DVC Response About Ebay Commercial Sellers

[minnie61650]

I just checked E-Bay, and here's what I found, without even much of a search:

Wilderness Lodge - 3 listings. 1 was by smw, and didn't have any dates assigned to it. 1 was by boardwalkmagic, for an October reservation. Both of these sellers had lots of comments about previous DVC trips that had been sold. The 3rd one was for a "sold out" holiday reservation in December. However, it doesn't appear that this seller has any previous comments about DVC trips.

Old Key West - 3 listings. 1 was by vacation4u, no specific dates. 1 was by smw, no specific dates. 1 was by boardwalkmagic for a sold-out Halloween week.

Beach Club Villas - 2 listings. 1 was by smw, no specific dates. 1 was by disdvcer for a "sold-out" food & wine date, and a statement that there was an additional week available also.

Boardwalk - 6 listings. 1 was by disdvcer for a "sold-out" Halloween week, with comments that 2 other additional weeks were available. 1 by smw, for a standard view, no specific dates. 1 by smw, not standard view, no specific dates. 1 by boardwalkmagic for the 1st week of October. 1 by jidivine for a standard view in December. 1 by jidivine for another standard view with a different December week.

Saratoga Springs - 3 listings. 1 by boardwalkmagic for a "sold-out" New Years week. 1 by smw, no specific dates. 1 was for Labor Day week, but this seller doesn't have any comments about previous DVC trips that were purchased.


If a listing had been removed, it was probably because it was purchased, or the time had expired on it. I don't see any evidence of a crack down by Disney on the E-Bay listings.

Sorry folks, but there are plenty of DVC rentals on eBay right now. Unless and until there is verified proof of an actual cancellation expect business as usual.

There were 17 DVC properties were listed for rent on ebay on August 17.

Today is August 23. I just did a search on Ebay using a few different key word searches.

I found 3 Disney DVC rentals up for bid.

1 (2BR) OKW by 1edd3434 ending in 2 days.
The following 2 by disdvcer
1 BWV studio ending in 7 days
1 (2BR) OKW ending in 7 days

The only auctions listed by smw are 2 vacation homes.

14 of the DVC auctions I have been watching
since August 17 have ended and none of those auctions have been relisted.

Well, rinkwide you may have expected business as usual but I think things have changed.

 

[waltfan1957]

Actually, I believe MushPurple said earlier in this thread that the problem was definitely SSR and not renters .... .

and we all now know how truthfull she/he is

 

[waltfan1957]

Also...I don't think anyone every "blamed" SSR owners. It's DVC who is responsible for this...not individual members.

sorry but there have 100's of posts suggesting this

 

[waltfan1957]

There was plenty of blame put on the SSR members. If search was not so messed up right now I would find the direct comments. Several people made statements that SSR owners bought in, due to the promotions and extra years and had no intention of staying at SSR but were going to book up weeks at BCV and BW.

There were comments made to threads about booking difficulties that SSR members were to blame due to the fact they were buying at SSR and booking elsewhere.

So yes they did blame the members. I personally think many of the comments, giving SSR a hard time for many reasons was a diversion for some of these Commercial Renters.

well put sammie

 

[Beca]

I used the term lashing not bashing. And this time, we will have to disagree.

Our commercial renter friend does not own over 2k BCV points so she can rent out at SSR. Another 2K at BWV to again rent out at SSR. Many of those contracts were purchased via resale so not like the choices were not there. Anyone (or group of someones) that can maintain over 18k points and run a business in over 2 locations did not end up with those point totals accidentally. That was by design.

But, I think a lot of people are saying renters are commercial renters are "morphing" points. It seems to me like this person actually owns enough points...they probably don't need to do a lot of "morphing". It's not like someone can say they bought 5k SSR points to book other places...they hardly own any SSR points.

And seriously, morphing points INTO SSR points from other resorts sounds like a good idea for commercial renters. Because points per night requirements are lower, it seems like a commercial renter could make even more money booking SSR, OKW, and BWV SV during "high demand" times if they were selling the ressie on ebay. Since most ebayers don't understand the "cost per night system"...a commercial renter could put less money in, and get more money out. Maybe their BCV/VWL contracts were purchased BEFORE SSR opened...then, the choice wouldn't be there. I am not saying they are DEFINITELY doing this....I just think it is as probable as anyone who says they are going the other way around.

And if it is ok for people to post their impressions then why is not ok for me to post my impression? My impression is that many of these people were shill renting on the DIS and then LASHING out and BLAMING SSR and its members for the lack of availability, To throw us off their scent. (There's no stinky scent smiley either!)

