DVC Response About Ebay Commercial Sellers

[Sammie]

Ok I have been reading this whole thread and am stunned(nieve) no wonder we have trouble booking at our home BWV in Oct. But I don't know if this is allowed but what is point morphing? I don't get that.
Also if anyone wants to PM I will add my name to your complaint letter and maybe others will too, is that ok to add. Carol Edit another dumb question....I thought I had seen posts on here about limits in amount of points you could own like 5000????

If you want DVC to take your comments seriously you need to write them yourself and not be part of a mass mailing.

 

[JandD Mom]

Yes, as I understand it, that's is exactly what is happening. Once points are transferred IN to an account, they take on the Home resort status of the account they are being transferred IN to, in your case, Boardwalk.

And as I further understand it, these commercial renters have numerous contracts at most of the resorts, and use this fluke in the system to transfer points into the resorts carrying the higher demand during peak times, thereby circumventing the whole Home Resort booking window advantage.

In addition, they not only use their own points to play this transfer game, they also buy up cheap or distressed points for rent, and have THOSE transferred into their accounts to be able to book reservations at peak times to resell at a substantial profit.

Ok, now I am really getting annoyed. What happens If I transfer points that will expire in 2 months, but my UY doesn't expire until June 07. Can I book a reservation with those transferred points until 5/31/07?

 

[Y-ASK]

Ok, now I am really getting annoyed. What happens If I transfer points that will expire in 2 months, but my UY doesn't expire until June 07. Can I book a reservation with those transferred points until 5/31/07?

Edit for clarification:

If someone has points at say OKW that are going to expire in 2 months they can transfer them to your account with a June UY. You could then use them until June 07 or bank them and use them to book 11 months out at your resort thus extending the life of those points at a different resort which would normally be due to expire. Now if you have a small contract at BCV but the reservation you want will take considerable more points than you have you could have points transferred in then bank 100% and use them at the 11 month mark to get a really prime time reservation. You've beat the system because you only own a few points at BCV but now to DVC it looks like you have plenty of BCV points. And if you rent the reservation for profit then you've cheated the system twice to the detriment of all BCV owners who may have wanted to stay at BCV for those dates.

Y-ASK

 

[jdg345]

As best as I can tell W & L have a total of 20 contracts
Highest is 220pts / lowest is 120pts
5 at BWV / 2 at BCV / 13 at SSR
Total points 3055
Total cost $273,185.00
Maintenance fees (using a very general $4/pt) $1018/month or $12,220/year

Not sure why I just spent the better part of an hour adding all that up, except that I've spent most of the night reading this thread and am stunned. Maybe I shouldn't be. Gotta get rid of those rose-colored glasses, I guess.

At the very least I hope these revelations impact their rental business. I'd love for them to either lose a chunk of unbankable points or maybe have to pay their maintenance fees 'out of pocket' this month.

Works great for point-morphing it seems ... except now they cant morph 2xSSR per, they can only do 1.

 

[jdg345]

Ok, I just checked eBay at 11:25 pm ET and this is what I found:

ZERO smw ads
ZERO boardwalkmagic ads
TWO disdvcer ads (both for sold out weeks during F&W, mind you)
TWO additional ones from 2 separate people who do not appear to be commercial renters

I didn't do all of the possible search terms, I'm sure, but I was broad enough to catch most I would think....

You can also do an advanced search and show just by eBay-ID ... just in case they used different terms, etc ...

 

[diznyfanatic]

It isn't a NEW policy, the one transfer per use year rule is in most of our POS statements, and dates back to 1991.

Thank you for the clarification. I guess I was confused as I thought it had somehow changed and that people use to be able to have unlimited transfers as long as it was only in one direction.

 

[Y-ASK]

Works great for point-morphing it seems ... except now they cant morph 2xSSR per, they can only do 1.

It all depends on how the contracts were puchased (I.E. Who the listed owner is). You cannot transfer points to yourself. For example, if you own 400 Pts. at say OKW and you purchase 50 Pts. at HH using the same owner name listed on the OKW contract you cannot transfer points from one account to another for the same reasons that they are currently cracking down and enforcing the transfer policy. So if you had different names on the contracts like (Adams Kids Trust) you could transfer points from OKW to HH, bank, and then get a reservation for more days at HH at the 11 month window.

