a line to buy tickets for a very popular event. There is only one person ahead of him in line so he figures "no problem". Unfortunately, that person buys tens of thousands of tickets and after completing the transaction, the person in the box office puts up a "SOLD OUT" sign in the window! After seeing how many contracts some of these commercial renters own, I feel like that's what we're up against. D'oh!

 

[diznyfanatic]

Not to nit pick but, absence morphing, the week is going to a member who books at the 11 month mark. Some members will be personally using the week, some members may be giving the week to family members/friends and some members may chose to sell their reservation.

The fact is Disney decided to allocate peak times based on who calls first. Get rid of the distortion caused by morphing and peak times, Christmas, and peak reservaions (standard studio at BWV) will still go very fast.

So many members and people selling reservations book Sunday-Thursday to save points. What happens with the weekends. Does Disney wind up selling them through CRO?

Let's say for arguments sake that when the dust settled on all of the occupancy calculations for peak season and other high occupancy times that DVC figured 52% of DVC owners would want to book their home resort to stay at during, let's say, Christmas Week.

Well as it turns out, I'm not competing with only 52% of other BWV or VWL owners who actually want stay at BWV or VWL during Christmas. I'm actually competing against 97% of BWV or VWL owners who commercially rent those reservations and have no intention of using them themselves.

So I go from having about a 50% chance of getting what I want to only about a 3% chance of getting what I want because of the commercial renters.

I made up those numbers but my point illustrates that what is happening is very wrong in my opinion.

 

[LisaS]

Not to nit pick but, absence morphing, the week is going to a member who books at the 11 month mark. Some members will be personally using the week, some members may be giving the week to family members/friends and some members may chose to sell their reservation.

The fact is Disney decided to allocate peak times based on who calls first. Get rid of the distortion caused by morphing and peak times, Christmas, and peak reservaions (standard studio at BWV) will still go very fast.

I agree with you that peak times are going to sell out regardless. But I would rather see 20 different members get one reservation each for that week at a prime time rather than one commercial renter get 20 reservations for that one week. I just see it as a fairness issue. Some might see commercial renters as enterprising but to me it just comes across as greedy.

 

[LIFERBABE]

.THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO ABOUT THE E_BAY and trying to divert this thread is shameful and falling into Mush's hand

.

Point taken tmt, and you are absolutely right! This thread did brings some things to light and I was able to make some connections too.
I will try to stay on track

 

[Deb & Bill]

Well, I know if I had $1.3 million to spend on DVC points, I buy them all where I want to stay.

 

[jdg345]

Let's say for arguments sake that when the dust settled on all of the occupancy calculations for peak season and other high occupancy times that DVC figured 52% of DVC owners would want to book their home resort to stay at during, let's say, Christmas Week.

Well as it turns out, I'm not competing with only 52% of other BWV or VWL owners who actually want stay at BWV or VWL during Christmas. I'm actually competing against 97% of BWV or VWL owners who commercially rent those reservations and have no intention of using them themselves.

So I go from having about a 50% chance of getting what I want to only about a 3% chance of getting what I want because of the commercial renters.

I made up those numbers but my point illustrates that what is happening is very wrong in my opinion.

Exactly! A commerical renter is not your average DVC'er ... your average DVC'er isn't going to use all of their point allotments during 'peak' periods. Sure, some might, but a lot of people would rather go during non-peak periods, etc. When Disney sells you your point allotments, they expect you to use them throughout the year. They know that more people will tend to use their points during 'peak' time (hence, peak), but they also know that there will be plenty of reservations that fit the needs of others during these non-peak periods. And even those that will use their points during peak probably wont use their whole UY for a peak period and spread it out to an additional visit, etc.

Enter the commercial renter. They goal is to take all their points and book as many rooms as they can during peak periods. This is a business. They want to get the most bang for their buck, and the best way to do that is to sell when demand is highest. *shrug*

Me, personally, I hate peak period ... I like to go when things are quiet. Sure, I'd like to make it to F&WF one year ... but ... not holding my breath for a BWV or BCV reservation when I get ready to go *shrug*. Unless I wanna buy a week on eBay for 2k.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

Well, I know if I had $1.3 million to spend on DVC points, I buy them all where I want to stay.

I with you!

Perhaps the suite being made in the castle for the "Year Of A Million Dreams" will be available soon as the new and improved CRV -- Castle Roof Villa!!! (Sorry all you Contemporary fans, we've just discovered the "best kept secret".)

