DVC Response About Ebay Commercial Sellers

[Chuck S]

Perhaps we all need to call MS. What should we all say?

Perhaps an email where you are ask it to be forwarded to member satisfaction in the subject line would be better. Why tie up the MS phone lines at our own expense?

 

[Oreo Cookie]

Perhaps we all need to call MS. What should we all say?

I'm not going to call MS, but I will write a letter. I don't want to tie up the 800 line on this issue. I believe it is better to either email or write a letter.

 

[Muushka]

I just wonder about this thread...

I have been complaining (literally) for years about this situation of people who scoop up desirable, difficult to book, vacation times and then turn around and sell them (on these boards no less!!!). And every time someone (no names) would tell me that everyone has the right to book at the 11 month window, if you snooze you lose mentality. Only a handful of posters would voice this same sentiment as me and would rarely back me up.

I remember complaining to the board webmaster about the situation, and was told "I guess it's in the eye of the beholder since I can't find anything wrong
with the rentals offered. "

Now everyone seems to be so excited about this. Is it the new found knowledge of point morphing that has people up in arms?

I am glad that things will (hopefully) change.

 

[Chuck S]

I don't think it is "new found knowledge", I think more folks were having a hard time booking their home resort during the priority window as F&W and the Christmas activities seemed to have grown in popularity over the last few years. There is still nothing concrete to prevent someone who has a lot of their pownpopints from booking at the 11 month window and renting that ressie later. I think, though, that MS is starting to look for a large overall pattern of booking multiple ressies during a high demand period and then changing the name on the ressie for a rental.

 

[PrincessDadx2]

Who says DVC isn't an investment

Just this one group of "non-commercial" sellers exposed has almost 18,000 points according to the deed records and this does not include family members and maiden names that are harder to trace:

Points Resort
2,470 Beach Club Villas Total
6,562 Boardwalk Total
7,592 Old Key West Total
160 Saratoga Springs Total
200 Vero Beach Total
930 Wilderness Lodge Total
17,914 Grand Total

They started buying and renting on Ebay in 2001. I am sure they have a good profit as their points average in the 70's.

I am sure that they are not the only ones. Several others can be seen on Ebay and elsewhere.

Interesting to see how all this works out.

 

[minnie61650]

Who says DVC isn't an investment

Just this one group of "non-commercial" sellers exposed has almost 18,000 points according to the deed records and this does not include family members and maiden names that are harder to trace:

Points Resort
2,470 Beach Club Villas Total
6,562 Boardwalk Total
7,592 Old Key West Total
160 Saratoga Springs Total
200 Vero Beach Total
930 Wilderness Lodge Total
17,914 Grand Total

They started buying and renting on Ebay in 2001. I am sure they have a good profit as their points average in the 70's.

I am sure that they are not the only ones. Several others can be seen on Ebay and elsewhere.

Interesting to see how all this works out.

I wonder if all the "non commercial" sellers pay income taxes on their "non business"? Somehow I doubt it.

Great research !

I was going to try to figure it out but gave up
because the print on the deeds was so small.

Thanks for sharing the info.

Hopefully these "non commercial" sellers will have to give up their "non business".

 

[granmanh603]

I just wonder about this thread...

I have been complaining (literally) for years about this situation of people who scoop up desirable, difficult to book, vacation times and then turn around and sell them (on these boards no less!!!). And every time someone (no names) would tell me that everyone has the right to book at the 11 month window, if you snooze you lose mentality. Only a handful of posters would voice this same sentiment as me and would rarely back me up.

I remember complaining to the board webmaster about the situation, and was told "I guess it's in the eye of the beholder since I can't find anything wrong
with the rentals offered. "

Now everyone seems to be so excited about this. Is it the new found knowledge of point morphing that has people up in arms?

I am glad that things will (hopefully) change.

Ok I have been reading this whole thread and am stunned(nieve) no wonder we have trouble booking at our home BWV in Oct. But I don't know if this is allowed but what is point morphing? I don't get that.
Also if anyone wants to PM I will add my name to your complaint letter and maybe others will too, is that ok to add. Carol Edit another dumb question....I thought I had seen posts on here about limits in amount of points you could own like 5000????

 

[Y-ASK]

I have been complaining (literally) for years about this situation of people who scoop up desirable, difficult to book, vacation times and then turn around and sell them (on these boards no less!!!). And every time someone (no names) would tell me that everyone has the right to book at the 11 month window, if you snooze you lose mentality. Only a handful of posters would voice this same sentiment as me and would rarely back me up.