So if you think about it Arlene must have had some system setup. She was probably transferring and banking and really working the system for profit. I doubt she had very many reservations at OKW or SSR but I bet you they had more reservations at BCV and BWV than points they owned there.

Y-ASK

 

[jdg345]

Ok I have been reading this whole thread and am stunned(nieve) no wonder we have trouble booking at our home BWV in Oct. But I don't know if this is allowed but what is point morphing? I don't get that.
Also if anyone wants to PM I will add my name to your complaint letter and maybe others will too, is that ok to add. Carol Edit another dumb question....I thought I had seen posts on here about limits in amount of points you could own like 5000????

Point morphing, as I understand it, allows someone with a small BCV/BWV contract to 'morph' their other points (SSR, OKW) into BCV/BWV points so they can be used at 11 months. For example, let's say you have 1000 OKW points and you buy 1000 more SSR points. You then, via resale or something, buy 2 small contracts ... 1 at BCV and 1 at BWV for 50 points each.

Now, when you get your SSR points, you transfer them into the BCV account. When you get your OKW points, you transfer them into your BWV account. Since these points are transferred, they 'become', or 'morph' to BCV/BWV points respectively, so you now have 1050 BCV points @ 11 months and 1050 BWV points @ 11 months. And you got them by buying cheap SSR (at the beginning) or really cheap OKW points.

In fact, they could even be using VB or HH cheap-o points, etc.

As for the 5k limit, that's easy to get around ... you just put the other contracts in the names of relatives ... I think it's a 5k limit per SS#.

 

[JandD Mom]

Edit for clarification:

If someone has points at say OKW that are going to expire in 2 months they can transfer them to your account with a June UY. You could then use them until June 07 or bank them and use them to book 11 months out at your resort thus extending the life of those points at a different resort which would normally be due to expire. Now if you have a small contract at BCV but the reservation you want will take considerable more points than you have you could have points transferred in then bank 100% and use them at the 11 month mark to get a really prime time reservation. You've beat the system because you only own a few points at BCV but now to DVC it looks like you have plenty of BCV points. And if you rent the reservation for profit then you've cheated the system twice to the detriment of all BCV owners who may have wanted to stay at BCV for those dates.

Y-ASK

Now I know why all these people are buying up little contracts all over the place.

SO I could have just bought 50 points at BW, if I wanted to stay there, and then buy the cheapest add-ons I could get away with (say 300 points at DVCX), and just keep transferring to my BW points?

DVC should have fixed this a long time ago.

It certainly makes buying a small add on at the alleged Contemporary DVC attractive, doesn't it?

 

[Sammie]

It all depends on how the contracts were puchased (I.E. Who the listed owner is). You cannot transfer points to yourself. For example, if you own 400 Pts. at say OKW and you purchase 50 Pts. at HH using the same owner name listed on the OKW contract you cannot transfer points from one account to another for the same reasons that they are currently cracking down and enforcing the transfer policy. You could transfer points from OKW to HH, bank, and then get a reservation for more days at HH at the 11 month window.

So if you think about it Arlene must have had some system setup. She was probably transferring and banking and really working the system for profit. I doubt her or Mr. Smith or Ms. Borgia had very many reservations at OKW or SSR but I bet you they had more reservations at BCV and BWV than points they owned there.
Y-ASK

And just think how many times on these forums when Members complained about not being able to book their home resorts at prime times, they blamed SSR owners for doing it. I have to wonder how many of those trying to shift the blame were actually guilty of the same thing.

There was never any proof SSR members were guilty, but plenty of proof of prime times to rent by other members.

 

[JandD Mom]

Thanks everyone for this educational thread. I had no idea how poorly DVC was tracking points.

But I am finding that this education ranks up there with knowing how laws and sausages are made ...

 

[jdg345]

And just think how many times on these forums when Members complained about not being able to book their home resorts at prime times, they blamed SSR owners for doing it. I have to wonder how many of those trying to shift the blame were actually guilty of the same thing.

There was never any proof SSR members were guilty, but plenty of proof of prime times to rent by other members.

Actually, I believe MushPurple said earlier in this thread that the problem was definitely SSR and not renters ....