 

[Dean]

Exactly! A commerical renter is not your average DVC'er ... your average DVC'er isn't going to use all of their point allotments during 'peak' periods. Sure, some might, but a lot of people would rather go during non-peak periods, etc. When Disney sells you your point allotments, they expect you to use them throughout the year. They know that more people will tend to use their points during 'peak' time (hence, peak), but they also know that there will be plenty of reservations that fit the needs of others during these non-peak periods. And even those that will use their points during peak probably wont use their whole UY for a peak period and spread it out to an additional visit, etc.

Enter the commercial renter. They goal is to take all their points and book as many rooms as they can during peak periods. This is a business. They want to get the most bang for their buck, and the best way to do that is to sell when demand is highest. *shrug*

Me, personally, I hate peak period ... I like to go when things are quiet. Sure, I'd like to make it to F&WF one year ... but ... not holding my breath for a BWV or BCV reservation when I get ready to go *shrug*. Unless I wanna buy a week on eBay for 2k.

I don't think there's any evidence to say that one who isn't a member and rents has any different demographics or usage patterns than a member. Just like I don't see any evidence that members take better care of the resorts than renters, if anything, I think it's the contrary. I think it's likely the members will play the system more than one who rents once or twice. IMO, the questions are very simple. Does a member have the right to rent their points and are they using them within the confines of the laws of the state in question and where they do not conflict, the rules of the resort. IMO, the rental limitation does conflict with the laws of the state as long as DVC and CRO are renting out time there. The same may actually be true of the one transfer per year as well. I find it funny and sad that people approach this with such an emotional perspective. I also feel that one who has the points should be able to use them and if that means renting them, so be it, it is the system we bought in to. I know many assumed everyone was buying for the same reason as themselves but this is not the case for everyone and you know what you do when you assume.

But I do love the posts that say 14 in a year is OK or it's OK to rent what you own but not transfer or morph points. I agree with those statements but know that many who have posted those type of sentiments don't truly feel that way. Many only want you to be able to rent distressed points or for fees only or to family or other members and some don't want you to be able to rent at all though they won't actually admit it publicly. And I find it funny when all the selfish people out there are worried and complaining that someone else will get something they may want and that that person may actually be a non member using a members reservation.

 

[jdg345]

I don't think there's any evidence to say that one who isn't a member and rents has any different demographics or usage patterns than a member. Just like I don't see any evidence that members take better care of the resorts than renters, if anything, I think it's the contrary. I think it's likely the members will play the system more than one who rents once or twice. IMO, the questions are very simple. Does a member have the right to rent their points and are they using them within the confines of the laws of the state in question and where they do not conflict, the rules of the resort. IMO, the rental limitation does conflict with the laws of the state as long as DVC and CRO are renting out time there. The same may actually be true of the one transfer per year as well. I find it funny and sad that people approach this with such an emotional perspective. I also feel that one who has the points should be able to use them and if that means renting them, so be it, it is the system we bought in to. I know many assumed everyone was buying for the same reason as themselves but this is not the case for everyone and you know what you do when you assume.

But I do love the posts that say 14 in a year is OK or it's OK to rent what you own but not transfer or morph points. I agree with those statements but know that many who have posted those type of sentiments don't truly feel that way. Many only want you to be able to rent distressed points or for fees only or to family or other members and some don't want you to be able to rent at all though they won't actually admit it publicly. And I find it funny when all the selfish people out there are worried and complaining that someone else will get something they may want and that that person may actually be a non member using a members reservation.

I see where you're coming from ... I'm just suggesting that those that rent commercially -- in that it is their income source (either primary or secondary) would want to get the most bang for their buck. That said, their demographic/pattern would be to rent as much time as they can during the 'peak periods'. Sure, they could still rent during an 'off-peak' time, but they would have less potential customers and would probably have to offer a reduced rate (though still cheaper than through CRO). If they have people fighting for the reservation, however, like in an auction ... more people will drive up the price. So ... sure ... they can rent off-peak and get $10-12 a point ... or ... they can rent peak and get $12-15+ a point with people falling all over themselves to bid on the auction.

It just seems they would get more bang for their buck that way.

Personally, I think renting and transferring points is fine ... but to an extent ... I don't think Disney envisioned people picking up 20k points (considering they have a 5k limit), booking all the peak weeks at 11 months and then selling them on eBay.

Basically, some entrepeneur figured a way to work around the system a bit to their benefit ... Disney is now trying to close the hole ...

I understand that you feel that someone who has the points should be able to use them anyway they see fit ... and I agree with that ... but only to the extent of what was intended by DVC. I don't think that someone with 20k points should be able to book all the prime time slots for sale on eBay or some other real-estate website.

 

[Longhairbear]

Just a thought here, but does anyone think that weeks ,dates,rooms at any of the DVC's have suddenly been freed up?
I just got off of EBay and there was only one listing for a week at a DVC. Just maybe that the commercial renters got scared off and cancelled prebooked dates. If I wanted a Christmas, Halloween, etc. date and couldn't get it,I'd call again to see if there have been any cancellations. Also have any, or many waitlists suddenly come through?