I never said you couldn't post your opinion...I think everyone should be able to post their opinions. I'm just posting mine as well. And, my opinion is that there is a lot of blaming in BOTH directions. Renters want to blame SSR, SSR owners want to blame renters. I think there is probably room to "blame" both parties if one chooses to place blame somewhere. I just think there are probably not a LOT of people who have the financial ability to own 18K points, and if they do have that money....I would think purchasing DVC and handling MANY reservations to rent out those points would actually be a bad return on money. I think most people who have that kind of $$$$ can probably find much better (and much less labor intensive) ways to invest their millions. These people are probably the exception. For their number, they may make more of a significant change than other individual owners, but as a group....I seriously doubt their effect is more significant than an entire resort's worth of owners....especially a large resort.

 

[mouseclick1]

There were 17 DVC properties were listed for rent on ebay on August 17.

Today is August 23. I just did a search on Ebay using a few different key word searches.

I found 3 Disney DVC rentals up for bid.

1 (2BR) OKW by 1edd3434 ending in 2 days.
The following 2 by disdvcer
1 BWV studio ending in 7 days
1 (2BR) OKW ending in 7 days

The only auctions listed by smw are 2 vacation homes.

14 of the DVC auctions I have been watching
since August 17 have ended and none of those auctions have been relisted.

Well, rinkwide you may have expected business as usual but I think things have changed.

I found an additional 3 at OKW, 1 at SSR, and 1 at BCV. When I search, I type in "Disney", then the name of the particular resort. Still, I agree - it definitely seems to be down from a couple of weeks ago!

 

[Beca]

sorry but there have 100's of posts suggesting this

But, Sammie posted this thread as an example...and, unless I was supposed to see something in a later post, I am assuming she is referring to the OP. I see the OP as being upset that SSR upset the system, but see no reference to blaming SSR owners. I don't know, maybe I am wrong....I just think her frustrastion was aimed at DVC...not SSR owners.

If others disagree....maybe we should ask her who her frustration was directed towards.

 

[waltfan1957]

If you look at the point totals tallyed by PrincessDadX2, you will see that out of 18,000 points owned, only 160 were SSR points. Doesnt look like this person needed to 'morph' points for BCV or BWV as they had plenty and you can make a whole heap of 5 day ressies at 60 points a pop with 2 and 3 thousand points.

And I agree with Sammie, there was plenty of blame placed on SSR owners for taking away ressies from the smaller resort owners. At 11 months NO LESS!

yeah the times we have read this but no matter how many times it was explained they still don't get it

 

[Beca]

I found an additional 3 at OKW, 1 at SSR, and 1 at BCV. When I search, I type in "Disney", then the name of the particular resort. Still, I agree - it definitely seems to be down from a couple of weeks ago!

Proof again that renters are not just renting BCV and VWL. Out of 8 properties up for rent on ebay right now:

5 are at OKW
1 is at SSR
1 is at BCV
1 is at BWV

Doesn't look like a lot of point morphing to me...unless renters are morphing to go to OKW (maybe for a better value for their points).

ETA: I am NOT trying to defend renters....I really don't think they deserve my defense (yep...I posted that the "renter" on this board had a 407 area code, and was posting that she was reserving rental homes for her use in Orlando...I didn't like it...she lied to take advantage of people). I just think the "scapegoating" of renters for what DVC needs to be held responsible for as well, is as wrong as anything else. There are probably lots of reasons for diminishing availability at each individual resort. I believe the growing number of members is probably the main reason....it is statistically supported...whereas everything else is just conjecture.

 

[Beca]

If you look at the point totals tallyed by PrincessDadX2, you will see that out of 18,000 points owned, only 160 were SSR points. Doesnt look like this person needed to 'morph' points for BCV or BWV as they had plenty and you can make a whole heap of 5 day ressies at 60 points a pop with 2 and 3 thousand points.

And I agree with Sammie, there was plenty of blame placed on SSR owners for taking away ressies from the smaller resort owners. At 11 months NO LESS!

yeah the times we have read this but no matter how many times it was explained they still don't get it

I'm not really sure that I understand what you are saying here. I agree that the renter could make a lot of ressies with their points....but, I think what people were trying to say in this thread is that renters were upsetting the system by morphing points. This renter actually OWNS BCV/BWV points. I'm not saying I am happy about one person owning 18K points....that is against DVC rules as well...probably exactly for this reason. I am just pointing out that SSR owners are CONVINCED that people like this are causing ALL the problems....I don't think that is accurate.