IMO, SSR contributed because it added more points to be morphed ... but that contribution is minimal as most will want to buy distressed points to transfer in (way cheaper than $90+ a point). Or, buy OKW or VH/HH points to morph. Pick up the contracts for 70-75$/point and make back the money with just a few rentals ...

 

[Beca]

And just think how many times on these forums when Members complained about not being able to book their home resorts at prime times, they blamed SSR owners for doing it. I have to wonder how many of those trying to shift the blame were actually guilty of the same thing.

There was never any proof SSR members were guilty, but plenty of proof of prime times to rent by other members.

I think SSR was the tipping point in the equation. If all resorts were connected to a park, and all of an equal size....there would be an equilibrium in the system. FWIW, I think if DVC opens Cont and AKL, ressies will open up a bit.

Also...I don't think anyone every "blamed" SSR owners. It's DVC who is responsible for this...not individual members.

 

[Beca]

Personally, I think the reason that its now is that Disney is doing 3 year projections and anticipating a period of low travel. Gas prices are up which is having an impact on food prices and a few other prices. I don't think Disney really cares when hotel occupancy is high, but if they are anticipating a recession, then DVC rentals become competition (and using food credits inappropriately on the dining plan becomes lost income). I'm seeing a number of small policy changes that I think are part of an effort to ensure revenue generation and keep expenses lower during a down economy.

(The company I work for just had a record year, and just went into cost cutting mode because we forsee a change in the economy next year.)

Disney, as a travel and entertainment company, tends to get hit pretty hard in a recession.

Yep....I totally agree!!

 

[Y-ASK]

Actually, I believe MushPurple said earlier in this thread that the problem was definitely SSR and not renters ....

Not sure if you've read the entire thread but MushPurple turned out to be one of the commercial renters (my Arlene reference) so don't believe anything she writes. She did a shill job here on this site and there's no telling what she did with her E-Bay auctions.

Y-ASK

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

If DVC really wants to stop the point morphing, why don't they limit transfers only to points from the same home resort (i.e. BCV to BCV, SSR to SSR, etc.) ?

That way multiple transfers/year would be OK. The current solution (one tranfer/year) does not solve availability issues caused by point morphing.

 

[Chuck S]

If DVC really wants to stop the point morphing, why don't they limit transfers only to points from the same home resort (i.e. BCV to BCV, SSR to SSR, etc.) ?

That way multiple transfers/year would be OK. The current solution (one tranfer/year) does not solve availability issues caused by point morphing.

Probably because the "once per year" rule was on the books from 1991, inter-resort transfers were not addressed and would be a truly "new rule".

 

[Sammie]

Also...I don't think anyone every "blamed" SSR owners. It's DVC who is responsible for this...not individual members.

There was plenty of blame put on the SSR members. If search was not so messed up right now I would find the direct comments. Several people made statements that SSR owners bought in, due to the promotions and extra years and had no intention of staying at SSR but were going to book up weeks at BCV and BW.

There were comments made to threads about booking difficulties that SSR members were to blame due to the fact they were buying at SSR and booking elsewhere.

So yes they did blame the members. I personally think many of the comments, giving SSR a hard time for many reasons was a diversion for some of these Commercial Renters.

 

[LisaS]

If DVC really wants to stop the point morphing, why don't they limit transfers only to points from the same home resort (i.e. BCV to BCV, SSR to SSR, etc.) ?

That way multiple transfers/year would be OK. The current solution (one tranfer/year) does not solve availability issues caused by point morphing.

This was mentioned either earlier in this thread or in another thread... getting hard to keep track! I initially thought it was a good idea. But one problem with it is what happens when an owner of a smaller resort needs to transfer in points to book at the 7-month window at another resort. Say a BCV owner wants to book a GV at OKW at 7 months out and an SSR owner wants to do the same and they both need to transfer in additional points to pay for that GV. There are far fewer BCV points in existence than there are SSR points, so the BCV owner will have a harder time finding the points and will probably have to pay a lot more for them.

 

[jdg345]

Not sure if you've read the entire thread but MushPurple turned out to be one of the commercial renters (my Arlene reference) so don't believe anything she writes. She did a shill job here on this site and there's no telling what she did with her E-Bay auctions.

Y-ASK

Sure did! In fact, I think the 'm' in smw stands for 'mush'