 

[minnie61650]

Sorry for the repetition, please forgive me but, Jay has not posted since august 18 and since he started he started this thread I wanted to make newcomers aware of this fact.

This is the last post (post #97 August 18,2006) that Jay posted on the DIS boards.
http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1197656&page=7&pp=15
(I did send him a PM on but he has not yet read my PM.)

My goodness! I promise I will NEVER post anything like this again and I may NEVER lurk here ever again! I'm deleting the Dis from my favorites on all my computers immediately. I'm installing a virus on all my computers which will cause the hard drives to explode. I now also request that someone come over and tar and feather me. I have already called the police on myself and they assured me that they will give me 25 years in jail for the post. Can someone come over and kick my dog while we are at it? Any other punishment someone might want to inflict or is all this punishment enough?

Mushpurple,

You may be right. I don't know. I'm only relaying what the manager told me. Did the manager lie? I don't know. Is the manager uninformed? I don't know. In any event, if DVC does stuff about this, for me, I think it is a good idea to stop the commerical renters ONLY, not people who rent a few times a year which would be silly.

Here is the link on the one that was removed or canceled or hacked into by somone or maybe I hacked into ebay myself and did it, right or maybe I created the link and it really installs a virus on your computer? Again, I don't know with 110% certainty that it was removed because of my complaint, I can only relay what I know which I already did: http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Vacation-Boardwalk-Timeshare-Rental_

In the meantime, try decaf as I suggested.

I posted this on August 20 post #249

I am sad.
I think Jay has left the DIS for good.
He is not accepting emails and I did try to PM him asking him not to leave and letting him know sometimes on threads like these members feelings get hurt.

I will keep hoping sometime soon he will log on and see my PM.

It is sad when nice people leave the DIS because others attack them.

I think mushpurple and her merry band of nay sayers drove Jay Foster away from the DIS.
I hope he returns soon so he can see mushpurple was nor right and was shrilling all of us!

 

[Deb & Bill]

Just a thought here, but does anyone think that weeks ,dates,rooms at any of the DVC's have suddenly been freed up?
I just got off of EBay and there was only one listing for a week at a DVC. Just maybe that the commercial renters got scared off and cancelled prebooked dates. If I wanted a Christmas, Halloween, etc. date and couldn't get it,I'd call again to see if there have been any cancellations. Also have any, or many waitlists suddenly come through?

Go over to Red Week and you'll find a bunch for sale on that site. And another one as well. I'll have to find that website later on.

 

[romanofam]

This is my first time on this web site. Everyone tells me that this is where to go to get sold out reservations for a much cheaper price than Disney charges. I did not read this whole post since there was just too much. I got that you guys do not like when people rent out time and that some people do this as a business. Is there something wrong with my renting time? How can I tell who on here is running a business? I noticed that some people seem like they might be. Is Gary KD or is Gary Kid (I am not sure I am remembering the name right) a business? Are there other people who are businesses? Does that mean if I pick the wrong person Disney will cancel the reservation?Is is just safer to go through Disney? I am very nervous and maybe I will just choose to stay in a value resort. I hope you do not mind that I have asked these questions. I have only been on here long enough to think that this may not be the great idea that my friends have suggested.

Thank you in advance for your frank answers to these questions.

 

[disneygrandma]

I just did an E-Bay search and found 8 listings, which was a couple less than the last time I looked. I just use a basic search with the resort name and search in Travel. I don't search with "Disney", so there could be more listings that I don't see.

I found 6 at OKW, 1 at SSR, and 1 at Boardwalk. All of these were for confirmed dates. Atleast one of the listings said they had lots more dates to choose from. I didn't see any listings for Beach Club or Wilderness Lodge.

As others have mentioned, the larger commercial renters have probably moved to other sites. Probably until things cool down with the E-Bay listings. They might return with different ID's, but I don't think they will be gone for long.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

romanofam: Most of the reservations offered for "set dates" (especially those during peak times such as Christmas, Easter, etc) are more than likely commerical renters. There are exceptions where a member has reserved dates and has an emergency and can't go...but those are typically short notice as it's too late for the member to cancel the ressie and get the points back in their account.

The frustration caused is due to the fact that many contract owners that shelled out big bucks for their memberships can't get ressies for certain dates because other members are reserving large lots at a time and putting them on auction/rental sites.

I don't know too much about the person you mentioned other than he is a long-time poster on these boards. For now, I don't think anyone has to worry about a reservation being cancelled as they (DVC) have just started laying the groundwork to go after what they deem "commercial renters". Most of us are just waiting to see what happens next.