Well I can tell you that I've had a change of heart since I 1st started renting points. I didn't have any problems with any of this stuff, but over time, as I've gotten to know the system, I can see that there is a problem with being able to get a reservation at the 5 or 6 month time frame at certain resorts. I tried it myself by getting two reservations at BCV last year with the sole intent of renting (which I eventually cancelled by the way). The whole idea of the transfer problem I thought last year was a non-issue. I guess others thought the same way and decided to take advantage of the holes in the system. I stopped early last summer and have really changed my mine about the entire issue. It's just not fair to the BCV folks since it appears that it's their resort that keeps getting booked way early or with moorphed points.

Y-ASK

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

There are point limits, but the max issue can easily be skirted by putting the contract in different names: 5k in DH's name, 5k in DW's name, 5k in both names, 5k in business name, etc. We've just seen a great example of that with this particular family in question.

 

[diznyfanatic]

Ok I have been reading this whole thread and am stunned(nieve) no wonder we have trouble booking at our home BWV in Oct. But I don't know if this is allowed but what is point morphing? I don't get that.
Also if anyone wants to PM I will add my name to your complaint letter and maybe others will too, is that ok to add. Carol Edit another dumb question....I thought I had seen posts on here about limits in amount of points you could own like 5000????

Point "morphing" occurs when points from another resort are transferred into an account, and because of a fluke in Disney's DVC computer system, the points take on the home resort of the account they are being transferred into rather than retain the original home resort from where they came from. This allows the points to be eligible for the 11 month home resort booking window when they shouldn't be allowed to.

 

[diznyfanatic]

Who says DVC isn't an investment

Just this one group of "non-commercial" sellers exposed has almost 18,000 points according to the deed records and this does not include family members and maiden names that are harder to trace:

Points Resort
2,470 Beach Club Villas Total
6,562 Boardwalk Total
7,592 Old Key West Total
160 Saratoga Springs Total
200 Vero Beach Total
930 Wilderness Lodge Total
17,914 Grand Total

They started buying and renting on Ebay in 2001. I am sure they have a good profit as their points average in the 70's.

I am sure that they are not the only ones. Several others can be seen on Ebay and elsewhere.

Interesting to see how all this works out.

When you say "one group", is that just the one family that has been the primary focus of discussion in this thread or are these totals from the handlful of commercial renters discussed in this thread?

Either way I'm stunned. And either way, we probably only know about a very small percentage from this thread so if this is as wide spread as it appears, just think how many points are involved and prime weeks scooped up the minute the 11 month window opens.

I guess I can pretty much give up on ever getting our BWV home during F&W and our VWL home during the last week in December, which is WHY we purchased where we did.

 

[Muushka]

Y-ASK, great change of heart! I wish everyone felt like you do!

I can remember years ago (at least 3, probably more) seeing people trying to book their home resort at 9 months (or more) and not being able to. Then I would (foolishly I might add ) go to the rent-trade board and see the exact dates that these poor members needed for rent! This is not a new problem, but as others have said, it is certainly more pronounced now.

We are able to book our home resort right at 11 months because we do not have child constraints and we always go the same time of year. But it just never seemed fair that people without this luxury would miss out on their home resort because of another member's greed.

The rent-trade board has improved in the past few months and I feel like I can visit it again without getting mad .

 

[Y-ASK]

Found another one:

Edit: Name removed due to change of heart AKA "DISDVCER" on E-Bay

Looks like they own about 25-30 contracts between the two of them. Saw one at BCV for 460 pts. Don't really have time to look at all of them but if someone wants to post the number feel free.

Y-ASK

 

[granmanh603]

Thanks for the answers....guess I'm just dumb...just today been trying to book the end of our March trip to BWV with my SSR points at the 7 month window. Guess I just follow rules too well !!!!!! been flamed before on the refillable mug "debates" for being the morality police!!!!!

 

[JandD Mom]

Point "morphing" occurs when points from another resort are transferred into an account, and because of a fluke in Disney's DVC computer system, the points take on the home resort of the account they are being transferred into rather than retain the original home resort from where they came from. This allows the points to be eligible for the 11 month home resort booking window when they shouldn't be allowed to.

I just want to make sure I understand the concept of "morphing." This is a hypothetical situation only as I have never transferred points. I own a modest contract at BW. I need 142 points to get a standard view 1 br at BW for a given week. I only have 42 left this year. I then advertize that I need a transfer of points. Someone with the same use year as me (for simplicity) offers to transfer to me 100 Hilton Head points.