Maybe you can quote some posts where posters are blaming SSR OWNERS and not DVC (i.e. "the system")?

 

[waltfan1957]

Proof again that renters are not just renting BCV and VWL. Out of 8 properties up for rent on ebay right now:

5 are at OKW
1 is at SSR
1 is at BCV
1 is at BWV

Doesn't look like a lot of point morphing to me...unless renters are morphing to go to OKW (maybe for a better value for their points).

how many rentals have you seen at ssr for sold out weeks? but many have complained about seeing sold out weeks for bcv/bwv do we have another mushpurple here? only asking politly

 

[Beca]

how many rentals have you seen at ssr for sold out weeks? but many have complained about seeing sold out weeks for bcv/bwv do we have another mushpurple here? only asking politly

I don't know. Before this thread, I honestly didn't look at the rentals listed on ebay. However, what I do know is that when someone on here posted that they couldn't get a room at BCV/VWL/BWV...very often someone would come back and post that there was no room....anywhere!! I also would periodically look at the rent/trade board, and would see many people requesting dates for ressies (usually at high demand times) for ANY resort, only to be told that there was "no room at the inn".

As far as the mushpurple comment....no, I am not another mushpurple. I have 390 points (I had 540 but wasn't really using all of them, so I sold 150). I have rented my points out ONCE, transferred points out ONCE, and transferred points in (for my use only) twice....and, of course...I had to do both transfers in during the same UY (another reason why I hate that rule). I have been a member since April 2004...I think. So, if one rental and two transfers in three years makes me a commercial renter....well, then so be it. If you need futher proof of what I actually own, I would be happy to pm you my whole name so you can check this for yourself on the OC Comptrollers site.

BTW, I don't think there is a polite way to accuse someone of being a shill renter because they disagree with you....I think that is called a "cheap shot".

 

[JandD Mom]

Everyone,

This thread has gotten exceedingly nasty for no reason. If you are angry, you should direct your anger at DVC. Call, email, fax whatever until you get a body who will listen and respond to the concerns and fix the problem.
It is uncalled for to be rude to people and accuse people of being a "shill" because they don't agree with you. Dis can be an incredibly informative place, and people like Beca have been incredible contributors to the information available here.

Again, direct your anger and comments to DVC! Be proactive! Get them on the phone and demand that DVC fix the problem!

 

[Chuck S]

Everyone,

This thread has gotten exceedingly nasty for no reason. If you are angry, you should direct your anger at DVC. Call, email, fax whatever until you get a body who will listen and respond to the concerns and fix the problem.

It is uncalled for to be rude to people and accuse people of being a "shill" because they don't agree with you. Dis can be an incredibly informative place, and people like Beca have been incredible contributors to the knowledge here.

Again, direct your anger and comments to DVC! Be proactive! Get them on the phone and demand that DVC fix the problem!

Again, I suggest an email or snail mail if you feel you simply MUST bring something to DVCs attention...though I think they are well aware of the situatin and can do an internet search like anyone else to find rental sites. Why tie up the MS phone lines we all pay for?

 

[jdg345]

Sammie, truly I do understand what you are saying. I know, and participated in many of those threads that you are referring to. I have certainly done my share of complaining about SSR. However, at no time did EVER blame the people who are buying into SSR. Are there some SSR owners who ADORE the resort so much that they cannot even consider staying anywhere else...absolutely. And, there are some SSR owners who would like to try all resorts, but are happy if they can only get SSR. And then, there are some resort owners who bought just to get into DVC, hoped to stay other places have have been complaining like CRAZY to the DVC guides who told them they could...only to find availability at other resorts very limited (as per my WDW source).

However...I am NOT blaming the members!! I honestly feel that any time someone comes to DVC to purchase a membership, and says to the guide, "I really don't like the resort you are selling now...could I buy at *****", they guide should have to say, "Yes, absolutely...let me get you on the list for some points." How many times have we seen people post that their guide told them they could only buy at SSR?...many, many times.

And, when you have a resort with 828 rooms....even just the percentage of people who bought "because it was what DVC was selling" becomes big enough to be the tipping point of a system that was already at max. capability.

This goes back to my point, that as new resorts are added, DVC will have to make room in the system for these new members. Let's just use VWL as an example....there are 137 rooms. If there are 40,000 DVC members...getting a room there could be difficult. If there are 200,000 members...getting a room there is going to be an amazing feat (unless all new DVC resorts are absolutely AMAZING...and VWL becomes the "dump" that no one wants to stay at). One way to open up availability at VWL to non-owners, is to limit the time and/or ways that owners can book their home resort. Limiting the number of transfers limits the number of points that you can get at your home resort, thus making availability greater for non-owners. Another example of this would be changing the home booking window from 11/7 to 11/9...thus giving two less months for owners to decide on their vacation plans, and opening rooms up for non-owners. I do feel that a reduction in the home resort window is inevitable if DVC continues to add more properties...of any kind, of any size, of any place.

However, I think this struggle is exacerbated by a large resort coming in, when small ones are already in existence. If all the resorts were large, it wouldn't be a problem. But, it does not seem fair....to anyone...to have a 137 rm resort and an 828 rm resort in the same system.

Someone posted earlier that SSR had the worst location. I have to disagree on that. Personally, I find the SSR location and the OKW location to be very similar, except that SSR has the added benefit of DTD. If points and room sizes were the same at the two resorts....I would definitely have to go with SSR over OKW. I think SSR has some great amenities for some people...DTD and the spa. Neither of which are my cup of tea, but I do understand how some people could really love them. However, I don't think those people constitute enough of the population to merit an 828 room resort. The Contemporary...maybe....a DTD location...I don't think so. But, that is just my opinion.

But, in any case....I do not, nor I have ever blamed the members for this. SSR members are just like anyone else...above all, they love the magic of Disney and want to be a part of it. They don't know the quirks of the system before they purchase, and even if they did...they're just like the rest of us....we can do nothing about it!! Remember, I had my contract for SSR in hand, and just couldn't seem to sign it, because it truly wasn't where I wanted to own. That's when I decided to look and see if there were any resales on the market...found this site, and all the resale boards. And, I was so glad I did. Honestly...I would've been one of the SSR members who just purchased to stay elsewhere. So, how can I blame them when I was almost one of them? I blame DVC. I blame my guide for not telling me I could buy resale....and, I blame all guides who do the same. And, I blame DVC for building resorts of such varying sizes (both large and small...I'm not pushing the blame on SSR for this one...maybe VWL and BCV should be expanded) that their system becomes a fight for ressies. But, I do not blame the SSR owners...we are all one in the same.



Beca

My guide did tell me I could buy from other resorts, but they did suggest I could buy anywhere and stay anywhere (which, for the most part, is correct). I would like to check out other resorts, if I can ... but ... I actually like SSR ... and if I'm "stuck" staying there ... so be it ...

I understand where the "own where you want to stay" thing comes from ... but I think it should be qualified ... "own where you want to stay if you're going to be mighty upset if you cant stay there".

I would like to stay at BCV for Stormalong Bay ... I would like to stay at BWV for the views and proximity to Epcot. But ... honestly, it would just be to try them out ... I don't like the "Hotel-ish" DVC's ... I prefer the style of OKW and SSR and being able to park outside my door. I guess that's the beauty of DVC, something for everyone.

 

[Lewisc]

I'm very confused. What is the difference between a DVC owner using his points to take a vacation or renting his points?

I now understand "morphing" but that's really a seperate issue. It sounds like DVC doesn't have the computer software to properly enforce the 11 month home resort rule.

The other issue is who gets peak weeks. Right now they go to owners who are willing to book exactly 11 months out. DVC could have set up a lottery system. DVC could have either sold specific weeks or at least base the date you can book on your use month. Guests who want to be able to book Christmas week might have had to pay extra or buy early. That makes DVC a a harder sale when the peak weeks, or months, are sold.

One of the reasons I didn't buy DVC is I normally book my WDW vacation 3-4 months out.

 

[jdg345]

If you look at the point totals tallyed by PrincessDadX2, you will see that out of 18,000 points owned, only 160 were SSR points. Doesnt look like this person needed to 'morph' points for BCV or BWV as they had plenty and you can make a whole heap of 5 day ressies at 60 points a pop with 2 and 3 thousand points.

And I agree with Sammie, there was plenty of blame placed on SSR owners for taking away ressies from the smaller resort owners. At 11 months NO LESS!

I am on these boards several times a day, even when at Disney, Im on these boards (I know its sad) and there was great instigation and lashing out at SSR and its members for taking away coveted ressies at the smaller DVC's.
SSR is not even fully operational nor are all its points in the system

What else has changed in the last 3 years, the resort prices and the promotion of renting DVC points (by guidebooks, budget sites, etc) as a way to save money on a WDW vacation.