At the 11th month window I can then use all of the points (the HH points together with my BW points) to make a BW reservation? That means someone with BW points can't make their reservation at that time.

IF this is true, this is not right, and DVC is definately wrong for allowing this to go on. When I bought 1 year ago it was explained to me that you could only use the BW points to book BW at 11 month. If DVC is not following this then THEY are to blame for many of us not being able to get our weeks.

While I am as angry at the exploiters as everyone here, without them the problem may not have come to light. Now maybe DVC will fix its problem and make sure only home resort points get booked at 11 months. I know it will certainly help DVC's sales if people think they can actually get what they are paying for.

 

[granmanh603]

I just want to make sure I understand the concept of "morphing." This is a hypothetical situation only as I have never transferred points. I own a modest contract at BW. I need 142 points to get a standard view 1 br at BW for a given week. I only have 42 left this year. I then advertize that I need a transfer of points. Someone with the same use year as me (for simplicity) offers to transfer to me 100 Hilton Head points.

At the 11th month window I can then use all of the points (the HH points together with my BW points) to make a BW reservation? That means someone with BW points can't make their reservation at that time.

IF this is true, this is not right, and DVC is definately wrong for allowing this to go on. When I bought 1 year ago it was explained to me that you could only use the BW points to book BW at 11 month. If DVC is not following this then THEY are to blame for many of us not being able to get our weeks.

While I am as angry at the exploiters as everyone here, without them the problem may not have come to light. Now maybe DVC will fix its problem and make sure only home resort points get booked at 11 months. I know it will certainly help DVC's sales if people think they can actually get what they are paying for.

I totally agree with you. They Disney has created this problem and should easily be able to fix that. You should not be able to transfer points into anything but after the 7 month window, which is what I thought was the way it was supposed to work, that was why I asked the question about morphing because I couldn't understand how they were transfering points to use at the 11 month window.

 

[diznyfanatic]

I just want to make sure I understand the concept of "morphing." This is a hypothetical situation only as I have never transferred points. I own a modest contract at BW. I need 142 points to get a standard view 1 br at BW for a given week. I only have 42 left this year. I then advertize that I need a transfer of points. Someone with the same use year as me (for simplicity) offers to transfer to me 100 Hilton Head points.

At the 11th month window I can then use all of the points (the HH points together with my BW points) to make a BW reservation? That means someone with BW points can't make their reservation at that time.

Yes, as I understand it, that's is exactly what is happening. Once points are transferred IN to an account, they take on the Home resort status of the account they are being transferred IN to, in your case, Boardwalk.

And as I further understand it, these commercial renters have numerous contracts at most of the resorts, and use this fluke in the system to transfer points into the resorts carrying the higher demand during peak times, thereby circumventing the whole Home Resort booking window advantage.

In addition, they not only use their own points to play this transfer game, they also buy up cheap or distressed points for rent, and have THOSE transferred into their accounts to be able to book reservations at peak times to resell at a substantial profit.

 

[smjj]

Just started reading this thread and the more I read the more redfaced I got. So this is why we are having problems getting the times we want. I had no idea. Who and how do I complained to so that action is taken on this blatant rule infraction that is chewing up all the best times and then renting them out from under us owners?????..smjj

 

[diznyfanatic]

Also from what I can gather from reading this board, instead of dealing with the booking issues and problems caused by the commercial renters and dealing with those people directly, and correct the fluke in their own system which allows it, Disney is now enforcing a new transfer policy that now restricts the number of transfers you can perfom in a year to one.

That means that if you and I only need a few points a couple of times a year for our own trips, we won't be able to transfer points into our accounts each time. We will only be allowed to transfer once, and then must rent more points to cover the shortfall or figure something else out.

Edited to add: I think changing the transfer policy is a step in the right direction to curb this activity. I just think most of the members who do play by the rules and only need a few points here and there are getting caught in the net too.

 

[Chuck S]

Also from what I can gather from reading this board, instead of dealing with the booking issues and problems caused by the commercial renters and dealing with those people directly, and correct the fluke in their own system which allows it, Disney is now enforcing a new transfer policy that now restricts the number of transfers you can perfom in a year to one.

That means that if you and I only need a few points a couple of times a year for our own trips, we won't be able to transfer points into our accounts each time. We will only be allowed to transfer once, and then must rent more points to cover the shortfall or figure something else out.

Edited to add: I think changing the transfer policy is a step in the right direction to curb this activity. I just think most of the members who do play by the rules and only need a few points here and there are getting caught in the net too.

It isn't a NEW policy, the one transfer per use year rule is in most of our POS statements, and dates back to 1991.