Here you have a BCV Corporation, with over 2,000 BCV points and a loophole the size of a New Orleans levee break, but SSR is to blame for throwing the system out of balance?
And I know the truth on this one, but do not feel the need to expand on that.

And there was/is alot of shilling going on here that made SSR and its members the scapegoats to cover up for the loss of availability. And then when 1 can't get a ressie at the smaller resorts, because they are all rented out, they get that Buy Where You Want To Stay line, that is just a cover for all the shill renting going on.

And I do and have rented points to cruise on DCL so I am not anti renting or anti aging .

And just because others like to walk to a park, it is not a priority for all or even many. The majority of WDW resorts and rooms do not afford that
"luxury" and they are not shuttered up and empty. There is a thread right now on the resort board that is discussing the disadvantages of walking thru Epcot's IG for opening as opposed to arriving at the front gate at opening. IG entrants are arriving at Soarin after the front gate crowd has already entered the pavilion.

You know the old saying, look in your own backyard, before trying to clean up someone else's.

Where is that kneedeep smiley?

Well said!

I think there was definitely a lot of shilling going on ... as evidenced by this thread ... someone popped in and blamed SSR owners and then was trying to deflect towards the OP. In fact, I was waiting for the pitchforks and torches to be passed out.

It was all just a way to deflect from the real problem ... and since there were some so eager to jump on the SSR-bashing, it make it easy.

But, like you said, SSR points @ 11 months? How? I understand point morphing, but let's seriously consider that ... why would you buy SSR at $90+/point to morph when you can get OKW or VB or HH contracts for $70-75 point and morph those instead?

 

[jdg345]

and we all now know how truthfull she/he is

Exactly!

 

[diznyfanatic]

Points Resort
Points Resort
2,470 Beach Club Villas Total
6,562 Boardwalk Total
7,592 Old Key West Total
160 Saratoga Springs Total
200 Vero Beach Total
930 Wilderness Lodge Total
17,914 Grand Total

The only thing any of us actually confirmed from these posted numbers is what we already suspected, which is that multiple contracts appear to have been purchased within their circle for the apparent purpose of commercial renting.

What we don't know from those posted numbers, is how many cheap or distressed points were additionally picked up each year and into what accounts those points were deposited and possibly transferred from.

In my opinion only, this whole point morphing thing is a side issue and has probably been exploited to it's fullest extent by the real culprit which is commercial renting.

The fact remains, that the points illustrated above far exceed the number of points which can be reasonably used by their owners during their use year and appear to have been purchased for one reason only.

I don't care which of the above accounts are being used to morph from or to. I don't care which resorts are being used the most to book peak weeks.

The bottom line is that commercial renting hurts all of us because of it's ripple effect.

If I can't get into my BWV or VWL home resorts, I WILL book a reservation at either BCV or OKW or SSR, which means I might be taking a reservation away from someone who owns there.

If Disney will deal with these major commercial renters, that in itself will significantly reduce the point morphing issues, and if Disney would fix their computer system as well, that would plug the hole entirely.

 

[jdg345]

The only thing any of us actually confirmed from these posted numbers is what we already suspected, which is that multiple contracts appear to have been purchased within their circle for the apparent purpose of commercial renting.

What we don't know from those posted numbers, is how many cheap or distressed points were additionally picked up each year and into what accounts those points were deposited and possibly transferred from.

In my opinion only, this whole point morphing thing is a side issue and has probably been exploited to it's fullest extent by the real culprit which is commercial renting.

The fact remains, that the points illustrated above far exceed the number of points which can be reasonably used by their owners during their use year and appear to have been purchased for one reason only.

I don't care which of the above accounts are being used to morph from or to. I don't care which resorts are being used the most to book peak weeks.

The bottom line is that commercial renting hurts all of us because of it's ripple effect.

If I can't get into my BWV or VWL home resorts, I WILL book a reservation at either BCV or OKW or SSR, which means I might be taking a reservation away from someone who owns there.

If Disney will deal with these major commercial renters, that in itself will significantly reduce the point morphing issues, and if Disney would fix their computer system as well, that would plug the hole entirely.

Yup ... and I believe someone mentioned that 18,000 points is only like 90 members with an average of 200 points ... the difference would be that those 90 members all have different schedules and needs. In this case, it seems like all (or most of the) 18k are going to be used for peak periods. You can still book BCV/BWV/VWL at 7 months with no problem ... it just depends on when you want to go.